Is President Trump a multi billionaire after all?

[Value Buy]

Remember during the election cycle, people from both parties questioned whether he lied about his actual wealth value, and he was accused of not being nearly as wealthy as he claimed.
Some on the democratic side even claimed he was broke.
Evidently not.
Now, "The Hill" claims this new tax law will save him and his heirs over a billion dollars in tax savings.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nbc-analysis-gop-tax-plan-could-save-trump-and-his-family-more-than-dollar1-billion/ar-BBF3Bmr?li=BBnb7Kz

C'mon people, you cannot have it both ways.
Either you were deceitful about his lack of wealth, or you are deceitful now.

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle

[Deleted]

His one 2005 return we have would have saved him 31 million. So maybe after a few years he’ll reach it? 

It also says him and his heirs... he’s not the only one in the family that has income and pays taxes...

[Value Buy]

Nov 17, 2017 5:49:12 GMT -5 oped said:

His one 2005 return we have would have saved him 31 million. So maybe after a few years he’ll reach it? 

It also says him and his heirs... he’s not the only one in the family that has income and pays taxes...

But, but, but, this article claims it saves him over a billion dollars.........
I also stated it was both him and his heirs, not just him.

Myself, I am retired and living off SS, a small pension, and soon, the IRA'S, and look forward to a lower marginal rate so I do not have to withdraw more funds to pay the Feds every year on April 1st.
What most people do not realize about 401-ks, and the Ira's is if you need $50,000 a year (arbitrary number) or your minimum withdrawl after you turn 71 1/2 it can cause you to withdraw even more money to pay the tax man, both the Federal and state taxes, thus lowering your retirement balances even faster than planned.
Does this affect millionaires and billionaires? Nope.
Does it affect the middle class taxpayer in retirement?
You betcha!

[Deleted]

Trump claimed 10 billion.. this assessment says 2...   there is nothing incompatible. 

If he’d let his financials be known, you wouldn’t need to speculate. 

I think most people realize that how much you need in a year includes paying taxes...

[Value Buy]

Nov 17, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -5 oped said:

Trump claimed 10 billion.. this assessment says 2...   there is nothing incompatible. 

If he’d let his financials be known, you wouldn’t need to speculate. 

I think most people realize that how much you need in a year includes paying taxes...

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

[Deleted]

I’m honestly not sure? I’m not sure what the plan will actually be? Ironically this is the first year state/local taxes might be useful to me?  The bigger standard is ok as I’m losing kids... but honestly I’ve never assessed a tax plan on just what might immediately give me personally a few dollars... I’m a long term systems person myself.

I know personally I make out with no estate tax some day. That doesn’t mean I’m for it... but hey, if that’s what ‘the people’ want.. 

For Trump to get a 32 million tax break, and an average to be 4K... 8000 families get no break.

Senate plan is worse... 

dont get me started on paygo implications, or mandate repeal implications... or fetuses with 529 plan implications...

[busymom]

If Trump wants to avoid criticism, and speculation, he should release his tax returns.  Which he promised to do all along, but STILL hasn't.  Considering the fact that his decisions seem to be consistent with doing whatever benefits his company, AND his family, it's pretty safe to assume that he & his family would benefit from the tax law changes that the GOP is pushing.

[Opti]

Nov 17, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 17, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -5 oped said:

Trump claimed 10 billion.. this assessment says 2...   there is nothing incompatible. 

If he’d let his financials be known, you wouldn’t need to speculate. 

I think most people realize that how much you need in a year includes paying taxes...

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

I am not the left, and what little I've seen is people have both attacked Trump and his plan. Few have stayed exclusive to their "choice" much like when RWers, right leaners or whomever piled on Clinton (Hillary or Bill) and attacked the person more than the plan.

Return cycles can be a bitch, yes?

The media fixates on Billionaires because as a class it is #still true#. Individual billionaries? It depends, however, even Buffett allegedly takes his tax breaks and does not trickle equalization to his secretary.

