NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 6, 2022 16:20:11 GMT -5
Well, I think it's time that I add scoping out some elder law lawyers to my list of summer projects. If anyone has any thoughts/suggestions on what I should look out for, that would be great. I think mom is getting pretty unhinged because is no one is enabling her for the first time in at least 50 years, maybe longer. She's starting to tick off self-neglect boxes.
I don't even know what adult protective services could do for her. One of the organizations APS refers folks won't deal with her anymore. I don't want to be her legal guardian, but it looks like legal action could result in mom getting into a facility. That is still a pretty good outcome.
All I can say is good luck and if you want a place to vent shoot me a PM. You're in for one hell of a ride. May Wisconsin be easier than Iowa and Nebraska. I will say be careful of things like A Place for Mom. They are not what they advertise themselves to be. Turns out they are like Angie's List where nursing homes and elder care pay a generous fee to have A Place for Mom direct you to them. The more money they pay in fees the more likely A Place for Mom will recommend them. It doesn't mean those place are bad but you're not getting the full range of what is out there and you're going to be directed to the places that cost the most. I will be honest in that you will probably have a difficult road ahead of you. My grandmother was self-neglecting but the tests were all for things like spacial skills and memory which she passed with flying colors. Since she was mentally competent she had the right to spend her days using paper towels as toilet paper as far as the state was concerned. They did not intervene until she fell and even then they tried to send her home. It was the nurses thankfully who stepped in there and agreed that she could not be released back home.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 6, 2022 18:02:00 GMT -5
I will be honest in that you will probably have a difficult road ahead of you. My grandmother was self-neglecting but the tests were all for things like spacial skills and memory which she passed with flying colors. Since she was mentally competent she had the right to spend her days using paper towels as toilet paper as far as the state was concerned. They did not intervene until she fell and even then they tried to send her home. It was the nurses thankfully who stepped in there and agreed that she could not be released back home. Mostly, I think I just want some information gathering this summer, when we are less busy. So, when I have to drop everything, I'll have a good idea of how to proceed.
My mom needs to be seen by medical professionals. She's not going willingly and she's not getting meds without being seen.
I wish we were talking using paper towel as TP. We're talking living off ensure and then telling me she's allowing herself a few crackers or a piece of bread a day because she hasn't shopped in close to two months. I'm not convinced that it's that bad, because she has to pay her bills at a grocery store...But, it very well could be that she hasn't gotten herself food in close to a month now. She has options other than me or her. She's just not interested in pursuing options in a way where she's still taking care of herself.
Honestly, I'm getting impatient with waiting for mom to hit rock bottom. I figure there are levers that I can pull to hasten her hitting rock bottom. Or, I can keep on what I'm doing now, which is to choose to not enable her.
I actually haven't quite given up on mom yet. I still think there's a small part of her left, that understands that she is not healthy..and that drs and meds really need to be step 1.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2022 20:25:02 GMT -5
Well, I think it's time that I add scoping out some elder law lawyers to my list of summer projects. If anyone has any thoughts/suggestions on what I should look out for, that would be great. I think mom is getting pretty unhinged because is no one is enabling her for the first time in at least 50 years, maybe longer. She's starting to tick off self-neglect boxes.
I don't even know what adult protective services could do for her. One of the organizations APS refers folks won't deal with her anymore. I don't want to be her legal guardian, but it looks like legal action could result in mom getting into a facility. That is still a pretty good outcome.
All I can say is good luck and if you want a place to vent shoot me a PM. You're in for one hell of a ride. May Wisconsin be easier than Iowa and Nebraska. I will say be careful of things like A Place for Mom. They are not what they advertise themselves to be. Turns out they are like Angie's List where nursing homes and elder care pay a generous fee to have A Place for Mom direct you to them. The more money they pay in fees the more likely A Place for Mom will recommend them. It doesn't mean those place are bad but you're not getting the full range of what is out there and you're going to be directed to the places that cost the most. I will be honest in that you will probably have a difficult road ahead of you. My grandmother was self-neglecting but the tests were all for things like spacial skills and memory which she passed with flying colors. Since she was mentally competent she had the right to spend her days using paper towels as toilet paper as far as the state was concerned. They did not intervene until she fell and even then they tried to send her home. It was the nurses thankfully who stepped in there and agreed that she could not be released back home. Another thing about A Place For Mom, I contacted them soon after my Mom moved into my house. I immediately started getting calls from people talking about Medicare and all kinds of senior citizen type stuff. That is when I really stopped answering calls from unknown numbers. It was just that bad. “A Place For Mom” was literally the only place I’d contacted at that time, about that kind of stuff. If they tried to say they weren’t the reason I started getting a lot of phone calls about Medicare and senior citizens, I would say in any courtroom, that they are a bald faced lie.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 23, 2022 9:21:18 GMT -5
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 23, 2022 9:43:28 GMT -5
Drama, I don't know how DHHS found out but I am shocked they acted they fast. When I called because of the conditions my cousin was keeping his mother (locked in her house with a bed, chair and access to a bathroom with few visitors) about that and the filth in her house, DHHS did nothing for about 6 weeks. They called for more information because they were ready to go visit. I had just returned from my aunt's funeral. They got some choice works from me. Maybe the bank called? I don't know but I know I got a rep payee client because the bank called Social Security because her son was writing checks for cash at bars. Is it possible the nursing home got your grandma to sign something she didn't understand about applying for Medicaid?
