Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 6, 2017 17:14:30 GMT -5
Selective outrage? Large parts of the rest of the world has long been exploited to provide us our lifestyle. Are you going to deflect or stay on point? I am confused as to the point. There are over 208 million cell phone users. Most of them are likely smart phones and most smartphone users have had several before the current one they carry. The worldwide users of cell phones is expected to exceed 2 billion in 2017.
www.statista.com/statistics/201182/forecast-of-smartphone-users-in-the-us/
These kids are being exploited whether they are there for smart phone or electric car batteries. Feel free to do your own math, but using the worldwide figure and assuming one smartphone per person, the amount of cobalt used is two times the amount of cobalt used for all electric cars sold so far in the US. (over 540,000) Us only current would be over 25% of all electric cars sold to date. www.google.com/search?q=number+cars+with+electric+batteries+us
So is the issue the exploitation of children? Because coal doesn't power cars. And miners young or old getting black lung from coal dust sounds remarkably similar to what's happening to these poor kids. Drilling for oil offshore occasionally results in industrial accidents killing off wildlife and seafood sources of food. Not having electric cars does not sound like a good answer to me. Hopefully the cobalt can be reused and recycled.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 6, 2017 22:21:32 GMT -5
Are YOU going to deflect or stay on point?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 7, 2017 8:46:05 GMT -5
Ahh, the art of deflection of a discussion is alive and well again! Please start a thread on the exploitation of children harvesting cocoa. How about talking how Elon Musk is raking in billions of dollars on the lungs of poor black children's health? I imagine Bill Gates will start funding lung transplants very soon.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 7, 2017 8:49:15 GMT -5
Ahh, the art of deflection of a discussion is alive and well again! Please start a thread on the exploitation of children harvesting cocoa. How about talking how Elon Musk is raking in billions of dollars on the lungs of poor black children's health?I imagine Bill Gates will start funding lung transplants very soon. Or trump continuing black lung disease on miners. 'Make American Miners Sick Again'
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Post by moon/Laura on Aug 7, 2017 9:30:28 GMT -5
so with all that said, shooby. what was your point in starting this thread? I was wondering that too, given how most, if not all, the other things we love to use also use child labor or involve other things that we should also be against. But nope! Only electric cars are evil to shooby.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 7, 2017 9:33:52 GMT -5
From some points of view, it would be marvelous if the world would simply run the way those folks think it oughta run. That, however, isn't going to happen and we, as a country, cannot force it to happen. We can, as individuals, boycott certain products or practices but that's about the extent of our powers in this regard.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 7, 2017 9:54:20 GMT -5
From some points of view, it would be marvelous if the world would simply run the way those folks think it oughta run. That, however, isn't going to happen and we, as a country, cannot force it to happen. We can, as individuals, boycott certain products or practices but that's about the extent of our powers in this regard. I boycott certain products/companies but it's just a personal thing and I know it doesn't make one iota of difference in the grand scheme of things. Guess it's selective but then I can't boycot everything realistically.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 7, 2017 11:24:12 GMT -5
Ahh, the art of deflection of a discussion is alive and well again! Please start a thread on the exploitation of children harvesting cocoa. How about talking how Elon Musk is raking in billions of dollars on the lungs of poor black children's health? I imagine Bill Gates will start funding lung transplants very soon. Yes the art of deflection is alive and well. I had a feeling the article in the OP might be making the rounds as a hit piece against electric cars or perhaps a specific manufacturer of electric cars. Not enough people do research before being herded into selective outrage. I just became aware that cobalt is used in laptop batteries and even jet engine turbine blades. And Prius batteries use cobalt too.
www.caranddriver.com/columns/aaron-robinson-out-of-africa-where-electric-vehicle-batteries-come-from-part-ii
Indeed, you’ll most often find cobalt cruising at about 35,000 feet as an alloy in the wheeling turbine blades of jet engines, used because of its strength and thermal stability.It’s those same properties that also make cobalt a key ingredient in the latest generation of powerful, long-lasting batteries for cell phones, laptop computers, and electric and hybrid cars. And every 89-pound nickel-metal hydride battery pack in a new Prius contains, according to Toyota, four pounds of cobalt.
