Job Snobbery

[swamp]

Mar 17, 2017 14:33:54 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 17, 2017 14:23:31 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It's pretty hard on students who served during college then get their first "real" job and find out they make less full time than they did part time as servers.

That was me.  One of the jobs I worked to put myself through college was waitressing.  I earned a lot more per hour waitressing than I did at my first year of my prestigious job as an accountant at a Big Six firm...  

(Of course that was without considering the benefits, which honestly at that point I didn't value too much.  Most 21 year olds - including me - don't go to the doc too often so would rather have the cash than a nice health insurance dental and vision plan.   )  

and retirement is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo far down the road. 

[giramomma]

Mar 17, 2017 13:26:38 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

. At the very least, they should be moving into retail or restaurant management if they want to make that their career.

Have you considered not everyone wants that type of responsibility?

My boss is on the leadership team in the department. One of the things he's tasked with is figuring out how to make three people do the work of 8 people, quite literally, by the end of the summer. Hiring folks isn't an option.

I'm wondering how you feel about that kind of managerial responsibility? Would you embrace it? Or might you say "No thank you."

[steph08]

Mar 17, 2017 13:30:55 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I don't look down on people that work in "manual" jobs, in most cases I'm kinda jealous that their skills they learned at work translate into some usefulness in their personal life (such as tradesmen).

Being a little lazy though, I do wonder why some people that had the opportunity to go to college ended up choosing to work in the trades.  Partly because it's physically taxing work both in the present and, most likely, long-term for your body.  Still though, maybe people are good at it and just deal with it.  

My DH was the person you described - he went to college out of high school but dropped out after a year and then spent ten years working in a cabinet factory. 

School bored him and he just wasn't ready for it, even though he's smart. The degree he was going for would get him a starting salary around the same as he was making at the factory. He wanted the money and didn't want to do the work. 

It was a decent job and it improved his DIY skills - for which I am thankful! haha.

But he did eventually go back to school and get his degree and now makes 20k/year more.  

[milee]

Mar 17, 2017 14:38:01 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:26:38 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

. At the very least, they should be moving into retail or restaurant management if they want to make that their career.

Have you considered not everyone wants that type of responsibility?

My boss is on the leadership team in the department. One of the things he's tasked with is figuring out how to make three people do the work of 8 people, quite literally, by the end of the summer. Hiring folks isn't an option.

I'm wondering how you feel about that kind of managerial responsibility? Would you embrace it? Or might you say "No thank you."

Not only that but again getting "promoted" from waiter to manager means a pay cut...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 17, 2017 15:01:12 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 17, 2017 14:38:01 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Have you considered not everyone wants that type of responsibility?

My boss is on the leadership team in the department. One of the things he's tasked with is figuring out how to make three people do the work of 8 people, quite literally, by the end of the summer. Hiring folks isn't an option.

I'm wondering how you feel about that kind of managerial responsibility? Would you embrace it? Or might you say "No thank you."

Not only that but again getting "promoted" from waiter to manager means a pay cut...

This happens in all professions too.  TD has spent his life trying to avoid being promoted to a manager.  He likes the technical aspect of his job, and he does NOT want to do this side.  If he did, it would jack his salary up more but he is happy with what he makes, doing what he likes to do.

How is this a bad thing?  Being a manager is not what some people aspire to.  I managed a lab, reluctantly.  Keep me at the bench, and I am happiest.  I'm like this too.

[gambler]

I have the best job I the world(for me), I am a talent evaluator for a strip club 

[Phoenix84]

Mar 17, 2017 14:23:31 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:26:38 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I'll admit, my perception of retail and food service workers isn't necessarily "disrespectful" but I feel like it should be a temporary stepping stone to something better.  I don't see how or why anyone with any intelligence, ability, or ambition would make a full time career of that.

I understand that those jobs are there for young people to get job experience, or home makers trying to earn some extra money, or the elderly looking for something to do, or someone in between jobs or teachers working the summer, or college students looking for flexible hours. But I don't see why or how someone would choose that kind of job full time for years and years. At the very least, they should be moving into retail or restaurant management if they want to make that their career.