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 23, 2022 10:11:21 GMT -5
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 23, 2022 10:19:02 GMT -5
Crazy to think of nursing home execs as bullies but that's the behavior you're describing.
Can you get the lawyer to write some kind of cease and desist? Could also try blasting them on social media.
If the lawyer is saying you/your dad are doing things right, then try to tune out the bullying.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jun 23, 2022 12:47:53 GMT -5
Sounds like the facility is used to ripping off clients and their families. I am so sorry you and your father have been treated this way.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 23, 2022 13:03:40 GMT -5
I'm so sorry Drama.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a POA is that it doesn't stop your grandma from still making her own decisions. I'd be concerned about them bullying her into signing something. When my mom was hospitalized the hospital tried to convince me signing the financial responsibility forms would in no way make me responsible for her bills. Nope, that wasn't gonna happen. I can read and I know what it said. My point is, even reputable facilities will lie when it comes to $$$.
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cooper88
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Post by cooper88 on Jun 23, 2022 13:27:20 GMT -5
I don't know if this plays into anything or how long until she runs out of money, but if she gives any money away it would lock her out of Medicaid for five years. But if she is competent to make money decisions, she can still do that. Something seems very fishy to me here.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 23, 2022 13:50:48 GMT -5
I can't help but wonder if the nursing home could have tricked your grandma into signing a Medicaid application, or some other form they came up with.
I agree, the whole thing sounds fishy. Do you know for sure it was really DHHS that called you?
I'm glad you have an attorney who's looking out for all of you.
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cooper88
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Post by cooper88 on Jun 23, 2022 14:14:25 GMT -5
I'm an advocate for nursing home residents who want to return to the community. It's appalling what different entities will attempt, even though it's against every regulation. I worry about the residents who don't have anyone looking out for them.
I know you have your hands full right now, but you might contact the long term care Ombudsman. That person may be aware of a systemic problem there, or maybe you will make them aware of something that is a systemic problem. There should be a poster in every facility with the contact information.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 23, 2022 15:27:21 GMT -5
What changed to make you poa?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 23, 2022 18:39:45 GMT -5
The actions you describe you would be able to do are what a representative payee can do.
Because I was doing it as a volunteer through an agency, I was audited every month. I was allowed to buy clothes for a client using my Kohl's card to get the 30% off and then reimburse myself because I had a receipt for the robe she asked me to buy for her. Same for when I would buy them underwear.
When I signed my will, my attorney had this type of conversation with me as to when things change as to when others can spend my money.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 23, 2022 20:43:38 GMT -5
So I guess I missed a few things. Sounds like they are determined to revoke Drama's dad's POA. I don't get how they think Drama will be a better option for them. She's pretty much going to look out for grandma in the same way her dad would.
All of this is ridiculous, but I guess they can get away with it. And with the way this place is acting how can you even trust they are taking good care of the residents?
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 23, 2022 21:18:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry you and your family are going thru all this, Drama. It's infuriating that they are doing this and, it seems, getting away with it.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Jun 23, 2022 21:41:46 GMT -5
I hope you are able to disentangle your dad, NomoreDramaQ1015, and find a way to keep your GU together and get through to your grandmother so she can move. What a mess.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 23, 2022 21:54:31 GMT -5
What a mess DQ. I wish you and your family strength and grace to get through this.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 23, 2022 22:53:06 GMT -5
We dealt with multiple facilities over 10 years and never ran into anything like that. I'd work to move her asap.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 23, 2022 23:16:02 GMT -5
Believe me it's all a mess. MIL's mess has driven me up the wall more than once. You can't get answers, no matter whether you follow it all legally or not it's still a mess. Good luck, I wonder what we are getting into with this hospice situation. But now MIL has nothing anyway, it's all gone, I just worry Indiana may come after us. They have passed some filial responsibility laws but so far they haven't been enforcing them. But nothing would surprise me.
