Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 21, 2011 21:19:52 GMT -5
I thought this piece might be of some interest to the P&M crowd. Forgiveness please if the subject has already been broached elsewhere. From the UK Guardian, Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media: The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.
A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.
The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.
The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.
The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries". Are these so-called "sock puppets" necessary to boost America's image abroad? Will the campaign be effective? Would the money be better spent bribing US generals not to carpet bomb third world villages? What say you?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 21, 2011 22:07:35 GMT -5
I wish I could do polls again.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 21, 2011 22:48:24 GMT -5
I don't know why they were disabled. Maybe too many frivolous questions and abuses like "Do you believe President Obama is smarter than a hamster?"
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Mar 21, 2011 22:53:47 GMT -5
It is called propagandizing. If this board is any indication it will be a big waste of money.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 21, 2011 22:53:55 GMT -5
I don't know why they were disabled. Maybe too many frivolous questions and abuses like "Do you believe President Obama is smarter than a hamster?" But why single out the polls? On the P&M board here, abuse and frivolousness is our stock in trade.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 21, 2011 23:05:21 GMT -5
Admin is still under the naive impression that you can be reformed into sensible debaters, Bill. Consider it yet another experiment in the proud, failure-ridden history of social engineering.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 21, 2011 23:16:15 GMT -5
Admin is still under the naive impression that you can be reformed into sensible debaters, Bill. Consider it yet another experiment in the proud, failure-ridden history of social engineering. What can you expect to come when you put the power to debate in the hand of the masses?
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Post by straydog on Mar 22, 2011 4:19:41 GMT -5
I voted no. Better for us to just drop the entitlement state and all this surveillance crap and start abiding by our constitution by trashing the collective ideology (after all, Muslims fight us as a collective, right?) and emphasizing individual freedoms and liberties. Besides, people aren't as stupid as our government seems to think. Most people can spot phony propaganda from a mile away. And then maybe instead of wanting to fight us, they might want to come over here and live better lives for themselves-at least I hope. One more thing-what is to stop them from pulling this kind of operation over here? Fake internet IDs? I guess that they will be the only ones allow to have them.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Mar 22, 2011 6:32:32 GMT -5
Facebook is using a facial recognition algorithms to identify to suggest tagged and untagged people you might know. Big Brother is here.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 22, 2011 9:35:44 GMT -5
I don't like it. It smacks of dishonesty, and I don't like dishonesty. As we can see on these boards, it's a rare occasion when the opinions of one will change those of another. Best you can do is, possibly, get another to think through their positions. Most people on message boards don't care to do this. They'd much rather convince others they're right (or, left, as the case may be ;D )
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 22, 2011 11:16:19 GMT -5
I agree, mmhmm. Or is that, mmhmm, I agree...? And now that they've disclosed the existence of the program, I'm wondering if they haven't given mods a convenient excuse to get rid of the hundreds of thousands of legitimate, ardently pro-military contributors out there. Just think: if even a few dozen legitimate posters get the boot worldwide under suspicion of being "sock puppets", the program would see negative returns. Not to mention that faking support for the USA reeks of desperation--whether or not the US military is actually desperate.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 22, 2011 11:26:07 GMT -5
We agree, Virgil. There's no need to be dishonest if your premise is righteous. While some might not agree, one must be true to oneself. While I'm not one for huge military, and would much rather see a world in which we could work together for the good of all, I'm also aware that's a pipe dream, and always has been. No harm, as I see it, in indulging it to a degree, but one must also be pragmatic in terms of living amongst humanity, warts and all. To eliminate the voices of those who might disagree with one's outlook is to erase the chance to learn, to grow, and to contribute. That, to me, is a big mistake!
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Mar 22, 2011 12:47:21 GMT -5
Otto Dietrich, Nuremburg Rally 1934..."we have only one request of the foreign press..that is only to print the truth about Germany" That ended well.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 22, 2011 13:27:48 GMT -5
LOL! No they can't:
18% (and growing) still believe Obama is a Muslim and another 46% have no idea what his religion is.
58% of Republicans do not believe or still doubt that Obama is an American.
47% of Americans incorrectly believe that Obama, rather than Bush, enacted TARP.
Here's one for the conservatives: 80% of Americans believe in Global Warming and 60% believe it is a threat.
70% believe that there was a link between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein.
Fortunately, the Truther movement is losing steam, with only 22% believing 9/11 was a government conspiracy
Here's one of my favorites: 87% of Americans believe in creationism and not evolution (LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!)
44% to 47% of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old (more LOL'ing)
20% of Americans still believe the sun revolves around the earth (that's 60 million people, approximately the population of the UK)
18% of Americans believe the earth is flat (for crying out loud!)
So, seriously, do you HONESTLY believe that most Americans can recognize propaganda when they see it, much less from "a mile away"?
