Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 6, 2017 7:07:56 GMT -5
Sad way to go - alone in a box. What if someone puts someone already unconscious in the box? I think it's just creepy, It is creepy and a reason I haven't watched several important films yet.
Lets not get caught up in a possible method and instead concentrate on the idea and the best ways perhaps for society to implement it. Or not.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Dec 6, 2017 7:49:27 GMT -5
I think its abhorrent.
What about better mental health care?
Many people go through a crisis in their lives....and almost all of them get better. Its curable.
This just means people will be killing themselves when they could have been helped to get better.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 6, 2017 8:20:11 GMT -5
Sad way to go - alone in a box.What if someone puts someone already unconscious in the box? I think it's just creepy, Hmmm, had to give this some thought since we are talking suicide. Friends nephew sat on his bed put a gun in his mouth and blew his brains all over the wall and ceiling. Don't think he invited anyone to be with him so he wouldn't be alone.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 6, 2017 9:24:58 GMT -5
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
And this may be the real difference between many with the conservative mindset versus the liberal mindset. Some conservatives become so convinced their way is the only way. They are so convinced they will fight for laws, for wars, and even for bragging rights at holiday family dinners. I bolded in orange, that conservative mindset.
KittenSaver said it beautifully and it reminds me of what I've seen recently on this board. In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that. So while yes the knee jerk conservatives look at the other and think evil, etc. almost all the time, most liberals do not do the same.
Or to put it in a more simple way. I think some conservatives look at the world that does not think like them and say 50% of you are wrong and must be eliminated. I like to think that most liberals (think coexist signs) believe the majority are OK and we just have to worry about the hardcore outliers. They look at the world and say less than 10% of you are really really wrong, and how can we as a society fix this with minimal bloodshed? And I'm thankful the latter is energized and prevalent. I love the new Johnny Walker ads. I like how the Beauty community has embraced diversity the more this WH administration does not.
Smart well said... " In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that"
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 6, 2017 9:51:49 GMT -5
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
And this may be the real difference between many with the conservative mindset versus the liberal mindset. Some conservatives become so convinced their way is the only way. They are so convinced they will fight for laws, for wars, and even for bragging rights at holiday family dinners. I bolded in orange, that conservative mindset.
KittenSaver said it beautifully and it reminds me of what I've seen recently on this board. In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that. So while yes the knee jerk conservatives look at the other and think evil, etc. almost all the time, most liberals do not do the same.
Or to put it in a more simple way. I think some conservatives look at the world that does not think like them and say 50% of you are wrong and must be eliminated.* I like to think that most liberals (think coexist signs) believe the majority are OK and we just have to worry about the hardcore outliers. They look at the world and say less than 10% of you are really really wrong, and how can we as a society fix this with minimal bloodshed? And I'm thankful the latter is energized and prevalent. I love the new Johnny Walker ads. I like how the Beauty community has embraced diversity the more this WH administration does not.
* "By. Any. Means. Necessary."
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 6, 2017 9:58:05 GMT -5
Sad way to go - alone in a box.What if someone puts someone already unconscious in the box? I think it's just creepy, Hmmm, had to give this some thought since we are talking suicide. Friends nephew sat on his bed put a gun in his mouth and blew his brains all over the wall and ceiling. Don't think he invited anyone to be with him so he wouldn't be alone. Suicide IMO is about being in massive psychic pain and wanting it to be over. We all know that doing the above will work and is quick. Its very similar to what soldiers and others do to execute people.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 6, 2017 10:04:29 GMT -5
And this may be the real difference between many with the conservative mindset versus the liberal mindset. Some conservatives become so convinced their way is the only way. They are so convinced they will fight for laws, for wars, and even for bragging rights at holiday family dinners. I bolded in orange, that conservative mindset.
KittenSaver said it beautifully and it reminds me of what I've seen recently on this board. In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that. So while yes the knee jerk conservatives look at the other and think evil, etc. almost all the time, most liberals do not do the same.
Or to put it in a more simple way. I think some conservatives look at the world that does not think like them and say 50% of you are wrong and must be eliminated.* I like to think that most liberals (think coexist signs) believe the majority are OK and we just have to worry about the hardcore outliers. They look at the world and say less than 10% of you are really really wrong, and how can we as a society fix this with minimal bloodshed? And I'm thankful the latter is energized and prevalent. I love the new Johnny Walker ads. I like how the Beauty community has embraced diversity the more this WH administration does not.
* "By. Any. Means. Necessary." Exactly one of the posts I was thinking about.
