GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 15:37:09 GMT -5
Preface: Let's not turn this into a soapbox for gun rights and/or gun control. I'm just seeking advice from folks who have experience owning, and using, guns. So, please, post the political comments on the Politics board. Thank you. ******************************************************************************************************** YDS wants to buy a shotgun. I have no experience with guns and am, actually, afraid of having them around. To be fair, YDS is in college pursuing a major that requires him to spend a great deal of time in New England forests. Wildlife encounters are almost guaranteed given his major. He doesn't (yet!?) have a lot of experience with more aggressive wildlife species (bears, mountain lions, coyotes, etc.), so I do worry about him not reading the "signs" and stumbling into a dangerous situation. I understand that a gun does not guarantee his safety in a wildlife attack, but it could at least be an option for him. Apparently, he is able to buy a gun, but not the ammo, in the state where he is in college. Once he takes the gun safety course and gets a license to carry/permit, he can buy ammo. However, I've asked him to take the gun safety course and some shooting lessons, first, before he buys the gun and he has agreed to wait. YDS is an even-keeled kid, not prone to emotional outbursts or melancholy. He is social, even among unfamiliar adults, and has good friends who are good kids. He is not a wild partier, but, YDS *is* an 18 year old male college student so I am not kidding myself that he is a tea-totaller (DH and I are occasional wine/beer drinkers). As I said, he is an 18 year old male college student -- his frontal lobe (the executive function and decision-making control center of the brain) has another 7 years or so before it matures. His best friend at college is an experienced hunter and is a licensed hunting guide. YDS has gone shooting with his college friend several times this Fall at the friend's family's hunting camp. And, in fact, guns are so common in the state where YDS attends college, the campus police (sworn police officers who carry firearms), allow students to store their weapons at the campus police station. So, what say those of you who have experience with guns and/or own shotguns. What sort of rules and practices should I insist that YDS follow (trigger lock?, ammo kept elsewhere?, additional training beyond the basic safety course?, etc.)? I'm aware that I can't keep my kids in bubble wrap forever, but, what are some common sense, and not-so-common, ideas to make this significant lifestyle change reasonably safe for YDS and everyone around him?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 15:45:39 GMT -5
Safe storage is important. It's good that the police allow storage there but he'll quickly get tired of that and unless he has a safe at his location will end up storing it unsafely
Imho, one of the largest risks with gun ownership is people tend to get them and be very excited for a short period of time then gradually their interest wanes and they stop practicing regularly. Without regular practice and repeated safe handling practice over time, people forget and that's when bad things happen. Unless he's going to practice at regularly (monthly or more frequently), this is a bad idea.
If he's not going to practice regularly, he'd be much safer using bear (pepper) spray or a horn for self-defense. Otherwise he's more likely to accidentally shoot himself or an innocent person who startles him.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 15:52:58 GMT -5
Safe storage is important. It's good that the police allow storage there but he'll quickly get tired of that and unless he has a safe at his location will end up storing it unsafely Imho, one of the largest risks with gun ownership is people tend to get them and be very excited for a short period of time then gradually their interest wanes and they stop practicing regularly. Without regular practice and repeated safe handling practice over time, people forget and that's when bad things happen. Unless he's going to practice at regularly (monthly or more frequently), this is a bad idea. If he's not going to practice regularly, he'd be much safer using bear (pepper) spray or a horn for self-defense. Otherwise he's more likely to accidentally shoot himself or an innocent person who startles him. College rules are that any guns brought to college must be stored at the police station and not in the dorms. I am not naive -- I am certain there are students who aren't following those rules (i.e., storing them in the trunk of their car) -- so that's a good point. And while I am 5 hours away and can't ensure that he does practice regularly, the need to practice regularly is not something I thought of, so I will definitely encourage YDS to do so. I'll be honest -- I'm not thrilled with the idea of my sons owning guns at this stage of their lives -- but they are both 18. At most, I can prohibit them from bringing them into my home, although, I think I'd rather keep that door open so that I can personally monitor how safely and respectfully they handle their weapons and how often they practice, kwim?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 15:54:32 GMT -5
Well, not sure I'm a good one to ask. I just bought my 14 year old a shotgun and it's just sitting in the laundry room after a couple weeks of getting sick of moving it out of the way for my purse in the van. MN is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles. You don't need to have a license or permit to buy or carry them, but you do need gun safety to hunt if you're under a certain age. He's been hunting for several years and has gone to gun safety. The gun came with a chamber lock, so that's in there and we don't generally keep ammo around. It's expensive. He gets enough for target practice or a hunting weekend and it gets used up. If by any chance there is any left it gets stored high up away from the gun.
