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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 11:42:33 GMT -5
Obama administration is sticking to its story of "not overthrowing Kadaffi". What, then, would be the purpose of this weird bombing the crap out of Libya then? It has now been "a few days." SO-- is command now shifting to whoever, or have they all run away?
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 22, 2011 12:03:43 GMT -5
This does appear to be a clear case of regime change.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 22, 2011 14:18:29 GMT -5
Obama administration is sticking to its story of "not overthrowing Kadaffi". What, then, would be the purpose of this weird bombing the crap out of Libya then? It has now been "a few days." SO-- is command now shifting to whoever, or have they all run away? I think you will rarly get a quote that we are trying to target a head of State, actually I think it's illegal, I believe President Ford signed that into law, plus it's just not done, considered bad form, politically incorrect, might give the other side the right to retaliate in the same way. Here in this case , the POTUS did say unequivically, Gaddafi has to go, didn't say how , just he had to go, whether that was a smart move or not is open to debate, but if he has to go, then that definitly is regime change in my book. With all the dissing of the man, he is a lot tougher cookie then many her suggest and whether one likes him or not , to say he is a woos is BS. Don't agree with his actual decisions that is another thing, go discuss, but able to make decisions, it might take a little while but then he makes them.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Mar 23, 2011 13:51:06 GMT -5
I like our support in our involvement.I think it is better than going it alone,as many politicians are saying...
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 13:56:07 GMT -5
I like our support in our involvement.I think it is better than going it alone,as many politicians are saying... Not too sure about that Khadahfy just announced he is winning and will fight the UN Crusaders to the last man or woman... Obama says he will pull out all of the US Forces in a matter of a few days..And Khadahfy will have a victory celebration on the same day
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 23, 2011 14:03:18 GMT -5
Somehow I am not surprised that he didn't just announce he is losing and will tuck his tail between his legs and run. Spin that propaganda.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 23, 2011 14:48:46 GMT -5
Somehow I am not surprised that he didn't just announce he is losing and will tuck his tail between his legs and run. Spin that propaganda. I support the involvement and while I can question some things about it, what do I or the rest of us really know, thinking intelligence government has we are not privy to. From the way it has been reported, I think he did the right way of doing it, not just unilaterally getting involved. That it is being done on the fly so to speak, which is not how the military normally works, and they are uncomfortable with that, but I believe as our military does, they will muddle through this unusual way of doing things and adjust and get it going It might take a little while to get all the ducks in a row, and get all on the same page, but I think the way things seem to be shaping up, I would rather be the coalition then Gadafi and his inner circle and his forces. It still will be up to the Lybian populace itself as to how this works out however. I am afraid I don't get a reading of his supporters and while all the talking heads are bringing up who really is the insurgents, as som here are too, no one, at least what I have read or watched, TV media, are discussing his supporters, who are they really. I do know he had , as all these type of governments, a huge amount of people on the payroll in secret police and informers on the populace so they would be out of work if he falls, but I see what seems like normal citizens out there carrying on as he is the Messiah, so would love to hear some information as to who are the supporters of him and his regime. Has anybody read anything about that and I just missed it? The whole population of this country is less then 8 million people.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 23, 2011 19:48:20 GMT -5
No, i don't think I support our involvement, i'm not sure how our involvement in libya benefit the United States.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 23, 2011 20:40:18 GMT -5
A couple of little notes from today. CNN reported, a man told how in one of the towns he's trying to take back, Gaddafi, a sniper killed his friend , shot below the eye, indiscriminatly, carrying no weapon, to get away from the center of town, just shot down from roof tops, has about 50 snipers in the city shooting anything that moves and another, family, showed a dead child, a tank attacked a house, whole family dead, no weapons, five dead. Why are we taking part, because of things like this. No we are not the police of the world but there are 28 countries involved here, for what ever reason , but is it a good thing, I like to say , yes. I just would like them to get with it. Possible some old Non Com sit down with the pres, not a officer, they have this book of rules that they go to, but some old grunt, experienced, don't care if he had been busted 10 times but has been there, and say,
" Hey man this ain't a F game, you gave him to many warnings already, forget it , no more talk, action talks, no troops beyond some forces where needed, get some easy weapons into these folks hands, automatics, anti, good ones , quick training, and where ever the bad guys are , his armor, his artillery, use your air force , make them bleed, and if you can semi pin down where he is, just blast it, he'll get hit or he'll realize it's only a matter of time. As his people start getting hit hard , they will bug out . As more commanders are taken out, their fellows will realize it only a matter of time. If the Arab League complain of the blood shed of the Gaddafi forces, just tell him this is the way it will be. Just do it the right way, it's not a F game '
I think he needs a talk like that. Don't knock him , if one haven't been there one wouldn't know , but it is not a F game.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Mar 23, 2011 21:09:38 GMT -5
What happens after Qaddafi? Well it is a big question. Libya in some regards is a lot like Iraq. It has sectarian and tribal issues that like Iraq was kept in control by Saddam with an iron fist. once Saddam was gone they fought and are still fighting among st themselves. Will the various groups in Libya do the same when Qaddafi is gone or will they work together? This is the issue that will determine how it all turns out.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 21:13:07 GMT -5
What happens after Qaddafi? Well it is a big question. Libya in some regards is a lot like Iraq. It has sectarian and tribal issues that like Iraq was kept in control by Saddam with an iron fist. once Saddam was gone they fought and are still fighting among st themselves. Will the various groups in Libya do the same when Qaddafi is gone or will they work together? This is the issue that will determine how it all turns out. You can bet that Iran is watching this Libyan conflict very closely, Handy. And you have to believe they will move in when the time suits them if they haven't already. Have you read some of the news from the 26th MEU that I was asked about??