Movie Recommendations of the moment-
Joseph & Mary starring Kevin Sorbo and his wife (Good reminder about taxes and political upheaval during the life of Joseph & Mary and Jesus.) The Glass Castle (Haven't seen it yet, but read the book on a recommendation by a volunteer at the food pantry. I remember thinking the colored markers with socks was pure genius. One story that shows why someone growing up poor may choose to be uber successful.)
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 6, 2017 10:47:39 GMT -5
I've been doing some research on the laws in Belgium related to this subject. There's nobody in the streets dragging people in to commit suicide. At present, the majority of those who choose this course of action suffer from terminal cancer.There are laws to regulate it and it is assisted suicide (not done by the patient him/herself). Usual method is barbiturate overdose. Some other European countries, and Canada, apparently allow self-administered suicide once approved. I haven't had time to complete my research regarding these countries but I'll try to do so. When I've gathered some relevant data, I'll share the links here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2017 10:58:21 GMT -5
Nope, the problem is: you expecting everyone to embrace YOUR definition of 'morality.'
Here is a statement that does not trouble me at all: "I can't do that because my moral code (religion) won't let me."
Here is a statement that troubles me greatly: "YOU can't do that because MY moral code (religion) won't let you."
And this may be the real difference between many with the conservative mindset versus the liberal mindset. Some conservatives become so convinced their way is the only way. They are so convinced they will fight for laws, for wars, and even for bragging rights at holiday family dinners. I bolded in orange, that conservative mindset.
KittenSaver said it beautifully and it reminds me of what I've seen recently on this board. In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that. So while yes the knee jerk conservatives look at the other and think evil, etc. almost all the time, most liberals do not do the same.
Or to put it in a more simple way. I think some conservatives look at the world that does not think like them and say 50% of you are wrong and must be eliminated. I like to think that most liberals (think coexist signs) believe the majority are OK and we just have to worry about the hardcore outliers. They look at the world and say less than 10% of you are really really wrong, and how can we as a society fix this with minimal bloodshed? And I'm thankful the latter is energized and prevalent. I love the new Johnny Walker ads. I like how the Beauty community has embraced diversity the more this WH administration does not.
I see the exact opposite so it depends on our experiences with people.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 6, 2017 11:14:01 GMT -5
I think it can be a temporary issue but not always. I don’t worry anymore about dying because my kids are adults and will be okay. I don’t want to die a slow horrible death but I honestly don’t care if my life ends. I miss DH and want to be with him. I won’t actively seek to end my life but I won’t do anything to stop it happening either, naturally. I won’t be a victim of some raping murderer if I can help it but if it happens, oh well. Based on the statistics, tens of millions of people in the US contemplate suicide each year. Stress, ennui, illness, loneliness, lack of purpose, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, disability, the belief that nobody loves them, the belief they'd be better off dead, and simple depression. Think me a judgmental son of a gun, but I say: what a loss and a waste when even one of these people chooses suicide as a would-be solution and carries it out. You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 6, 2017 11:50:41 GMT -5
One of my dad's friend's died a long painful death from Lou Gehrig's disease. What a horrible way to go, suffocate slowly while your brain knows exactly what is going on.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 6, 2017 11:57:42 GMT -5
One of my dad's friend's died a long painful death from Lou Gehrig's disease. What a horrible way to go, suffocate slowly while your brain knows exactly what is going on. cancer can be like this, too. lots of diseases can be slow and painful. faced with 1, 5, or 10 years of agony, why would one NOT consider suicide?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 6, 2017 12:01:04 GMT -5
Based on the statistics, tens of millions of people in the US contemplate suicide each year. Stress, ennui, illness, loneliness, lack of purpose, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, disability, the belief that nobody loves them, the belief they'd be better off dead, and simple depression. Think me a judgmental son of a gun, but I say: what a loss and a waste when even one of these people chooses suicide as a would-be solution and carries it out. You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
My mother had ALzheimer's disease. In her rare lucid moments, she would state she knew she was in trouble and asked to be euthanized. The law said no. I was happy for mom when she died.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 6, 2017 12:08:47 GMT -5
And this may be the real difference between many with the conservative mindset versus the liberal mindset. Some conservatives become so convinced their way is the only way. They are so convinced they will fight for laws, for wars, and even for bragging rights at holiday family dinners. I bolded in orange, that conservative mindset.