The auto industry is looking to reduce its cobalt dependency, experimenting with substitutes such as manganese and nickel, usually at a cost to weight and battery performance. Nissan says the batteries in its new Leaf electric car contain no cobalt, and California Institute of Technology battery expert Dr. Rachid Yazami believes that cobalt may be gone completely from electric-vehicle batteries within a decade.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 7, 2017 13:08:36 GMT -5
And Trump ties are made in Bangladesh, known to use children in sweatshops.
Question. As a global citizen, would you prefer the lesser of the two evils where they will not die an early death, or are both to be stopped immediately? I only ask this because most posters are only concerned about the evil of Donald Trump, rather than the whole picture. Myself, I chose the evil of lead over sewing machines. Why not ask the citizens of Flint Michigan or East Chicago Indiana which hurts the society more?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 7, 2017 14:47:43 GMT -5
And Trump ties are made in Bangladesh, known to use children in sweatshops.
Question. As a global citizen, would you prefer the lesser of the two evils where they will not die an early death, or are both to be stopped immediately? I only ask this because most posters are only concerned about the evil of Donald Trump, rather than the whole picture. Myself, I chose the evil of lead over sewing machines. Why not ask the citizens of Flint Michigan or East Chicago Indiana which hurts the society more? I buy lots of clothes made overseas in sweatshops.
I did not get elected president by crowing about making America great again by bringing back manufacturing jobs while I have my own merchandise made overseas. Put your money where you mouth is.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 7, 2017 19:49:32 GMT -5
I didn't know anyone wore them anymore
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 7, 2017 20:27:06 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 8, 2017 8:50:00 GMT -5
I see Moon has finally become politicized after years of saying she wasn't I like it! At least the Donald is getting the uncommitted vote out there.......
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Post by moon/Laura on Aug 8, 2017 10:51:37 GMT -5
Not so much 'getting political' as just simply showing my utter disdain for the clown that is (unfortunately) our president. Beyond that, I'm still not interested.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 8, 2017 13:02:08 GMT -5
I see Moon has finally become politicized after years of saying she wasn't I like it! At least the Donald is getting the uncommitted vote out there....... As is often true, what you think you see in another is not what actually exists in that other. Moonbeam, as I know her, is pretty much apolitical. What do you mean by "the uncommitted vote" and how do you know (if it's actually uncommitted) who's getting it?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2017 5:07:05 GMT -5
I'd like to transfer the UN to another country
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 9, 2017 6:36:44 GMT -5
I think it's time for another country to bear the burden.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2017 8:50:02 GMT -5
I see Moon has finally become politicized after years of saying she wasn't I like it! At least the Donald is getting the uncommitted vote out there....... As is often true, what you think you see in another is not what actually exists in that other. Moonbeam, as I know her, is pretty much apolitical. What do you mean by "the uncommitted vote" and how do you know (if it's actually uncommitted) who's getting it? As you can see Moon is capable of defending her stance! Give me a break for something tongue and cheek. I even used the I was being sarcastic about the Donald. He has converted the uncommitted masses who did not bother to vote in the election to the Democrats this year. The uncommitted voters who did not bother voting are kicking their selves in the butt these days. I think even you will have to admit he did not garner this demographic, but has antagonized them to forge a new movement against him. (now waiting for mmhmm to tell me I do not know what she thinks) But, deep down she knows I am correct!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2017 8:51:48 GMT -5
I didn't know anyone wore them anymore Politicians, all day long. I think some of them even wear them to bed at night. but that might be for other activities.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2017 8:55:02 GMT -5
I think it is advantageous to us to have the seat of One World Government here in our provinces. I am of the belief it should be moved to North Korea or Afghanistan these days. You can bet your last Yankee dollar the UN would accomplish all the stuff they claim they are supposed to do in about two weeks every year because the diplomats would want to get out of these countries as fast as humanly possible. Who wants to go eat dog meat at a restaurant after a busy day at the office?
