milee
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Post by milee on Dec 29, 2016 10:00:08 GMT -5
I had a conversation about the type of thing the other day. Every time I go to the doctor now, they ask I feel safe in my living situation. My question is if I say no what can they do to help me? When racing sailboats in rough conditions - heavy wind, aggressive fleet, chop - you get thrown around the boat and everybody gets all sorts of awful bruises in weird places. Even in regular conditions, it's common to end up with deep bruises around your upper thighs and butt as you move around the boat and accidentally sit or fall on a cleat or other deck fitting. For years, every time I go to the OB/GYN, she gives me a handout on women's shelters and resources for battered spouses to call. My sailing friends and I get a kick out of it since we're not remotely in a physically abusive relationship, but I suspect those handouts are very helpful for women whose bruises aren't caused by their crazy hobbies. My guess is your doc's office has similar handouts and hotline references. And as for how this related to the OP - if the state wants to make available handouts (or even just pdf files that people can print on their own) of resources that battered spouses can call, that would be a reasonable thing. Good public service for those who are interested and would make use of it and low cost. It's not reasonable to make this part of a licensing requirement and to put the cost of training on hairdressers and their clients and the cost of monitoring and administering the program on the state. Smaller, smarter government.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Dec 29, 2016 10:24:45 GMT -5
I would not be at al surprised if my hairdresser had experienced DV at some point in her life. She admits she is pretty much a party animal and I think she is late 30's -40 years old. I do not think she would continue to tolerate DV in her life though. And yes my hairdresser is pretty poor. I would think she would know where to go for help if I sought resources from her. I am not enamored of them having to post signs in the bathroom at the beauty salon. I guess I don't want to think about DV when I am getting ready for a Wedding, or a Party etc. I don't have a problem with the signs in my Doctor's office though.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 29, 2016 10:29:37 GMT -5
I had a conversation about the type of thing the other day. Every time I go to the doctor now, they ask I feel safe in my living situation. My question is if I say no what can they do to help me? I feel like this is more of the same. I do believe it's a big problem but I'm not sure the things we are doing really help. It seems like more of a check the box thing and we pat ourselves on the back for doing our part. They will give you information and possibly put you in touch with a social worker thru the hospital. When you have children the pediatrician will also ask if you/your children feel safe in the home. I got mad at the social service worker that visited my room when I had Abby. She wanted to know if I was married and I said yes. She apparently did not believe me because her next question was "Then why isn't he here?". I snottily told her that he's at home caring for our other child if that's all right with her. I've since wondered if maybe I was too hard on her, that maybe they have a lot of women lie who would benefit from aid if they were honest. At the time though I was burnt out from labor and tired of playing 40 questions with every freaking person who came into the room.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:45:58 GMT -5
Counseling others with sticky situations comes with its perils. Offering heeded help that doesn't help can backfire on you. Not only that, you can become drained mentally in the name of trying to help. You may become their only source.
I would rather point people who share their troubled lives with their salon gals/guys, (because they do) towards the professionals. Let their following-up on whatever is suggested be their choice.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 29, 2016 10:47:02 GMT -5
It's just more of making someone else's life into someone else's responsibility rather than their own.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 29, 2016 10:53:47 GMT -5
It's just more of making someone else's life into someone else's responsibility rather than their own. let's not have police, firefighters, or social workers then...
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Dec 29, 2016 11:05:34 GMT -5
One of the only Black eyes I ever had in my life was b/c my son kicked me as I was buckling him in his stroller when he was a toddler. I went to the Clinique counter and bough makeup to cover up my black eye. I was very embarrassed b/c I was afraid people would think my DH did it. Black eyes and bruises don't always indicate DV.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 29, 2016 11:07:37 GMT -5
My parents pug liked to sleep on top of the chair while you were sitting on it. As he got older his balance wasn't so good and one day he fell off while I was in the chair. On the way down he managed to scratch my face pretty good.
