Christie: Your Neighbors Pay, They Can't Afford It

[Value Buy]

Rovo, I think Warsaw was replying to post 24.
Warsaw, sometimes you do seem to go after the rightwing views in a rather vehement style.

Edit, post 24 asked why they should not respond to Warsaw...

[hello fromWarsaw]

She's trolling me as far as I'm concerned. NOT on point, just insults and BS.

The teachers salaries (89K for Wisc., etc) that Pubs talk about ARE total BS. The real avg. is 37K...

[rovo]

Value Buy, Yes, I thought so too but he posted it in post #19. I suppose he could have been predicting #24 was something he was going to reply to. He has since edited it to be the number 14. Now it makes a little more sense but only a little.

hello from warsaw: "That's the most partisan, rude moderating I've ever seen."

Then stop putting up messages that have little or no meaning. It has nothing to do with "most partisan' but has a lot to do with posting off topic, non-sensible posts.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Name one

[hello fromWarsaw]

No I typed 24 when I meant 14. I apologize for that

[hello fromWarsaw]

I used to teach in NJ. Very stressful

[hello fromWarsaw]

It was a private school in Edison- paid 13k/year. Mainly to keep whites out of black public schools.

[hello fromWarsaw]

It's funny, no Dem has ever said I was hard to understand.... ;D

[hello fromWarsaw]

Oh, Administrator is NOT a moderator. Nice to meet you ROVO! But Christie is a big fat idiot, and you are sorely misled.

[hello fromWarsaw]

You scared the hoome ;D

[vonnie6200]

Mar 24, 2011 20:30:54 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

Oh, Administrator is NOT a moderator. Nice to meet you ROVO! But Christie is a big fat idiot, and you are sorely misled.

And you Warsaw are arrogant and rude.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Troll And you don't understand debate rules. And I'm also right, and never rude first. And I'm on point.

[hello fromWarsaw]

See, you are rude about me, while I am rude about Christie and your political ideas. Do you get debate yet?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 24, 2011 17:32:50 GMT -5 oped said:

Its the principal of the thing paul... if you want other people to pay 13% of their wage to health care.. you should be willing to do it too... and i'm not just talking him... any representative should have to take the same deal they want to give other government workers...

And if we paid Christie $0 and he had to do the job as a volunteer, you'd be here saying that he's grand-standing and it's just symbolic.

The more important "principle of the thing" is that we, the taxpayers- those that earn all the wealth, and pick up the tab are no longer going to pay our servants more than we make. We're going to put the "service" back in public service. It's a calling, not a lottery ticket.

You don't get to make more money, have better benefits, get more time off, have absolute job security, and retire earlier than the people paying your salary.

[Deleted]

But why should governors and other representatives be exempt from the rules governing other public servants... why should they have to pay into their own pensions and helath care as well?

I am not for volunteer reps... because you need to be independently wealthy to do so... but i think pay should be modest to high-modest, and they should follow the same rules as everyone else in terms of paying for benefits including health care...

You go on and on about teachers 'summers off'... how many days is Congress realy in session?

Your last sentence does not accurately depict reality...

[formerexpat]

it is sad that Christie has to explain to an adult, ostensibly an adult that performs some useful service for the taxpayers, economics 101.

It's sad that we have to continually say the same thing to the "adults" here on these boards. What part of "we're broke" do people have a problem understanding?

Kind of reminds me of an exchange between a parent and child. But mommy / daddy, I want this and I want that. Sorry junior but mommy and daddy simply can't afford to buy you everything you want.

Unfortunately, my 2 year old son understands this exchange better than most adults.

It isn't 41% of their pay... its 41% of the taxes... and last year it was actually 38% of the federal income tax... at the same time the top 1% also MADE 20% off all the money... so they aren't doing all that bad... (and their average tax rate was 23%)

Correction - their share of AGI is 20%; not of all money. The deductions from AGI of the lowest 99% are going to be much larger, cumulatively, than the deductions from AGI for the top 1% to bring that 20% figure down a bit to somewhere around 15-17%.

[straydog]

Mar 24, 2011 18:49:39 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

A.Pub stats are BS.
B. Christie: "Divide and conquer- funny only the rich will make out..."

SD:
Under Corzine, the only ones that made out were the government unions. He bankrupted the state, raised our sales tax, sent private capital running for the door, and made sleazy 'insider' deals with his union boss girlfriend to get their support. There were alot of good reasons why he was sent packing.

[Bluerobin]

The real problem is that the state worker's salary has keep pace while the average worker's has not. Therefore the average worker cannot afford the tax. If industry CEO's had not gotten greedy and started underpaying their workers, while overpaying themselves, we would not have these problems. But I suppose it is a good thing to pay executives millions and only pay workers $10 per hour. After all, we would not want anyone doing better than their parents. It is time to bring down the salaries of the govt workers too. Totally eliminate the middle class.

[Bluerobin]

Well said Snerdley!

[Deleted]

"The deductions from AGI of the lowest 99%"

Unless you are self employed, the deductions before AGI are rather insignificant. Educator expenses, HSA, Moving expenses, IRA, Student loans, Tuition and fees... I would think the majority of the lower 50% wouldn't even have an adjustment... their total income and AGI would be the same...