With all the privacy laws and paperwork I have gone through this doesn't sound right. I'm wondering if your grandma has signed off on something. But she could not even apply for medicaid unless her assets were down to a certain level. They do interviews, get docs information and all kinds of information. Who is this person calling and what is his authority, your attorney is right, something here is terribly wrong. And if she was going to take care of a GU she should have set up a trust or something for him. It may be to late at this point, but again only an attorney can help you with this. An elder care attorney is your best bet.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 24, 2022 8:38:01 GMT -5
So sorry you and family have this mess I had a special needs sister and went through years of lawyers social workers Medicaid benefits organizations etc Makes my stomach hurt remembering. I dearly loved my sweet sister and tried always to give her the best life possible. At one point with a lawyers suggestion I had her kitchen redone. She had lived with our mom who had been Ill and kitchen cabinets were falling apart but couldn’t replace since mom was too sick. After mom passed sister and I wanted to update kitchen. I wanted her to live in a pretty clean condo. As cabinets etc were ordered from HD I used my cc to order and pay. Lawyer said I should use money from sister’s trust to repay myself. When I applied to Medicaid for sister there was a hearing with a judge, sisters special needs lawyer was with me and sister. The Medicaid rep loudly accused me of stealing from sister. My lawyer defended me but this accusation was devastating to me. I will never forget how cruel and incompetent these organizations are that are supposed to help people in need
NMDQ you will get through this! But yes always work with your own lawyer and try to get everything from the nursing home and lawyer in writing (print and keep emails) and save
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 24, 2022 9:45:43 GMT -5
And now you know why I worry about our DD when we die or are no longer able to care for her. Right now our advocates are great people, we have had this company for the 10 years we have been here and the same person. But that could change in a heartbeat.
I so hope we outlive her, a horrible thing to say.
Believe me my thoughts are with you.
I think part of your issue is that your grandma is still considered competent and that is one of the reasons no one can do anything. She, at this point is still in charge of her money. Even if she is judged unable to care for her affairs it's too late to get money out. It's a 5 year look back. Hubs is worrying about that. Here if you pull money out they don't make you give it back, they just penalize you and suspend your benefits until that amount of money would have been considered paid back, so basically you private pay.
I'm not sure what we will do, but we are set to do something. Unless we have a stroke or something I don't see us not making it for 5 more years, but time is running out.
You need to find a knowledgeable advocate to help you. Yes, this lady brought it on herself, but I understand how hard it is to give up control of your assets. Knowing what my former SIL did is enough to make you afraid.
Seems to me you don't have all the information. Sounds like they are supposedly looking out for your grandma or that's the theory behind it and not let others make decisions for her right now. You are correct, get HER to make the decision to move, she can do that.
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snapdragon
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Post by snapdragon on Jun 24, 2022 11:09:59 GMT -5
Sending hugs and virtual support.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jun 24, 2022 12:24:13 GMT -5
The latest on MIL, she is on the edge, a couple of more incidents of her attacking other residents and she is likely going to be sent somewhere else. And the case worker with hospice said they are not good places. Lots of screaming and yelling and just bad. I guess she is resisting bathing and things like that too. Her mom did the same. I don't know how long they can continue like that and live, she is into dementia at least 10 years.
He said the reason was an administrator can go to jail if they don't do enough. He said a few years ago a patient hit another patient causing them to fall and hit their head and died. I guess they were judged to not have done enough and were sent to jail for 2 years. No wonder they are so afraid.
Good luck with your issues.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 24, 2022 20:34:48 GMT -5
The end result is it looks like I will not be forced to become grandma's POA at this time. Which is all I care about at this point. This is good.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 24, 2022 22:12:13 GMT -5
Can your attorney state that the DHHS officer threatened her into signing the paperwork, NomoreDramaQ1015? After all, they were threatening you. I'm not convinced she signed that paperwork willingly. JMHO.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 24, 2022 22:31:01 GMT -5
I don't understand what they are threatening you and your dad with. Even your attorney said he did nothing wrong, that money was legally his, too. If it's pertaining to the fall, can't you (with witnesses or recorded) ask your grandma to tell what happened? How can they prohibit you from visiting her? Myself, I would not give up easily. It seems to me they are the ones guilty of abuse. I, too, wonder if they coerced her into signing whatever paperwork they laid in front of her. I know it's extremely stressful and am sorry we can't do more to help. If you go to cms.gov there is a huge amount of info pertaining to nursing home requirements. Maybe you could find something helpful there. www.cms.gov/nursing-homes/patients-caregivers/residents-rights-quality-care
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 24, 2022 22:44:40 GMT -5
Grandma can't remember that day.
She's actually said DH pushed her in a few retellings of it.
So yeah the last thing we need is a recording of her telling that version floating around.
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ners
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Post by ners on Jun 25, 2022 8:25:34 GMT -5
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 25, 2022 9:47:41 GMT -5
and good luck today. Sure sounds like Grandma was coerced in to signed whatever she signed yesterday. I do think this is a large part of the reason my attorney had me remove all co-signers from my bank account. As long as I don't write checks to my future executor for large amounts of money, all is good.
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