KittenSaver said it beautifully and it reminds me of what I've seen recently on this board. In general conservatives feel everyone thinks like them or like a generic evil opposite bin. On the other hand, most liberals realize not everyone thinks like them and makes allowances for that. So while yes the knee jerk conservatives look at the other and think evil, etc. almost all the time, most liberals do not do the same.
Or to put it in a more simple way. I think some conservatives look at the world that does not think like them and say 50% of you are wrong and must be eliminated. I like to think that most liberals (think coexist signs) believe the majority are OK and we just have to worry about the hardcore outliers. They look at the world and say less than 10% of you are really really wrong, and how can we as a society fix this with minimal bloodshed? And I'm thankful the latter is energized and prevalent. I love the new Johnny Walker ads. I like how the Beauty community has embraced diversity the more this WH administration does not.
I see the exact opposite so it depends on our experiences with people. For the most part, right-wing and/or social conservatives say, "You're wrong, and you are so far wrong that we can't let you do that! Our way is the only right way. Do that, or be that, but you can't do what you want. It's wrong." Liberals, with the possible exception of some far-left-wing who are not really liberals, will say, "I think you're wrong, but you have the right to be wrong as long as you do not force it on the rest of us. Keep it to yourselves, and we're good." Liberals don't care what conservatives do in their own lives. Liberals don't tell conservatives who they can marry. Liberals don't tell conservatives they can't go to whatever church they want, or any at all. When asked, liberals will celebrate conservatives' right to make their own choice. What they will fight against is conservatives attempting to dictate everyone else's choice. Why do conservatives care what others do in their own lives? As long as you are not harming anyone else, liberals don't care. Why do conservatives?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2017 12:13:16 GMT -5
Really? I’ve been unfriended and people stopped talking to me when I said I don’t worship at the hillary alter. That automatically meant I supported trump and nothing I said made a difference. Now I have friends on both sides who probably think I’m misguided but like me anyway. The others? No real loss.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 6, 2017 12:23:25 GMT -5
It's not our fault if you have (or had) stupid friends, but then again, haven't you said here that you believe in all of the conspiracy theories about her and her husband? If you told them that too, that might be part of it.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 6, 2017 12:25:39 GMT -5
You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
My mother had ALzheimer's disease. In her rare lucid moments, she would state she knew she was in trouble and asked to be euthanized. The law said no. I was happy for mom when she died.
I felt that way about both my parents. People would be shocked when I said I was glad they finally were able to die, and they would say "Oh, but you'll miss them" - I grieved for them years before they actually physically left, and grieved for them the whole time they sat slumped in their wheelchairs, slack jawed and vacant. When they finally died, it was like they were released from prison. I could finally be happy for them. It's a shitty thing to put people through.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2017 12:28:49 GMT -5
It's not our fault if you have (or had) stupid friends, but then again, haven't you said here that you believe in all of the conspiracy theories about her and her husband? If you told them that too, that might be part of it. I don’t discuss politics with my friends, good way to lose them. I do think hillary is rotten to the core but most successful politicians are. Even a lot of successful people stepped on a lot of others on their way up.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2017 12:29:29 GMT -5
My mother had ALzheimer's disease. In her rare lucid moments, she would state she knew she was in trouble and asked to be euthanized. The law said no. I was happy for mom when she died.
I felt that way about both my parents. People would be shocked when I said I was glad they finally were able to die, and they would say "Oh, but you'll miss them" - I grieved for them years before they actually physically left, and grieved for them the whole time they sat slumped in their wheelchairs, slack jawed and vacant. When they finally died, it was like they were released from prison. I could finally be happy for them. It's a shitty thing to put people through.
Kinder to our animals than our loved ones.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 6, 2017 12:51:17 GMT -5
One of my dad's friend's died a long painful death from Lou Gehrig's disease. What a horrible way to go, suffocate slowly while your brain knows exactly what is going on. That's another disease I recall reading was high on the list of sufferers requesting euthanasia.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 6, 2017 13:30:12 GMT -5
Based on the statistics, tens of millions of people in the US contemplate suicide each year. Stress, ennui, illness, loneliness, lack of purpose, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, disability, the belief that nobody loves them, the belief they'd be better off dead, and simple depression. Think me a judgmental son of a gun, but I say: what a loss and a waste when even one of these people chooses suicide as a would-be solution and carries it out. You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating]
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 6, 2017 13:57:00 GMT -5
You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating] They don't live in a dream world. My parents, and many of the residents at the assisted living facility where my mom lived the last years of her life, were confused and angry most of the time. My mom, especially, was in a lot of pain from painful joints, massive swelling in her legs and feet, and chronic UTI infections.
