Should we start taxing Church and Religions?

[ty]

I know for some this is a very touchy topic to be discussing, but when it comes down to the people vs church and Religions and the people having to pay taxes and they don't. Is this really fair to the people? I say NO for numerous reasons. First, Church and Religions is now a multibillion dollar industry and all tax exempt. This is not fair, an I would realy like to find out where all these billions are going to for these so-called nonprofit businesses like Church and Religions. Then there is the other thing that bugs the snot outta me. If I am part of a Church and Religion organization, they don't have to pay taxes, then why do I have to pay taxes if I am part of the same group that isn't paying any taxes. It doesn't sound fair to me.
So I feel that we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

[handyman2]

In my opinion NO; Unless they own a for profit business then that business should be taxed excluding healthcare and hospital facilities. The Baptists, Catholics, Seventh-day Adventists, Methodists etc. all have hospitals that do a lot of charitable good. They should be treated just like any other non-profit hospital.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Really you are referring to all charitable organizations like the Red Cross, United Way, etc., etc.....

[thyme4change]

I'm cool taxing a church. At least remove their property tax reductions - they should have to pay for the land they occupy.

I would like to see churches have to create a off-sight mission arm that reaches out to non-members and helps them. That portion of their expenses and work would need a seperate financial statement and could be tax exempt. But, to make their religious services and their giant building exempt doesn't work for me. I would like all the theaters to be exempt so the symphony would cost less, or all the bars to be tax exempt, so there would be no cover charge.

Really, going to services is just a social experience with possibly some enjoyment of the "show." If you want to go and listen to some guy talk and meet up with all your friends, that is fine - but that place shouldn't get a tax break for it.

[safeharbor37]

we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

Refer to 1st Amendment, US constitution. It would be blatantly in violation to tax Religions. Churches on the other hand can be taxed ~ already. It's just up to the appropriate governmental entity to enact the taxes [The tax would be unconstitutional if it exceeded the tax for similar enterprises or "inhibited the free exercise" of religion.]
I too think that actual businesses run by churches should be taxed just like any other business, just as preacher's salaries are taxable like any other salary. I do believe that some enterprises like "thrift shops" and Bingo should be exempted though. It's actually up to the local taxing authority.

[workpublic]

and the catholic church is crying poverty and closing schools and churches in westchester. what do they do with all of the money?

isn't the catholic church the largest holder of gold in the world?

"The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp

[workpublic]

This message has been deleted.

[EVT1]

Apr 1, 2011 14:52:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I'm cool taxing a church. At least remove their property tax reductions - they should have to pay for the land they occupy.

That's a great idea- I never understood why they get a break- especially these mega-churches sitting on prime real estate. I don't get why they get free use of police traffic cops either-if they can afford a behemoth building with all the trimmings, they can pay some tax on it.

[floridayankee]

Apr 1, 2011 14:30:42 GMT -5 @ty said:

So I feel that we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

Do you also want churches to be able to endorse government candidates and get more involved in Government? Taxing without allowing a voice equal to other corporate / business entities would be taxation without representation.

[workpublic]

yet they let the irish starve during the famine

[ty]

Apr 1, 2011 15:01:35 GMT -5 workpublic said:

yet they let the irish starve during the famine

Didn't the rest of the world sit back and watch Hitler kill the disabled and elderly, then the gay and lesbians, and then the Jews. Only until it got way out of hand was when people got oinvolved and did something about Hitler and his regeme, but they didn't have any problems when he killed the disabled and the eldery deemed a burden to their society, and after those people, he then he went after the gays and lesbians.

I strongly believe that Church and Religions are more interested in raking in the cash rather than helping people they claim they are helping. Charlatans, false-profits, and a business growing bigger and bigger tax free and pocketing the money for their own selfish gains.

Personally, I feel we should ban all Church and Religion in the USA.
I think they have robbed the people enough by selling this intangible god of theirs and offering them false hopes of a better life in some made up heaven only after you die.

For me this is wrong and criminal.

[bobbysgirl]

How about the televised churches only? that's where the money lays.

[EVT1]

Apr 1, 2011 15:01:18 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Do you also want churches to be able to endorse government candidates and get more involved in Government? Taxing without allowing a voice equal to other corporate / business entities would be taxation without representation.

They already pretty much do- one of our local churches here has conservative radio hosts holding rallies on a regular basis. Tax time.

