debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Oct 7, 2017 14:02:42 GMT -5
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 7, 2017 18:25:47 GMT -5
Thanks....heading home, super deserving tv time🤓
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Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 10, 2017 9:25:16 GMT -5
I am done with formerly-$5-a-page guy!!! I've been trying to work out a time line with him for over a week, I have not changed my delivery date, he requested a sample which I sent and can be important for estimating work. When I tried to get specifics - he up and bailed and didn't have time for it - at all. As I have been consistent on the page length, type of paper, and the delivery date, and the 4 pages I sent him were in good shape - I can really only interpret this as he took on something else after I had thought I had reserved time with him. So I am done. I guess that leaves me with $85-an-hour gal. Will now begin another negotiation but I am only one week out from when I am delivering so I think it leave me in a poor position to try and get things done quickly. I had started with FFAP guy on September 22. Also - I do not know if 85 gal has copyedited dissertations for our department - I don't think so - other guy had so I had some confidence in that. Although - I was put off by a poorly worded sentence on his website!
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Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 11, 2017 22:22:32 GMT -5
I found a typo on her page Decided to not do 85gal and am looking here www.the-efa.org/for some editors. It is so difficult to know who to engage, but I've sent a message out to one I picked to see if she thought my project was a fit, and what rates/turnaround times.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 12, 2017 11:31:10 GMT -5
turnaround times and prices were fine. 10-14 days, not too dissimilar to FFAP guy. comes out to 6.25 per 250 words.
Very professional to communicate with! Hope the editing is good and this is a deal!
but wow - what a difference to the set up, at least thus far. Dude was 2-3 days to get a reply. I sent my request late last night, had a response by the time I checked. Sent some info, and already responded.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 12, 2017 12:36:11 GMT -5
just adding - price is similar turnaround time about half.
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Works4me
Senior Member
Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Oct 24, 2017 5:15:38 GMT -5
Was FFAP guy only wanting to do your job if he had nothing else to do work wise? Kind of like the girl who is asked to the prom by one guy and them dumps him at the last minute because she got a better invitation.
I've also noticed that that when people some people become self-employed/consultants, they only work when they absolutely have to. Some people seem to want to slide by doing as little as they can to survive where as others put all their energy into professional organizations or good works/charity that take up all their time, not leaving them with enough time to work.
I think you are well rid of that guy. You don't have the time to coddle a professional relationship in which you are the customer. You are too busy for any of that. You need someone that responds promptly and professionally. Fingers crossed that you have found her.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Oct 24, 2017 8:51:09 GMT -5
Thanks Works4me - I am hopeful. FFAPG had a phd in a relevant field and had done dissertations for our department, so that was a plus - but given the communication issues, I had to move on and I won't go back. Just as an example, when he said he couldn't do it he offered to try to hook me up with a colleague, I said please send the name. It took 6 days for a reply. New person is MA in professional writing and has listed published journal articles that she had copy written for the authors in social sciences and humanities, I got a page and a half sample edit and it was good. It is hard to decide if someone with a phd-level read or good line editing is the most important piece, but I'm going to go with the line editing as that is what my advisor required and it was obtainable via the freelancers listing. She has had my document for 6 days now, and I should hear back in about 6 more. It was a total of 145 pages at the end (including title, TOC, refs, etc. - I had been trying to whittle the lit review down the past year and took about 20 pages out). Total cost was 850. Just for fun, I'm going to submit that with my tuition reimbursement and see if the company will pick up 50% of it.....Never occurred to me but someone mentioned what if they would and I'll try to sneak it in. It was a requirement from my advisor so seems possible?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 9:28:55 GMT -5
If any are interested: I've gone through the returned documents, and have some mixed feelings. There was a lot of good suggestions, some sentence restructures that seemed like the same only different, not improved, and some restructures that made it so wrong one would think I didn't know anything about the topic! Hope I caught all of those and put them back to sense. A few sentences I found to be really awkward with an easy fix and wondered she hadn't made some suggestions there. Two missed typos, and one added typo . Overall, I think I am satisfied with the results. Would appreciate if debthaven or others experienced could chime in on expectations for professional editing results. I understand no one person, for a fairly reasonable per page price, can catch or rework everything, and I am in a very technical aspect of the overall field, so even someone with good content knowledge might struggle with the concepts and minutia a bit. If I have to read it one more time, I may burn it and destroy all electronic copies in an effort to ward off insanity. So on that score, it was good to have someone else go through it. The missed typos unfortunately made it through to my advisor. Hopefully I will get one more chance at revision before it is sent to committee, but - at the same time - hoping not too much requested on revisions! aka - i don't want to read it again, just maybe revamp a table or graph, reword a specific paragraph......
