Enlisting in the military

[flutterby]

After two years of me being able to talk him out of it, my arguments have failed and my ODS (age 20) has enlisted in the Marines. I have questions that I'm hoping those of you with military backgrounds or knowledge can help me with.

Apparently:

*He's in delayed enlistment so he could finish this semester of college. He ships out in June.

*He's currently in an open?? contract until his final signing in June.

*It becomes a closed? contract that specifically states the MOS (or whatever they call the specific job/training he's going into) when he    signs in June.

*Once he signs the closed contract, he's guaranteed that path.

*He can back out up until the point of final signing.

This is what he's been told. I don't want to question the honesty of his recruiter, but I question the honesty of his recruiter. Mostly because I have no experience or knowledge about anything military related. My biggest worry is that they can change the game plan on him and he ends up in infantry and is killed by a roadside bomb in some country I can't pronounce or find on a map. I'm scared to death for him and wish I could forbid him, but I can't (believe me I've tried!!), so I'm wondering if what they've told him matches others' experience.

Any information would be appreciated. And of course I should add that I'm extremely proud of him, just very very worried.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

 I'm proud of his decision. An old saying was you could tell if a recruiter was lying if his lips were moving. That time has changed. Read the contract. "Once he signs the closed contract, he's guaranteed that path." Yes but I'm sure there are goals he has to meet for his MOS. I'm sure they matched his abilities up to a program. But if he doesn't succeed in that program then they can reassign him another MOS.  Look at the fall back options. 

[Rob Base 2.0]

You are CORRECT not to trust the recruiter. I just "retired" 6 months ago with 22 years in the Army.

Until he signs final contract he can back out

In the DEP they will probably try to get him to do some pre-training too (like fitness exercises, drill & ceremony and stuff).

Read the contract

Note: no matter what "job" he gets, everyone who joins is probably considered a "Marine" first (meaning Infantry). Just like In the Army, everyone is a "Soldier" first. And I am sure just like there is a "needs of the Army" clause, I am sure there is a "needs of the Marines" clause. Meaning they can assign him anywhere to do anything even if it is not in his career field. Example. In height of Iraq & trash-canistan Army Artllery men were forced to train and become MIlitary Police due to shortages / need.

That being said, depending on his job field most of that will probably never happen, but this is worst case.

I did budget work (mostly office) and managed to avoid most of that stuff.

What job / career did he get? Is he physically fit?

[Shooby]

  My son is on delayed enlistment and leaving for the Air Force at the end of March.  I was very happy with his recruiter.  He isn't slick or sleazy.  He seems to be a very stand up guy.  He explained the process step by step and in detail.  Obviously the Marines is a very physically tough unit.  He will be challenged.  
  Just curious why would you try to "talk him out of it"?  My son had talked about the Marines for years.  And, many of his friends went to the Air Force and having talked with them, that is what he decided on.  I would not have tried to talk my son out of joining.  It is his life and his choice.  I did discuss with him the ramifications of joining but i told him that it was completely his decision and I would be proud of him either way.
  Not sure the term on the Marines but the AF is a 4 year commitment.  So, in 4 yrs if he really doesn't like it, he can leave.  It also opens up a world of opportunity for them in a way that might not be available otherwise.
  As for the jobs you will get, that is really dependent on the ASVAB scores.  The ASVAB is really important.  You are qualified for jobs based on that score.  If he didn't score well, you might have him study and retake it.  Fortunately, my son did his Associates in Electrical and Building Construction at a tech school.  So, he scored very highly on the electrical/mechanical portions which have allowed him his pick of jobs.
  However, he is under their command so if they decide he is going to peel potatoes, then that is what he is going to have to do.  All in all, i am very proud of him and really believe this is something that will really move him forward in life.  Good luck.

[flutterby]

Thanks so much for the responses so far!

He's very physically fit. He does PT (physical training) with other enlistees (or some type of group of Marines and future Marines) once a week for a month or two now. I'm not worried about him passing the physical parts.

He did really well on the technical aspect of the ASVAB, though I've forgotten the score now. I'm not sure how well he did on the test overall. I can ask him. His training will be as a drone pilot, which at least to me seems safer and a skill he can use in the future if it takes off like it's supposed to. His enlistment will be five years active, three inactive, and he'll get his journeyman's in that time.

I'll ask what happens if he doesn't succeed at that path and what the fall back is. I didn't even think of that, so thank you.

As for why I was trying to talk him out of it, I don't have a good answer. I'm his mom. I want him close to home and safe, or what I perceive as safer anyway. I know I'm still under the erroneous and outdated mindset that the military is great for kids with no other good options. But he's a college kid. He has plenty of other good options. He could stay here and be safe and finish his degree and follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!    I know it's not rational, but there it is.