[swamp]

Here's one of your resident liberals chiming in.

Honesty and candor in an elected official is something I really appreciate.

I wish more had the stones to make similar comments and maybe, just maybe, the general public will get the idea that all this gubmit money comes from us.

[vonnie6200]

Mar 25, 2011 8:22:17 GMT -5 swamp said:

Here's one of your resident liberals chiming in.

Honesty and candor in an elected official is something I really appreciate.

I wish more had the stones to make similar comments and maybe, just maybe, the general public will get the idea that all this gubmit money comes from us.

[Bluerobin]

I just wish they had the brains to read the union contracts before they signed them!

[swamp]

Mar 25, 2011 8:31:24 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

I just wish they had the brains to read the union contracts before they signed them!

Blue, sometimes something that seems innocuous 30 years ago is now biting the gov. in the butt.

Example: My dad was union head for municipal firefighters in the 1970's when inflation was rampant. The City did not have the cash reserves to keep raising the salaries. In exchange for smaller raises, the City negotiated better health insurance benefits for retirees and their spouses. Back then, people died earlier, firefighters were even more likely do die early because they didn't have the same safety requirements on the job, and health costs weren't nearly as high as they are now. In addition, since it is a rural area that did not have a cancer treatment center, or dialysis, or other more sophisticated medical treatment options, if you had a cancer or kidney disease diagnosis, unless you traveled at least 2 hours, you weren't getting treatment.

The end result? The local hospital has expanded and offers more health care services. The retired firefighters are living "forever," and in 2011 the City is self insured and being strapped by retiree health care costs.

[Bluerobin]

Remember only the govt workers have kept pace with inflation. The rest of the great unwashed workers have not, and they are starting to realize it!

[formerexpat]

Unless you are self employed, the deductions before AGI are rather insignificant. Educator expenses, HSA, Moving expenses, IRA, Student loans, Tuition and fees... I would think the majority of the lower 50% wouldn't even have an adjustment... their total income and AGI would be the same...

Sure for a single tax return it might seem insignificant to you. However, AGI also excludes 401k contributions and health care insurance premiums paid through your employer.

Now multiply that seemingly insignificant number by the 138 million tax returns that are not in the top 1%. That number will far exceed the number of the 1.4m returns that are in the top 1%.

That "insignificant" number can easily exceed $5k. Based on my own situation when I was first out of college and making $40k, my AGI was $7.3k less than my gross income [health care - $1.6k, 401k - $3.2k, student loan int ded - $2.5k]. This is easily plausible for most of the lower 99%.

$7k x 138 million tax returns is nearly 1 trillion worth of income that you're excluding from your mathematical equation. It is doubtful that the deductions from AGI for the top 1% is anywhere near that amount, and even if it is remotely close, let's say $100bn is remotely close, the tax code has the AMT to capture the tax related to this deducted income. [/size]

[formerexpat]

A more important issue is bringing people up rather than pulling everyone down. I would rather bring up the private sector rather than pull down the public.

I'd rather not pull up or pull down either segment of the population and let market forces determine wages and compensation like they largely do in the private sector.

Right now, we've got to align the public sector with reality. You may call that "pulling down" but most would calling it "getting in touch with reality". [/size]

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Now multiply that seemingly insignificant number by the 138 million tax returns that are not in the top 1%. That number will far exceed the number of the 1.4m returns that are in the top 1%.

47% of the wage earning population pays no federal incomes anyway. So this is a moot point.

[Deleted]

Heath care insurance premiums paid by your employer are not considered compensation and do not impact AGI for anyone... I'm not sure where you are getting that?

And health insurance premiums paid by you do not lower your AGI, unless you are talking HSA contributions, which most people do not have.

And 138 million tax returns could also hardly note 401K ... since there are only around 50 million Americans with 401ks... and that was in 2006... before our most current crisis... wanna bet which percentage of lower/higher income people have a 401K?
www.ebri.org/pdf/briefspdf/EBRI_IB_08-20073.pdf

You paid student loan interest of 2.5K? .... I'm betting most of the lower 50% did not... The highest mine ever was, was 3-400 ...

So.... you think 1.6+3.2+2.5 = 7.3K is reasonable pre-agi deductions are plaudible for most people? ... lol... You need to do some serious reading..

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 25, 2011 8:34:08 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

So, they can just up and decide they don't want to pay them or be held accountable for what is promised? I would think the fact that they can just bail whenever they want rather than live up to their obligations would be a greater concern than the money they actually pay out.

I'm unaware of any proposals to change the past promises. These proposals which are popping up everywhere across the country are VERY modest changes to existing and future public employees. So, nobody is "bailing" on anything. However, if these changes don't pass and we start looking at gov't bankruptcies- that will change the deal for sure.

The question retirees ought to ask themselves is whether or not they will risk their own retirement security supporting the recent excesses of current workers?

Something I let slide from the OP is Penny's story. As someone that pays for my own healthcare, I'm interested to know what plan she's got where 13% of the premium is $600 each month. That means that her health plan's total premium is $4,615 each month, or $55,380 a year.

Anyone besides me think that Penny is full of sh**, or just flat doesn't have her facts right?