This was true in 1969 as well as today!

[Value Buy]

Just want to share a video for some of the young wipper snappers here, who may not have ever seen this pledge of Allegiance and what the words meant for us young'un's back then.
This is as true today as it was back in the 60's. Maybe more so today.

I posted in politics because it applies to all of us as well as our politicians in office today.

[billisonboard]

PLEDGE: Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity.

True today?

[Great]

Nice! Thank you for posting the video

[Tennesseer]

Samuel Johnson was right:

"[False]Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

More so today than ever before under our current president and his administration.

[djAdvocate]

I loathe the pledge.  socialist dreck.  I pledge allegiance to no man, nation, or God.

oh, in case you have never seen it, this is the original salute.  it was changed after WW2, for reasons that should be clear to anyone:

[Value Buy]

So.....some posters actually truly think about the pledge and what it means, and it will never make us a better human being.......
Of course some do not get this "description" out of the pledge, that Skelton repeated, but everyone should be able to take many good highlights from it and come out for the better from it.
If you look at this board, and posting style from 2000, to 2018 (the old board and this one) and see the meaness that has been spewed by both sides of the political spectrum, and not think about what the pledge means........and maybe think we can be better people because we use it to become a better human, I guess we are all just wasting time here.
I posted this, because, so many meetings I attend seem to start with this pledge, and we, the audience just go through the motion of repeating it, especially as we get older. I think it is time to consider the meaning and think about our personal actions that we can follow to improve our lot in life.

[dondub]

 Get rid of the added in 'Under God' and then we'll talk.

 And it was written by a socialist.

 As far as the liberty and justice for all...in 1969 young men were losing their liberty to the Vietnam draft. Death and destruction ensued as ordered by that nation under God.

 Justice? Tell that to the marchers in Selma and elsewhere, the unjustly imprisoned as we now top the world per capita.

 Oh yeah, baby, give me some of that pledge.

[Deleted]

I have allegiance to most of my family and a lot of friends but for the country I was born in I hold allegiance as far as I agree with its policies.

When it comes down to it, if my country tried to draft me and make me fight against someone I consider a friend in another country, I would not do it. I hold individual alliances above country alliances.

I always thought it was weird to indoctrinate kids to a pledge to country in elementary school, I always thought we should be better than that and if the country is worthy of it, a pledge is not required nor asked for.

[phil5185]

Oh yeah, baby, give me some of that pledge.

And yet you still live here?

[tallguy]

If you want the Pledge to mean anything, it has to start at the top of our government.  I doubt anybody in this administration puts the country first over themselves or their party.  Our country will never be worthy of respect when our leaders are not worthy of respect.  You think we have a problem?  Start there to fix it.

[dondub]

And yet you still live here?

Of course I do and why wouldn't/shouldn't I. Did you miss the elucidation? And are you one of those 'love it or leave it' types? That was such a crock full of sheep.

[tallguy]

Jan 24, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

And yet you still live here?

Of course I do and why wouldn't/shouldn't I. Did you miss the elucidation? And are you one of those 'love it or leave it' types? That was such a crock full of sheep.

Correct.  There is no "love of country" involved in that.  True love of country involves caring enough to try and make it better.  To make it beholden to its ideals.  To make it what it should be.  It is far more patriotic to argue with your leaders when they are in opposition to those ideals than to blindly accept what they say. 

[dondub]

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2019 12:44:30 GMT -5 @aj said:

...

I always thought it was weird to indoctrinate kids to a pledge to country in elementary school, I always thought we should be better than that and if the country is worthy of it, a pledge is not required nor asked for.

The modern nation-state is such an interesting artifical human construct. It makes sense to me that work is done to indoctrinate human beings into supporting it before they are able to rationally process.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 24, 2019 12:08:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

So.....some posters actually truly think about the pledge and what it means, and it will never make us a better human being.......

or a worse one.

if you are claiming the pledge would change a person's fundamental nature, I think that is crazy talk.

[Tiny]

I always found the pledge of allegiance to be rather weird. That whole "liberty and justice for all" thing... not so much. As I am female I was aware that I was a second class citizen even in grade school. (this second class thing might have been because I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic GS - and there's no way women are equal to men in Catholicism. And it seemed the non-religious parts of life operated the same way - women were NOT equal to men. )

I never had belief in god so the under God part just added to the "this is nonsense" that was the pledge.

It was fun to try to say the pledge in one breathe though  or to just lip sync it or to make up words or to mumble it.   

[djAdvocate]

I hated every recitation of it. every one. I have not said it once since I ceased being REQUIRED to say it.

fuck obedience.  it is the antithesis of liberty.

[Tiny]

Am I the only one who finds it odd that the OP's clip is from a comedian?

[mmhmm]

I remember when "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance. I refused to say it. I was just a kid but, to me, you don't arbitrarily add something to a pledge that has served perfectly fine since Bellamy's revision of the original (by Balch during the Civil War) simply to satisfy a wish by some, not all, of the people for whom it speaks. Haven't had the occasion to say it for many, many years; however, I'd still stick to the pre-1954 version.

[hurley1980]

Jan 24, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

And yet you still live here?

Of course I do and why wouldn't/shouldn't I. Did you miss the elucidation? And are you one of those 'love it or leave it' types? That was such a crock full of sheep.