I had to go to work a few hours later and had a customer ask me if my boyfriend did it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 29, 2016 11:08:15 GMT -5
Counseling others with sticky situations comes with its perils. Offering heeded help that doesn't help can backfire on you. Not only that, you can become drained mentally in the name of trying to help. You may become their only source. I would rather point people who share their troubled lives with their salon gals/guys, (because they do) towards the professionals. Let their following-up on whatever is suggested be their choice. That is all this law does. Handing out Iinformation is voluntary. Here is the link again to the article as the link in the OP has expired. A New Front Against Domestic Abuse: The Hairstylist’s Chair
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 29, 2016 11:10:42 GMT -5
I don't know if it's a law or not but every salon I've ever gone to has the domestic abuse hotline poster in their bathrooms. I do know doctor's offices are supposed to have it posted and it also tends to be in the women's bathroom.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 29, 2016 11:21:35 GMT -5
One of the only Black eyes I ever had in my life was b/c my son kicked me as I was buckling him in his stroller when he was a toddler. I went to the Clinique counter and bough makeup to cover up my black eye. I was very embarrassed b/c I was afraid people would think my DH did it. Black eyes and bruises don't always indicate DV. When I fell last year and cracked some ribs, this was part of the reason why I did not go to the ER. I had a black eye, cracked ribs and a sprained thumb....all common DV injuries. I think think that this is overreaching. If literature is given, it is not going to take rocket science to figure out where it came from and it might cause the victim to become more isolated if this becomes another place they cannot go. This has a lot of potentially nasty repercussions for someone who is in no way trained to deal with this.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 29, 2016 12:35:31 GMT -5
It's just more of making someone else's life into someone else's responsibility rather than their own. let's not have police, firefighters, or social workers then... Ok. Sounds good.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Dec 29, 2016 12:49:58 GMT -5
It's just more of making someone else's life into someone else's responsibility rather than their own. let's not have police, firefighters, or social workers then... Police, firefighters and social workers chose to go into jobs that would require them to get into other people's business. They're trained for the work. They have a certain amount of authority. And their livelihoods don't depend on pleasing every single person they encounter. The same can't be said for a hairdresser.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 29, 2016 13:00:28 GMT -5
Not only is this inappropriate, but once again, it reinforces the cultural bias that woman - who are largely the victims of DV - are the ones responsible for preventing and taking care of the problem. The vast majority of DV victims and hairdressers are women, so it seems a little unfair to make them - the victims - pay for programs like this. It would be like making people who were most likely to be mugged attend and pay for government mandated classes on how to avoid being mugged.
If we're concerned with stopping DV and there's compelling evidence that people discuss this issue with hairstylists, let's put the burden, expense and focus on the perpetrators of DV - mostly it's men. So if we decide this is government's role to intervene, the program shouldn't be a burden and cost on the victims, it should be a burden and cost on the group most likely to be the offenders. In other words, we should require barbers and people who cut men's hair to undergo training on how to spot an abuser and give them resources about anger management and other counseling services to hand to men who appear likely to commit DV.