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 2, 2017 12:43:19 GMT -5
some restructures that made it so wrong one would think I didn't know anything about the topic
Rukh O'Rorke that is a BIG problem! Did you tell her?! You absolutely should ... she should be made aware of it. That shouldn't happen. If she's not clear about something, she needs to check with you. It is NOT OK for her to switch things around so much that she changes the meaning. I'm not saying I'd never use her again, but I'd definitely try someone else next time (but not at $85 a page). I'd find somebody else you like using the same website, see how it goes with that person, compare, and decide who you prefer.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 13:56:49 GMT -5
some restructures that made it so wrong one would think I didn't know anything about the topic
Rukh O'Rorke that is a BIG problem! Did you tell her?! You absolutely should ... she should be made aware of it. That shouldn't happen. If she's not clear about something, she needs to check with you. It is NOT OK for her to switch things around so much that she changes the meaning. I'm not saying I'd never use her again, but I'd definitely try someone else next time (but not at $85 a page). I'd find somebody else you like using the same website, see how it goes with that person, compare, and decide who you prefer. Thanks for the input, maybe I haven't found "the person" . Not like I could afford "the person" on the regular or anything.... It was only 3 sentences I think where this occurred, out of 145 pages, but it sure scared me when I saw it and I worried about if there were others I may have missed... I sent you a sample via PM so you can see what you think.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 14:06:24 GMT -5
but on general thoughts on copyediting in academia.....I've been cogitating on it recently.... I liked the idea of thinking on it as an investment in your career.....but on the other hand, how backwards is a system where a person making $50k a year working 80 hour weeks as faculty pays someone else $50/hour for editing an article they spent 1000s of hours on and who doesn't get paid when it's published? thesiswhisperer.com/2017/10/11/i-call-bullshit-on-academias-reliance-on-hope-labour/this blog posting concerns the academic function of article reviewers - who also don't get paid! I'm trying so hard to get up to the next level of my profession, but in some ways, it's a little thankless.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 2, 2017 14:14:15 GMT -5
Having seen your PM, I think you need a simple copy-editor ... someone to check for typos, spelling errors, any lack of clarity, but not to rework mangle your info.
She completely changed the meaning of the sentences you sent me. Plus, yours were clearer in the first place!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
At this point I'd definitely try somebody else.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 14:25:40 GMT -5
Thanks! I appreciate your expert opinion.
I will not use her again.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 2, 2017 14:34:34 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke remember you were basically happy with her, but yes that change in meaning was a big mistake. Remember how everybody here always says "Nobody will ever care about your money as much as you will"? It's the same for your thesis / academic papers. Nobody will ever care about them as much as you do ... not even the $85/page or hour (can't remember) lady . So as hard as it is, YOU need to ALWAYS do a last re-read, even if you pay someone else to proof it for you. But given what I've seen over the years, I think you only really need a proofreader. Also, doesn't your academic advisor tell you if anything needs to be rewritten/reworked? E's did. She definitely did it for E's Lit Review (which was the only thing E sent her before I went through it). Remember, you're getting closer every day! ETA: Could your DD go over it for you, just looking for typos or spelling errors? I know not every college student can.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 14:56:19 GMT -5
Sent pm regarding other point/advisor input.
I did go over every change.....rejected some, or reworked others...but I may have favored her suggestions more than I should have on some. I did not go over all the text she left unmarked, hence typos uncaught.
Yes, DD is excellent and has final proofed several conference submissions for me. If she is available I'll ask her to do final proof.
Not sure now if I should ask advisor for another week and go over again? If I go to committee with 3 typos and maybe 1-2 garbled sentences? I can't think it so out of range? I've found typos in journal articles....also in the course of my research I found two equations that were typoed and incorrect!
I still get 1-2 more chances to fix. 1if advisor had changes before committee and one after committee before filing with college.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Nov 2, 2017 15:12:58 GMT -5
I would inform your advisor that you caught a couple of last-minute types, and ask if they want an updated version without the typos or not.
But I would not ask for an extension.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 15:38:57 GMT -5
Ok, sent updated document!
