Slowly Going Back Into Debt (Update/Trigger Warning #420)

[zibazinski]

Dec 26, 2016 12:06:09 GMT -5 imanangel said:

I am so sorry to hear about your legal issues Shan. One can never, really prepare for something like that. 

2016 can just suck it already. I don't think I have ever hated a year more. The only good thing in 2016 for me is that I finally got back into doing what I love, at a school I love. I make about $20K more than the toxic job that I did for a year.  Our debt is ridiculously high, but I have been able to pay off a credit card and a student loan. It is a start. We are hoping by summer to have our consumer debt paid off. I hate that we let ourselves fall back into poor spending habits, but it happened. 

Here is to 2017 being a better year for all of us!

You had a lot going on. A move, twice I think, a new state, a new school for your kids, a son off to military. You can pat yourself on the back that you didn't go nuts!!

[imanangel]

Dec 26, 2016 12:07:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Dec 26, 2016 12:06:09 GMT -5 imanangel said:

I am so sorry to hear about your legal issues Shan. One can never, really prepare for something like that. 

2016 can just suck it already. I don't think I have ever hated a year more. The only good thing in 2016 for me is that I finally got back into doing what I love, at a school I love. I make about $20K more than the toxic job that I did for a year.  Our debt is ridiculously high, but I have been able to pay off a credit card and a student loan. It is a start. We are hoping by summer to have our consumer debt paid off. I hate that we let ourselves fall back into poor spending habits, but it happened. 

Here is to 2017 being a better year for all of us!

You had a lot going on. A move, twice I think, a new state, a new school for your kids, a son off to military. You can pat yourself on the back that you didn't go nuts!!

Yes, it was a rough year. We did move from one house to a condo in order to get our kids in a better school. We pay out our nose for this stupid condo, but the kids are much happier at this school, so it was worth it.  My youngest son was really nervous about starting at the new school after his accident in baseball. Thankfully, the first surgery put almost everything back to where it was. He will still need another surgery to completely fix everything. I am just thankful that we have good health insurance. I have seen the bills from the 2 different ambulances, the 2 different hospitals (neither of which actually fixed his face). We never got billed for the 3rd hospital because it was a military hospital. We would have seriously been hurting financially if we would have been required to pay all the bills. 

[zibazinski]

🙏🏻👍🏻

[NancysSummerSip]

Dec 19, 2016 12:03:26 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I am well aware that people have it worse than I do in many ways, and I try to be cognizant of that. But sometimes, a girl just has to let herself feel down for a bit. (Even my therapists say I should allow myself small breakdowns along the way, to prevent a massive one.)

I remain incredibly grateful for this board and the support I get here. Thank you all, again.

Aw, sorry about everything Shane. My 2016 was a lot less awful than yours (I was unemployed for 4 1/2 months, found a job I hate but the money and bennies are good for now).

We are there for you.

[Deleted]

I am sorry to hear about everyone's troubles. I hope it gets back on track for everyone.

[shanendoah]

Life throws things at us. We have to adjust. I'd really like it if what life threw at me was cream pies instead of ice covered rocks and a few knives, but it is what it is.

I am trying to get things back under control, or at least get the things I can control back under control, as I'd kind of let everything go starting last June. I'm not perfect, but I'm getting there. And I'm getting there in part by being more active on the WIR boards again.

The legal debt I have to accept. The other stuff, that's on me.

[shanendoah]

Today I am having to deal with the worst part of going back into debt - the juggling.

This last week, we got three bills - car insurance (paid every 6 months) at $630, lawyer bill (for lawyer 2) at $510, and $820 for the vet appt. I can't call any of these unexpected, and in the past, would have just transferred money from savings for the insurance and vet bill because that was part of the planned usage. And even the total almost $2k, I wouldn't have even thought about last year. But this year, with almost all of our liquid savings and available income eaten up by legal fees, I have to figure out how I'm going to pay this $2k.

We've got a HELOC of around $34,750. of which $18,800 is currently used in 2 fixed rate/15 year advances. We want to save $12k of that in case we go to trial, putting us with really on $4k of availability on that. Do I want to take out a 3rd fixed rate advance for $2k? Rate would be 7.24%. Or, I could put it on the variable LOC, current APR of 6.74%. But either way, I've then only got ~$2k of room left on the HELOC. (Now, when we got the HELOC, there were issues with the service being used for valuing our house. The credit union was aware and in the process of changing vendors, but if we wanted the HELOC then - and we needed it then - we had to go with what they had. It will be possible for us to refinance the HELOC late Feb/early March, which would likely increase that $34,750 to $50,000+, but who knows what interest rates will look like then. Still, something to keep in mind.)