[Shooby]

Mar 3, 2017 8:53:52 GMT -5 flutterby said:

Thanks so much for the responses so far!

He's very physically fit. He does PT (physical training) with other enlistees (or some type of group of Marines and future Marines) once a week for a month or two now. I'm not worried about him passing the physical parts.

He did really well on the technical aspect of the ASVAB, though I've forgotten the score now. I'm not sure how well he did on the test overall. I can ask him. His training will be as a drone pilot, which at least to me seems safer and a skill he can use in the future if it takes off like it's supposed to. His enlistment will be five years active, three inactive, and he'll get his journeyman's in that time.

I'll ask what happens if he doesn't succeed at that path and what the fall back is. I didn't even think of that, so thank you.

As for why I was trying to talk him out of it, I don't have a good answer. I'm his mom. I want him close to home and safe, or what I perceive as safer anyway. I know I'm still under the erroneous and outdated mindset that the military is great for kids with no other good options. But he's a college kid. He has plenty of other good options. He could stay here and be safe and finish his degree and follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!    I know it's not rational, but there it is.

I understand.  I struggled with that as well.  I teeter between wanting to keep him close to home but realizing that he needs to go out and be the man he wants to be.  So, that's tough.  As for a "fall back plan" who at 20 really had a fall back plan?  lol

[billisonboard]

Mar 3, 2017 9:16:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

... As for a "fall back plan" who at 20 really had a fall back plan?  lol

Few I am sure, but at 241 the US Marines have one for those who do not successfully complete the training for the job they sign up to do. That was what ken a.k.a OMK was referring to in his post.

[Deleted]

I would be freaking out if my son signed up for the military.  No Mom wants to send their son into a war.  I especially struggle with sending them to this war because it seems so pointless and stupid.  On the other hand I'd be really happy and proud if he took that kind of initiative and I do think it would be great for him.  There is not a chance in hell he ever would though.  It's definitely not his thing.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

  Bills. I knew one guy who was failing aviation electronics school and changed MOS to musician. Luckily he was able to do something he enjoyed (music). If you fail out of school you usually get assigned to a ship. As a new recruit you have no rank to get any technical job. You get assigned mess duty or chipping paint.

BTW I retired with 4 active and 22 reserves. Naval Aviation. Also retired from a company that manufactures drones. Worked on them for years.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

deminmaine that was not in reference to your comment. Just wanted to point out that after you are given a MOS based on your testing it is up to you to complete the given school and there was no second option, at least back in the dark ages. Sometimes people start and realize that wasn't what they wanted to do. I believe now there is a short time when you can cancel and get out. Maybe a few weeks.

[countrygirl2]

My son went in the military at age 21, he took testing before going in, he tested into satellite/microwave repair,

yes communications, not cooking. He had a hard time with physical training as he was never muscular but he

made it. With this particular MOS he had to make a commitment for 5 years. His dad said are you sure, what if

you don't like it, he said well I will just have to do it. He signed papers saying he was guaranteed this MOS or

he did not have to enlist.

Best thing that ever happened to him, he had not gone to college was lost in a few deadend jobs, did not like those.

His training was over a year, was heavy into computers and all that stuff, he told me when he went in he was not

about to be cannon fodder or learn a trade where he could not get a job when he got out.  As he said how many

tank drivers do you see in civilian life?

He loved the work, stayed in for 10 years, only went to Korea, almost got sent to Iraq then they decided not to

send his unit.  He got out when they were reducing the size, he had a handicap as one arm had been broken

and just wasn't quite right, had to sign all kinds of papers saying if something happened to it they wouldn't cover

it, we and he was surprised he got in, but his scores on the testing were super high

He signed up to have money taken out for a year for college, he got 2 years while in the military, then completed his

4 year degree when out.  He worked as a contractor till he completed it then got hired by the DOD where he still

works.  They do all kinds of conditional hiring and for some time he was wondering if he would get hired permanently.

He also had to purchase, which I still don't understand, his seniority from the military to take to the DOD which

gave him a much higher job and seniority ranking. It really helped him when his wife was able to become an American

citizen, she is Russian, he could go from Secret to Top Secret Clearance.  Right now he is still in S Korea, is supposed to be home Jan of 2018, we can hardly wait.  But they have such a hard time getting people for that assignment I hope it happens.  He is happy and its been a good life for him.  Just make sure they get something where in civilian life it helps them get a job. Now he kind of wishes he had gotten his masters. He will be 46 this year. He expects to finish his working

with the DOD well unless something drastic happens.

