AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 30, 2011 0:57:05 GMT -5
dictator who had invaded his neighbors, funded terrorism outside his country, had in his possession weapons of mass destruction, had convinced the world he had active WMD programs, and who had worked with al qaeda, funded al qaeda, hosted al qaeda training camps and had openly threatened us with attacks. Not. All Boooosh/Cheney lies. Tried to kill Daddy...maybe...The French were right. And had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Macho cowboy thing. A catastrophe. A state of war had existed between the United States and the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq since January of 1991. In 1998, President Bill Clinton set US Policy as "regime change" in Iraq and listed several reasons- including the possession and pursuit of WMD. From 1991 through the attacks on the United States and eventual invasion of Iraq in March of 2003, there were 17 United Nations resolutions which the Saddam Hussein regime treated with contempt, while continuing to issue threats, and rattle sabres with the world. The case was made to Congress by President Bush and the legal justification for war was given by an overwhelming bi-partisan majority in October of 2002-- edit- six months before Bush used the Congressional authority to finally act. In spite of the accusations, President Bush's decision to invade Iraq was given due consideration by the United States Congress, the United Nations, and a careful, methodical decision was made in unison with a clear, strong, broad international mandate. We know now that some of the conclusions were incorrect, that strategy was wanting, and that many things could have (and still could be) done better. But those are the facts leading up to the invasion... What we're seeing now is real rogue, cowboy action. Obama has YET to address Congress, and ask for any kind of approval whatsoever.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 30, 2011 1:35:21 GMT -5
He didn't have time to address congress, the Senate voted unanimously to have a no fly zone. Even the Arab League said go ahead. He didn't LIE or make things up. Ridiculous.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 30, 2011 8:41:28 GMT -5
He didn't have time to address congress, the Senate voted unanimously to have a no fly zone. Even the Arab League said go ahead. He didn't LIE or make things up. Ridiculous. No Obama did not lie. He simply kept his mouth shut and did not follow Federal law. He had ample time to inform Congress in this age of instant communication. Now, if he declared a no fly zone over Japan, and considered attacking a runaway nuclear electric utility, thereby stopping radiation poisoning around the globe, let alone the Pacific ocean, he would have me on board.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 30, 2011 9:32:45 GMT -5
Who says he didn't. According to media sources he bnotified both sides of Congress both House and Senate his decision , Friday. Consult with? These are politicals, if your consulting with anyone it's your advisers, military and naturally leaders of the other nations that will be involved. Are you saying the leader of the house , his sworn foe on the political, is going to give him advice that wouldn't better be served by his own trusted advisor's and military and intelligence people? He is the commander in chief and none of those politicals are expert in these fields and I am sure he knew the flack he was going to get from all sides, all political, and just to hear more of that when he knew the slaughter of civilians were not going to happen on his watch if there was anything he could do to mitigate that happening if at all possible. If he gets political fall out from his decision, then he will get political fallout, so be it. Right or wrong on his decisions, he makes decisions, and I feel not off the cuff , but thought out decisions. As he said, they got this going in nine days , pretty impressive by my outlook, not six months or more as most of these type of decisions are done. Forgetting those who just are not comfortable as one posted a while ago with the man, the guy does have it together , is a leader, and definitely is the POTUS, no question about it. One can fault some of his ideas and on some possible have a point though not really have all the information, but to say he is not a leader, that is a falsehood. Whether the members of Congress are experts at anything is not what my point is, Libya did not pose any threat whatever to the USA and yet the POTUS unilaterally decided to commit US forces in an offensive act against a foreign government. He explained WHY he did what he did, it was legal, now we'll have to see how it plays out , and here we all can have our opinions of "should he have done it or not." Me, I feel he should, you, possible feel should have stayed out of it, slaughter or not, it's not our business. Just another decision you can consider to help one decide who gets ones vote in the next election.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 30, 2011 9:36:58 GMT -5
He didn't have time to address congress, the Senate voted unanimously to have a no fly zone. Even the Arab League said go ahead. He didn't LIE or make things up. Ridiculous. Leave it to liberal dupes to give any weight to what the Terror League has to say...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 30, 2011 9:40:04 GMT -5
Bush was dead wrong on some things. That's different than saying he "lied". Much has been made of the "vigorous debate in the intelligence community" over whether or not Saddam Hussein possessed WMD's and in particular the testimony that he could use unmanned UAVs to deliever WMD to the east coast of the U.S. But let's face it- liberals bought it, too. President Clinton, the author of the US policy of regime change in Iraq sure did. And we had a LOT of time to debate it, and a LOT of time to object. Few did. President Obama sure did. And on the same grounds he would have to oppose his own policy in Libya, but I guess if you're a liberal dupe President you do whatever and nobody in the liberal dupe media calls you on it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 30, 2011 12:26:39 GMT -5
if you're a liberal dupeOh good Paul, I'm glad to see you've adopted warsaw's erudite ways. This will further elevate the debate over here. Just illustrating the offense by being offensive. IMHO, the name-calling has gone too far, and gone on for too long. Nobody will call that liberal dupe on it, so I figured I'd do it and in so doing "raise awareness".