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1Day@aTime
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Post by 1Day@aTime on Oct 27, 2016 16:01:49 GMT -5
I own various guns from handguns to hunting rifles to shotguns. No one can ever have too much training in this area. I've been shooting/hunting for almost 20 years and currently looking into some more classes at a local gun shop. Sometimes you still learn something new and refreshers never hurt.
Does he want the shotgun specifically for when he's in the field? Depending on what he's doing in the field, a shotgun may be quite cumbersome? There are so many variants of handguns now, seems more reasonable to carry something like that.
And if he's in a college dorm, etc., then definitely yes...ammo kept separate and both ammo and gun kept locked up. But I don't trust most people, gun friendly state or not. And keep the ammo out of the gun when not in use.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:03:06 GMT -5
Well, not sure I'm a good one to ask. I just bought my 14 year old a shotgun and it's just sitting in the laundry room after a couple weeks of getting sick of moving it out of the way for my purse in the van. MN is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles. I guess I don't think gun safety is something to joke about. Especially for people who have small kids in their house. Heh, heh, heh my six year old blew out his best friend's brains when they were playing with the gun they found in my laundry room! Hee! Hee! Hee!... yeah, I'm missing the funny part.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:06:30 GMT -5
Well, not sure I'm a good one to ask. I just bought my 14 year old a shotgun and it's just sitting in the laundry room after a couple weeks of getting sick of moving it out of the way for my purse in the van. MN is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles. You don't need to have a license or permit to buy or carry them, but you do need gun safety to hunt if you're under a certain age. He's been hunting for several years and has gone to gun safety. The gun came with a chamber lock, so that's in there and we don't generally keep ammo around. It's expensive. He gets enough for target practice or a hunting weekend and it gets used up. If by any chance there is any left it gets stored high up away from the gun. Dumb question: What's the difference between a shotgun and a rifle? And, yes, it does appear that Minnesota is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles -- 14 years old and it's not a BB gun or an airsoft? No judgement meant -- I'm just so new to all of this I'm truly ignorant about it all.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Oct 27, 2016 16:07:25 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with guns and they're very common here. He might want to do some research into which is more effective, guns or bear spray. Around here at least (no experience with mountain lions) but bear, moose, etc. you're generally attacked if you surprise an animal. Which means you're often surprised as well. Attacks happen in a matter of moments and it's often very, very difficult to get in an accurate shot. Additionally, often times with bears even a direct shot in the head won't drop them immediately and frankly just pisses them off. Bear spray can potentially break the charge and distract the animal long enough for the person to move away to a more defensible position. Here's a fact sheet that I found that speaks to the issue with bears. It probably won't persuade your son if he just wants a gun for the sake of having a gun, but is somewhat persuasive if his argument is he needs it for wilderness protection.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:07:56 GMT -5
And how do you know if the gun is TRULY empty of ammo?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:08:55 GMT -5
Big differences between shotgun and rifle. Both are "long" guns but a rifle shoots a single bullet vs. a shotgun which releases more of a spray of smaller projectiles. What does your son want?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:10:18 GMT -5