It's an odd job though as he could go into combat, with whatever assignment he gets even though he is a civilian, of

course he would be behind the scenes but still could be in the field overseeing com. Currently he is assigned over several

bases, here he will go to a fort in Georgia or Fort Drum, New York, there was another but I forget, it can be a good

career choice.

[Deleted]

I get the worry and if he does go through with it may as well jump on board with support.

From a YM perspective I would study the benefits closely and advise him to max his TSP. He can set himself up very nice for a career and financially with the benefits offered.

[Gardening Grandma]

My grandson just received his Naval Air Technical Training certificate and is home on leave before his first assignment.

Like you, my feelings are both pride in his service and his initiative combined with worry for his safety.

I did not try to talk him out of enlisting; rather I tried to becertain he was doing what HE wanted to do. So far, it seems to be a good choice, but I won't stop worrying about his safety.

[countrygirl2]

Life is full of risks

[sesfw]

follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!


I come from a very military family.  Father served in the infantry in China during the 30s, step-dad in WWII, both husbands, both brothers, son-in-law all served ......... and came out as MEN 

The best thing military does for people is get them away from the family unit and into the world .......... and see how other people live

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 3, 2017 11:03:49 GMT -5 sesfw said:

follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!


I come from a very military family.  Father served in the infantry in China during the 30s, step-dad in WWII, both husbands, both brothers, son-in-law all served ......... and came out as MEN 

The best thing military does for people is get them away from the family unit and into the world .......... and see how other people live

I think it also helps make great leaders.  My two best presidents/CEOs were ex-military. One was a Marine and one was a Navy Seal. 

I would struggle with this as a mom. I do think military helps turn boys into men but I am a worrier by nature and that is when my kids are just doing normal kid stuff. I would need to be medicated if they joined the military!

[raeoflyte]

Mar 3, 2017 11:03:49 GMT -5 sesfw said:

follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!


I come from a very military family.  Father served in the infantry in China during the 30s, step-dad in WWII, both husbands, both brothers, son-in-law all served ......... and came out as MEN 

The best thing military does for people is get them away from the family unit and into the world .......... and see how other people live

I respectfully believe that they would have grown up to be men with or without military service.  

I come from a very military family as well, but from what I can see military service may make a person more of what they are, but it has yet to change someone.  

[billisonboard]

Mar 2, 2017 22:23:30 GMT -5 flutterby said:

After two years of me being able to talk him out of it, my arguments have failed and my ODS (age 20) has enlisted in the Marines. ...

My personal view: Young people should always be talked out of joining the military. There is romance to joining that cooler heads should work to overcome. However when the attempt at talking them out of it fails, enlisting is the absolute correct thing to happen. In this particular case, I believe that his joining at any point over the past two years would not have worked out well, especially joining the Marines. (I remember looking out the window of my barracks in Navy Boot Camp in San Diego at the people on the running track of the Marine Boot Camp facility across the fence and thinking, "Hey, I can survive what I am going through. It could be a lot worse.") My thought is that he is now ready to face the challenges that are ahead of him.

And of course, YMMV.

[flutterby]

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to steer your child to other avenues besides the military, especially if they have other doors open to them. I also still think for some kids, it's their only good option, and can be a great path. I agree that since he allowed me to talk him out of it in the past, he wasn't 100% certain he wanted to enlist. I really think if he had done it at 18, he'd have looked at it as one big life-sized video game and been Hell bent to go infantry. Now at 20 he's being smarter, trying to choose a field of study that will see him into the future, and weighing all his options.

And that's where I'm trying to help him. I want to make sure he's going into this with all the information he can get and knowing what he can believe and what, if any, promises he should question for before signing on the dotted line.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Mar 3, 2017 12:53:19 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 3, 2017 11:03:49 GMT -5 sesfw said:

follow the path I had in mind for him damnit!


I come from a very military family.  Father served in the infantry in China during the 30s, step-dad in WWII, both husbands, both brothers, son-in-law all served ......... and came out as MEN 

The best thing military does for people is get them away from the family unit and into the world .......... and see how other people live

I think it also helps make great leaders.  My two best presidents/CEOs were ex-military. One was a Marine and one was a Navy Seal. 

I would struggle with this as a mom. I do think military helps turn boys into men but I am a worrier by nature and that is when my kids are just doing normal kid stuff. I would need to be medicated if they joined the military!

So that means I have been turned into a man since I joined the Army and "retired"!!!

<<wonders why people call me immature>>

😀

[ken a.k.a OMK]

<<wonders why people call me immature>>

You are judged on your words and actions. 