Sound silly? I think so, too. But no more silly than the current proposal. Stop making this an issue that women are responsible for controlling.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 29, 2016 13:18:38 GMT -5
Not only is this inappropriate, but once again, it reinforces the cultural bias that woman - who are largely the victims of DV - are the ones responsible for preventing and taking care of the problem. The vast majority of DV victims and hairdressers are women, so it seems a little unfair to make them - the victims - pay for programs like this. It would be like making people who were most likely to be mugged attend and pay for government mandated classes on how to avoid being mugged. If we're concerned with stopping DV and there's compelling evidence that people discuss this issue with hairstylists, let's put the burden, expense and focus on the perpetrators of DV - mostly it's men. So if we decide this is government's role to intervene, the program shouldn't be a burden and cost on the victims, it should be a burden and cost on the group most likely to be the offenders. In other words, we should require barbers and people who cut men's hair to undergo training on how to spot an abuser and give them resources about anger management and other counseling services to hand to men who appear likely to commit DV. Sound silly? I think so, too. But no more silly than the current proposal. Stop making this an issue that women are responsible for controlling. I don't see this as an attempt to make women "control" it. I see it as a reassurance that there are resources out there to get them help if it's happening to them.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 29, 2016 13:23:19 GMT -5
Not only is this inappropriate, but once again, it reinforces the cultural bias that woman - who are largely the victims of DV - are the ones responsible for preventing and taking care of the problem. The vast majority of DV victims and hairdressers are women, so it seems a little unfair to make them - the victims - pay for programs like this. It would be like making people who were most likely to be mugged attend and pay for government mandated classes on how to avoid being mugged. If we're concerned with stopping DV and there's compelling evidence that people discuss this issue with hairstylists, let's put the burden, expense and focus on the perpetrators of DV - mostly it's men. So if we decide this is government's role to intervene, the program shouldn't be a burden and cost on the victims, it should be a burden and cost on the group most likely to be the offenders. In other words, we should require barbers and people who cut men's hair to undergo training on how to spot an abuser and give them resources about anger management and other counseling services to hand to men who appear likely to commit DV. Sound silly? I think so, too. But no more silly than the current proposal. Stop making this an issue that women are responsible for controlling. I don't see this as an attempt to make women "control" it. I see it as a reassurance that there are resources out there to get them help if it's happening to them. Even if we're generous or naive enough to view it this way, again - it's crappy to make the victims pay for this "resource" and to provide this unwanted intrusion onto others who may get "the talk" for having unrelated bruises. If we want to communicate to women that there are helpful resources, then have a public ad campaign or other type of system that's paid for by the group that commits the crime.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Dec 29, 2016 13:24:51 GMT -5
I don't see this as an attempt to make women "control" it. I see it as a reassurance that there are resources out there to get them help if it's happening to them. Even if we're generous or naive enough to view it this way thanks.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 29, 2016 13:26:38 GMT -5
It's in every public bathroom I've ever been in, including colleges.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 29, 2016 14:03:59 GMT -5
Not only is this inappropriate, but once again, it reinforces the cultural bias that woman - who are largely the victims of DV - are the ones responsible for preventing and taking care of the problem. The vast majority of DV victims and hairdressers are women, so it seems a little unfair to make them - the victims - pay for programs like this. It would be like making people who were most likely to be mugged attend and pay for government mandated classes on how to avoid being mugged. If we're concerned with stopping DV and there's compelling evidence that people discuss this issue with hairstylists, let's put the burden, expense and focus on the perpetrators of DV - mostly it's men. So if we decide this is government's role to intervene, the program shouldn't be a burden and cost on the victims, it should be a burden and cost on the group most likely to be the offenders. In other words, we should require barbers and people who cut men's hair to undergo training on how to spot an abuser and give them resources about anger management and other counseling services to hand to men who appear likely to commit DV. Sound silly? I think so, too. But no more silly than the current proposal. Stop making this an issue that women are responsible for controlling. I don't see this as an attempt to make women "control" it. I see it as a reassurance that there are resources out there to get them help if it's happening to them. This is not the way to do it. What you have done is put the responsibility on a group of people who are (1) dependent upon the victims for their livelihood, and (2) are in no way qualified to help. Not only that, the repercussions, should they occur, could be ugly for someone who is not trained to deal with it. I'm guessing that those classes that hairdressers would be required to take do not tell you how to defuse an angry abuser, who supplied the info to their spouse. Many restrooms have leaflets up in the ladies room with resources of where to go. This allows the victim to make the choice to either choose, or not choose to take the material provided, without jeopardizing anyone else.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 29, 2016 14:06:33 GMT -5
Exactly HOW do those of you who think that this is a good idea propose to approach the victim about the fact that they are abused?
