Future Jobs Won't Support Decent Living Standard

[morrisr2d2]

Life is all about incentives. Many Americans don't have the right incentives in place to succeed because families and the government taking away those incentives by supporting people and making them too comfortable. the need to support yourself is a strong incentive.

Also, there may not be enough jobs in America, but there are definitely plenty of careers. My company has plenty of open career positions, but we have a very difficult time finding qualified people. Many end up coming from other countries, who didn't have it as good as Americans and have had strong incentives to improve their lives and succeed.

[morrisr2d2]

Incentives drives the world. Someone needs an incentive to provide those jobs, and someone needs the incentive to get the education/skills to qualify and obtain the job (or start their own business).

My company has more open career positions than qualified candidates. Some are filled by Americans that we snatch up instantly - we are always looking inside the country first. But there just aren't enough.

[doxieluvr]

"A single parent with 2 children and an income of just over $30K is still eligible for housing and daycare assistance along with numerous tax credits. Is that how they define economic security? They must be if adding another adult requires another $38K. "

I am not sure what state you live in that single parents with a $30k salary are offered housing and daycare assistance. In Maryland, a single parent of two children with a $30k salary does not even qualify for foodstamps, let alone daycare and housing.

I can assure you that my coworker, a single mom of 4 children, with a salary of $32k, and very sporadic child support, gets no assistance at all. I take that back, our boss allows her to leave early one day a month to go to the local food bank.

[qofcc]

I am not sure what state you live in that single parents with a $30k salary are offered housing and daycare assistance. In Maryland, a single parent of two children with a $30k salary does not even qualify for food stamps, let alone daycare and housing.

I live in Western NY. Food stamps have a very low income threshold, but the section 8 program has you pay 30% of your income until that amount reaches the housing allowance for your family size. A single parent with 1 child can make just over $30K and a 2 parent family can make around $40K. The income based housing apartments use the same standards. Daycare assistance is also available with a sliding subsidy (the parent portion increases as wages go up) based on income and tops out just over $30K.

I don't think that's uncommon. The last big thread on MSN before we moved over here, that girl in Maryland with 2 kids & the truck driver boyfriend earned low 30's and was just a couple thousand over the limit.

[doxieluvr]

Maryland does not have low limits like that. If I remember correctly the previous poster, did not get housing and daycare assistance. I believe she did get foodstamps of $12 or $16 dollars. I can't remember what it was exactly, but I do remember it was under $20.

[ameiko]

Apr 2, 2011 0:21:39 GMT -5 oped said:

I kind of like these days when people can make up their own minds about how many parents they want at home... Just saying...

Not really, given the social policies that have all but killed the ability of most familes to have a stay at home spouse. There really is no choice barring some exceptional planning and a willingness to not keep up with the Jones. It's possible but really tough... and that's how the government wants it; the better to indoctrinate your children in those propaganda centers we call schools.

[ameiko]

Apr 2, 2011 8:36:21 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

More to the point, I don't think stable 2 parent families can get by much longer. The days of scabs are upon us.

There aren't that many stable two parent families, period. Again, social and government forces have created this between welfare that only help you if you are not married to the father of your children as well as the "I can do whatever I want... and you have to pay for it" mentality out there.

Only good thing is that single men, at least those who some swag and confidence, don't need to get married to have sexual companions.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 2, 2011 6:00:45 GMT -5 morrisr2d2 said:

Life is all about incentives. Many Americans don't have the right incentives in place to succeed because families and the government taking away those incentives by supporting people and making them too comfortable. the need to support yourself is a strong incentive.

Also, there may not be enough jobs in America, but there are definitely plenty of careers. My company has plenty of open career positions, but we have a very difficult time finding qualified people. Many end up coming from other countries, who didn't have it as good as Americans and have had strong incentives to improve their lives and succeed.

Yeah, I got to ask one of the most successful people in the world what motivated him early on (he started with nothing- the "house" he grew up in was a lean-to next to a factory), he said, "Malnutrition".

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 2, 2011 10:23:40 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

I really don't agree. The loss of decent paying jobs has helped create a society where many men don't marry in the first place. How do you support a wife and kiddies while working in Mickey D's?