One of my favorite hypocrisies' of the GOP. To Americans:  "If you don't like it here, then leave!"

But to refugees (who are actually leaving): "Instead of leaving, why don't they work to make their own countries better!?!"

So which is it?  Leave, or stay and make change?

[dondub]

I wish they'd leave so we could make some changes!

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2019 16:13:50 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Jan 24, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

And yet you still live here?

Of course I do and why wouldn't/shouldn't I. Did you miss the elucidation? And are you one of those 'love it or leave it' types? That was such a crock full of sheep.

One of my favorite hypocrisies' of the GOP. To Americans:  "If you don't like it here, then leave!"

But to refugees (who are actually leaving): "Instead of leaving, why don't they work to make their own countries better!?!"

So which is it?  Leave, or stay and make change?

Our country is perfect so making changes make it worse. Their countries are shitholes so making changes make them better.

[billisonboard]

Jan 24, 2019 15:49:48 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that the OP's clip is from a comedian?

It is frequently comedians who are great at social commentary, e.g. Lenny Bruce and George Carlin.

[Tennesseer]

I can remember reciting it at least in grammar school in the 1950s and it meant absolutely nothing to me.  Just word salad said every morning.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 24, 2019 12:08:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

So.....some posters actually truly think about the pledge and what it means, and it will never make us a better human being.......
Of course some do not get this "description" out of the pledge, that Skelton repeated, but everyone should be able to take many good highlights from it and come out for the better from it.
If you look at this board, and posting style from 2000, to 2018 (the old board and this one) and see the meaness that has been spewed by both sides of the political spectrum, and not think about what the pledge means........and maybe think we can be better people because we use it to become a better human, I guess we are all just wasting time here.
I posted this, because, so many meetings I attend seem to start with this pledge, and we, the audience just go through the motion of repeating it, especially as we get older. I think it is time to consider the meaning and think about our personal actions that we can follow to improve our lot in life.

Some people need a pledge to become better human beings.
....and some don't.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 24, 2019 15:48:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I hated every recitation of it. every one. I have not said it once since I ceased being REQUIRED to say it.

fuck obedience.  it is the antithesis of liberty.

Same I haven't said it since a JW in my 5th grade class explained why she refused to say it.  She said it's asking them to put the US above even God and for JW there is no higher power than God.  I thought a lot about it and she was right.    We are supposed to have freedom of religion here, we are not supposed to have state mandated religion.

It is yet another means of separating "us" vs "them".

[mroped]

As you all know, I grew up in communism, well more like dictatorship but no matter.
Except for the official gatherings of the “pioneers”( equivalent of boys/girls scouts) we never said the Pledge of Allegiance, ofcourse the Romanian one. We did however sing the first verse of the National Anthem every morning or almost depending on the teacher that was starting the day.
When I was drafted, just after four months of intensive training came a day when we as soldiers had to pledge our allegiance. As weird as it sounds now, I realize that we pledged our allegiance to the Constitution of the country(protecting the rule of law), the republic(as a form of governing), to the people/nation and the lands that they inhabit as a people.
Mind you, communists were big on symbols yet the flag wasn’t mentioned. God wasn’t mentioned also because a separation of church and state was absolute. Contrary to all beliefs neither were the glorious leaders mentioned.
It came as a surprise to me that the US Pledge of Allegiance includes the words “God” and “flag”.
You mean to tell me that the most powerful nation on this earth relies on God? And a piece of cloth?
Who’s God? Is that cloth with Stars and Stripes gonna keep us together as a nation?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 25, 2019 10:11:26 GMT -5 mroped said:

As you all know, I grew up in communism, well more like dictatorship but no matter.
Except for the official gatherings of the “pioneers”( equivalent of boys/girls scouts) we never said the Pledge of Allegiance, ofcourse the Romanian one. We did however sing the first verse of the National Anthem every morning or almost depending on the teacher that was starting the day.
When I was drafted, just after four months of intensive training came a day when we as soldiers had to pledge our allegiance. As weird as it sounds now, I realize that we pledged our allegiance to the Constitution of the country(protecting the rule of law), the republic(as a form of governing), to the people/nation and the lands that they inhabit as a people.
Mind you, communists were big on symbols yet the flag wasn’t mentioned. God wasn’t mentioned also because a separation of church and state was absolute. Contrary to all beliefs neither were the glorious leaders mentioned.
It came as a surprise to me that the US Pledge of Allegiance includes the words “God” and “flag”.
You mean to tell me that the most powerful nation on this earth relies on God? And a piece of cloth?
Who’s God? Is that cloth with Stars and Stripes gonna keep us together as a nation?

MrO: were you still living in Romania when Nicolae Ceaușescu and his wife met their fate?

[mroped]

Yes, I served in 1986-88 and they were taken out in December 1989. Was a very summary trial and execution. Those that did it had to act fast because the two(Ceausescu and his wife) had too much dirt on anyone. The ones that took over were probably more corrupted then the dictators. It showed in the first 5-6 years after. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jan 24, 2019 11:50:14 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

I loathe the pledge.  socialist dreck.  I pledge allegiance to no man, nation, or God.

oh, in case you have never seen it, this is the original salute.  it was changed after WW2, for reasons that should be clear to anyone:

So....still ok pledging the flag, ya?