SPYGATE; SMOKING GUN

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2018 7:07:53 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 31, 2018 20:53:48 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Some people's imaginations are really fantastic! 

Like some people imagining an imaginary 4th branch of government- an "Investigative" branch that can run around unchecked obstructing the President in the performance of his duties.

It's all coming to an end...

Devin Nunes is nothing but a lapdog to the most corrupt person in the country.  He lost all credibility early on.

And while I will never waste time watching any video you put up, it is even easier to treat with disdain a site that spells it "RESPONCE."     

[swamp]

I want to know how this is a "responce" to Google.  WTF does that even mean?

And no, I'm not going to click on that shit.  

[Opti]

The one person that is most like Hoover is Donald J. I don't want a dictatorship in America. That is far worse than some of the FBI and CIA doing their jobs in a less than exemplary fashion. Just being elected should not make you immune to prosecution if you have done very bad things. Clinton was prosecuted for Whitewater and other misdeeds while President. Its time for Trump supporters to suck it up and stop pretending Trump isn't trying to be Nixon every day.

[billisonboard]

Jun 4, 2018 8:45:01 GMT -5 Opti said:

... Clinton was prosecuted for Whitewater and other misdeeds while President. ...

Sure on Whitewater? He wasn't impeached on it. Approved Articles of Impeachment

[retread]

Jun 4, 2018 8:52:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 4, 2018 8:45:01 GMT -5 Opti said:

... Clinton was prosecuted for Whitewater and other misdeeds while President. ...

Sure on Whitewater? He wasn't impeached on it. Approved Articles of Impeachment

Neither Clinton was prosecuted for Whitewater although Hillary could have been and any possible charges against Bill would have had to wait until he was no longer serving as President.

An investigation is definitely not the same as prosecution.

[Opti]

Jun 4, 2018 8:59:41 GMT -5 retread said:

Jun 4, 2018 8:52:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sure on Whitewater? He wasn't impeached on it. Approved Articles of Impeachment

Neither Clinton was prosecuted for Whitewater although Hillary could have been and any possible charges against Bill would have had to wait until he was no longer serving as President.

An investigation is definitely not the same as prosecution.

Sorry, I sit corrected. He was investigated in a public, televised way. It still seems weird to me that during a trial of non US government officials we have prosecuting attorneys, but we have broadcast investigations of US officials that remind me of trials, but are "investigations".

[tallguy]

It is true, however, that the charges that Bill Clinton was ultimately impeached for and acquitted of did arise from the Ken Starr investigation that was originally focused on Whitewater.  The Special Counsel ranged far and wide in his investigation.  Nobody who agreed with that should be questioning Robert Mueller's right to do the same. 

[OldCoyote]

So is the entire DOJ, FBI, DNC, NSA, And an entire cast of players in this ARE above the Law??

Did you read thru the timeline?

If any of this is true,,, Please take some time List the innocent in this!!!

It will be a damned short list.

Here is the part that amazes me It is OK as long as they are going after Trump!!

There are far greater breaches of conduct than those charged with lying!

[retread]

Jun 4, 2018 9:20:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sorry, I sit corrected.

'sit' I like that.

Jun 4, 2018 9:20:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

He was investigated in a public, televised way.

Technically he wasn't investigated. The Whitewater Development Corporation was. As a result there were about a dozen people who were prosecuted (and convicted) some of them on numerous felony charges, although neither Bill nor Hillary were prosecuted. So it wasn't an empty investigation.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2018 9:44:04 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

There are far greater breaches of conduct than those charged with lying!

agreed.  Manaford faces 150 years under maximum sentencing.  that is not for perjury.

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2018 9:44:04 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

So is the entire DOJ, FBI, DNC, NSA, And an entire cast of players in this ARE above the Law??

Did you read thru the timeline?

If any of this is true,,, Please take some time List the innocent in this!!!

It will be a damned short list.

Here is the part that amazes me It is OK as long as they are going after Trump!!

There are far greater breaches of conduct than those charged with lying!

I did not and will not read with any seriousness any timeline put forth by right-wing bloggers, because here's the thing:  It most likely isn't in any real way true.  It is spin and conjecture, ascribing dishonest and illegal motives and reasons to perfectly reasonable actions and stretching any slight truth that may exist almost beyond recognition.  You can read self-serving lies if you wish.  I choose not to waste my time in such manner.    