I know this is going to come across as harsh, but it used to be Standard Operating Procedure: You do not qualify for a wife and kids until you can support them financially.

It seems now people feel entitled to get married (or not) and just have kids, and THEN get a job to support them.

These people frequently discover too late that life is tough, but it's a lot tougher if you're stupid.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 1, 2011 17:45:56 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I think this most recent downturn has and will continue to be instructive to the lazy

Sure, it taught them how to blame everyone but themselves when life is tough. These people won't change & will forever be victims of their environment.

I agree that most people who are successful have a very different work ethic & traits than those that are min. wage workers their whole lives. Even for the successful who do well in college, education is only a stepping stone to help you get started in your career. I've met plenty of lazy & stupid people with college educations.

The laziest people I know have college degrees. I think extending education- and thus pushing out the age at which a person is expected to start being a productive member of society to what used to be considered early middle age is a big part of our problem right now.

I started working for $$$ at 10. I was a full time sonuvabitch by the age of 13 going to school and pushing 30+ hours a week doing my own odd-job, yard work, fence painting, car washing stuff as much as I could do before I dropped. And on top of that, I rode my bicycle a min. of 26 miles a day and 200 miles on the weekend almost year-round.

I didn't get my first opportunity to be lazy until I joined the NAVY- and that's a fact. I never knew what it was like to sit around, watch television, and play video games. I never had the time until all that "discipline" they instill in you in the military came about.

And you really can't do much with the pay scale there, either. That was probably the worst part-- getting paid the same as some slug that was the same rank as me while I did both of our jobs and he sat there like a lump.

[Phoenix84]

"I really don't agree. The loss of decent paying jobs has helped create a society where many men don't marry in the first place. How do you support a wife and kiddies while working in Mickey D's?"

What's the alternative? Everyone (men and women) stay single and work low paying jobs? Women get knocked up and stay single mothers while having a live in boyfriend who works at a fast food restaraunt?

I'm still skeptical that there still aren't opportunities for to move beyond a minimum wage job for those who work for it and excercise good planning. I'm fairly young, and I managed to get a decent job. I don't know anyone who has worked at a minimum wage job their whole life. Even when I worked in high school (didn't even have a diploma) I still made about $2/hr above minimum wage.

If you're halfway compentent and willing to work hard, I think you can still support a family. It seems like most of the public expects to graduate high school and just be handed a 30k/yr job or higher.

[Phoenix84]

"No, they seem to beget the kids and then start over with baby mamas 2 and three. Marriage is never in the picture. Life is certainly tough for the women and kids, for the men, not bad."

And the "baby mammas" don't share any responsibility for getting knocked up by a loser? It takes two to tango, and it's usually pretty obvious the guy isn't stable family material.

I just get really tired of this rhetoric of women who get knocked up and have 6 kids with 3 different men as victims. You'd think they'd at least learn after kid number 1.

[formerexpat]

This doesn't seem like a legitimate article or study for that matter.

The result? To achieve economic security, a single parent with two children needs an income of just over $30,000 a year--nearly twice the federal minimum wage--while a two-income household needs almost $68,000.

And claims like this support my suspicion in almost all corners of the US. We live on less than that in a higher COL with much more than just basic needs.

I guess with monthly expenses of $688 for housing, $495 for transportation, $291 for personal and household items and taxes of $384, then you do get to NEEDS of $30k a year. Utilities of $149 also seem high to me.

[doxieluvr]

I can't imagine that one can find housing for $688 is a higher COL area. I am very sure it can't be found in the area I live. I have a coworker that has been diligently looking for housing in the $600 range, or $800 including utilities for 6 months. $800 is just shy of half of her take home income, so I can understand her need to stick to the budget.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 2, 2011 11:31:48 GMT -5 doxieluvr said:

I can't imagine that one can find housing for $688 is a higher COL area. I am very sure it can't be found in the area I live. I have a coworker that has been diligently looking for housing in the $600 range, or $800 including utilities for 6 months. $800 is just shy of half of her take home income, so I can understand her need to stick to the budget.