Also this summer, we got a 0% for 12 month credit card from our credit union. Credit line of $20k. We used $19k of that immediately, but have been making minimum payments every since. We now have about $3,250 in room on that card. The 0% APR will end in July. But, because it's a credit union card, the new APR will only be 7.15% - so less than the fixed rate APR on the HELOC.

In addition, last week we got the new Citi Diamond Thank You card (hasn't arrived yet), which is giving us a $6,600 credit line, with 0% APR on purchases and balance transfers for 21 months. Since we're now at the point of falling behind in our monthly spending by about $500/month (not really coincidental that that is what the variable lawyer's fees are), we plan to make that our primary card. If I put $2k on that to start, it means we'll have about 7-8 months full use of the card - so taking us to around September of this year before we start running into credit line problems, but at least we'll be at 0% APR until Oct 2018.

Now, we have fixed monthly legal expenses of $1,670 with lawyer 1. Those will be done after July. There is a slight possibility we will still need lawyer 2 after everything is done with lawyer 1, but not likely, so that should be around $2k back in our available income every month, by August. In addition, we have $7k in trust with lawyer 2, so we'll get the balance of that back, when her services are no longer need. Once everything is done with lawyer 1, we will know if we need more services from lawyer 3. However, due to an accounting error, we currently have around a $700 credit with lawyer 3, so we'll have that to start.

What that means is that I should only have to be doing this level of juggling through the summer. And depending on when trial would be (April or May), once that's over with, C can go get a job, and we'd have additional income. But, we'll also have around $55k in debt that we'll need to be knocking out again.


Edited to add:
We also have $350 in savings with our credit union. We have another $1,010 in savings in our high interest (online only) savings account. And about $1,600 in the "true emergency" savings account that my father puts $10 in for me every month, and that I forget exists except when they send me tax documents. So I could cover the vet and insurance bills from that, but I really hate the idea of having pretty much nothing in an EF. For bills, at least I have some time to plan how I'm going to pay for them. In a larger emergency, I may not.

[zibazinski]

I'd use that free cc and keep your EF. Murphy has a way of nabbing you if you don't have one.

[dee27]

Shane, I admire your composure in light of the legal woes, and I hope your diligence pays just rewards.

[debthaven]

Shan you are a very loyal customer at your vet ... could you get on a payment plan there?

Here it is very typical to pay larger bills over 3 months. Places that know you well here will accept 3 checks and cash them once a month for 3 months. Of course it's increasingly rare to pay by check, they have to know you very well. But we paid for our new dryer that way last Sept (two checks, 1/2 in Sept and 1/2 in Oct.) We've been customers for 30 years, so they know us well.

The 3-month payment plan is also becoming increasingly common with cards here. I did it for the first time at my local garage this month, for a lot of overdue maintenance on our (only) car. I paid a 3e fee (about $3) to have the bill divided into thirds, payable each month for 3 months. The bill was 650 euros, I asked what the minimum was to pay over 3 months. I was shocked to learn that it was only 200 euros (about $200).

My DS1 (who lives in the UK) tells me that whenever he pays with his card now he is routinely asked, does he want to pay in one month or in 3?

Just a thought. 

And I too admire your composure in the face of this and hope things go well, quickly. 

[Deleted]

Are there no funds to help with vet bills? I mean it's kind of like if you were destitute would your only other option be to abandon the pet? Then other funds would need to pay for him, couldn't they do it to keep him in his home? Are there funds like that?

[shanendoah]

debthaven - I am actually not a long term/loyal customer of this vet. We moved to a very different part of town 1.5 years ago, and switched vets only a year ago. This is perhaps the 3rd time Junebug has been seen at this vet, and only the 2nd time for Larry.
That $800 bill is for 2 dogs - senior pets, which means they need a senior blood panel. We were given estimates before any procedure was done, and we could have vetoed that. We chose not to. The other expensive parts were two cytologies for Junebug. She has some growths we are concerned about.
We are choosing not to have dental work done for them, even though they both need it, due to the expense.

oped - There may be funds like that, or specific low cost clinics, or no cost clinic days sponsored by the Humane Society or ASPCA. I don't know. I feel like those funds are better used by the actually destitute.

If something truly major were needed, I have no doubt this vet works with Care Credit, which we used when our Aussie needed surgery back when C was first unemployed and I was under-employed. They generally have one year 0% interest plans.
But this really just was their routine annual exam. Given that the only vaccine they needed this year was bordatella, we could have forgone it. We chose not to.
I've never regretted choosing to spend money on my dogs' health.