Well, not sure I'm a good one to ask. I just bought my 14 year old a shotgun and it's just sitting in the laundry room after a couple weeks of getting sick of moving it out of the way for my purse in the van. MN is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles. I guess I don't think gun safety is something to joke about. Especially for people who have small kids in their house. Heh, heh, heh my six year old blew out his best friend's brains when they were playing with the gun they found in my laundry room! Hee! Hee! Hee!... yeah, I'm missing the funny part. Gun safety IS important. I don't think MPL would leave a loaded gun in her van, but I could be wrong.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:11:57 GMT -5
Big differences between shotgun and rifle. Both are "long" guns but a rifle shoots a single bullet vs. a shotgun which releases more of a spray of smaller projectiles. What does your son want? He is saying he wants to buy a "shotgun", but maybe he isn't clear on what he wants (which is why I am glad he is waiting until he researches the whole idea more). Is a shotgun a BB gun?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:16:10 GMT -5
I guess I don't think gun safety is something to joke about. Especially for people who have small kids in their house. Heh, heh, heh my six year old blew out his best friend's brains when they were playing with the gun they found in my laundry room! Hee! Hee! Hee!... yeah, I'm missing the funny part. Gun safety IS important. I don't think MPL would leave a loaded gun in her van, but I could be wrong. Having an unlocked gun and unlocked ammo floating around is - sorry, no other way to put this - dumb and irresponsible. Gee, I hope it's empty. And I hope the little guy doesn't ever find that ammo so safely stored "someplace high"... because small boys never explore or climb or seek out cool stuff their brother uses. Just because lots of idiots do something doesn't mean it's OK. It's not safe or smart to have unlocked guns, much less unlocked ammo floating around.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:17:12 GMT -5
Big differences between shotgun and rifle. Both are "long" guns but a rifle shoots a single bullet vs. a shotgun which releases more of a spray of smaller projectiles. What does your son want? He is saying he wants to buy a "shotgun", but maybe he isn't clear on what he wants (which is why I am glad he is waiting until he researches the whole idea more). Is a shotgun a BB gun? No. google.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 16:31:18 GMT -5
Well, not sure I'm a good one to ask. I just bought my 14 year old a shotgun and it's just sitting in the laundry room after a couple weeks of getting sick of moving it out of the way for my purse in the van. MN is pretty laid back about shotguns and rifles. I guess I don't think gun safety is something to joke about. Especially for people who have small kids in their house. Heh, heh, heh my six year old blew out his best friend's brains when they were playing with the gun they found in my laundry room! Hee! Hee! Hee!... yeah, I'm missing the funny part. WTH? I'm not joking about gun safety. It's not loaded and has a chamber lock. This is rural MN. I guarantee you every house within 10 miles of mine has at least one firearm and the laundry room is just as safe as any other room (I don't know...what room IS a good gun room?)
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 27, 2016 16:33:16 GMT -5
We have a lot of guns in the house, both long guns and hand guns. However, TD and I have gone through about 80 hours of training, and both of us have CWPs for 38 states.
Best thing he can do is see if one of the local ranges put on safety training, or go to one of the local sports stores and ask who does local training. Private training is not inexpensive, but you do get good training and rules get pounded into your brain.
The person we use for training allowed me to shoot with a lot of his arsenal to determine what I was most comfortable shooting, and what I was most accurate with. Many in the class had purchased weapons that it turned out probably weren't the best for them, so it was an expensive lesson.