[happyhoix]

Jun 4, 2018 10:23:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 4, 2018 9:44:04 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

So is the entire DOJ, FBI, DNC, NSA, And an entire cast of players in this ARE above the Law??

Did you read thru the timeline?

If any of this is true,,, Please take some time List the innocent in this!!!

It will be a damned short list.

Here is the part that amazes me It is OK as long as they are going after Trump!!

There are far greater breaches of conduct than those charged with lying!

I did not and will not read with any seriousness any timeline put forth by right-wing bloggers, because here's the thing:  It most likely isn't in any real way true.  It is spin and conjecture, ascribing dishonest and illegal motives and reasons to perfectly reasonable actions and stretching any slight truth that may exist almost beyond recognition.  You can read self-serving lies if you wish.  I choose not to waste my time in such manner.    

Yep. Like claiming two government employees talking privately to each other in emails and referring to an 'insurance policy' must therefore be dark hat/black hole international globalist conspirators referring to some nefarious Obama/Clinton/Jewish/Muslim plot to subvert the election and over take the world.

Because it can't just be two disgruntled friends randomly bitching to each other.  

[happyhoix]

Jun 4, 2018 8:19:24 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

The more somebody posts, the more I know that Mr. Trump is in deep doo doo. 

HE penned the letter, not Don Jr.  Surprise, surprise.  

And, no Mr. President, you are NOT above the Law.  

I gauge the amount of shit Trump is stepping in based on his tweets.

This morning, he tweeted that he has the 'absolute right to PARDON myself.'

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-has-power-to-pardon-himself-but-has-%E2%80%98done-nothing-wrong%E2%80%99/ar-AAydhCa

Although he claims he doesn't need to, because he hasn't done anything wrong.

Next step will be to go ahead and give himself a blanket pardon 'although I haven't done anything wrong' so we can stop with the 'witch hunt' and get back to business.

If he does, how many of the GOP congress people will continue to sit there passively, pretending not to notice that the president's hair is on fire, and how many of them will grow the balls to push back?

[Opti]

Trump and Rudi have become delusional. They act more like residents of a locked ward dementia unit than knowledgeable public servants.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 7:46:03 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 3, 2018 18:24:42 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Not as sick as I am of you portraying this as a battle of facts when we clearly agree on the facts. This is an argument over standards, values, and trustworthiness.

You keep saying that, then aligning yourself with the party that has knowingly, chronically lied from the very outset of the campaign, and then spent a good deal of time denying that they lied, until backed into a corner, when they grudgingly admitted they lied, but then changed the dialogue to come up with a good reason for the lie, or to pretend the lie didn't really matter.

Remember Trump St kept insisting he didn't know about the Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr and the Russians? That was just a meeting to talk about adoptions? Trump Sr insisting he didn't assist in writing the memo that supposedly came from Trump Jr about that meeting?

The WH is finally admitting that was a lie. Trump Sr wrote the memo that supposedly came from Trump Jr - and then lied about it. But their new argument is, it doesn't matter anyway, because the President can't be indicted. Or, as Giuliani said, the President could shoot Comey in the Oval Office and not be indicted for it.

slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/lawyers-admit-trump-dictated-response-to-trump-tower-meeting-despite-denials.html

(Of course, this might screw of Trump Jr, who testified he and he alone wrote the memo in testimony to Congress).

Now that Trump finally admitted he knew about the Trump Tower meeting, and that he wrote the memo supposedly written by Trump Jr, his new strategy seems to be to bluff the public by claiming the president can't be indicted - which is, interestingly enough, the exact opposite of what Giuliani was saying back when Clinton was being impeached. And these are the guys you trust more than the DOJ?

If you want me to believe Pres. Trump is a liar and crooked, you needn't bother: I agree with you. They apparently set Mr. Trump Jr. up with a sting, he took the bait, he involved his father, and both lied to conceal their misbehaviour. Perhaps Mr. Mueller will indict Mr. Trump Jr. as a result, although I doubt it.

But your defense of the agency conduct is a toxic mixture of tu quoque and ends justifying the means, and the precedent you'd be setting curdles the blood.

It's perfectly possible to condemn both sides. It's not a zero sum game. You claim that I'm "aligning yourself with the party" of thus-and-such betrays America's dialectical thinking that this is somehow a war to determine who is in the wrong, and only one side can win. I'm sorry but both Pres. Trump and agency actors can lie, distort, conceal, and abuse power independently, and they ought to be judged independently. If you consent to the ends justifying the means "just this once", you'll reap tenfold the misery in the years to come.

