swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Oct 17, 2016 15:48:28 GMT -5
I think the advent of legal abortion may be a major factor in why people consider a pregnancy to be the woman's responsibility. Men can't force a woman to continue or terminate a pregnancy so they may feel more justified in washing their hands of it. Marriage makes men legally responsible for any children produced although it can be difficult to enforce. I think it's been going on for a long time. The scarlet letter comes to mind.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 17, 2016 16:06:57 GMT -5
handouts may be more than what's quoted in Chloe's post, but I don't think they are bankrupting us. Getting ourselves involved in other countries' squabbles and problems probably costs more than the aid we are giving to our own citizens. Probably not, but what I think they are doing is completely changing (or already changed) people's mentality. It has become very very acceptable. I belong to a fairly large homeschooling forum. There are a good number of women there who are given advice of applying for various forms of assistance if they are struggling. I've never once seen anyone say "put your kids to school and get a job" Homeschooling is a choice. Staying home with your children is a choice. And yet, the mentality seems to be that it's perfectly fine to accept govt assistance in those circumstances.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 17, 2016 19:15:57 GMT -5
handouts may be more than what's quoted in Chloe's post, but I don't think they are bankrupting us. Getting ourselves involved in other countries' squabbles and problems probably costs more than the aid we are giving to our own citizens. Probably not, but what I think they are doing is completely changing (or already changed) people's mentality. It has become very very acceptable. I belong to a fairly large homeschooling forum. There are a good number of women there who are given advice of applying for various forms of assistance if they are struggling. I've never once seen anyone say "put your kids to school and get a job" Homeschooling is a choice. Staying home with your children is a choice. And yet, the mentality seems to be that it's perfectly fine to accept govt assistance in those circumstances. Ditto. As a taxpayer, I'm against being the funding source for other people's lifestyle decisions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 20:24:17 GMT -5
Let's not forget a couple of things: - Some poverty is geographical. As long as you have Appalachia or South Alabama or Missisippi, you are going to have poverty. These are impoverished areas with nothing to break the chain of poverty. I will speak only of South Alabama, but there aren't a lot of jobs to be had if you want a job. It is primarily agricultural with wealth centered in the hands of large landowners. Something like 17% of the kids graduate from high school. There's still a dual school system but it's private/public. It's still racially segregated. I don't know how society solves that. Wall South Alabama off and make everyone move up North?
- Some poverty is generational without being tied to welfare and/or government programs. My ex-BF came from a family where everyone was blue collar. No one went to college. A few got "lucky" and went to work in the mines. The rest worked at places like Walmart. Only they move from job to job because they are all dead-end so they keep reaching for the next best thing. And the next.
- Some poverty is related to intellectual ability. I have a nephew who has intellectual disabilities but they aren't severe enough to earn a government check. He doesn't have the intellectual judgment for fields like welding or plumbing. So he's held a series of jobs like hotel desk clerk, several retail jobs, etc. He can work, but he doesn't have the intellectual capacity to advance past the entry level job.
- Some poverty is related to race. That is particularly true in the South where geographical and generational poverty coincide. It isn't that we don't have black professionals. We have plenty. But we are only a couple of generations away from a culture that held blacks down. It was a deep hole.
One thing I learned from the ex-bf's family is that the poor make lousy choices quite frequently. Case in point: rainbow vacuum cleaners. These are $2000+. I think most people only buy a vacuum this expensive if it comes with a maid attached. Expensive cars, multiple trips to Disney world, tattoos . . . I couldn't get into this mind frame. How can you not know where your rent money will come from but buy a tattoo? It's such a different mindset that I think that is in part why people get so upset that their taxes go toward such stuff. But I think for them, it is all live for today because tomorrow might be much worse.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Oct 17, 2016 20:45:21 GMT -5
Also the disabled aren't allowed to attempt to succeed. My great niece will be 18 in the spring and will be getting SSI and Medicaid and a guardian(her mom). She won't graduate until she is 19 and has down syndrome. After graduation she might be able to land a job but it would probably be part time and minimum wage. Her entire paychecks would reduce her SSI and if she saved money she would lose SSI and Medicaid. She can't drive so she would be limited where she could work to a couple of blocks, she doesn't know how to take a city bus and may not be on a bus line. To not be a welfare bum she will need to either earn enough for medical care and pay her own rent and food, if she is only capable of earning $700 a month why bother? My cousin and his nephew are disabled on SSI and Medicaid too. The cousin likes to buy and sell cars locally but some days can't walk at all but some days he can with a cane. He isn't allowed to work a little without losing benefits he needs. His nephew has the same things and is 34 now. He can still walk pretty good and drive. I heard he was going hiking last summer but he will get worse and spends enough time hospitalized he couldn't hold most jobs. He told me he is living on $600 a month so both men are probably getting food stamps too. Going from disabled from birth to self supporting would be really hard and if you got worse getting back on the programs would take some time and effort so just give up at 18 and stay on welfare for life.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 17, 2016 21:55:06 GMT -5
I hope we aren't discussing mentally or physically disabled people here but able bodied people who make choices that ruin their lives as well as those of their children. I don't think anyone begrudges a person who cannot help themselves .