TD volunteers at the local range, and teaches gun safety to kids. He shoots more than I do, but I still get out at least once/month for practice, and I suspect we will be going out some time in the next couple of months to another class for tuning up our skills.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 27, 2016 16:37:55 GMT -5
I see no problem as long as he gets the training the state and you require.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:42:32 GMT -5
I guess I don't think gun safety is something to joke about. Especially for people who have small kids in their house. Heh, heh, heh my six year old blew out his best friend's brains when they were playing with the gun they found in my laundry room! Hee! Hee! Hee!... yeah, I'm missing the funny part. WTH? I'm not joking about gun safety. It's not loaded and has a chamber lock. This is rural MN. I guarantee you every house within 10 miles of mine has at least one firearm and the laundry room is just as safe as any other room (I don't know...what room IS a good gun room?) A safe is a good gun room. And a safe is a good place to keep ammo, especially if you have kids in the house. Maybe you're doing this but just didn't mention it, but since GRG is asking about safety, hopefully you or another adult is the one checking that the gun really is unloaded and you're the only one with either keys to the lock (and the keys are locked somewhere secure) or the only one with the combination to the lock. Otherwise, it's not really secure from your youngest son getting into it. And yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there and for the most part I don't really care if they want to be idiots as long as it only impacts them but other parents who are idiots about gun safety are not just endangering their own kids but the other kids who come over to play. One of my nightmares is having a son shot at the house of some idiot who has a gun that a kid can get into.
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countrygirl
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Post by countrygirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:47:47 GMT -5
We have rifles, shotguns, all kinds of pistols and handguns, 20 or so I guess. I bought a gun safe and keep them locked up so DD can't get them. However, there is a shotgun under our bed, not loaded, ammo in my bedside drawer.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 27, 2016 16:49:51 GMT -5
WTH? I'm not joking about gun safety. It's not loaded and has a chamber lock. This is rural MN. I guarantee you every house within 10 miles of mine has at least one firearm and the laundry room is just as safe as any other room (I don't know...what room IS a good gun room?) A safe is a good gun room. And a safe is a good place to keep ammo, especially if you have kids in the house. Maybe you're doing this but just didn't mention it, but since GRG is asking about safety, hopefully you or another adult is the one checking that the gun really is unloaded and you're the only one with either keys to the lock (and the keys are locked somewhere secure) or the only one with the combination to the lock. Otherwise, it's not really secure from your youngest son getting into it. And yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there and for the most part I don't really care if they want to be idiots as long as it only impacts them but other parents who are idiots about gun safety are not just endangering their own kids but the other kids who come over to play. One of my nightmares is having a son shot at the house of some idiot who has a gun that a kid can get into. Karma is a bitch, LOL. *I* was that parent who used to ask other parents if they had guns in their house before I considered allowing my kids to go to other houses for playdates. And then your kid turns 18 and makes his own legal decisions and all you can do is educate yourself and try your damnedest to plant the seeds of responsibility and safety and keep the lines of communication open. Because Karma is a freaking bitch.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 27, 2016 16:58:17 GMT -5
A safe is a good gun room. And a safe is a good place to keep ammo, especially if you have kids in the house. Maybe you're doing this but just didn't mention it, but since GRG is asking about safety, hopefully you or another adult is the one checking that the gun really is unloaded and you're the only one with either keys to the lock (and the keys are locked somewhere secure) or the only one with the combination to the lock. Otherwise, it's not really secure from your youngest son getting into it. And yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there and for the most part I don't really care if they want to be idiots as long as it only impacts them but other parents who are idiots about gun safety are not just endangering their own kids but the other kids who come over to play. One of my nightmares is having a son shot at the house of some idiot who has a gun that a kid can get into. Karma is a bitch, LOL. *I* was that parent who used to ask other parents if they had guns in their house before I considered allowing my kids to go to other houses for playdates. And then your kid turns 18 and makes his own legal decisions and all you can do is educate yourself and try your damnedest to plant the seeds of responsibility and safety and keep the lines of communication open. Because Karma is a freaking bitch. Oh, I know. Dh is a certified range safety officer, teaches courses - including to juniors, competes in Action Pistol and Three Gun. Both sons have also competed in PSA events. We're armed for the Zombie Apocalypse. But it's all safely stored and we're all scrupulous about safety. Hopefully those habits will stick with the boys when they're adults. In the future when they have my grand babies, if I ever discover an unsafe weapon in their house, they will wish they had never been born. It's a big, hairy deal and people are way too casual about it. It's not that difficult to be safe and the potential consequences (although rare) are just so huge it truly baffles me that people don't use basic safety steps.