I am not a married couple nor or most of those with income under $30K. Not having luck finding demographics. Maybe later this weekend? For now, here's some reality checks.

investmentwatchblog.com/40-percent-of-u-s-make-less-than-20000-the-fed-government-considers-a-family-of-4-making-less-than-24250-to-be-impoverished/

According to brand new numbers that were just released by the Social Security Administration, 51 percent of all workers in the United States make less than $30,000 a year. Let that number sink in for a moment. You can’t support a middle class family in America today on just $2,500 a month – especially after taxes are taken out. And yet more than half of all workers in this country make less than that each month

www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2014

(breakdown of income categories that support that 30K number. Assuming I am alive at year end,

I will finally break from category 15-19K to 20-24K based on lots of weeks working FT hours or better.  Though my recent downgrading of my hours, again, and new "set" schedule would easily keep me under 19K earned income. Summary: I am in the poor person category, maybe I am the SME on this board you should ask questions of. )

[Opti]

Nov 17, 2017 7:21:47 GMT -5 busymom said:

If Trump wants to avoid criticism, and speculation, he should release his tax returns.  Which he promised to do all along, but STILL hasn't.  Considering the fact that his decisions seem to be consistent with doing whatever benefits his company, AND his family, it's pretty safe to assume that he & his family would benefit from the tax law changes that the GOP is pushing.

I'd rather take the hit for what is, than what is not, but Trump probably knows he gets more benefit of the doubt beliefs from his base and others.

[busymom]

Nov 17, 2017 7:25:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 17, 2017 7:21:47 GMT -5 busymom said:

If Trump wants to avoid criticism, and speculation, he should release his tax returns.  Which he promised to do all along, but STILL hasn't.  Considering the fact that his decisions seem to be consistent with doing whatever benefits his company, AND his family, it's pretty safe to assume that he & his family would benefit from the tax law changes that the GOP is pushing.

I'd rather take the hit for what is, than what is not, but Trump probably knows he gets more benefit of the doubt beliefs from his base and others.

     Yes, that blind faith IS annoying, isn't it?  Always thought Trump was a snake oil salesman, but so many don't see it.  It's a shame, not only for the sheep who follow him unconditionally, but for our country as well.

[happyhoix]

Nov 17, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 17, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -5 oped said:

Trump claimed 10 billion.. this assessment says 2...   there is nothing incompatible. 

If he’d let his financials be known, you wouldn’t need to speculate. 

I think most people realize that how much you need in a year includes paying taxes...

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

There is evidence Trump had such bad business losses several years ago he hasn't paid taxes in years, which is why he won't release his tax forms. Remember how he bragged during the debates about how he works the system to avoid paying taxes? Why is the middle class paying their share when he doesn't?

I read a while ago about how much he's shafted NYC in property taxes. Something like 800,000 million dollars in taxes over the years from his various development properties where he negotiated tax reductions with the city.

I would love a tax plan that would close these kinds of loopholes so that the really wealthy can't wiggle out of paying taxes. The current proposal doesn't do that, but the GOP has been panicked into approving it because all the wealthy 1% GOP donors are threatening not to send them a penny more in donations if they don't pass it.

Gotta keep those donors happy.

[swamp]

Nov 17, 2017 7:54:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Nov 17, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

There is evidence Trump had such bad business losses several years ago he hasn't paid taxes in years, which is why he won't release his tax forms. Remember how he bragged during the debates about how he works the system to avoid paying taxes? Why is the middle class paying their share when he doesn't?

I read a while ago about how much he's shafted NYC in property taxes. Something like 800,000 million dollars in taxes over the years from his various development properties where he negotiated tax reductions with the city.

I would love a tax plan that would close these kinds of loopholes so that the really wealthy can't wiggle out of paying taxes. The current proposal doesn't do that, but the GOP has been panicked into approving it because all the wealthy 1% GOP donors are threatening not to send them a penny more in donations if they don't pass it.

Gotta keep those donors happy.

I think Trump is a complete douche, but i put the blame squarely on NYC for this one.  It takes 2 to negotiate.  

[dezii]

Nov 17, 2017 5:40:08 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Remember during the election cycle, people from both parties questioned whether he lied about his actual wealth value, and he was accused of not being nearly as wealthy as he claimed.
Some on the democratic side even claimed he was broke.
Evidently not.
Now, "The Hill" claims this new tax law will save him and his heirs over a billion dollars in tax savings.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nbc-analysis-gop-tax-plan-could-save-Trump-and-his-family-more-than-dollar1-billion/ar-BBF3Bmr?li=BBnb7Kz

C'mon people, you cannot have it both ways.
Either you were deceitful about his lack of wealth, or you are deceitful now.

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle

I believe he claimed 10 billion...but he is a known liar and is always trying tp push himself as more then he is...Forbes says...and it is recent..$3.1 BILLION...not shabby at all...$3,100, 000,000...lots of zeros and say a safe return of oh I don't know...say 5%....about $15 million per...nice to be comfortable...