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 18, 2016 5:59:05 GMT -5
I hope we aren't discussing mentally or physically disabled people here but able bodied people who make choices that ruin their lives as well as those of their children. I don't think anyone begrudges a person who cannot help themselves . You aren't really allowed to have a discussion on entitlements, entitlement fraud, etc. Because by pointing out the frauds and cheats you are somehow "dissing" someone with legitimate needs. Not sure how, but that is the way people react.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 18, 2016 6:24:21 GMT -5
handouts may be more than what's quoted in Chloe's post, but I don't think they are bankrupting us. Getting ourselves involved in other countries' squabbles and problems probably costs more than the aid we are giving to our own citizens. Probably not, but what I think they are doing is completely changing (or already changed) people's mentality. It has become very very acceptable. I belong to a fairly large homeschooling forum. There are a good number of women there who are given advice of applying for various forms of assistance if they are struggling. I've never once seen anyone say "put your kids to school and get a job" Homeschooling is a choice. Staying home with your children is a choice. And yet, the mentality seems to be that it's perfectly fine to accept govt assistance in those circumstances. I think we all know someone who is gaming the system when they could well afford to take care of their responsibility.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 18, 2016 8:02:02 GMT -5
People seem to think that every job, or at least most jobs, should support a family of 3-4. Low wage jobs have never been, and shouldn't be, a long term viable option if you want a family.
A job that will comfortably support a family is a luxury, something that you should have to work for, not a right.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Oct 18, 2016 23:46:18 GMT -5
Yesterday was world poverty day and it is said a lot of people live on less than 1.90 a day. I watched a Utube video about village life in Africa and the villages don't seem to use money at all. They spin cotton into thread, loom cloth and dye it, They grow millet and other seeds then grind it to make food and beer. They have black smiths who make iron tools and pottery they make by hand and fire over a wood fire. They make mask and do dancing. The children are learning the village trades and everyone is working hard but seem happy. I don't see them having poverty except not having money and not getting enough protein or medical care with western medicine. They have some chickens and goats and the people all look strong and in great shape no fat people or overly thin. I don't see what we can do to help them out of poverty since it you give them labor saving things like cloth they will lose the skills to make cloth, the children don't need to know how to read and write but they do need to learn trades so putting them in classrooms would make them less valuable to the village.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 19, 2016 4:54:36 GMT -5
Yes, well here we don't expect poor people to work and better themselves. We help support them so they don't have to do anything. Then it's never enough anyway and they're entitled to more that other people pay for.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 19, 2016 8:42:42 GMT -5
I was reading a book about the Cholera epidemic in 18th century England and it was talking about "muck rakers". They were poor people who would shift thru the literal shit of London to find various items of value and resell them. They were still living in poverty but managed to be self sufficient.
When modern sewers were invented and replaced open pits those sources of income went away for those in poverty. Nothing was put into place to keep the self sufficiency going so the government had to stop in.
Here is the book
The ghost map : the story of London's most terrifying epidemic-- and how it changed science, cities, and the modern world
I found the societal discussion really interesting because none of us would argue that modern sanitation is a BAD thing, but there were still consequences.
Adam Ruins Everything just did an episode on housing which I also found interesting. It made sense that if you don't have an address it's impossible to function in today's society. What we try to do now to fix the issue makes us feel good but doesn't really do more than create a revolving door type situation.