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 30, 2011 12:29:46 GMT -5
if you're a liberal dupeOh good Paul, I'm glad to see you've adopted warsaw's erudite ways. This will further elevate the debate over here. Just illustrating the offense by being offensive. IMHO, the name-calling has gone too far, and gone on for too long. Nobody will call that liberal dupe on it, so I figured I'd do it and in so doing "raise awareness". And thank you!
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 30, 2011 12:39:00 GMT -5
if you're a liberal dupeOh good Paul, I'm glad to see you've adopted warsaw's erudite ways. This will further elevate the debate over here. Just illustrating the offense by being offensive. IMHO, the name-calling has gone too far, and gone on for too long. Nobody will call that liberal dupe on it, so I figured I'd do it and in so doing "raise awareness".
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 30, 2011 13:09:06 GMT -5
Barack Obama Is Now Admitting Some of the Libyan Rebels May Not Be Friendly Posted by Erick Erickson (Profile) Wednesday, March 30th at 5:00AM EDT 9 Comments This is so insane it makes my head hurt. In an interview with NBC News and another with CBS News, Barack Obama is finally admitting some of the rebels we are helping in Libya may not be friendly to the United States. “I’m not ruling it out. But I’m also not ruling it in,” he added on NBC, but cautioned that though Washington’s knowledge of the make-up of the rebels was improving, it was not yet comprehensive. Those members of the Libyan opposition who had met top US officials, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, had been fully “vetted,” he said. But some opposition individuals may be unfriendly to the United States, he added. “That’s why I think it’s important for us not to jump in with both feet. But to carefully consider what are the goals of the opposition,” Obama told CBS. So, in other words, we’re more fully engaged and committing Marines to the situation, but we are not yet sure what the goals are of the opposition. Likewise, “some opposition individuals may be unfriendly to the United States.” Um . . . which ones? And how can we be sure that, should things go the way Obama wants that these rebels don’t wind up in charge? He went in without a plan. This is what that looks like. www.redstate.com/erick/2011/03/30/barack-obama-is-now-admitting-some-of-the-libyan-rebels-may-not-be-friendly/
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 30, 2011 14:08:41 GMT -5
This quote pretty much captures Obama's entire presidency. He's "present" (sometimes) and that's about it...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 30, 2011 14:53:42 GMT -5
This quote pretty much captures Obama's entire presidency. He's "present" (sometimes) and that's about it... Not pointing fingers, might be a violation of...yeah that thing with two similer letters but methinks same quote might be directed... "He's "present" (sometimes) and that's about it..." at ...
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 30, 2011 16:55:46 GMT -5
This quote pretty much captures Obama's entire presidency. He's "present" (sometimes) and that's about it..
Ed have you noticed his critic are now coming from the left as well lately..?? And rep Robert Andrews D N.J. was just one Dem who has been very critical of Obama's Libyan speech on Monday in an interview with MSNBC..