And I should add, we paid the bill with a credit card. I can, on that level, take as long as I'd like to pay it off (or close to), but I'd rather not pay the interest, as it went on a card with an almost 15% APR. (We haven't paid interest on a credit card in roughly 7 years, so we stopped paying attention to interest rates a while ago. Just now having to get back to that.)

Again, I can't claim this was in any way unexpected. It is the first year both dogs were considered senior, but beyond that, it was all pretty standard.

[raeoflyte]

Jan 30, 2017 18:10:45 GMT -5 oped said:

Are there no funds to help with vet bills? I mean it's kind of like if you were destitute would your only other option be to abandon the pet? Then other funds would need to pay for him, couldn't they do it to keep him in his home? Are there funds like that?

Not to hijack and it certainly doesn't pertain to Shane, but dh works in a vet clinic and they are frequently asked this and it just isn't the case.  If an owners choice is to euthanize the animal because they can't afford treatment, the vet may offer to let you relinquish the animal to the clinic and then they will likely take on the cost of their care until the animal can be adopted out.  My sister works at a no-kill shelter and depending on space they will  take in animals on a temporary basis (i.e. someone is homeless), and would pay for any medical needed while at the shelter, but they couldn't take in an animal that needed surgery and pay for that, and then give them back to the owner.  

The options Shane listed are correct.  There are typically low/no cost clinics that you can go to that may require some kind of income documentation, or there is care credit.  

[shanendoah]

raeoflyte - Thanks for sharing the information. We've often gone to clinics that work with rescues, and they'll do discounts for rescues or sometimes payment plans for surgeries (though usually they recommend care credit). They don't do that for routine visits.

Good news is that both dogs blood panels came back in the normal ranges. We're still waiting on the cytology on Junebug's two areas of concerns, but otherwise we're looking good.

[Peace77]

Many car insurance companies have the option of making monthly payments. There may be a small fee but it's probably less than the credit card interest.

[zibazinski]

Jan 31, 2017 10:51:28 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

raeoflyte - Thanks for sharing the information. We've often gone to clinics that work with rescues, and they'll do discounts for rescues or sometimes payment plans for surgeries (though usually they recommend care credit). They don't do that for routine visits.

Good news is that both dogs blood panels came back in the normal ranges. We're still waiting on the cytology on Junebug's two areas of concerns, but otherwise we're looking good.

Is there any way your husband can get a part time job? Nights, weekends?

[Shooby]

 I would sell my house and live in a one bedroom studio apt before i would amass that much debt!

[chiver78]

Feb 1, 2017 7:41:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

 I would sell my house and live in a one bedroom studio apt before i would amass that much debt!

do you ever have anything constructive to add? wow.

[naughtybear]

That it a valid point. I don't know how long what the heck is going on, some kind of lawsuit I guess. Now the poster has stated the trial should be soon but if it was something that could go on for a while or didn't have an end in sight. Selling the house is a pretty viable option. Why would you disagree with that.

[suesinfl]

Feb 1, 2017 7:41:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

 I would sell my house and live in a one bedroom studio apt before i would amass that much debt!

Please let us know when you fall of that high horse of yours.

You do realize that she has a daughter and husband that would also have to live in a one bedroom studio. Nothing like adding to her legal issues since her daughter is adopted and the courts might not look at that lifestyle too favorably. 

[suesinfl]

Feb 1, 2017 8:34:15 GMT -5 naughtybear said:

That it a valid point. I don't know how long what the heck is going on, some kind of lawsuit I guess. Now the poster has stated the trial should be soon but if it was something that could go on for a while or didn't have an end in sight. Selling the house is a pretty viable option. Why would you disagree with that.

Chances are that the rent in her area is more than her mortgage payment. Besides they just bought not too long ago, so they may not break even by doing that.

[suesinfl]

Shane and her husband are strong people; they will get through this. We all have times that get us down, whether it is financially, personally, etc. and this should be a safe place to vent, seek ideas or just put ideas in writing. Lord knows that there are many here that have done that, myself included.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Hugs Shane.

[andi9899]

Feb 1, 2017 8:24:49 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Feb 1, 2017 7:41:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

 I would sell my house and live in a one bedroom studio apt before i would amass that much debt!

do you ever have anything constructive to add? wow.

I love you, Chiver.

[bean29]

Well good luck with a better year in 2017. Sending you my virtual support too. 

[shanendoah]

Thanks everyone for the moral support. I'll try to address some of the questions.