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 9, 2017 8:56:02 GMT -5
I didn't know anyone wore them anymore Politicians, all day long. I think some of them even wear them to bed at night. but that might be for other activities. They wear them to keep their heads from coming detached from their bodies!!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 9, 2017 8:58:52 GMT -5
Politicians, all day long. I think some of them even wear them to bed at night. but that might be for other activities. They wear them to keep their heads from coming detached from their bodies!! I was thinking some other activities ties might be used in at night........
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Aug 9, 2017 9:04:30 GMT -5
They wear them to keep their heads from coming detached from their bodies!! I was thinking some other activities ties might be used in at night........ I wasn't going there for once
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Post by milee on Aug 9, 2017 10:22:05 GMT -5
I think it is advantageous to us to have the seat of One World Government here in our provinces. Can you explain more? What do you see as the advantages other than prestige?
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Post by milee on Aug 9, 2017 11:39:25 GMT -5
Can you explain more? What do you see as the advantages other than prestige? I think prestige is one of the advantages, actually. Even at supposedly "professional" diplomatic levels, it does have a slight bearing on the reaction of people. Also prestigious, it shows off the USA as being central to the world power brokers. Somewhat related, people coming to the UN are plopped down in the middle of the culture of the most vibrant country in the world. NYC is an exciting and rather impressive place, and all around it are other impressive icons of Americana, not the least of which is Washington DC. We pay an outsized amount of the freight for the infrastructure, which gives us leverage. While the comings and goings are protected by diplomatic immunity, there is a limit to that as well. We can and do push at times when we need to. Being right in our yard we are also right here to react to anything, quickly. Finally, we prevent any shenanigans or disruptions that we couldn't control should it be located abroad. These are all elements of soft power to be sure. But soft power is important too. If Washington didn't agree they would have been gone long ago. Thanks for clarifying. I understand your points, even if I don't agree with several of them. For example, I don't see that our disproportionately large financial contributions necessarily translate into additional leverage. In some ways, I think the opposite is true. The world has become used to the US paying for the lion's share of not just infrastructure but also operational activities; the world is so used to that, they have become conditioned to expect that and IMHO doesn't accord those outsized contributions any additional value or leverage. It's become the norm rather than something viewed as additional and meriting additional respect, authority, influence, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 13:16:26 GMT -5
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 9, 2017 14:12:43 GMT -5
Selective outrage? Large parts of the rest of the world has long been exploited to provide us our lifestyle. The US is the only (selected) country that has a lot of Li-Ion battery powered devices ? ... Of course not. Many different countries exploit the children of other countries for a long list of products. Is that a universal wrong to be condemned across the board or is it only wrong of those who buy electric cars?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 10:29:13 GMT -5
The US is the only (selected) country that has a lot of Li-Ion battery powered devices ? ... Of course not. Many different countries exploit the children of other countries for a long list of products. Is that a universal wrong to be condemned across the board or is it only wrong of those who buy electric cars? I thought you were making a point of US culpability in being the only big user of cobalt. We're not. I compare the use of cobalt for electric car batteries vs phones. Phones being a long established and highly popular product using a couple of grams per unit vs electric car usage just on the cusp of being a mass use product, using up to 150 pounds per unit. Tesla as an example, including their power wall battery. The UK is mandating all electric cars for sale by 2040 with France following suit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 10:34:13 GMT -5
This is the worldwide haves vs. the have nots. You know, first world vs. third world. Apparently this concerns Shooby , who must want us in the first world to give up our riches to equalize with the rest of the world's squalid billions. I was surprised as I didn't think she felt that way. I think she was making a point to the bleeding heart liberals who have no problem having their li-ion battery powered devices and push for the usage of cars powered by the same, which also use large amounts of cobalt. IMHO of course.
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