The big concern about Obama is he doesn't have a clue who the rebels in Libya are and he doesn't know who those people are..
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 30, 2011 21:01:51 GMT -5
"Leave it to liberal dupes to give any weight to what the Terror League has to say... "
A. Thinking the Arab League is terrorist shows you've been listening to Fox/Rush talking heads and are sorely misled. B."liberal" is saying stupid, which I never said. Pub has no such connotation. C. To be a dupe, you have to be lied to. There are myriad lies you are told , and repeat. Tell me a Dem one that isn't just misled OPINION. D. WRONG ON THE FACTS AGAIN. Sorely misled.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 30, 2011 21:08:48 GMT -5
Hey hello fromWarsaw (aka Keith Olbermann)...here's a question for you
How do you equate success of the rebels in Libya with success of the United States when we don't know who those people are..??
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 30, 2011 21:14:29 GMT -5
E. Of course there are Libyan Rebels who don't like the USA. After years of Adventurist/Covert/chickenhawk cowboy/oilmen Pubs they have to relearn. Nothing like Ghaddafi's AHs though. F. And I am quite erudite thanks, just frustrated by Mega rich Pub swine and their ability, with huge amounts of money, to mislead. I also am a horrible typist and have Windows 98- all 98s are on their last legs. "Pub dupes" is much more insulting to the GD Mega rich elitist Pubs, actually. I have nothing against the misled except their stubborness in the face of their facts being proven WRONG day in and day out. Luckily the information age will come for them as well as 3rd World Arabs...
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 30, 2011 21:19:10 GMT -5
What about the rebels?? Who is it that we're going to see step into the vacuum if it were created by Khadahfy leaving?? There are tons of these questions that the American people have today and hopefully someone, someplace in our White House can find some answers and brief us..or is that asking too much??
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 30, 2011 21:19:42 GMT -5
Post deleted due to content.
Tennesseer/Moderator
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 30, 2011 21:25:01 GMT -5
The French have already recognized the Council of Bengazi, and the Foreign Minister may have just defected. Another bit of Fox/Pub/Rush fear mongering. "The cure for any problems with democracy is MORE democracy". Elitist mega rich Pubs don't like that. Stability first and only. Pfffft!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 30, 2011 21:32:10 GMT -5
More disturbing news tonight on CNN regarding Lybia, a reporter, Anderson I believe, is suggesting the insurgents, the ones who are actually in the field, if they # total, 1500 it's a lot, and most likely as far as actually on the lines 100's.
The few military officers who have crossed over, if they try to give basics, how to meet a offense, flanks, dig in, are not respected, listened too, and if true, this is a revolt that is over before it started.
Possible we and the coalition never knew the real facts of this and were influenced by the street #'s that demonstrated but that doesn't mean it's the same in #'s when Gaddafi's turns his troops loose.
Also , from what he and other journalist see, it is a insurgency of just young reg folks, students, shop keepers, normal people. If there are fundamentalist there they have no in fluence, in fact welcome US and coalition aid, he wouldn't be surprised if some anti western types present, where wouldn't you find a few, but thats not what this is about , and the #'s disturb me, if so , as I said, it's not going to happen.
I am thinking Qaddafi's people, commanders know all this, they have spies all over and probably have picked up on the #'s , even if there were 2500 tops , untrained, no heavy weapons, anti tank , automatic weapons and even if had a few , no idea how to use them effectively, it's not good.
Possible why staying with Gaddafi, will be rewarded after they take back control might be the answer.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 30, 2011 21:32:53 GMT -5
The French have already recognized the Council of Bengazi, and the Foreign Minister may have just defected. Another bit of Fox/Pub/Rush fear mongering. "The cure for any problems with democracy is MORE democracy". Elitist mega rich Pubs don't like that. Stability first and only. Pfffft! Excuse me again Mr hello fromWarsaw but you have NOT answered my questions tonight...and what is with all the Fox/Pub/Rush fear mongering nonsense?? How can I watch Fox, discuss important news of the day here, chew gum and drink diet Coke at the same time...not easy and only watch Megan Kelly on Fox who is having her third baby btw.. Again think about this question and all of it's ramifications: How do you equate success of the rebels in Libya with success of the United States when we don't know who those people are..??