[thyme4change]

I remember our old church making a stand on a few issues. Funny part was, the guy didn't do his homework and said some things that didn't make any sense. Either that, or he was dumbing it down for the congregation - now that I think about it - that is possible. There were a lot of smart people at that church, but I suspect that very few really understood the intricacies of the propositions the preacher was speaking of.

[safeharbor37]

The US Constitution protects the practice of Religion in the US. It does not place any restriction on Religion. Those too stupid to understand this are not worth the bother to refute.

[ed1066]

Personally, I feel we should ban all Church and Religion in the USA.

You have strong support in the Democratic Party...


Oh, and in Stalinist Russia, Nazi Germany, Cuba and North Korea, too! Wow, what a coincidence!

[fairlycrazy23]

Tax them, tax everybody, there should not be tax exempt organizations.

[fairlycrazy23]

Apr 1, 2011 16:14:16 GMT -5 @ty said:

Apr 1, 2011 15:01:35 GMT -5 workpublic said:

yet they let the irish starve during the famine

Didn't the rest of the world sit back and watch Hitler kill the disabled and elderly, then the gay and lesbians, and then the Jews. Only until it got way out of hand was when people got oinvolved and did something about Hitler and his regeme, but they didn't have any problems when he killed the disabled and the eldery deemed a burden to their society, and after those people, he then he went after the gays and lesbians.

I strongly believe that Church and Religions are more interested in raking in the cash rather than helping people they claim they are helping. Charlatans, false-profits, and a business growing bigger and bigger tax free and pocketing the money for their own selfish gains.

Personally, I feel we should ban all Church and Religion in the USA.
I think they have robbed the people enough by selling this intangible god of theirs and offering them false hopes of a better life in some made up heaven only after you die.

For me this is wrong and criminal.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[ty]

Apr 1, 2011 14:54:02 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

Refer to 1st Amendment, US constitution. It would be blatantly in violation to tax Religions. Churches on the other hand can be taxed ~ already. It's just up to the appropriate governmental entity to enact the taxes [The tax would be unconstitutional if it exceeded the tax for similar enterprises or "inhibited the free exercise" of religion.]
I too think that actual businesses run by churches should be taxed just like any other business, just as preacher's salaries are taxable like any other salary. I do believe that some enterprises like "thrift shops" and Bingo should be exempted though. It's actually up to the local taxing authority.

Funny how religion can be protected under the Freedom of Speech clause. So when they knock on my door and annoy me and hound people with their beliefs, can people exercise their 2nd Amendment rights and shut them up?

[Gardening Grandma]

Funny how religion can be protected under the Freedom of Speech clause. So when they knock on my door and annoy me and hound people with their beliefs, can people exercise their 2nd Amendment rights and shut them up?

Seriously, I'd be OK with churches being tax exempt if they were politically neutral. But when they promote one political candidate or position over another - and some are just flagrant about it, they should not be tax exempt.

What's even worse (and the Mormons and Catholics are the worst offenders) is pushing a political agenda to legislate their moral views onto those who don't share them.

[jkapp]

Apr 1, 2011 14:30:42 GMT -5 @ty said:

I know for some this is a very touchy topic to be discussing, but when it comes down to the people vs church and Religions and the people having to pay taxes and they don't. Is this really fair to the people? I say NO for numerous reasons. First, Church and Religions is now a multibillion dollar industry and all tax exempt. This is not fair, an I would realy like to find out where all these billions are going to for these so-called nonprofit businesses like Church and Religions. Then there is the other thing that bugs the snot outta me. If I am part of a Church and Religion organization, they don't have to pay taxes, then why do I have to pay taxes if I am part of the same group that isn't paying any taxes. It doesn't sound fair to me.
So I feel that we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

I'm all for it...and also taxing non-profits, charities, and every other agency currently claiming tax exempt status. Why should anyone get a free ride???

[Deleted]

Maybe we could just tax blatent hypocracy...

[ty]

Apr 1, 2011 21:21:38 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Just a couple points I'd like to make in the debate:

- If you tax Churches, you also have to let them vote - no taxation without representation right? Are the Liberals sure that you want that?

- The Catholic Church has fed more people, brought about more democratic societies, and uplifted more people in the last 500 years than any other organization in the world besides the US Military. If folks are really concerned about the issues facing the world today, why would they want to hamper the efforts of one organization who is actually making a positive change?

-and aren't the the biggest child molesting ring in the religious sector. I mean they do seem to be a breeding ground for them, and then cover up their crimes all in the name of their God so they can molest other children.