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Mar 23, 2011 21:19:37 GMT -5
PI No i missed that. Where is it and I will check it out. Thanks Handy
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 21:25:48 GMT -5
Handy here you go: News: Navy and Marine Corps aircraft strike Libya U.S. Naval Forces Europe, 6th Fleet Public Affairs Marines rescue downed pilot after fighter jet crashes in Libya 3/22/2011 By Staff, Headquarters Marine Corps 26th MEU aims to safeguard Libyans, key city Photos of TRAP operations www.dvidshub.net/image/322695/trap-exercise
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Mar 23, 2011 21:36:27 GMT -5
A couple of little notes from today. CNN reported, a man told how in one of the towns he's trying to take back, Gaddafi, a sniper killed his friend , shot below the eye, indiscriminatly, carrying no weapon, to get away from the center of town, just shot down from roof tops, has about 50 snipers in the city shooting anything that moves and another, family, showed a dead child, a tank attacked a house, whole family dead, no weapons, five dead. Why are we taking part, because of things like this. No we are not the police of the world but there are 28 countries involved here, for what ever reason , but is it a good thing, I like to say , yes. I just would like them to get with it. Possible some old Non Com sit down with the pres, not a officer, they have this book of rules that they go to, but some old grunt, experienced, don't care if he had been busted 10 times but has been there, and say, " Hey man this ain't a F game, you gave him to many warnings already, forget it , no more talk, action talks, no troops beyond some forces where needed, get some easy weapons into these folks hands, automatics, anti, good ones , quick training, and where ever the bad guys are , his armor, his artillery, use your air force , make them bleed, and if you can semi pin down where he is, just blast it, he'll get hit or he'll realize it's only a matter of time. As his people start getting hit hard , they will bug out . As more commanders are taken out, their fellows will realize it only a matter of time. If the Arab League complain of the blood shed of the Gaddafi forces, just tell him this is the way it will be. Just do it the right way, it's not a F game ' I think he needs a talk like that. Don't knock him , if one haven't been there one wouldn't know , but it is not a F game. But this is not at all unique to Libya or Gaddafi, where should it end? Why get involved in this countries internal affairs but not some other?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 23, 2011 21:37:55 GMT -5
Libyan tribes don't like Iranians pffft! and the Rebels have a shadow gov't that France has recognized.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 21:43:31 GMT -5
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen Speaks about Libya Courtesy Video | Natochannel | Date: 03.23.2011 NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen Speaks about the current situation in Libya and NATO's involvement. Also available in high definition. View Video www.dvidshub.net/tags/video/odyssey-dawnNote: Whose idea was it to call the Libyan Conflict odyssey-dawn..?? Probably Michelle Obama would be my guess, or maybe Hillary?? I would have preferred Libyan Storm or Libyan Freedom Ops, or Kick Gaddafi's Butt or Shock, Awe & Leave but Odyssey-Dawn?? that is too lame & tame IMHO
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 23, 2011 21:51:06 GMT -5
FC- For one thing, Kadhafi is a terrorist and a monster, there were basically unarmed protestors being massacred, and geography- close to EU and our ships...
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 21:55:43 GMT -5
FC- For one thing, Kadhafi is a terrorist and a monster, there were basically unarmed protestors being massacred, and geography- close to EU and our ships... Kadhafi says he is winning back more rebel held territory and the UN planes and missiles are NOT stopping his troops...So in a few words in Libyan he said "!@#$%^*^^***) which means "stick it in your ear Mr Obama"...