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 30, 2011 21:54:32 GMT -5
Seriously? She has three kids?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 30, 2011 21:59:54 GMT -5
As I said, the French have recognized the Council of Bengazi (including a defected Interior minister), and people in the know seem to feel they know enough about them. That will not include people who watch just Fox/Rush/Pubs. Although Megan is cute..too cute ;D
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Apr 2, 2011 14:22:57 GMT -5
For those who might have forgot , the uprising is still going on, US combat role is over today for the moment, mistake on the battlle field cost lives of 13 insurgents, first report was that some of Gaddafi's troops moved into the insurgents lines and fired back at planes flying over head of the alliance and they then came under fire and also killing some of the insurgents but now it is being reported that insurgents were firing in the air in their way of celebration of what ever, and came under fire from the coalition Air Force planes. Still so many untrained troops in their ranks though most of the untrained are being kept back to protect their flanks as they get trained and front lines are being manned by former military and those who have had almos a month of training, in handling weapons, cleaning them and put into groups of 6/7 men under command of a former soldier, 1/2 squads , and while not fully trained, are understanding the basics, possible cover and concealment and most importabnt, obeying orders. -------------------------------------------------------------------- news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110402/ap_on_bi_ge/af_libya-------------------------------------------------------------------- [Click on link to read article] --------------------------------------------------------------------- By BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Ben Hubbard And Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – 19 mins ago BENGHAZI, Libya – "A NATO airstrike intended to thwart Moammar Gadhafi's forces killed 13 rebel fighters in eastern Libya instead, the opposition said Saturday, but they described it as an "unfortunate accident" and stressed it did not diminish their support for the international air campaign. The rebels' response to the attack — blaming it on a mistake within their ranks — highlighted their heavy dependence on the international air campaign as they face the superior military power of the longtime Libyan leader. The misfire also showed the challenges the coalition faces in identifying targets without coordination with forces on the ground. "As regrettable as it may be, we understand that we might have to give up lives for the greater good. We have to look at the bigger picture," opposition spokesman Mustafa Gheriani said. "This is a war and the lines are so fluid going back and forth, so it's natural that mistakes will happen." The slain fighters were hit Friday night as they moved forward, attempting to take back the oil city of Brega, while airstrikes were in progress. Seven fighters were injured. Another opposition spokesman, Abdel-Hafidh Ghoga, said it was an example of the lack of coordination in the ranks that has proven a key obstacle to victory over the more organized Libyan military"
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Apr 2, 2011 14:37:26 GMT -5
This is a analist from debka on the recently finished In the UK witht he representatives of NATO regsrding Lybia. Not all good in many ways, as well as at the end it touches on the other four hot spots in the Middle east, Egypt, Behrain, Iran's meddling in, Yeman and also Syria. Remember, if you read the article , it isn't bonified happenings, news here, but some news but also heavy analist by Debras specialist on their thoughts of what is going down in these places.. They do have it right most /many times and it gives some insite into what is really happening. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.debka.com/article/20809/---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [CLICK ON LINK TO READ THE ARTICLE] -------------------------------------------------------------------- First coalition cracks as Qaddafi digs in for guerrilla war West divided on Libya. More shocks in Bahrain, Egypt, Yemen, Syria DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis March 30, 2011, 12:00 PM "London conference attended by 40 foreign ministers and various delegations ended Tuesday, March 29 with the US and Britain ranged in favor of arming the Libyan rebels and France and Italy against. It also passed control of the coalition offensive to a “contact group” with the vague brief to map out Libya’s future. The conference therefore relegated the Libyan conflict to the same uncertain fate as the other Arab uprisings, which still face more bloody paroxysms on the road to unknowable outcomes. debkafile’s analysts nevertheless discern half a dozen fixed points, not all of them optimistic, in the fog of uncertainty:"
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Apr 2, 2011 14:37:32 GMT -5
Unions are good for middle class
Dems care about middle class
Dems care about black people, or other minority groups.