You'd have to drive 30 to 45 minutes, but you can find it here. Palm Beach County isn't exactly a cheap place to live, but there's plenty of affordable housing. You might not like the area as much, but c'mon-- you're not entitled to a glorious single family home in a good school district because you "want" one.

You're entitled to find what you can afford. You get to live the lifestyle you've earned.

That's actually the best part about being an American. Being permitted to live the lifestyle you've earned is why so many people want to come here. It is the great blessing of liberty. It's sad so many people would rather whine than work.

[formerexpat]

I can't imagine that one can find housing for $688 is a higher COL area. I am very sure it can't be found in the area I live.

Ravens fan; Baltimore area? I'm in the Baltimore metro area too. You can find this price housing on the eastern shore, just north of Baltimore. You may not like or decide yourself to live in that area but there are places where prices are that cheap. I can find a number of places now in that area that are under $125k to buy with some as lower than $80k [for 1,000 sq ft 3 bd, 1 bath town homes].

[constanz22]

Apr 2, 2011 11:27:10 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

This doesn't seem like a legitimate article or study for that matter.

The result? To achieve economic security, a single parent with two children needs an income of just over $30,000 a year--nearly twice the federal minimum wage--while a two-income household needs almost $68,000.

And claims like this support my suspicion in almost all corners of the US. We live on less than that in a higher COL with much more than just basic needs.

I guess with monthly expenses of $688 for housing, $495 for transportation, $291 for personal and household items and taxes of $384, then you do get to NEEDS of $30k a year. Utilities of $149 also seem high to me.

Wow, $149 a month seems high?? I live in a VERY LCOL area, am one person living in a 1300 sf home. My utilities (Elec., fuel oil, propane, water, sewer, and trash) run at least $300 a month!

[formerexpat]

Wow, $149 a month seems high?? I live in a VERY LCOL area, am one person living in a 1300 sf home. My utilities (Elec., fuel oil, propane, water, sewer, and trash) run at least $300 a month!

Sounds like an inefficient home to me. I live in a 2700 sq ft town home, 4 people with a SAHP [i.e. using electric all day] and our electric, gas, water/sewer is right around $200 a month on average. And we are in a higher COL area [in the top 35 metro areas according to Kiplinger].

I'd figure that someone looking for just the "basics" would come in under $150, especially in the lower COL areas and with a parent working (or both parents working).

[doxieluvr]

Apr 2, 2011 11:46:20 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

I can't imagine that one can find housing for $688 is a higher COL area. I am very sure it can't be found in the area I live.

Ravens fan; Baltimore area? I'm in the Baltimore metro area too. You can find this price housing on the eastern shore, just north of Baltimore. You may not like or decide yourself to live in that area but there are places where prices are that cheap. I can find a number of places now in that area that are under $125k to buy with some as lower than $80k [for 1,000 sq ft 3 bd, 1 bath town homes].

I am in Harford Co, and it would be a tough challenge to find a three bedroom townhome for less than $100k.

My coworker is looking to rent a one bedroom apartment. She is unable to buy a house at this time, because she is going through a divorce, and her ex is getting to keep their house, but she can't remove her name from for a certain period of time.

I am sure the home you are referring to are in the not so nice neighborhoods close to Baltimore. It may be safer to live in a cardboard box in a safer neighborhood, than purchase a home in the areas with high crime risk.

[formerexpat]

I am in Harford Co, and it would be a tough challenge to find a three bedroom townhome for less than $100k.

I'm in the same county as you. You wouldn't even need to leave Harford county to get one of those homes. You would have to go to Abingdon or Edgewood though, which I understand many people here in this area turn their nose up at. [/size]

[formerexpat]

I am sure the home you are referring to are in the not so nice neighborhoods close to Baltimore. It may be safer to live in a cardboard box in a safer neighborhood, than purchase a home in the areas with high crime risk.

Yep, this was the snobbery I was talking about. I went to the Edgewood high of my area. I understand this snobbery and have seen it a lot in the area I grew up in.

"Better to live in a cardboard box " It must be nice not to have shit that stinks.

[/size]

[doxieluvr]

Apr 2, 2011 12:19:17 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

I am sure the home you are referring to are in the not so nice neighborhoods close to Baltimore. It may be safer to live in a cardboard box in a safer neighborhood, than purchase a home in the areas with high crime risk.