Okay, granted, many of the statistics do not represent a majority, but the numbers are still staggeringly high. When one plugs in the actual numbers, we're talking about tens of millions of people, not a small cult.
(Links to statistics will be provided upon request)
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 22, 2011 14:00:35 GMT -5
LOL! No they can't:
<bunch of statistics>
(Links to statistics will be provided upon request)Is this a test to see if your first line is true??
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 22, 2011 14:10:33 GMT -5
I wonder if you're about to prove my point ...
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 22, 2011 14:16:33 GMT -5
I would be in the maybe camp. I want to see how successful past propaganda efforts have been, it seems like not very, so I think it probably won't be cost effective
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 22, 2011 14:37:18 GMT -5
Well, we've had two Red Scares, an era of McCarthyism, and 60 years of fearing and hating the Russians and communism. I doubt many Americans knew the first thing about Russia except what the anti-communism propaganda machine was telling them.
Propaganda was extremely effective on both sides of WWII. It worked so well that thousands of civilians living on Saipan decided to jump off a cliff than fall into the hands of those raping, baby-eating Americans. It has worked in China, it has worked in N. Korea. It has worked with Americans against Muslims and it has worked with Muslims against Americans.
And I don't even need to mention how Hitler hoodwinked Germany with is intense propaganda apparatus.
If your aim is to convince populations of certain information - true or not - it is exceedingly effective if done the right way. So is it worth the money? You better believe it is.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 22, 2011 14:51:29 GMT -5
I wonder if you're about to prove my point ... "People use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp post — for support, not illumination."
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 22, 2011 14:54:39 GMT -5
Heh. Karma for that one, florida yankee! Too true!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 23, 2011 9:21:05 GMT -5
I call "bunk" on your stats, Shirina. Worst offenders are the last four. Sources, please. (Backwater 'rational thinking' blogs need not apply.)
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 24, 2011 9:39:23 GMT -5
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 24, 2011 9:59:41 GMT -5
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Mar 24, 2011 11:23:01 GMT -5
Just a helpful hint, using a worse technique to prove a technique is "bad" isn't the way to go. Clever quotes are about at the bottom of argumentation techniques and is almost always fallacious.
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Post by straydog on Mar 24, 2011 22:59:07 GMT -5
LOL! No they can't: S: 18% (and growing) still believe Obama is a Muslim and another 46% have no idea what his religion is. SD: That's because of the comments he makes and actions he takes. He has no one but himself to blame. I personally believe that he is a secular humanist who may believe that all roads lead to Rome. Here is what Mr. 'devout Christian' had to say about the Sermon on the Mount: S: 58% of Republicans do not believe or still doubt that Obama is an American. SD: I'm not worried about his birth certificate, I'm worried about the direction that he's taking this country in. S: 47% of Americans incorrectly believe that Obama, rather than Bush, enacted TARP. SD: Bush enacted it, Obama voted for it. S: Here's one for the conservatives: 80% of Americans believe in Global Warming and 60% believe it is a threat. SD: I'm not one of them, and on most polls that I've seen on TV (sorry, no links), it's usually at the bottom of the list. S: 70% believe that there was a link between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. SD: Not me. S: Fortunately, the Truther movement is losing steam, with only 22% believing 9/11 was a government conspiracy SD: Regardless of how people feel about 9/11, when the establishment starts to demonize people who feel that they are just looking for the truth, then I start getting worried. S: Here's one of my favorites: 87% of Americans believe in creationism and not evolution (LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!) SD: There's a reason that it's called the 'THEORY' of evolution, it has not been proven. On the other hand, explorers have found what they believe are the remains of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat, and I saw a news report once that said that Iraq was preserving the original site where the Tower of Babel stood. Both are out of the book of Genesis. S: 44% to 47% of Americans believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old (more LOL'ing) SD: So what? I'm sure that nobody can exactly pinpoint how old the earth really is. S: 20% of Americans still believe the sun revolves around the earth (that's 60 million people, approximately the population of the UK) 18% of Americans believe the earth is flat (for crying out loud!) SD: I don't S: So, seriously, do you HONESTLY believe that most Americans can recognize propaganda when they see it, much less from a mile away? SD: You may be right after all, I mean, look who ended up winning the presidency.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 25, 2011 7:08:15 GMT -5
Here is the unedited version which Obama calls to renew faith, much different then edited version thats posted above.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 25, 2011 7:09:56 GMT -5
Talk about pushing propaganda!!
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 25, 2011 10:48:40 GMT -5
Unless they agree with your own assertion, at which point statistics suddenly become valid.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 25, 2011 17:13:40 GMT -5
Hard to believe the stats on Earth revolving around the sun (although it is a poor question in the sense that if the Earth is used as a reference, the sun does revolve around the Earth, which might account for a good chunk of the result). Looks like your stats on evolution are off, Shir. The flat Earth stats are also MIA.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Mar 25, 2011 21:16:01 GMT -5
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