We need to completely rethink how we view poverty in this country if we ever want to solve it. That doesn't mean more hand outs before someone jumps down my throat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 8:58:24 GMT -5
I can never participate in a poverty discussion because the only people not working where I live are those with physical or mental problems preventing them from doing so and the lazy ass losers that piss me off. Seriously, all the companies around here are hurting for people. No education necessary for a lot of these jobs. We just had an all coworker meeting yesterday about our dire situation (production has been working 7 days a week for 2 years now). HR said they had 6 people start the day before and 2 walked out during the orientation before they ever even stepped foot on the production floor. WTF? This is not foundry work here, it's clean, easy, climate controlled, good benefits...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 9:03:25 GMT -5
I am always surprised at some of the "facts" that come out in these discussions like 17% graduation rates in Alabama. See www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/02/15_high_schools_with_the_worst.htmlLowest graduation rates in Alabama: S.R. Butler High School (Huntsville City)– 62 percent Gaylesville High School (Cherokee County)– 69 percent Lanier Senior High School (Montgomery Public Schools)– 71 percent Bessemer City High School (Bessemer City) – 72 percent Woodlawn High School Magnet (Birmingham City School)– 72 percent Lee High School Montgomery (Montgomery Public Schools)– 75 percent Now 62% isn't great but it is better than 17%. Poverty definitely has an impact but for all of Alabama last year, the black or African graduation rate was 87% . Actually that is far better than Chicago where African Americans have an overall graduation rate of about 67% with males less than 60% in a highly racially segregated school system so perhaps the problems are far greater in the north than the south. Chicago's answer to the problem for several years was to falsify the graduation rate until the system got caught so I hope the Alabama numbers are close to accurate.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 9:05:05 GMT -5
I can never participate in a poverty discussion because the only people not working where I live are those with physical or mental problems preventing them from doing so and the lazy ass losers that piss me off. Seriously, all the companies around here are hurting for people. No education necessary for a lot of these jobs. We just had an all coworker meeting yesterday about our dire situation (production has been working 7 days a week for 2 years now). HR said they had 6 people start the day before and 2 walked out during the orientation before they ever even stepped foot on the production floor. WTF? This is not foundry work here, it's clean, easy, climate controlled, good benefits... did HR/management ever get those people to say why they left?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 9:07:01 GMT -5
I am always surprised at some of the "facts" that come out in these discussions like 17% graduation rates in Alabama. See www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/02/15_high_schools_with_the_worst.htmlLowest graduation rates in Alabama: S.R. Butler High School (Huntsville City)– 62 percent Gaylesville High School (Cherokee County)– 69 percent Lanier Senior High School (Montgomery Public Schools)– 71 percent Bessemer City High School (Bessemer City) – 72 percent Woodlawn High School Magnet (Birmingham City School)– 72 percent Lee High School Montgomery (Montgomery Public Schools)– 75 percent Now 62% isn't great but it is better than 17%. Poverty definitely has an impact but for all of Alabama last year, the black or African graduation rate was 87% . Actually that is far better than Chicago where African Americans have an overall graduation rate of about 67% with males less than 60% in a highly racially segregated school system so perhaps the problems are far greater in the north than the south. Chicago's answer to the problem for several years was to falsify the graduation rate until the system got caught so I hope the Alabama numbers are close to accurate. I've heard nothing but terrifying things about the state of black people living in Chicago. What does it have (or lack) that makes the conditions there much worse than any other major U.S. city?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 9:15:31 GMT -5
I can never participate in a poverty discussion because the only people not working where I live are those with physical or mental problems preventing them from doing so and the lazy ass losers that piss me off. Seriously, all the companies around here are hurting for people. No education necessary for a lot of these jobs. We just had an all coworker meeting yesterday about our dire situation (production has been working 7 days a week for 2 years now). HR said they had 6 people start the day before and 2 walked out during the orientation before they ever even stepped foot on the production floor. WTF? This is not foundry work here, it's clean, easy, climate controlled, good benefits... did HR/management ever get those people to say why they left? They were brought in through a temp agency so we don't exit interview, they will probably fill out something with them as to why they turned down the assignment and we can get that info. My guess is they were given the scoop on the OT rotation.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 19, 2016 9:17:06 GMT -5
I've heard nothing but terrifying things about the state of black people living in Chicago. What does it have (or lack) that makes the conditions there much worse than any other major U.S. city? Wisconsin isn't much better. In my city, the solution is to ignore the issues.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 9:23:43 GMT -5