And yes, I've worked retail and food service before in high school and college.  But I knew I didn't want to do that job forever.

That said, I don't believe in being rude or disrespectful to retail or food service workers. It's unnecessary and just makes you a dick. If you have a legitimate complaint, bring it to the attention of a manager, but don't be a jackass just because you can. 

It's pretty hard on students who served during college then get their first "real" job and find out they make less full time than they did part time as servers.

I was there.  My first job out of college was with a newly minted physics degree was as a radiation safety technician at a shipyard.  I was making about $15 an hour, which was what the apprentices just coming out of high school were making.  It was a bit sobering.

I make a lot more than that now, but at the time, it was a rough realization of the world. 

[billisonboard]

Mar 17, 2017 13:38:21 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:30:55 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I don't look down on people that work in "manual" jobs, in most cases I'm kinda jealous that their skills they learned at work translate into some usefulness in their personal life (such as tradesmen).

Being a little lazy though, I do wonder why some people that had the opportunity to go to college ended up choosing to work in the trades.  Partly because it's physically taxing work both in the present and, most likely, long-term for your body.  Still though, maybe people are good at it and just deal with it.  

maybe they like being able to work with their hands? He is still very young, but I can totally see my DS going into a trade. He is very smart and inquisitive but he has a massive amount of energy. I cannot see him taking a desk job as an adult, and if he did take a desk job I could see him doing something like drafting or game design.

Had a neighbor who got a degree and a white collar job when the local mill shut down. The mill reopened and he happily went back to being a millwright. It is how some people are wired.

[giramomma]

Mar 17, 2017 15:01:12 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 17, 2017 14:38:01 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Have you considered not everyone wants that type of responsibility?

My boss is on the leadership team in the department. One of the things he's tasked with is figuring out how to make three people do the work of 8 people, quite literally, by the end of the summer. Hiring folks isn't an option.

I'm wondering how you feel about that kind of managerial responsibility? Would you embrace it? Or might you say "No thank you."

Not only that but again getting "promoted" from waiter to manager means a pay cut...

I know, for certain, what we are seeing at work...there are no monetary rewards for increased productivity....

[cronewitch]

I only disrespect work that is dishonest or you wouldn't want your grand father to find out about like prostitution and porn. I turned down a job selling investments to suckers, I just can't sell something that would be bad for the buyer.
Honest work like cleaning motel rooms I have done and not been ashamed. I got a career later but some do that sort of job for live. ISO's mother cleaned motel rooms and homes and other cleaning work her entire life. She wasn't qualified for anything else, she could barely read, dyslexic, high school drop out, not good at anything but cleaning but she was really good at cleaning and proud of it, nothing to be ashamed of.
When I was younger working in a CPA firm as a bookkeeper people would ask if I was a CPA and I would say I was "only" a bookkeeper. Being a bookkeeper isn't bad, I became a CPA later but went back to bookkeeping. I don't disrespect people who don't choose to become professionals like at the dentist office the entire staff who aren't dentist. My hygienist is pretty old, likes her job, never wanted to be a dentist. Sure her mom might have wanted to say my daughter the doctor but she has a honorable job she is good at.

[DagnyT]

Mar 17, 2017 13:23:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Mar 17, 2017 12:40:07 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

the issue is that who is going to pay the higher rate for the CNAs?  my aunt is a CNA and she only works for wealthy, elderly people doing home health care. She makes decent money, much better than if she worked for a nursing home or even a hospital. But she is working for people who have the money and value in home care. We don't all have the luxury.

I would think nursing homes and hospitals could find enough money to at least pay CNA's $11/hr which is what Wal-mart starts people at around here.

The hospitals in our county just instituted a "living wage" of $11 per hour. So the minimum for CNAs is $11. I live in the South. The former minimum was about $9.50, or thereabouts.

[Deleted]

My daughter is a part-time pharmacist married to a lawyer at one of the bigger law firms in our area.  He is also a politician.

So she goes to a lot of events as his spouse, and invariably people ask her what she "does."  She likes to reply, "I work at Walmart" and watch them fumble for what to say next.