[Tiny]

 I think there are a lot of military jobs that don't put you on the front line...  I'm sure there's lots of mechanical stuff that needs to be maintained,  I'm sure there's lots of physical stuff that needs to be built and maintained.  I'm sure there's lots of people needed to USE the mechanical stuff and the physical stuff.  I'm sure there's lots of paper that needs to be pushed around.

I mostly know a handful of mid to late 50's aged acquaintances who have retired from the military (and I'm really jealous of their benefits AND their jobs to get it!!!)  and it seems they did mostly "non combat" stuff for most of their careers.   They kept flying things flying... and floating things floating... they worked construction... they managed departments(pushed papers)....  I think they 'actively' planned their careers and got where they wound up by pursuing the course- rather than assuming that if they signed up for X - X would happen.   <-- that's kind of common thinking for teens and early 20 somethings...  They don't always realize they have to MAKE it work...

I think the advice about knowing what happens if their Plan A for their military career doesn't work out.  I think THAT would be the biggest thing that would influence my "go for it" or "that doesn't sound like it ends well"...

[zibazinski]

Mar 3, 2017 17:04:32 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Mar 3, 2017 12:53:19 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I think it also helps make great leaders.  My two best presidents/CEOs were ex-military. One was a Marine and one was a Navy Seal. 

I would struggle with this as a mom. I do think military helps turn boys into men but I am a worrier by nature and that is when my kids are just doing normal kid stuff. I would need to be medicated if they joined the military!

So that means I have been turned into a man since I joined the Army and "retired"!!!

<<wonders why people call me immature>>

😀

Mr. Poopy Head!

[Shooby]

Mar 3, 2017 13:14:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 2, 2017 22:23:30 GMT -5 flutterby said:

After two years of me being able to talk him out of it, my arguments have failed and my ODS (age 20) has enlisted in the Marines. ...

My personal view: Young people should always be talked out of joining the military. There is romance to joining that cooler heads should work to overcome. However when the attempt at talking them out of it fails, enlisting is the absolute correct thing to happen. In this particular case, I believe that his joining at any point over the past two years would not have worked out well, especially joining the Marines. (I remember looking out the window of my barracks in Navy Boot Camp in San Diego at the people on the running track of the Marine Boot Camp facility across the fence and thinking, "Hey, I can survive what I am going through. It could be a lot worse.") My thought is that he is now ready to face the challenges that are ahead of him.

And of course, YMMV.

That's ridiculous.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

To elaborate on what Tiny said and my situation. It was 1968 and a big build-up in Vietnam. I was going to get drafted. With 3 years of Electrical Engineering I was looking into a military program to not go there and shoot people. I got into the Naval Air Reserves (knowing there was a 3 year active duty commitment). The important thing I did was to know the program well enough to use it to my advantage. I found out that the graduate from their aviation electronics school got first choice of duty stations. You may think my college training made that easy, but I knew nothing about aircraft and did have to study. I did graduate #1 with one of the highest scores they'd seen. But I paid back in tutoring some of my classmates to get through. Fast forward, I advanced quickly during active duty and spent 22 more years in the reserves mentoring and teaching. My civilian job was related in design and test of military test and simulation equipment. Later drone testing. Some of my 2 week annual active duty tours was working on my companies equipment with permission from my company (no cost to them ). Six tours in Iceland which was fun. My principal job was electronics on sub hunting aircraft. 

My point, sorry for the long bio,  is that recruiters try to match you up with something you are interested in and qualify for. After that it's up to you to make it happen. Best of luck to your son and everyone who posted here about relatives in the service.

[zibazinski]

My Dad could type when very few men could. That got him a better position on his ship.

[billisonboard]

Mar 3, 2017 21:46:57 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

My Dad could type when very few men could. That got him a better position on his ship.

Taking into account my goal going into the service was to get out and go to college, typing was the skill I went for when I signed up.

[zibazinski]

This was in the Stone Age. He already knew. They weren't going to teach him.

[Kolt!]

Honorable what your kids doing.

Side note not related to posters thread lol but in general to some comments

I just hope I'm never a parent that makes my kids feel like they need to be a teacher because of their parents but rather if they decide it's because they chose it themselves. I don't want my kids to ever feel like they have to choose a career that I want for them. I wouldn't try to tell my kids to join the military or even really suggest it but if they chose it on their own I'd support them.

I hope I'm like that atleast. I want to support them with any legal career choice lol. However I won't support them choosing not to work or go to school. That's the one thing I'm not okay with. If they're a legal adult they best be at school or having a job. >.>

[zibazinski]

Good lord, I'd kill my kids if they went into teaching. I think they saw how I was paid and treated and were smart enough to be smarter than I was. When I first started it was a career to be proud of. I was treated with respect and decently paid. 27 years later I bought 3 and got the hell out.