There were some that we so far into the disease progression that they were essentially inert and almost vegetative - not sure if they felt pain or distress but were unable to express it or if they were completely oblivious - but most of the residents at my Mom's home were not.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 6, 2017 14:01:07 GMT -5
Ugh. How awful.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 6, 2017 14:17:18 GMT -5
You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating] There are many kinds of Alzheimer's and Dementia. Some of them have physical suffering including hands and limbs that clench up and stiffen. (Much worse than arthritis). There's no one path unless of course you think there is only one path for cancer. Plus it is quite mentally painful for those who know they are losing bits of their brain function, which I think is the majority from time to time. (From my experiences, especially work.)
As always, YMMV. MO. <Insert disclaimer here>
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 6, 2017 14:27:25 GMT -5
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating] They don't live in a dream world. My parents, and many of the residents at the assisted living facility where my mom lived the last years of her life, were confused and angry most of the time. My mom, especially, was in a lot of pain from painful joints, massive swelling in her legs and feet, and chronic UTI infections.
There were some that we so far into the disease progression that they were essentially inert and almost vegetative - not sure if they felt pain or distress but were unable to express it or if they were completely oblivious - but most of the residents at my Mom's home were not.
Gotcha...learn something every day and from what u and the next person told me..possible even more reason for humane ways of moving on....
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 6, 2017 14:35:03 GMT -5
You must not have ever watched someone you love die from Alzheimer's/dementia. Both my parents went that way, and it was a horrible, long, drawn out death.
Obviously, suicide should not be encouraged. Drug addiction shouldn't be encouraged, either, but we don't tell people suffering from chronic pain that they have to suck it up and dea with it, because opioids are bad and some people become addicts.
Any suicide laws I've seen require a person to be evaluated to screen out those people who are dealing with a temporary crisis or medical condition that could be cured/improved. But to take someone like my mom, who was no longer aware of who she was or where she was, no longer able to walk, or to transition from her wheelchair to the toilet, no longer continent, suffering from heart, disease, diabetes, OCD and kidney failure, in chronic pain, and confused /angry all the time because she didn't know who all these strangers around her were, and say it's not a blessing to allow her to simply fall asleep is a person without empathy or kindness.
Since both my parents went that way my chances are good I'll end up that way, too, and I don't like most suicide options because there is a chance they may not work, so I might end up even more disabled and trapped in a mental ward hospital bed, under our current legal system. My plan at this point is to relocate to a state that allows assisted suicide, when my time comes.
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating] No, Dezi, these folks are not in a "dream world". They're in a world they can't understand and which often frightens them. They have bursts of cognizance where they know their brains aren't functioning properly. They realize the person standing in front of them is someone they should know but don't. They know the thing they're eating has a name but they don't know what it is. Some become very paranoid. Others become very angry - sometimes violent. If that's a "dream world" the "dreams" associated with it are nightmares. What might be bearable to you might not be bearable to someone else. Additionally, Alzheimer's progresses and will ultimately result in the victim forgetting how to eat, how to speak, even how to breathe. Before you pass something like Alzheimer's off so easily you need to educate yourself a bit better.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 6, 2017 15:01:23 GMT -5
I am not sure if this is true or not, in fact the jury may be out on this but when it comes to Alzheimers/Dementia...it seems those folks are in a dream world, not in pain....therefore not really suffering....thus to hasten their demise ..why? If it was me and all I am doing is in a dream world and not uncomfortable ...well..It's when my body can't function..bad stroke as a example, but mind is still fine...but unable to move and stuff...that's when I believe better to go...[my choice of course...not State so mandating] No, Dezi, these folks are not in a "dream world". They're in a world they can't understand and which often frightens them. They have bursts of cognizance where they know their brains aren't functioning properly. They realize the person standing in front of them is someone they should know but don't. They know the thing they're eating has a name but they don't know what it is. Some become very paranoid. Others become very angry - sometimes violent. If that's a "dream world" the "dreams" associated with it are nightmares. What might be bearable to you might not be bearable to someone else. Additionally, Alzheimer's progresses and will ultimately result in the victim forgetting how to eat, how to speak, even how to breathe. Before you pass something like Alzheimer's off so easily you need to educate yourself a bit better. Ok but no reason to talk down to me...I DID NOT KNOW...ok, now I do...I wasn't patronizing...just stating what I thought was a possibility..and now know I was wrong..Actually I believe I am not alone in my thinking on this topic...and nothing u are all saying is "bearable" to me , actually the opposite of...and I was not passing Alzheimers off so easily...again...JUST DIDN'T KNOW... and your dissing me on my ignorance of the disease is not appreciated...I know u hate being called out ever...but on your attack on me because of my not knowing is not called for..Believe u are or where in the field of medicine, patient care..I was not...