It's true.  She does work at Walmart.  

[zibazinski]

Mar 17, 2017 17:21:09 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

My daughter is a part-time pharmacist married to a lawyer at one of the bigger law firms in our area.  He is also a politician.

So she goes to a lot of events as his spouse, and invariably people ask her what she "does."  She likes to reply, "I work at Walmart" and watch them fumble for what to say next.

It's true.  She does work at Walmart.  

[whoisjohngalt]

Mar 17, 2017 13:28:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 17, 2017 10:33:07 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Based on comments on the Feminism thread.  Why do some people think some jobs are better than others?

because they are assholes.

That's not fair.

Some jobs are better than others.  It just depends what "you" consider better.

[countrygirl2]

My husband started out lowly of low in the operators, an oiler on equipment, did sawcut jobs in concrete highways. These were dirty, hot jobs, but he did them. Saw him sleep in his truck to work all the hours he could. I had a college degree.

But as time went on he moved up, and up, and up, to where he was running and finishing multiple jobs and going to different ones around that were troubled to finish out.

He was with 1 big company and when they closed a division they offered him overseas work, he had already been a supervisor for many years. He worked 15 more overseas, so was with this company over 25 years. Was a lowly construction worker that made good. But as he said now a guy wouldn't even get a chance, he was doing engineering work too, basically a lot of the time or reviewing it.

So sometimes, or in the past at least you could work your way up, he was making 6 figures when he retired. I do not laugh at blue collar employees.

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2017 17:52:05 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

My husband started out lowly of low in the operators, an oiler on equipment, did sawcut jobs in concrete highways. These were dirty, hot jobs, but he did them. Saw him sleep in his truck to work all the hours he could. I had a college degree.

But as time went on he moved up, and up, and up, to where he was running and finishing multiple jobs and going to different ones around that were troubled to finish out.

He was with 1 big company and when they closed a division they offered him overseas work, he had already been a supervisor for many years. He worked 15 more overseas, so was with this company over 25 years. Was a lowly construction worker that made good. But as he said now a guy wouldn't even get a chance, he was doing engineering work too, basically a lot of the time or reviewing it.

So sometimes, or in the past at least you could work your way up, he was making 6 figures when he retired. I do not laugh at blue collar employees.

My former FIL started at a company at 18 sweeping the floors.  He worked his way up to shift supervisor, plant manager, vice-president, and then president.  He owned the majority of the company before it was over, purchasing the stock from some of the board members.  He only had a high school degree.

Unfortunately, you can't do that any more.  But there was a time when you could.

[thyme4change]

Mar 17, 2017 17:41:11 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:28:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

because they are assholes.

That's not fair.

Some jobs are better than others.  It just depends what "you" consider better.

Absolutely some jobs are better than others. It doesn't mean the people are better people or anything like that. It doesn't mean we should look down on anyone who works any job. It just means that if you have to spend a third of your life doing something, there is probably a range of things you would like to do and compensation you would like to get vs. Jobs you would not like to do and the compensation isn't worth it.

[debthaven]

I have noticed a trend in my upper-middle class suburb ... everybody these days agree that trades are definitely the way to go.

But nobody few people actually want their kids to go into the trades ... most of them just want other people's kids to.

I have one friend (I've know her for decades but she's more of an acquaintance) who encouraged their son (who was not academic) to become an HVAC technician. That was a first!

You all know we have rentals. We have a "Pascal the Plumber" who is not really a traditional plumber (although he was once). He clears out blocked pipes, including sewage pipes. He has top-of-the-line technology, cameras and water jets, also cleans out pumps and cesspits, and also rids people's houses of weasels (common here), rats, mice, etc (but not bugs).

In other words, he deals with shite and nasty animals, ie, everything most people don't want to have to deal with themselves.

OMG does he make bank! He's in his early very 50s now. Every time I have to call him, I pray that he hasn't yet retired LOL.