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 23, 2011 21:58:58 GMT -5
And Libya has oil, an important country, and the people weren't getting their cut.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 23, 2011 21:59:59 GMT -5
And Libya has oil, an important country, and the people weren't getting their cut. No war for oil! Obama is a warmonger!
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Mar 23, 2011 22:00:45 GMT -5
PI- You really believe anything he says? Come on!!
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 22:02:27 GMT -5
Why are military operations in Libya called ‘Operation Odyssey Dawn’? By Ed O’Keefe, Wednesday, March 23, 11:51 AM Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Tuesday that U.S. military operations in Libya are expected to wind down in the coming days, marking the eventual end of Operation Odyssey Dawn. The name assigned to the air campaign might sound like the title of a rock album or a video game, and the moniker has no specific meaning and nothing to do with Libya, its people or the country’s leader, Moammar Gaddafi, according to Eric Elliott, a spokesman for U.S. Africa Command, or AFRICOM. “You have operational names like Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom that convey a message” and are chosen by the White House or senior Pentagon officials, Elliott said in an interview. “Others, like Operation African Lion [an exercise in Morocco in 2009], are symbolic of the location. Odyssey Dawn is neither of those.” The Pentagon permits military commanders to assign two-word nicknames to military exercises or operations using instructions laid out in a carefully crafted Defense Department naming policy. The instructions assign each military command a certain set of words that must be used to select the name’s first word. AFRICOM is assigned to use pairings of words that start with JS to JZ, NS to NZ and OA to OS, according to Elliott. A recent headquarters exercise was called Judicious Response, and another recent operation used the NS to NZ range, leaving OA to OS as the only option, he said. “The goal is to create a name that has absolutely nothing to do with the activity of the region, so you could walk down the street in Washington during the planning stages and ensure that nobody knows it’s about Libya,” Elliott said. Nicknames may be assigned “to actual events, projects, movement of forces, or other non-exercise activities,” according to the Pentagon. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-are-military-operations-in-libya-called-operation-odyssey-dawn/2011/03/22/ABBHMCEB_story.html
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 23, 2011 22:50:09 GMT -5
PI- You really believe anything he says? Come on!! I understand from highly unreliable sources that Colonel Khadahfy is not too crazy about the name given to the UN Operation in his beloved country. As you know it is called "Odyssey Dawn" and Khadahfy thought that was the name of some famous French Cognac..
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 23, 2011 23:53:59 GMT -5
A couple of little notes from today. CNN reported, a man told how in one of the towns he's trying to take back, Gaddafi, a sniper killed his friend , shot below the eye, indiscriminately, carrying no weapon, to get away from the center of town, just shot down from roof tops, has about 50 snipers in the city shooting anything that moves and another, family, showed a dead child, a tank attacked a house, whole family dead, no weapons, five dead. Why are we taking part, because of things like this. No we are not the police of the world but there are 28 countries involved here, for what ever reason , but is it a good thing, I like to say , yes. I just would like them to get with it. Possible some old Non Com sit down with the pres, not a officer, they have this book of rules that they go to, but some old grunt, experienced, don't care if he had been busted 10 times but has been there, and say, " Hey man this ain't a F game, you gave him to many warnings already, forget it , no more talk, action talks, no troops beyond some forces where needed, get some easy weapons into these folks hands, automatics, anti, good ones , quick training, and where ever the bad guys are , his armor, his artillery, use your air force , make them bleed, and if you can semi pin down where he is, just blast it, he'll get hit or he'll realize it's only a matter of time. As his people start getting hit hard , they will bug out . As more commanders are taken out, their fellows will realize it only a matter of time. If the Arab League complain of the blood shed of the Gaddafi forces, just tell him this is the way it will be. Just do it the right way, it's not a F game ' I think he needs a talk like that. Don't knock him , if one haven't been there one wouldn't know , but it is not a F game. But this is not at all unique to Libya or Gaddafi, where should it end? Why get involved in this countries internal affairs but not some other? With 28 country's involved, I guess there was some concern for what would happen, especially with the rhetoric of consequences coming out of the mans mouth as to how he would handle those who rose against him. They say it, I believe it and in this case 28 country's all felt the same way. {Personally I believe you are secretly happy that something is being done. I don't believe if the slaughter had been carried out, you would be comfortable and just say ," I am so glad to be here in America," and just go on with your daily life, so publicly say what you want, but privately, I know you are happy if the slaughter is averted, but don't worry, I'll be cool, I won't tell anyone how you really feel about the situation} "Note: Whose idea was it to call the Libyan Conflict odyssey-dawn..?? Actually CNN had the one whose job is to put code words on these things and it just was the next one in line, no special reason given for it. In history Churchill once objected to a particular name given to a campaign, thought it didn't support the sacrifice fighting men were going to pay in that action, but it wasn't changed.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 24, 2011 9:45:24 GMT -5