The time to condemn Pres. Trump will come when Mr. Mueller releases his report. Save your indignation for then. Right now most of the day-by-day revelations seem to concern the counterintelligence operation, hence that burner is presently on high. Don't feel you have to close your eyes, plug your ears, and dismiss the right's concerns because sharing them will somehow detract from any upcoming revelations about Pres. Trump. It's not a zero sum game.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 10:56:51 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jun 4, 2018 10:51:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I gauge the amount of shit Trump is stepping in based on his tweets.

This morning, he tweeted that he has the 'absolute right to PARDON myself.'

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-has-power-to-pardon-himself-but-has-%E2%80%98done-nothing-wrong%E2%80%99/ar-AAydhCa

Although he claims he doesn't need to, because he hasn't done anything wrong.

Next step will be to go ahead and give himself a blanket pardon 'although I haven't done anything wrong' so we can stop with the 'witch hunt' and get back to business.

If he does, how many of the GOP congress people will continue to sit there passively, pretending not to notice that the president's hair is on fire, and how many of them will grow the balls to push back?

My guess is some, but not very many.  It reminds me of the parable of the frog in a pot of warming water.  As the temp gradually increases the frog doesn't realize he is being cooked alive until it is too late.
These GOP politicians are even worse.  As the moral degradation increases they gradually accept it until they lose all sense of not only decency, but ethics and the Law itself.  I wouldn't have thought they would have gone on this long with a "straight face".

The story about the frog in the pot is apocryphal, actually. A frog will jump out of warming water long before it boils to death.

[happyhoix]

Jun 4, 2018 10:57:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

Trump and Rudi have become delusional. They act more like residents of a locked ward dementia unit than knowledgeable public servants.

 

Everything Rudi is currently claiming is legal for a president to do, he claimed presidents couldn't do, back when Clinton was being impeached.  Evaporates his believability.

He should have retired from the public eye when he still had a good reputation. Now he's made the unfortunate mistake of becoming Trump's court jester, which is a sad end for a good career.

 

[Opti]

Virgil, I don't think the US Intelligence agencies were involved with the Russia lawyer meeting. Wasn't that through a singer promoter that Trump knew? If you want to blame anyone for a setup, it would be whoever met with Papadopolous early on, not the Russian lawyer meeting.

(I probably misspelled that. Papa Smurf is so much easier to type. )

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 11:28:42 GMT -5 Opti said:

Virgil, I don't think the US Intelligence agencies were involved with the Russia lawyer meeting. Wasn't that through a singer promoter that Trump knew? If you want to blame anyone for a setup, it would be whoever met with Papadopolous early on, not the Russian lawyer meeting.

(I probably misspelled that. Papa Smurf is so much easier to type. )

Let me put it this way: if the claims about the Russian lawyer meeting with Fusion GPS immediately before and after the Trump Tower meeting are true (and I admittedly have neither the time nor the will to scrutinize them), my conclusion, until new evidence proves otherwise, is that Mr. Trump Jr. was set up.

By whom specifically, I have no idea. I do suspect we shall find out before all is said and done, however.

[happyhoix]

Jun 4, 2018 11:18:42 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 4, 2018 7:46:03 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

You keep saying that, then aligning yourself with the party that has knowingly, chronically lied from the very outset of the campaign, and then spent a good deal of time denying that they lied, until backed into a corner, when they grudgingly admitted they lied, but then changed the dialogue to come up with a good reason for the lie, or to pretend the lie didn't really matter.

Remember Trump St kept insisting he didn't know about the Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr and the Russians? That was just a meeting to talk about adoptions? Trump Sr insisting he didn't assist in writing the memo that supposedly came from Trump Jr about that meeting?

The WH is finally admitting that was a lie. Trump Sr wrote the memo that supposedly came from Trump Jr - and then lied about it. But their new argument is, it doesn't matter anyway, because the President can't be indicted. Or, as Giuliani said, the President could shoot Comey in the Oval Office and not be indicted for it.

slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/lawyers-admit-trump-dictated-response-to-trump-tower-meeting-despite-denials.html

(Of course, this might screw of Trump Jr, who testified he and he alone wrote the memo in testimony to Congress).

Now that Trump finally admitted he knew about the Trump Tower meeting, and that he wrote the memo supposedly written by Trump Jr, his new strategy seems to be to bluff the public by claiming the president can't be indicted - which is, interestingly enough, the exact opposite of what Giuliani was saying back when Clinton was being impeached. And these are the guys you trust more than the DOJ?