did HR/management ever get those people to say why they left? They were brought in through a temp agency so we don't exit interview, they will probably fill out something with them as to why they turned down the assignment and we can get that info. My guess is they were given the scoop on the OT rotation. to be fair, when I was looking at different jobs 1-2 years ago, I found some that really appealed to me. Once I saw that OT or weekend hours were required, I stopped reading and moved on. When you have a young child, working OT or additional weekend hours as needed (especially at short notice) can be problematic. You have to be able to find off-hours child care in addition to the child care you will likely already have during the week. I don't know of many daycare centers that are open very late hours or on weekends, and I can imagine that they would cost more than "business hours" care. The OT money may not be worth the extra cost and hassle. Just my 2 cents.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 9:25:23 GMT -5
I've heard nothing but terrifying things about the state of black people living in Chicago. What does it have (or lack) that makes the conditions there much worse than any other major U.S. city? Wisconsin isn't much better. In my city, the solution is to ignore the issues. sounds like a Midwest problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 9:36:32 GMT -5
They were brought in through a temp agency so we don't exit interview, they will probably fill out something with them as to why they turned down the assignment and we can get that info. My guess is they were given the scoop on the OT rotation. to be fair, when I was looking at different jobs 1-2 years ago, I found some that really appealed to me. Once I saw that OT or weekend hours were required, I stopped reading and moved on. When you have a young child, working OT or additional weekend hours as needed (especially at short notice) can be problematic. You have to be able to find off-hours child care in addition to the child care you will likely already have during the week. I don't know of many daycare centers that are open very late hours or on weekends, and I can imagine that they would cost more than "business hours" care. The OT money may not be worth the extra cost and hassle. Just my 2 cents. I get that, but you could be picky, if you had NO OTHER OPTIONS but poverty. Would you figure out a way to make a cushy job that required you work every third weekend work? When I started back to work with a 3 year old, the only thing open was 4th shift, which is 12 hour days Friday through Sunday. Not ideal, but I worked it for 2 years until there was a first shift opening.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 19, 2016 9:49:03 GMT -5
I can never participate in a poverty discussion because the only people not working where I live are those with physical or mental problems preventing them from doing so and the lazy ass losers that piss me off. Seriously, all the companies around here are hurting for people. No education necessary for a lot of these jobs. We just had an all coworker meeting yesterday about our dire situation (production has been working 7 days a week for 2 years now). HR said they had 6 people start the day before and 2 walked out during the orientation before they ever even stepped foot on the production floor. WTF? This is not foundry work here, it's clean, easy, climate controlled, good benefits... Oh, but somebody might have to live where they don't want to. Or get up in the morning. Heaven forbid!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 9:51:04 GMT -5
to be fair, when I was looking at different jobs 1-2 years ago, I found some that really appealed to me. Once I saw that OT or weekend hours were required, I stopped reading and moved on. When you have a young child, working OT or additional weekend hours as needed (especially at short notice) can be problematic. You have to be able to find off-hours child care in addition to the child care you will likely already have during the week. I don't know of many daycare centers that are open very late hours or on weekends, and I can imagine that they would cost more than "business hours" care. The OT money may not be worth the extra cost and hassle. Just my 2 cents. I get that, but you could be picky, if you had NO OTHER OPTIONS but poverty. Would you figure out a way to make a cushy job that required you work every third weekend work? When I started back to work with a 3 year old, the only thing open was 4th shift, which is 12 hour days Friday through Sunday. Not ideal, but I worked it for 2 years until there was a first shift opening. yes, but were you impoverished with no savings at that time? I can't remember if you were still married or not at that time, but if you were your then DH could theoretically help out with childcare so you could work off-hours. A single parent in poverty is already living a hand-to-mouth existence. Sure having income would help, but their childcare costs would skyrocket if they work OT and off-hours. If the money was good enough, the govt would likely eliminate most or all of their benefits (and I'm sure they would not taking the huge increase in childcare costs into account). It's that kind of situation that can make unemployment and welfare a better option than working and losing all their benefits. The system is definitely flawed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 19, 2016 9:52:32 GMT -5
did HR/management ever get those people to say why they left? They were brought in through a temp agency so we don't exit interview, they will probably fill out something with them as to why they turned down the assignment and we can get that info. My guess is they were given the scoop on the OT rotation. Or they were forced to by unemployment agencies
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 19, 2016 9:54:01 GMT -5