That's a few pretty big lies from the establishment. [/size]
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Apr 2, 2011 14:44:56 GMT -5
To round out the current reports, this is the latest from aljazeer on the Lybia engagement. According to them , the Insurgents are getting covert training by special forces units, including US Special Forces in use of fweapons, basic training as well from Egyptian units and personnel from their military in secret enclves in Lybia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Click on link to read article] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Africa Libyan rebels 'receiving covert training' "Rebel source tells Al Jazeera about training offered by US and Egyptian special forces in eastern Libya. Last Modified: 02 Apr 2011 19:22 US and Egyptian special forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told. An unnamed rebel source related how he had undergone training in military techniques at a "secret facility" in eastern Libya. He told our correspondent Laurence Lee reporting from the rebel-stronghold of Benghazi that he was sent to fire Katyusha rockets but was given a simple, unguided version of the rocket instead. "He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He didn't say they were sourced from Egypt, but that was their route through. "He said these were state-of-the-art, heat-seeking rockets and that they needed to be trained on how to use them, which was one of the things the American and Egyptian special forces were there to do." Our correspondent said the intriguing development has raised several uncomfortable questions, about Egypt's private involvement and what the arms embargo exactly means. "There is also the question of whether or not the outside world should arm the rebels, when in fact they [rebels] are already being armed covertly." Our correspondent added that since the rebels appear to be receiving covert support in terms of weaponry and training, it is not surprising that they are not inclined to criticise NATO openly."
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Apr 5, 2011 9:12:26 GMT -5
Latest from Libya..seems Rebels, Insurgents and Gaddafis forces are in a semi stalement, Gaddafis artillery, armor still to much for insurgents but coilition air strikes are keeping them, Gaddafis forces at bay. Insurgents to load first tanker with oil so will be worth amny millions to give them working capital to pay salaries,. shortages food, fuel in Tripoli have residents unhappy and Gaddafi's envoys negotiating with Turks as intermediators are willing to compromise , promising many reforms , insurgents to meet klater in week with Turks to offer their demands, so in some ways we are in a negotiating status now, neither side able to breakn the stalemate, and are thinking possible some compromise might be possible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Click on link to read article] --------------------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201145115121209216.html----------------------------------------------------------------- "Fighting is going on in oil town of Brega where the opposition forces have made some gains [Reuters] The rebel forces had to retreat almost 10kms towards the east from Ajdabiya in the face of an offensive mounted by Muammar Gaddafi's troops, sources have told Al Jazeera. On Tuesday, there were reports of heavy exchange of fire between the two sides. Also, our correspondent said that fighting is going on in oil town of Brega where the opposition forces have made some gains. Intense fighting was reported but the rebels were being challenged by Gaddafi loyalists who have taken position inside the university campus. However, Western airstrikes aided the rebels here, as they destroyed two of Gaddafi's military vehicles that allowed rebels to edge forward. The frontline has been bogged down around Brega for nearly a week with Gaddafi's advantage in tanks and artillery cancelled out by NATO-led air strikes which effectively back the rebels. After a series of rapid rebel advances followed by headlong retreats, the the pro-democracy fighters have at least held their ground in this oil town, putting their best trained forces in to battle for the town and keeping the disorganised volunteers away. Abdel-Bast Abibi, a rebel officer, said the two sides battled inside the city until nightfall and then the rebels moved back to the outskirts. It was a quiet night, but an air strike early on Tuesday hit a convoy of eight pro-Gaddafi military vehicles advancing toward the rebel positions, he told Associated Press news agency. On Monday, columns of opposition fighters drove up the main coastal highway, regaining ground they had given up the day before, but the effective use of artillery and landmines by Gaddafi's troops kept them at bay. "New Brega is under control of our forces and we are mopping up around the university," said Lt Muftah Omar Hamza, a former member of the Libyan air force who has joined the rebels. New Brega is a largely residential area, and is separated from the town's oil facilities by a stretch of highway and a university campus."
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