If you want me to believe Pres. Trump is a liar and crooked, you needn't bother: I agree with you. They apparently set Mr. Trump Jr. up with a sting, he took the bait, he involved his father, and both lied to conceal their misbehaviour. Perhaps Mr. Mueller will indict Mr. Trump Jr. as a result, although I doubt it.

But your defense of the agency conduct is a toxic mixture of tu quoque and ends justifying the means, and the precedent you'd be setting curdles the blood.

It's perfectly possible to condemn both sides. It's not a zero sum game. You claim that I'm "aligning yourself with the party" of thus-and-such betrays America's dialectical thinking that this is somehow a war to determine who is in the wrong, and only one side can win. I'm sorry but both Pres. Trump and agency actors can lie, distort, conceal, and abuse power independently, and they ought to be judged independently. If you consent to the ends justifying the means "just this once", you'll reap tenfold the misery in the years to come.

The time to condemn Pres. Trump will come when Mr. Mueller releases his report. Save your indignation for then. Right now most of the day-by-day revelations seem to concern the counterintelligence operation, hence that burner is presently on high. Don't feel you have to close your eyes, plug your ears, and dismiss the right's concerns because sharing them will somehow detract from any upcoming revelations about Pres. Trump. It's not a zero sum game.

No, no they did not.

This is a lie being spread by Trumpettes to dilute the fact that Trump Jr (and possibly his dad) behaved in a treasonous manner. How much less 'bad' it looks when you claim the rotten Dems and blackhat DOJ employees dangled that sweet Russian agent in front of them.

After all, if they did set up a sting to 'catch' Trump Jr being treasonous on June 2016, why the hell didn't they leak that tasty morsel to the press BEFORE the election? Or better yet, trot out the traitor Comey to give a press conference to discuss the Trump Jr meeting, if they're the ones who set up the meeting?

Why wait until July 2017, AFTER the election, to let that bombshell drop?

The answer is there is either a nefarious massive dark hole/black matter organization run by Obama and Hillary, the Jews and various other riff raff that were so incredibly bungling that they let their stooge Comey publically announce that more Clinton emails had come to light just 10 days prior to the election, but they prevented him from announcing that the FBI had evidence that Russia had tried to influence the election prior to the election - both gaffes that benefited Trump and harmed Clinton. Plus, they set up an elaborate sting operation to lure Trump Jr into meeting with a Russian operative and yet FAILED TO MAKE THAT PUBLIC prior to the election - something else that greatly harmed Clinton and greatly helped Trump. How could just a powerful international cabal prove to be so disorganized and clumsy?

If that option is too much of a stretch, the second option is that there is no massive dark hole/black thought organization at all, just a pack of government bureaucrats, sometimes bumbling, sometimes partisan, sometimes doing some questionable shit (just watch Wormwood for proof of that), but mostly, honest people attempting to do their jobs well, and who are now being denigrated by a president trying desperately to throw up some kind of smoke screen to obscure the fact that his campaign did anything they could do to win, including some treasonous shit, and now they're getting backed into a corner. Which is why Trump and his toadies have recently started talking about pardons and how Trump can't be forced to talk to the committee.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 11:49:40 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jun 4, 2018 11:20:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The story about the frog in the pot is apocryphal, actually. A frog will jump out of warming water long before it boils to death.

Well of course it is!  But it is such a good parable about incrementalism.  Plus, as the frog enjoys the mild water I put a heavy lid on the pot before it got uncomfortable for him. 

Frankly I find YMAM's "Trump is in trouble now! Oh boy! Here it comes! Just you wait! Any minute now!" as Baghdad Bob-ish as the right's "The Mueller investigation is in its death throes! Trump's enemies are scattering like roaches! Here comes the pain! Any moment now! It's a-comin'!"

You guys both realize that you can preemptively claim "victory" as boldly and as frequently as you want, it's not going to affect the outcome of the various investigations one whit?

If you were warriors psyching yourself up to go into battle, some irrational exuberance might help you to prevail, but on a message board, as I've said several times before, it makes for a surreal atmosphere. I'm think of coining the term "The Mittmentum Effect" and authoring a whitepaper about the effects of protracted political discourse on the human brain.