[Opti]

Nov 17, 2017 9:48:13 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

My guess is his wealth fluctuates dramatically from year to year and it's hard to estimate beyond some very broad strokes. It also depends on who is doing the evaluating and for what purpose. He does remind me of the guy from Silicon Valley who freaks out when his NW falls below a billion.

This is one of those funny/not funny things. I have a feeling most folks in the 10% and above bracket fall into some version of this from time to time.

[Phoenix84]

I was wondering the same thing. During the campaign it was claimed Trump exaggerated his wealth and he really wasn’t that successful because it was convenient to the anti Trump narritave at the time. Now he’s an Uber billionaire again because it’s convenient to anti Trump narritave being peddled by much of the media today.

[bean29]

Nov 17, 2017 11:07:50 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I was wondering the same thing. During the campaign it was claimed Trump exaggerated his wealth and he really wasn’t that successful because it was convenient to the anti Trump narritave at the time. Now he’s an Uber billionaire again because it’s convenient to anti Trump narritave being peddled by much of the media today.

I really feel that the reason Trump won't release his tax returns is he is understating his income...He doesn't want every Tax Accountant in the country analyzing his tax return to see if he did everything the way he should have.

It is more likely that he understated his wealth than that he overstated it imho. 

If he doesn't want to release his tax returns, then he doesn't get to whine that the speculation on his wealth isn't going in the direction he currently wants it to go.

[tallguy]

Nov 17, 2017 5:40:08 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Remember during the election cycle, people from both parties questioned whether he lied about his actual wealth value, and he was accused of not being nearly as wealthy as he claimed.
Some on the democratic side even claimed he was broke.
Evidently not.
Now, "The Hill" claims this new tax law will save him and his heirs over a billion dollars in tax savings.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nbc-analysis-gop-tax-plan-could-save-Trump-and-his-family-more-than-dollar1-billion/ar-BBF3Bmr?li=BBnb7Kz

C'mon people, you cannot have it both ways.
Either you were deceitful about his lack of wealth, or you are deceitful now.

I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle

Where is the inconsistency?  Didn't Trump claim he was worth somewhere around $10 billion?  This article is using the estimated figure of $2.86 billion to come up with the $1.1 billion savings he would be giving himself.  Isn't that roughly the figure that those people who claimed Trump was overstating his wealth were using?

If Trump really is worth the $10 billion he claims, the elimination of the estate tax would save him over $3 billion by itself, assuming no tax planning that would escape it.  The deceit seems to be elsewhere, such as the misdirection in the OP.  

[Deleted]

Never said he wasn’t wealthy, just said he is a shitty businessperson matching half the return of the S&P 500 with his daddy’s seed money.

A great reality star however.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Nov 17, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 17, 2017 6:22:09 GMT -5 oped said:

Trump claimed 10 billion.. this assessment says 2...   there is nothing incompatible. 

If he’d let his financials be known, you wouldn’t need to speculate. 

I think most people realize that how much you need in a year includes paying taxes...

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

The tax cuts for average joes expires in 2026? How will you fare at that point?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

"First, let's look at the budget bill that the Republican Senate passed Thursday, which Trump is now publicly applauding. It would cut funding by $5 trillion over the next decade. And guess who would suffer the most from these cuts? Senior citizens, the poor and the disabled.
Here's why: The GOP Senate budget calls for "$473 billion in cuts from Medicare over 10 years." That would be a painful blow to the over 55 million Americans -- including my own mother, and maybe yours, too -- who depend on this very popular program to manage the cost of their health care."

www.cnn.com/2017/10/22/opinions/trump-tax-cuts-opinion-obeidallah/index.html

[dezii]

Nov 17, 2017 12:22:43 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Nov 17, 2017 11:07:50 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I was wondering the same thing. During the campaign it was claimed Trump exaggerated his wealth and he really wasn’t that successful because it was convenient to the anti Trump narritave at the time. Now he’s an Uber billionaire again because it’s convenient to anti Trump narritave being peddled by much of the media today.

I really feel that the reason Trump won't release his tax returns is he is understating his income...He doesn't want every Tax Accountant in the country analyzing his tax return to see if he did everything the way he should have.

It is more likely that he understated his wealth than that he overstated it imho. 

If he doesn't want to release his tax returns, then he doesn't get to whine that the speculation on his wealth isn't going in the direction he currently wants it to go.

I think he's afraid folks will see how little he gives in charitable contributions...possible also, deals, income, loans in Russia...