With 28 country's involved, I guess there was some concern for what would happen, especially with the rhetoric of consequences coming out of the mans mouth as to how he would handle those who rose against him. And there were 21 countries involved in the invasion of Iraq. Who gets the honor of paying the lion's share of the bill? American taxpayers, of course. But, ok, we'll go with your premise...we need to protect these poor, citizens and protect them from mass murder by an oppressive regime. I'll take it you now also fully support Bush and his invasion of Iraq. Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq from 1979 until 2003, has gained international notoriety for torturing and murdering thousands of his own people. Hussein believes he ruled with an iron fist to keep his country, divided by ethnicity and religion, intact. However, his actions bespeak a tyrannical despot who stopped at nothing to punish those who opposed him. history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htm
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Mar 24, 2011 10:38:30 GMT -5
With 28 country's involved, I guess there was some concern for what would happen, especially with the rhetoric of consequences coming out of the mans mouth as to how he would handle those who rose against him. And there were 21 countries involved in the invasion of Iraq. Who gets the honor of paying the lion's share of the bill? American taxpayers, of course. But, ok, we'll go with your premise...we need to protect these poor, citizens and protect them from mass murder by an oppressive regime. I'll take it you now also fully support Bush and his invasion of Iraq. Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq from 1979 until 2003, has gained international notoriety for torturing and murdering thousands of his own people. Hussein believes he ruled with an iron fist to keep his country, divided by ethnicity and religion, intact. However, his actions bespeak a tyrannical despot who stopped at nothing to punish those who opposed him. history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htmatleast Bush had approval from Congress first
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 24, 2011 10:50:41 GMT -5
WASHINGTON — Stretched thin by two wars, the U.S. military is spending upward of $1 billion in an international assault to destroy Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's air defenses and save rebels from likely defeat, according to analysts and a rough calculation of the military operation so far.
As of Tuesday, the coalition had fired at least 162 sea-launched Tomahawk missiles priced at $1 million to $1.5 million apiece and dispatched B-2 stealth bombers — round-trip from Missouri — to drop 2,000-pound bombs on Libyan sites.
Total flying time: 25 hours. Operating cost for one hour: at least $10,000.
Yet those numbers only provide part of the costs. The B-2 bombers require expensive fuel — and rely on air tankers to refuel in flight — and probably needed parts replaced upon their return to Whiteman Air Force Base. The pilots most certainly will get combat pay.
A contingent of U.S. warplanes; 11 ships steaming in the Mediterranean, including three submarines, two destroyers and two amphibious ships; and one F-15 fighter jet that crashed, costing $75 million or more — it all adds up to numbers that unnerve budget-conscious lawmakers. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42246682/ns/politics-more_politics/?GT1=43001
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 24, 2011 11:16:50 GMT -5
Re: Do You Support Our Involvement in Libya?
The more I think about this question the harder it becomes to answer because can anyone here define for this Old, Old and I mean really Old Jarhead..what is our mission in Libya and is it just for humanitarian reasons and prevent another genocide or is it to get rid or Khadahfy and have our CIA work behind the scened to install another USA Puppet governement like we see in Iraq??
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 24, 2011 12:40:13 GMT -5
....what is our mission in Libya and is it just for humanitarian reasons and prevent another genocide or is it to get rid or Khadahfy and have our CIA work behind the scened to install another USA Puppet governement like we see in Iraq?? Looking back at our own history, one also has to consider where we'd be if not for French involvement in our own revolution. So, IMHO, you ask a reasonable question. But it also raises another question. Whatever the reason, should we be freeing people from oppression and/or helping rebels to overthrow murderous dictatorships in all countries?
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 24, 2011 12:47:41 GMT -5
....what is our mission in Libya and is it just for humanitarian reasons and prevent another genocide or is it to get rid or Khadahfy and have our CIA work behind the scened to install another USA Puppet governement like we see in Iraq?? Looking back at our own history, one also has to consider where we'd be if not for French involvement in our own revolution. So, IMHO, you ask a reasonable question. But it also raises another question. Whatever the reason, should we be freeing people from oppression and/or helping rebels to overthrow murderous dictatorships in all countries? You also have big trouble brewing in Yemen, Syria, Palestine, Iran, and right here in River City...Ms Pelosi wants a piece of Obama out here for getting us into another war while she was on vacation that may have made her sick to her stomach and she is still not 100%..
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