[Opti]

Virgil, you obviously interpret posts very differently than I do. While I see people opining Trump must be in trouble because of what he's doing, I see no any minute now stuff that you seem to see.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 11:53:05 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

After all, if they did set up a sting to 'catch' Trump Jr being treasonous on June 2016, why the hell didn't they leak that tasty morsel to the press BEFORE the election? Or better yet, trot out the traitor Comey to give a press conference to discuss the Trump Jr meeting, if they're the ones who set up the meeting?

Unlike Paul, I'm not convinced the agency actors were the ones to set up the sting. Even if they were, I don't believe they were bound by any timeline except possibly Pres. Trump's inauguration.

All I know is that if the timeline is accurate, I can't think of any plausible reason for the lawyer to meet with Fusion GPS (of all people on Earth) before and after the meeting in the tower that doesn't involve skullduggery. If you want to believe it's a fantastic coincidence, I can't disprove this.

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2018 12:10:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Virgil, you obviously interpret posts very differently than I do. While I see people opining Trump must be in trouble because of what he's doing, I see no any minute now stuff that you seem to see.

Seems to be a common occurrence.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 4, 2018 12:15:52 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jun 4, 2018 11:53:05 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

After all, if they did set up a sting to 'catch' Trump Jr being treasonous on June 2016, why the hell didn't they leak that tasty morsel to the press BEFORE the election? Or better yet, trot out the traitor Comey to give a press conference to discuss the Trump Jr meeting, if they're the ones who set up the meeting?

Unlike Paul, I'm not convinced the agency actors were the ones to set up the sting. Even if they were, I don't believe they were bound by any timeline except possibly Pres. Trump's inauguration.

All I know is that if the timeline is accurate, I can't think of any plausible reason for the lawyer to meet with Fusion GPS (of all people on Earth) before and after the meeting in the tower that doesn't involve skullduggery. If you want to believe it's a fantastic coincidence, I can't disprove this.

ANOTHER story just blew up.

George Papadopoulos was NOT "drunk" and "blabbing". This story is no longer operative. 

We now know the SOURCE of the Russian emails (which occurred OUTSIDE normal State Department channels) was Austrailian Ambassador, Alexander Downer. 

DOH! Screwed again! 

This is a very serious matter, and the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth hate-filled anti-Trump maniacs had better take a giant step back from the ledge and stop this assault on the legitimacy of elections just because they're upset that they lost.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jun 4, 2018 12:10:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Virgil, you obviously interpret posts very differently than I do. While I see people opining Trump must be in trouble because of what he's doing, I see no any minute now stuff that you seem to see.

Comments like, "The more somebody posts, the more I know that Mr. Trump is in deep doo doo.", "I gauge the amount of shit Trump is stepping in based on his tweets.", "As the temp gradually increases the frog doesn't realize he is being cooked alive until it is too late.", etc.

The "any minute now" is more a reflection of the fact that we've seen these same comments for the past 18 months.

There hasn't been a solitary month where Pres. Trump hasn't been up to his eyeballs in angry tweets. He seems to revel in it. If we include the election, we've accumulated 2.5 years of evidence that the man's successes and setbacks aren't correlated with the fervency of his twitting and tweeting.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

www.cnbc.com/2016/10/24/clinton-calls-trump-a-sore-loser.html

[Tennesseer]

Jun 4, 2018 12:28:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jun 4, 2018 12:15:52 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Unlike Paul, I'm not convinced the agency actors were the ones to set up the sting. Even if they were, I don't believe they were bound by any timeline except possibly Pres. Trump's inauguration.

All I know is that if the timeline is accurate, I can't think of any plausible reason for the lawyer to meet with Fusion GPS (of all people on Earth) before and after the meeting in the tower that doesn't involve skullduggery. If you want to believe it's a fantastic coincidence, I can't disprove this.

ANOTHER story just blew up.

George Papadopoulos was NOT "drunk" and "blabbing". This story is no longer operative. 

We now know the SOURCE of the Russian emails (which occurred OUTSIDE normal State Department channels) was Austrailian Ambassador, Alexander Downer. 

DOH! Screwed again! 

This is a very serious matter, and the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth hate-filled anti-Trump maniacs had better take a giant step back from the ledge and stop this assault on the legitimacy of elections just because they're upset that they lost.

Did The Conservative Treehouse just give Papadopoulos a breathalyzer test right before they wrote the news to prove he was sober in May, 2016?

[Virgil Showlion]

GAH! I'm getting out of here before I go insane like the rest of you!

Bananas! Banana nna nanana ananana anana

Ba na! NANA NAN BA NA NNNAAAA!

Does not compute BANANA!

Does not compute BANANA!

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[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]