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 6, 2017 15:41:16 GMT -5
No, Dezi, these folks are not in a "dream world". They're in a world they can't understand and which often frightens them. They have bursts of cognizance where they know their brains aren't functioning properly. They realize the person standing in front of them is someone they should know but don't. They know the thing they're eating has a name but they don't know what it is. Some become very paranoid. Others become very angry - sometimes violent. If that's a "dream world" the "dreams" associated with it are nightmares. What might be bearable to you might not be bearable to someone else. Additionally, Alzheimer's progresses and will ultimately result in the victim forgetting how to eat, how to speak, even how to breathe. Before you pass something like Alzheimer's off so easily you need to educate yourself a bit better. Ok but no reason to talk down to me...I DID NOT KNOW...ok, now I do...I wasn't patronizing...just stating what I thought was a possibility..and now know I was wrong..Actually I believe I am not alone in my thinking on this topic...and nothing u are all saying is "bearable" to me , actually the opposite of...and I was not passing Alzheimers off so easily...again...JUST DIDN'T KNOW... and your dissing me on my ignorance of the disease is not appreciated...I know u hate being called out ever...but on your attack on me because of my not knowing is not called for..Believe u are or where in the field of medicine, patient care..I was not... I'm sorry you took my post that way, Dezi. I wasn't patronizing you and I wasn't "dissing" you. I certainly wasn't attacking you. I was just encouraging you to do some research on the subject. There's a lot of information available and it's a condition nobody can be sure they'll not have to deal with - either for someone they love, or for themselves.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 6, 2017 15:43:33 GMT -5
No, Dezi, these folks are not in a "dream world". They're in a world they can't understand and which often frightens them. They have bursts of cognizance where they know their brains aren't functioning properly. They realize the person standing in front of them is someone they should know but don't. They know the thing they're eating has a name but they don't know what it is. Some become very paranoid. Others become very angry - sometimes violent. If that's a "dream world" the "dreams" associated with it are nightmares. What might be bearable to you might not be bearable to someone else. Additionally, Alzheimer's progresses and will ultimately result in the victim forgetting how to eat, how to speak, even how to breathe. Before you pass something like Alzheimer's off so easily you need to educate yourself a bit better. Ok but no reason to talk down to me...I DID NOT KNOW...ok, now I do...I wasn't patronizing...just stating what I thought was a possibility..and now know I was wrong..Actually I believe I am not alone in my thinking on this topic...and nothing u are all saying is "bearable" to me , actually the opposite of...and I was not passing Alzheimers off so easily...again...JUST DIDN'T KNOW... and your dissing me on my ignorance of the disease is not appreciated...I know u hate being called out ever...but on your attack on me because of my not knowing is not called for..Believe u are or where in the field of medicine, patient care..I was not... It might be better to do a search on your own first, or to ask an actual question rather than give an uninformed opinion. People will forgive ignorance if it is accompanied by an interest in learning. Not so much if it isn't.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Dec 6, 2017 15:46:29 GMT -5
Ok but no reason to talk down to me...I DID NOT KNOW...ok, now I do...I wasn't patronizing...just stating what I thought was a possibility..and now know I was wrong..Actually I believe I am not alone in my thinking on this topic...and nothing u are all saying is "bearable" to me , actually the opposite of...and I was not passing Alzheimers off so easily...again...JUST DIDN'T KNOW... and your dissing me on my ignorance of the disease is not appreciated...I know u hate being called out ever...but on your attack on me because of my not knowing is not called for..Believe u are or where in the field of medicine, patient care..I was not... I'm sorry you took my post that way, Dezi. I wasn't patronizing you and I wasn't "dissing" you. I certainly wasn't attacking you. I was just encouraging you to do some research on the subject. There's a lot of information available and it's a condition nobody can be sure they'll not have to deal with - either for someone they love, or for themselves. ok mmhmm... ....as said, just didn't know...and as said, now that I know it's something I can only hope I never encounter..I had a Uncle who was affected...he lived into his 90's at his daughters home and I saw him from time to time...luckily he always seemed at peace...but as I said...now aware ...
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