At one time I was going to do a semester of volunteer work at the Fred Jordan Mission in the Downtown LA area, but learned that the people had to conform to their religion and beliefs before they would help them. I then decided to to my volunteer work at a facility for disabled people in Santa Monica, CA. No strings attached and no one was forced to conform to anything. Just assist and work daily for 3 hours with people that had physical and mental disabilities. I think I learned a lot more these than I would have at some religious organization such as the Fred Jordan that wants someone to believe in their ways before helping the person in need of help.


I'm somewhat curious on what kind of help the catholic church is doing for the people. The last Catholic Cathedral that was built in down Town LA area removed a lady from the cathedral because she didn't pay the $5 cover charge to light a candle and say a prayer for someone. This is their way of keeping out the poor and homeless people from their cathedrals. As for the food lines and feeding the homeless, all that food is donated to these organizations that do not spend a dime of their proceeds in helping the people.

Church and Religion is a business now imo. They now have opened up drive-thru prayers for people that are too busy to attend a church and can now do a drive-thru and swipe a credit card or atm card. They are in the business of selling religious doll figures and toys as well. I feel the all need to be taxed. It pretty much has everything to do in collecting money instead of helping the people without money.

[ty]

Apr 1, 2011 21:24:40 GMT -5 oped said:

Maybe we could just tax blatent hypocracy...

They all would go out of business then. lol

[973beachbum]

and aren't the the biggest child molesting ring in the religious sector. I mean they do seem to be a breeding ground for them, and then cover up their crimes all in the name of their God so they can molest other children.

For the record there is no difference between the rate of catholic priest molesting children and jewish rabbils, or southern babtist ministers or truthfully school teachers or fireman or anyone else.

The percent of people that want to molest children is so low that there is no difference in what the person does that would have an effect.

But being the wealthiest church in the world has a big effect on the amount of lawsuits that are filed. Point being it happens in all religiions and walks of life but you won't get the same publicity as when a big multi million dollar lawsuit is filed.

[privateinvestor]

So get cracking. Maybe Code Pink has been out building houses in Africa, and I just haven't heard about it.

No not really Code Pink is bunch or wackos who wouldn't do anything except to demonstrate and protest ad nauseum, and have been know to egg cars including mine..

[Deleted]

Any assistance given by the church has historically come with many strings attached... and a great deal of disease, and superiority... (I love the part in Poisonwood Bible where the preacher is instructing the poor ignorant native on how to plant, and all his seeds get washed away because he insists on using rows, even though she tells him, again and again, that you need to plant in hills...) ... and its all in the process of conversion anyway....

... and then there is their historic treatment of women, Magdalene laundries anyone? ... and complicity in situations like Rwanda... shas we go back to selling indulgences...

My beliefs are pretty agnostic... I'm uncertain that anything can be known with any degree of certainty... that said, one thing i am completely convinced of is that if there was a gospel found the words of Jesus, or Mary Magdalene, or similar figure ... the Catholic Church would be the first to cover it up...

[Deleted]

Can you spell Peace Corp?

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

Apr 1, 2011 18:45:31 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

Is this really about taxation or just a rant against religion and churches?

Bingo!

[straydog]

Apr 1, 2011 14:30:42 GMT -5 @ty said:

I know for some this is a very touchy topic to be discussing, but when it comes down to the people vs church and Religions and the people having to pay taxes and they don't. Is this really fair to the people? I say NO for numerous reasons. First, Church and Religions is now a multibillion dollar industry and all tax exempt. This is not fair, an I would realy like to find out where all these billions are going to for these so-called nonprofit businesses like Church and Religions. Then there is the other thing that bugs the snot outta me. If I am part of a Church and Religion organization, they don't have to pay taxes, then why do I have to pay taxes if I am part of the same group that isn't paying any taxes. It doesn't sound fair to me.
So I feel that we should be taxing the hell out of all Church and Religions and put an end to their free ride in America.

I say no. If they were to do that, many small churches that are not 'multi-billion dollar industries' would have to shut their doors.

Are you concerned with the fact that the U.S. is broke, and that this would be a good way to help to get us out of the hole?

Then if the answer to that is 'yes', then how about this for a solution: Instead of violating the constitution by taxing religious institutions, why don't we just continue to abide by our constitution and abolish all the 'alphabet soup' federal departments and allow the states to take over these responsibilities?

This would save us billions and billions of dollars and we could then use that money to shore up social security, medicare, and medicaid.