[tskeeter]

Mar 17, 2017 10:45:26 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I feel some people think that people who work using their backs are somehow inferior to those who work using their brains (in their estimation).  I think it implies to some they are not smart enough to get a job that doesn't require manual labor.  My dad was a blue collar worker.  According to him, he worked his ass off for less money than someone sitting behind a desk doing mostly nothing.  So it goes both ways, I think.  Those who labor physically often look down on those who don't and act like they are big pansies who couldn't make it in the "real " world. 

I think, in part, it depends on how we as a society value the job they do.  It we actually knew what living without a sewer or septic system would be like, I think we would have a whole different view of those who work in those fields.  If we actually knew what it was like to have our neighborhoods buried in nasty trash, we'd have a whole lot more respect for those who dispose of it for us.  We are just spoiled.

Yup.  I was one of those desk dwelling manufacturing pansies that your Dad disdained.  As you pointed out, it goes both ways.  I've been told several times "You're just overhead.  You only have a job because of me."  To which I responded "Yes, my job is classified as overhead.  And without you, I wouldn't have a job.  But, without people doing jobs like mine, you don't get a pay check, vendors don't get paid, materials don't get ordered, and you don't have any materials to make stuff with.  Without materials to use, you don't have a job.  So, I think you and I depend an awful lot on each other."

[whoisjohngalt]

Mar 17, 2017 18:29:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Mar 17, 2017 17:41:11 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

That's not fair.

Some jobs are better than others.  It just depends what "you" consider better.

Absolutely some jobs are better than others. It doesn't mean the people are better people or anything like that. It doesn't mean we should look down on anyone who works any job. It just means that if you have to spend a third of your life doing something, there is probably a range of things you would like to do and compensation you would like to get vs. Jobs you would not like to do and the compensation isn't worth it.

That's all true, but that wasn't the question in OP and that's not what Swamp replied to.

In any case, I think it's all very very subjective.

[whoisjohngalt]

Also, I think people tend to tie their self image and who they are to their jobs /professions.

I had a thread on here awhile ago about a woman I met who told me she was a  nurse.  Turns out she used to be a nurse but now was SAHM.  It didn't make sense to me, but most of you here agreed that she had every right to say that she was a nurse due to her training, skills, etc

For me it's different.  I have never identified myself by any of my jobs and I still don't.  But I guess I am in a minority in that.

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2017 15:27:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:38:21 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

maybe they like being able to work with their hands? He is still very young, but I can totally see my DS going into a trade. He is very smart and inquisitive but he has a massive amount of energy. I cannot see him taking a desk job as an adult, and if he did take a desk job I could see him doing something like drafting or game design.

Had a neighbor who got a degree and a white collar job when the local mill shut down. The mill reopened and he happily went back to being a millwright. It is how some people are wired.

We have a couple of former nurses and teachers that work on our production floor.
Some from burn out. They like not taking work home with them, not having to think too much, punch in and punch out. 

[zibazinski]

I rarely admit anymore what I did. If I meet someone new I just mention that I cared for DH and just kind of move on to other things. It angers me that my profession is looked down on as well as put down and I'm tired of fighting a system that thinks it's an "easy" job with lots of vacation and summers off.

[zibazinski]

Sadly enough the more I read here, the sadder I feel that I didn't get a degree in something that commanded more respect as well as more money.

[countrygirl2]

I had tree trimmers who had worked and now have multi million dollar companies and they are proud of them.

I remember my one septic guy dealing in well you know, he had new equipment, never had to touch the

nasties and last time I was talking to him in Texas he was building a 5000 sq ft house. Lots of people

who do "dirty" jobs are doing ok, better then ok, but sometimes a lowly paid desk jockey will look down

on them. LOL!

I was laughed at when I worked because when I went home I worked at night, weekends, and evenings

on rentals.  But when I had to quit work with sick mom and daughter we continued just fine.  Most of the

people I worked with could never have left.  So went from work requiring a degree to one where I used

the education but used my hands and back more.  It paid off.

Most peoples jobs have worth, it takes all of us to keep it all running.

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2017 21:04:01 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I had tree trimmers who had worked and now have multi million dollar companies and they are proud of them.