[teen persuasion]

Nov 17, 2017 13:26:43 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

"First, let's look at the budget bill that the Republican Senate passed Thursday, which Trump is now publicly applauding. It would cut funding by $5 trillion over the next decade. And guess who would suffer the most from these cuts? Senior citizens, the poor and the disabled.
Here's why: The GOP Senate budget calls for "$473 billion in cuts from Medicare over 10 years." That would be a painful blow to the over 55 million Americans -- including my own mother, and maybe yours, too -- who depend on this very popular program to manage the cost of their health care."

www.cnn.com/2017/10/22/opinions/Trump-tax-cuts-opinion-obeidallah/index.html

I thought it was the House that passed their deal, not the Senate.

I've been trying to follow the details, but there's so much back and forth and adds and drops of both plans overlapping that I'm still not sure what ended up in the House version.

My best guess is that we are exactly the same as under the current system, until the Family credits go poof in 2023.  Then the lack of personal exemptions and increased bracket rate jacks our taxes up.  My kids lose out, though, because they lose the student loan interest deduction, the teacher deduction, the LLL credit for grad school, ...

[tallguy]

Nov 18, 2017 13:42:05 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Nov 17, 2017 13:26:43 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

"First, let's look at the budget bill that the Republican Senate passed Thursday, which Trump is now publicly applauding. It would cut funding by $5 trillion over the next decade. And guess who would suffer the most from these cuts? Senior citizens, the poor and the disabled.
Here's why: The GOP Senate budget calls for "$473 billion in cuts from Medicare over 10 years." That would be a painful blow to the over 55 million Americans -- including my own mother, and maybe yours, too -- who depend on this very popular program to manage the cost of their health care."

www.cnn.com/2017/10/22/opinions/Trump-tax-cuts-opinion-obeidallah/index.html

I thought it was the House that passed their deal, not the Senate.

I've been trying to follow the details, but there's so much back and forth and adds and drops of both plans overlapping that I'm still not sure what ended up in the House version.

My best guess is that we are exactly the same as under the current system, until the Family credits go poof in 2023.  Then the lack of personal exemptions and increased bracket rate jacks our taxes up.  My kids lose out, though, because they lose the student loan interest deduction, the teacher deduction, the LLL credit for grad school, ...

Pretty much.  Many middle- to lower-income people will get small decreases in their taxes, while others will get increases.  Either way, those cuts are temporary and eventually most or all will have higher taxes.  Tax cuts for the wealthy and for businesses will be permanent.  In some cases those will be huge permanent cuts.  I could probably get on board with some form of corporate tax reform, but the rest is exactly the opposite of what would really grow the economy and create jobs.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Trump lies and brags about the size of everything. He doesn't want to release his tax forms because they would prove his lack of wealth, loans from foreign countries, use of his charity funds for personal use, and more.

[Value Buy]

Nov 17, 2017 13:18:55 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Nov 17, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

My point is, rather than discuss the plan, the left attacks the man.
I am getting tax relief.
Are you and the business?
Neither of us, I assume are anywhere near the uber rich, but, I expect we both get some relief here. 
The lower monetary levels get a big relief simply by their first $24,000 of income for a married couple is tax exempt.
But the media only says look over here at billionaires. They are screwing you! Shit they were the ones paying the taxes anyway....

The tax cuts for average joes expires in 2026? How will you fare at that point?

I am working on a plan. I have to wait until we see exactly how we fare in the new tax plan before implementation, but here is the plan as of now.
Sixty five percent of our investments are in regular IRA'S, the rest in 11 individual stocks, with ten issuing dividends, which are taxed at normal taxable income rate.
If our tax bills falls under the new program significantly enough, we will start withdrawing IRA accounts above the minimum distribution after I turn 71  1/2 paying the lower tax rate than now exists on the entire amount, as is done under the old tax plan. We plan to drain as much as possible out of retirement accounts by 2026, because as you say, the tax plan expires, unless the Senate and House changes the requirement. (highly unlikely) 
I imagine in 2026 Congress regardless of which party is in charge, or leadership, will raise everyone's tax rate to a higher rate than we are currently paying. I am pretty sure IRA'S AND 401-K'S will be taxed at a higher rate than normal taxable income. I would not be surprised that Roth accounts will be taxed, or at a minimum, any accounts worth a couple of million will have to pay something to the government.

Since we will be taking more distribution than needed, we plan on investing the difference every year. Probably some well paying dividend paying companies, but my plan could stumble if Congress decides to tax dividends at a higher rate than normal income rates.