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 27, 2016 17:02:20 GMT -5
And how do you know if the gun is TRULY empty of ammo? You don't. Treat them accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 17:02:37 GMT -5
WTH? I'm not joking about gun safety. It's not loaded and has a chamber lock. This is rural MN. I guarantee you every house within 10 miles of mine has at least one firearm and the laundry room is just as safe as any other room (I don't know...what room IS a good gun room?) A safe is a good gun room. And a safe is a good place to keep ammo, especially if you have kids in the house. Maybe you're doing this but just didn't mention it, but since GRG is asking about safety, hopefully you or another adult is the one checking that the gun really is unloaded and you're the only one with either keys to the lock (and the keys are locked somewhere secure) or the only one with the combination to the lock. Otherwise, it's not really secure from your youngest son getting into it. And yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there and for the most part I don't really care if they want to be idiots as long as it only impacts them but other parents who are idiots about gun safety are not just endangering their own kids but the other kids who come over to play. One of my nightmares is having a son shot at the house of some idiot who has a gun that a kid can get into. It has a chamber lock. You can't put the lock in a loaded gun. So if the chamber lock is in it can't be loaded or fired.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 27, 2016 17:07:05 GMT -5
Has your DS asked talked to any professors about this? What are they suggesting?
I'm curious, because my DH majored in something very outdoorsy. ("Wildlife" is part of the title of his major).. He spent time in forests and what not studying and doing some research on animals..and his department also went to pheasant farms to shoot.
We have bears, coyotes, etc. My DH never felt the need to buy fire arms.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 17:45:21 GMT -5
14 years old and it's not a BB gun or an airsoft? No judgement meant -- I'm just so new to all of this I'm truly ignorant about it all. You can deer hunt here starting at age 12 and for that you need a shotgun. He has been borrowing a junior sized 410 the past couple years, but the people he borrowed from were hunting the same season this year, and he's really too big for a junior now, so his Dad and I decided to move him up to a 20 gauge. He has been using rifles and shotguns for a long time. Hunting is big in the area, so the Scout troop holds a lot of shooting sports activities and clinics throughout the year. Younger son has a bb gun and just started with a 22 a few weeks ago at the councils "Intro to Scouting" day at the camp. His Dad is an idiot though. Not sure how I'll feel about him taking him out. I also agree with the pp about a shotgun being really big and clumsy and not something I'd want to lug around on a hike in the woods.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 27, 2016 18:57:21 GMT -5
And how do you know if the gun is TRULY empty of ammo? You look
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 27, 2016 18:57:58 GMT -5
Not down the barrel of course but where the bulllets would be
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 27, 2016 18:58:24 GMT -5
I have only 9 mm so I know how to check
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rob base
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Post by rob base on Oct 27, 2016 19:29:56 GMT -5
You should always treat it as if it's loaded
But to check, you put the weapon on "safe" and "clear" it (remove the magazine or slide the cylinder out.....check from the SIDES of the weapons that nothing is visible.......then slide a rod through the front barrel of the weapon and make sure you can see it hit the back (always looking from the side....NEVER look through the front of the barrel of the weapon)
ETA- I see u r talking about a shotgun, just pop open where the shells go and do the same as above
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 27, 2016 21:01:27 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure there are no any grizzlies or polar bears in New England.....just the smaller black bears. They don't generally attack humans, but will go after your dog. Coyotes don't generally attack humans. There are no mountain lions there, either. The last Catamount was seen in Vermont in the 1800s. Maybe lynx and bobcats, and they don't generally attack humans.
Maybe he'll come across an ornery raccoon or an angry squirrel.
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