I had a student who owned a tree service company.  He was 18.  They specialized in the hard jobs.  He ended up dropping out of high school because he couldn't balance everything.  Remember he was the owner.

The assistant principal who was trying to counsel him on stuff like excessive absences used to get annoyed because he would be out in the hall and teachers would interrupt to ask when he was going to cut down their trees, etc.  He was very successful at 18.

He is successful now, but we need about 20 years or so to see if dropping out was such a good idea.  He definitely put all his eggs in one basket, but it was working for him now.

[weltschmerz]

Mar 17, 2017 18:44:12 GMT -5 debthaven said:

I have noticed a trend in my upper-middle class suburb ... everybody these days agree that trades are definitely the way to go.

But nobody few people actually want their kids to go into the trades ... most of them just want other people's kids to.

I have one friend (I've know her for decades but she's more of an acquaintance) who encouraged their son (who was not academic) to become an HVAC technician. That was a first!

You all know we have rentals. We have a "Pascal the Plumber" who is not really a traditional plumber (although he was once). He clears out blocked pipes, including sewage pipes. He has top-of-the-line technology, cameras and water jets, also cleans out pumps and cesspits, and also rids people's houses of weasels (common here), rats, mice, etc (but not bugs).

In other words, he deals with shite and nasty animals, ie, everything most people don't want to have to deal with themselves.

OMG does he make bank! He's in his early very 50s now. Every time I have to call him, I pray that he hasn't yet retired LOL.

CNAs deal with shit, vomit, violence and aggression. Almost every health worker I know also has chronic back problems. Paying them minimum wage just isn't right.

[countrygirl2]

It's kind of like its great for your kid to be in the military, but MY kid is not going to go.

We are proud of son being in it and right now even in his civilian role is in danger

from N Korea. If this continues escalating by one crazy to another I expect DIL and

grandson to be home.

Usually the poor bear the brunt of defending our country, personally I think the draft

should be reinstated, period, no deferments, you serve one way or another.

No foot spur deferments like the Trump.

If you are proud to be an American, be proud enough to step up and "work" to help

us remain free.  If the rich kids were in it there would be less wars.

[NoNamePerson]

Mar 17, 2017 15:27:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 17, 2017 13:38:21 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

maybe they like being able to work with their hands? He is still very young, but I can totally see my DS going into a trade. He is very smart and inquisitive but he has a massive amount of energy. I cannot see him taking a desk job as an adult, and if he did take a desk job I could see him doing something like drafting or game design.

Had a neighbor who got a degree and a white collar job when the local mill shut down. The mill reopened and he happily went back to being a millwright. It is how some people are wired.

This is my son. First summer job as 16 yr old was with construction company hanging sheet rock and ceiling tiles. Won't even go into the progression that lead to him owning his own company. He did go to school (college) for year and half and dropped out. He hated it.

Even to this day he will find an excuse to work with his tools and he doesn't have to. He said he just has to get his hands dirty like the guys. He loves it. And when some companies larger than his went under during the big bust he managed to keep afloat - he is in commercial and not house building and he is a "sub contractor"

If the whole world was full of nothing but the "snob" jobs we would be in a world of sh##. I'll admit that I'm not like some folks who can do EVERYTHING themselves and dang glad someone wanted to become a plumber/electrician/etc.    OH and I forgot to included mechanic - lord help me if I had to fix a car 

[Anne_in_VA]

When I was in high school I worked as a cashier at a supermarket for $4.10 an hour.  When I graduated I went to work at an insurance company for $75 a week as a keypunch operator (I know I'm dating myself with this admission).  I hated that job and moved to a different position after 6 months or so.  Was really proud that I worked in an office as almost everyone I knew worked in the trades or did other low paying jobs like cleaning offices, working retail for a lot less than my cashier job, etc.  

I eventually worked my way up the ladder and now have a job I love, but I never forgot where I came from.  Many of my peers from back in the day retired early because their bodies gave out and they can't work any longer.  I don't look down on anyone or any job.  As long as you work to the best of your ability, I respect you and the job you do.