We have not decided whether we should open a trust at this point.

[thyme4change]

Nov 17, 2017 11:07:50 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I was wondering the same thing. During the campaign it was claimed Trump exaggerated his wealth and he really wasn’t that successful because it was convenient to the anti Trump narritave at the time. Now he’s an Uber billionaire again because it’s convenient to anti Trump narritave being peddled by much of the media today.

Are you sure it was the exact same person saying conflicting things while insisting both are still true? Or was it two different people saying things that may or may not conflict, but they both dislike Trump, therefore they are lumped together.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Nov 20, 2017 22:24:34 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Nov 17, 2017 11:07:50 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I was wondering the same thing. During the campaign it was claimed Trump exaggerated his wealth and he really wasn’t that successful because it was convenient to the anti Trump narritave at the time. Now he’s an Uber billionaire again because it’s convenient to anti Trump narritave being peddled by much of the media today.

Are you sure it was the exact same person saying conflicting things while insisting both are still true? Or was it two different people saying things that may or may not conflict, but they both dislike Trump, therefore they are lumped together.

Yeah, good point.

Even if the same person were the discussant....

In 2016....Without the tax returns, his self-reported income is questionable. Not known for honesty nor accuracy....our donald....

In 2017....In the absence of real information, applying his stated income to the tax plan seems a reasonable way of estimating its effect on him. or at least, his desired effect.

If he wants a more accurate estimate in the media he can disclose the returns....

[tallguy]

I addressed this in #17.  The $1.1 billion that the tax plan is projected to benefit Trump is based on the lower value ($2.86 billion) that people who thought he was exaggerating his net worth concluded was a reasonable estimate.  If his wealth is the $10 billion he was claiming, the elimination of the estate tax alone would save him over $3-4 billion by itself.  There is no inconsistency in the article.  The inconsistency is in the OP's statements.   

[Tennesseer]

As a side issue:

Trump Family Business Is Way Smaller Than The President Has Touted

The Trump Organization’s Inflated revenue figures are “flagrantly untrue,” said a Crain’s reporter.

Donald Trump has an inflated view of his assets. The president’s family business is worth about one-tenth of the value he has claimed, according to an analysis of the latest figures he has filed with the federal government.

Some of the discrepancy is due to a downturn in business, but the rest is credited to an overheated imagination, according to Crain’s New York Business reporter Aaron Elstein, who examined the numbers.

In 2016 the Trump Organization reported nearly $9.5 billion in sales. But recent public filings by the president indicate that the company’s actual revenue that year was only as much as $700 million, Crain’s said.

Crain’s determined Trump has been reporting inflated revenue since at least 2010. After examining the latest figures Trump has filed, Crain’s this month bounced the Trump Organization from the No. 3 spot on its list of largest privately held New York City companies down to No. 40.

“It was obviously very important to Donald to have his company on the top of the list ... but the numbers that he presented are just flagrantly untrue,” Elstein told NPR. Crain’s said the $9.5 billion in revenue looks “preposterous in light of federal filings made by the president in the past year.”

Complete article here: Trump Family Business Is Way Smaller Than The President Has Touted

[dezii]

Nov 21, 2017 0:23:08 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

As a side issue:

Trump Family Business Is Way Smaller Than The President Has Touted

The Trump Organization’s Inflated revenue figures are “flagrantly untrue,” said a Crain’s reporter.

Donald Trump has an inflated view of his assets. The president’s family business is worth about one-tenth of the value he has claimed, according to an analysis of the latest figures he has filed with the federal government.

Some of the discrepancy is due to a downturn in business, but the rest is credited to an overheated imagination, according to Crain’s New York Business reporter Aaron Elstein, who examined the numbers.

In 2016 the Trump Organization reported nearly $9.5 billion in sales. But recent public filings by the president indicate that the company’s actual revenue that year was only as much as $700 million, Crain’s said.

Crain’s determined Trump has been reporting inflated revenue since at least 2010. After examining the latest figures Trump has filed, Crain’s this month bounced the Trump Organization from the No. 3 spot on its list of largest privately held New York City companies down to No. 40.

“It was obviously very important to Donald to have his company on the top of the list ... but the numbers that he presented are just flagrantly untrue,” Elstein told NPR. Crain’s said the $9.5 billion in revenue looks “preposterous in light of federal filings made by the president in the past year.”

Complete article here: Trump Family Business Is Way Smaller Than The President Has Touted

So your suggesting our Donald told a "untruth".. So surprising and shocking... ...