I refuse to look at it again!!!! As far as I know right now its perfect and I refuse to find out otherwise!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 16:22:05 GMT -5
but on general thoughts on copyediting in academia.....I've been cogitating on it recently.... I liked the idea of thinking on it as an investment in your career.....but on the other hand, how backwards is a system where a person making $50k a year working 80 hour weeks as faculty pays someone else $50/hour for editing an article they spent 1000s of hours on and who doesn't get paid when it's published? thesiswhisperer.com/2017/10/11/i-call-bullshit-on-academias-reliance-on-hope-labour/this blog posting concerns the academic function of article reviewers - who also don't get paid! I'm trying so hard to get up to the next level of my profession, but in some ways, it's a little thankless. Does anyone get paid for publishing in academia? Not in English. But then I never knew anyone paid for copyediting. It might be my field. We published some big name writers (in our discipline), and their copyeditors were the assistant editors of the journals. We also fixed their citations and even looked up the articles when we suspected they misquoted. But we always made our changes as a "query." ETA: I was an assistant editor for College English, which was a major player in the field. I mention that only to affirm that I am not talking about a second- or third-tier journal.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 2, 2017 17:38:09 GMT -5
but on general thoughts on copyediting in academia.....I've been cogitating on it recently.... I liked the idea of thinking on it as an investment in your career.....but on the other hand, how backwards is a system where a person making $50k a year working 80 hour weeks as faculty pays someone else $50/hour for editing an article they spent 1000s of hours on and who doesn't get paid when it's published? thesiswhisperer.com/2017/10/11/i-call-bullshit-on-academias-reliance-on-hope-labour/this blog posting concerns the academic function of article reviewers - who also don't get paid! I'm trying so hard to get up to the next level of my profession, but in some ways, it's a little thankless. Does anyone get paid for publishing in academia? Not in English. But then I never knew anyone paid for copyediting. It might be my field. We published some big name writers (in our discipline), and their copyeditors were the assistant editors of the journals. We also fixed their citations and even looked up the articles when we suspected they misquoted. But we always made our changes as a "query." ETA: I was an assistant editor for College English, which was a major player in the field. I mention that only to affirm that I am not talking about a second- or third-tier journal. No but the blog post I linked made an argument for paying reviewers 🏋️♀️ In the comments section, someone was grousing on the publisher making money off the whole business and everyone doing the work for free.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 18:35:22 GMT -5
Does anyone get paid for publishing in academia? Not in English. But then I never knew anyone paid for copyediting. It might be my field. We published some big name writers (in our discipline), and their copyeditors were the assistant editors of the journals. We also fixed their citations and even looked up the articles when we suspected they misquoted. But we always made our changes as a "query." ETA: I was an assistant editor for College English, which was a major player in the field. I mention that only to affirm that I am not talking about a second- or third-tier journal. No but the blog post I linked made an argument for paying reviewers 🏋️♀️ In the comments section, someone was grousing on the publisher making money off the whole business and everyone doing the work for free. I guess that is field dependent. NCTE, which publishes several major English journals, didn't really make money off of these. The universities were expected to provide support for the editor (a professor) and half of the cost of the staff. The staff consisted of three half-time assistant editors. Journals aren't a money maker for the professional associations that publish them. The reviewers in English generally consider it a line-item on their vitae. Only major players are invited to be reviewers. And the journals are very careful not to overburden them. They generally got one or two a year since a host of professors (and associate professors) wanted to participate. But, again, this was for one of the very top journals. And a lot has probably changed since the 1980s/early 1990s. My ex used to say that English was the only field where people paid to play. You went to conferences where you paid your own way to read papers. You were thrilled when you published something and got no more than "copies" in pay. I am sure he is wrong about the "only" part, but that is pretty much how it worked in English. Remember that no one could make any money off a patent or anything based on our work.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Nov 3, 2017 9:50:22 GMT -5
Interesting info @bamafan1954, and someone's comments regarding the publishers making money off the enterprise may not reflect reality - especially in response to a blog post.
I will attest to the fact that it is expensive to keep up with the literature in my field. I may be out of luck when I separate from the university and fear my research capabilities will dwindle.
Once before going back to school I was doing research for a client. You could read the abstract, but it was $25 to download the article. I know you can get better prices with subscriptions, but there are a lot of journals to cover.
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Works4me
Senior Member
Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Nov 3, 2017 17:33:48 GMT -5
I would definitely communicate your issues to the $85 an hour woman. Garbling the meaning of sentences is a big deal to me and so are typos. No matter how much or how little I am paying someone, I expect a professional job to be done. Frankly, at her rates, there is no excuse for what she did and what she missed.
ETA - Break a Pencil, kind of like saying "break a leg" in the theater.
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