Yep, this was the snobbery I was talking about. I went to the Edgewood high of my area. I understand this snobbery and have seen it a lot in the area I grew up in.

"Better to live in a cardboard box " It must be nice not to have shit that stinks.

[/size][/quote]

You can call it snobbery all you want. I won't live anywhere, that I would not shop at dusk, and Edgewood is that type of area. It is not a safe place to live.

[formerexpat]

You can call it snobbery all you want. I won't live anywhere, that I would not shop at dusk, and Edgewood is that type of area. It is not a safe place to live.

Code for "too many black people for my comfort". It's fine, I understand. The area surrounding the school district I went to had a lot of people like you. Closet racism alive and well in the 21st century. I've been in Edgewood at night and have been and felt fine. [/size]

[lurkyloo]

Granted, I'm in a HCOL area. $600+ is what it runs to rent a room in a SFH here. You can go farther out, but boy will you pay for it in gas. And some of the formerly relatively LCOL areas are getting gentrified.

Also, our utilities average around $300/month for a 2200 sq ft house. That's in an area where we run the furnace maybe 2 weeks a year and don't have air conditioning at all. I'm sure our house isn't all that well insulated...but we're NOT wasteful people either. Most of that is electric and water. We just let the lawn go brown in the summer; the water bill is easily $150-$200/mo if we run the sprinklers enough to keep it semi-green.

[doxieluvr]

I am not racist at all. Some of my closest friends are black, and they do live in the northern end of the county also. Honestly, Edgewood scares them too. I should be one of the last people you call racist, heck, I am not even married to an American.

[morrisr2d2]

Part of the entitlement culture is very undercurrent in our society. Listen to how often people use the work "need" or "deserve", two words that make me cringe inside.

For example - "I need a vacation" or "I need a massage". No you don't, there are very few true needs in life. You may have earned that vacation/massage, great, but you don't need it. Or "She is so special, she deserves the best." No, no one deserves anything in life (except liberty and the pursuit of happiness), you have to earn it. People who eliminate these words from their vocabulary have a much better chance at success.

[daisylu]

Apr 2, 2011 13:02:18 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

You can call it snobbery all you want. I won't live anywhere, that I would not shop at dusk, and Edgewood is that type of area. It is not a safe place to live.

Code for "too many black people for my comfort". It's fine, I understand. The area surrounding the school district I went to had a lot of people like you. Closet racism alive and well in the 21st century. I've been in Edgewood at night and have been and felt fine.

[/size][/quote]

I lived in Baltimore city from birth until age 18, I am now 35. I would have never walked around at night in 95% of the neighborhoods located in the city. There was at least 1 girl (of any race) raped per month at the high school in our district, which prompted my parents to take on debt to send me to a private school. You can fear for your safety without being racist. That is an asinine assumption.

[daisylu]

Food stamps are federally regulated. Taken from the USDA site:

www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/eligibility.htm

(Oct. 1, 2010 through Sept. 30, 2011)

Household size


Gross monthly income
(130 percent of poverty)


Net monthly income
(100 percent of poverty)

1
$1,174 $ 903

2
1,579 1,215

3
1,984 1,526

4
2,389 1,838

5
2,794 2,150

6
3,200 2,461

7
3,605 2,773

8
4,010 3,085

Each additional member
+406 +312

Gross income means a household's total, nonexcluded income, before any deductions have been made. Net income means gross income minus allowable deductions.

This falls far below the incomes in the article, and does not factor in assets - which the program does.


It is not as easy to get the assistance that some posters believe. When I was a single mom (with 2 kids & no CS), I lived just over the WV line but worked in VA making right @ $30,000. I qualified for nothing but the reduced school lunch program.

[formerexpat]

I lived in Baltimore city from birth until age 18, I am now 35.

We weren't talking about the city of Baltimore, we were talking about the suburbs. move on.

[daisylu]

Apr 2, 2011 14:03:49 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

I lived in Baltimore city from birth until age 18, I am now 35.

We weren't talking about the city of Baltimore, we were talking about the suburbs. move on.

It was still an asinine assumption.