Peace77 - We get a SUBSTANTIAL discount on our car insurance for paying every six months, like over 10%. And considering that it will get put on a 0% APR card, and that 6 months from now (when it's due again) the legal side should be over, I'm fine with that.

zibazinski - With the legal issues still pending, no, there's no real way for C to get a job. (Trust me, this has been well thought out, and has to do with our specific situation.) As soon as the stuff lawyer 1 is handling is taken care of, C will be able to get a job, and that is the plan. But for now, unless someone knows of work from home, freelance type work, where he could miss entire days due to court crap, there's just not a reasonable way for him to work.

Shooby - Due to the legal situation, we cannot sell the house until the main part (again, lawyer 1) is taken care of. But yes, once we can sell the house, moving to a less expensive neighborhood or a smaller home is certainly on the table.

suesinfl - Good for me (but not for other people), the greater Seattle area is going through another housing boom, and my neighborhood (very close to Seattle proper, without being Seattle, and excellent schools) is right at the top of it. Our house has increased in value about $100k since we bought it 1.5 years ago. So we probably would do more than break even. And, again, it's certainly on the table for this summer, but not for now.

And yes, $55-60k in HELOC and credit card debt is substantial, but it's not as much debt as I had when I joined WIRR the first time, and we knocked all of that out on my income alone, while adopting a child, and cash flowing C going back to college. So, while I am not thrilled about it, once we are through the legal side of this, and C is able to get a job again, I have no doubt that we will knock out the debt in a reasonable fashion. And since $35k or so of that will be HELOC debt, it will be knocked out if we move (and just mean our new mortgage payment will be a bit larger than it otherwise would be). And if we don't move, we have 15 years to pay off the HELOC debt. And that interest is tax deductible.

But knowing all of that doesn't stop the stress right now, and since talking about my finances helps me take control of them (or at least feel like I have some control), I am going to continue to talk about it here. I do VERY MUCH appreciate the support I get from this community.

[TheHaitian]

I feel like Seattle area has been going through a non stop boom over and over and over...

OP keep doing your thing and put one step at a time; and making small progress / moving forward.

[imawino]

Feb 1, 2017 7:41:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

 I would sell my house and live in a one bedroom studio apt before i would amass that much debt!

Would you also get rid of internet and all your posting devices??

[zibazinski]

Feb 1, 2017 11:21:25 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Thanks everyone for the moral support. I'll try to address some of the questions.

Peace77 - We get a SUBSTANTIAL discount on our car insurance for paying every six months, like over 10%. And considering that it will get put on a 0% APR card, and that 6 months from now (when it's due again) the legal side should be over, I'm fine with that.

zibazinski - With the legal issues still pending, no, there's no real way for C to get a job. (Trust me, this has been well thought out, and has to do with our specific situation.) As soon as the stuff lawyer 1 is handling is taken care of, C will be able to get a job, and that is the plan. But for now, unless someone knows of work from home, freelance type work, where he could miss entire days due to court crap, there's just not a reasonable way for him to work.

Shooby - Due to the legal situation, we cannot sell the house until the main part (again, lawyer 1) is taken care of. But yes, once we can sell the house, moving to a less expensive neighborhood or a smaller home is certainly on the table.

suesinfl - Good for me (but not for other people), the greater Seattle area is going through another housing boom, and my neighborhood (very close to Seattle proper, without being Seattle, and excellent schools) is right at the top of it. Our house has increased in value about $100k since we bought it 1.5 years ago. So we probably would do more than break even. And, again, it's certainly on the table for this summer, but not for now.

And yes, $55-60k in HELOC and credit card debt is substantial, but it's not as much debt as I had when I joined WIRR the first time, and we knocked all of that out on my income alone, while adopting a child, and cash flowing C going back to college. So, while I am not thrilled about it, once we are through the legal side of this, and C is able to get a job again, I have no doubt that we will knock out the debt in a reasonable fashion. And since $35k or so of that will be HELOC debt, it will be knocked out if we move (and just mean our new mortgage payment will be a bit larger than it otherwise would be). And if we don't move, we have 15 years to pay off the HELOC debt. And that interest is tax deductible.

But knowing all of that doesn't stop the stress right now, and since talking about my finances helps me take control of them (or at least feel like I have some control), I am going to continue to talk about it here. I do VERY MUCH appreciate the support I get from this community.

Maybe he could pet sit or dog walk?

[Peace77]

Shanendoah,

Using a 0% card is a good choice.

Could you husband work as a remote phone operator? You would need a landline but he can work as he is able such as when the kids are in school or after the have gone to bed. LiveOps allows people to work for as little as 1/2 hour at a time.

If it makes you feel better, we are in a similar boat, going deeper into debt. Not much can be done until other situations get resolved.

Hang in there.