Had I gone to the hairdresser with my black eye, and was handed a leaflet with resources for domestic violence victims, I'd have handed it back. Don't you think that maybe victims might not want to be caught with this material on them? They very likely would have done the exact same thing I would have.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Dec 29, 2016 17:52:28 GMT -5
Milee is my new fucking hero !!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 30, 2016 13:31:24 GMT -5
The whole purpose of the law is if the hairdresser's customer should mention she (or even he) is being physically and/or mentally abused by a spouse/partner/mate, the hairdresser has information available should the customer be receptive to it. The customer doesn't have to take the information nor is it required by state law the hairdresser has to do anything at all. It is just one more outlet where women (and men) can get information to resources available to them if interested. As for the one hour required training; Illinois requires hairdressers and the like in that industry to complete 14 hours of training every two years to have their license to practice renewed for another two years. One of the 14 hours of training will include domestic violence and sexual assault awareness education. I have no idea if the hairdresser has to pay for the 14 hours of training or not. But the one hour dedicated to domestic violence does not increase the training's financial burden on the hairdresser. If anyone is interested, here is the law. The amendment to the law regarding continuing education and the addition of domestic violence and sexual assault awareness to the 14 hours of training are underlined. The Barber, Cosmetology, Esthetics, Hair Braiding, and Nail Technology Act of 1985I find it a bit ironic 'Barber' is included in the law title. Barbers in Illinois are not required to go through 14 hours of training every 2 years to get re-licensed. Nor are barbers required to have handout information in their shops regarding domestic violence. But then I don't see customers of barbers bragging to their barbers they are abusing their spouses either. But who knows-maybe some do brag about it. And maybe a few barbers tip off the police and others.
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LlamaLlamaDuck
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Post by LlamaLlamaDuck on Jan 1, 2017 18:31:10 GMT -5
The coerciveness of the law is disturbing. You can't work as a hair dresser unless you fulfill this unrelated requirement.
Why limit it to domestic abuse? How about further required education in counseling, nutrition, and family law so hairdressers can spot criminals, advise the troubled, and assist people who are gluten-intolerant?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 1, 2017 19:47:25 GMT -5
Nanny state again.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jan 2, 2017 0:02:50 GMT -5
If the domestic violence training were a one time thing, I'd probably be all for it.
Common sense and efficiency don't get slain by dragons, they get sucked dry by mosquitos like this. Well meaning extras like this are why it takes all day, thousands of dollars and many dead trees to buy a house. Most hair dressers don't make a ton of money, and many are already busy juggling work and kids. Making them spend their time and money on recurring training that has nothing to do with their jobs isn't fair.
Really, who's going to pay the babysitter to watch the hairdresser's kids during that extra hour of training? Who's going to reimburse her for the extra hour of work she could have done? You do realise that if the 14 hours of training gets done in 12, most trainers won't make their students sit there for an extra 2 hours. Adding content will either add time to the training or make it less likely to get out early. And honestly, the fact that they have to do 14 hours of training every 2 years tells me that things have already gotten out of hand.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 2, 2017 11:53:53 GMT -5
Like most here, I don't mind the training but find the "compulsory" aspect overreaching. As soon as the duty to report becomes known, victims of abuse will cease talking about it with their hairdressers or avoid them entirely. Another obvious hazard is that some percentage of stylists will inevitably "misdiagnose" clients and create all kinds of havoc. A few hours of training is well and good, but there's no shortage of unreasonable people in the world. False alarms aren't harmless, especially if they occur often enough that police become deeply skeptical of any report. I suspect ten years down the road they'll put out a whitepaper showing how 50% fewer women are indicating abuse to their stylists, and declare the experiment a success.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 2, 2017 13:40:51 GMT -5
How about it being mandatory for barbers, too, since the majority of their customers are men?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 2, 2017 13:42:13 GMT -5
Barbers can hand out pamphlets which say how bad it is to abuse women. I think that's a better plan and would reach more likely the audience doing the abuse.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jan 2, 2017 13:51:45 GMT -5
In my experience, my abuse was mental and emotional, not physical. There is no I would talk to anyone about what went on. Especially someone that I only saw maybe 3 times a year.
I believe in the one time education class, but to make it mandatory and ongoing for someone who is not in that profession, no.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Jan 2, 2017 15:44:40 GMT -5
Much better to hand out information to men when they are at the Barbers, encouraging them to NOT abuse women.
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