... We need to completely rethink how we view poverty in this country if we ever want to solve it. ... I think we need to rethink the idea that we can solve poverty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 10:08:33 GMT -5
I get that, but you could be picky, if you had NO OTHER OPTIONS but poverty. Would you figure out a way to make a cushy job that required you work every third weekend work? When I started back to work with a 3 year old, the only thing open was 4th shift, which is 12 hour days Friday through Sunday. Not ideal, but I worked it for 2 years until there was a first shift opening. yes, but were you impoverished with no savings at that time? I can't remember if you were still married or not at that time, but if you were your then DH could theoretically help out with childcare so you could work off-hours. A single parent in poverty is already living a hand-to-mouth existence. Sure having income would help, but their childcare costs would skyrocket if they work OT and off-hours. If the money was good enough, the govt would likely eliminate most or all of their benefits (and I'm sure they would not taking the huge increase in childcare costs into account). It's that kind of situation that can make unemployment and welfare a better option than working and losing all their benefits. The system is definitely flawed. I actually had almost no childcare costs because I worked on the weekends when everyone else was off. It was really easy to find people to watch him. Friday's was the only PIA. This is a LCOL area anyhow. Full-time daycare is rarely over $140/week and there is daycare assistance if you're on welfare. Childcare really isn't an issue here for anyone because there is so much shift work that the providers cater to them. One post on Facebook childcare wanted and you will get tons of replies. eta: but yes, you're right, government benefits might get cut if you're making 35K/year and have insurance with a $500 deductible that's costing you $900/yr. But that's where the not wanting to work what you're getting for free part comes in and I get pissy.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 10:11:58 GMT -5
yes, but were you impoverished with no savings at that time? I can't remember if you were still married or not at that time, but if you were your then DH could theoretically help out with childcare so you could work off-hours. A single parent in poverty is already living a hand-to-mouth existence. Sure having income would help, but their childcare costs would skyrocket if they work OT and off-hours. If the money was good enough, the govt would likely eliminate most or all of their benefits (and I'm sure they would not taking the huge increase in childcare costs into account). It's that kind of situation that can make unemployment and welfare a better option than working and losing all their benefits. The system is definitely flawed. I actually had almost no childcare costs because I worked on the weekends when everyone else was off. It was really easy to find people to watch him. Friday's was the only PIA. This is a LCOL area anyhow. Full-time daycare is rarely over $140/week and there is daycare assistance if you're on welfare. Childcare really isn't an issue here for anyone because there is so much shift work that the providers cater to them. One post on Facebook childcare wanted and you will get tons of replies. ah, okay. I'm thinking about this all through my own experience growing up in M/HCOLAs with more white-collar than blue-collar jobs. Full-time daycare for infants/toddlers can be easily over $1k/month.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Oct 19, 2016 10:14:02 GMT -5
yes, but were you impoverished with no savings at that time? I can't remember if you were still married or not at that time, but if you were your then DH could theoretically help out with childcare so you could work off-hours. A single parent in poverty is already living a hand-to-mouth existence. Sure having income would help, but their childcare costs would skyrocket if they work OT and off-hours. If the money was good enough, the govt would likely eliminate most or all of their benefits (and I'm sure they would not taking the huge increase in childcare costs into account). It's that kind of situation that can make unemployment and welfare a better option than working and losing all their benefits. The system is definitely flawed. I actually had almost no childcare costs because I worked on the weekends when everyone else was off. It was really easy to find people to watch him. Friday's was the only PIA. This is a LCOL area anyhow. Full-time daycare is rarely over $140/week and there is daycare assistance if you're on welfare. Childcare really isn't an issue here for anyone because there is so much shift work that the providers cater to them. One post on Facebook childcare wanted and you will get tons of replies. eta: but yes, you're right, government benefits might get cut if you're making 35K/year and have insurance with a $500 deductible that's costing you $900/yr. But that's where the not wanting to work what you're getting for free part comes in and I get pissy. LOL... the thing is that it's simple math. If it costs me more to work than to collect benefits, it makes more financial sense to just collect benefits and not work.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 19, 2016 10:33:10 GMT -5
I wonder how often something like this happens: A family or group of relatives "help each other out" when one of them gets ahead. Basically, they all share resources but not everyone contributes evenly or at the same time... so any "getting ahead" is shared (pay other people's bills or help out in some other way since it is EXPECTED) to the point that any step ahead isn't really a step ahead at all - it's more of a maintain the status quo (of poverty). I'm sure there's plenty of functional families living in poverty who get trapped in that - they have to turn their backs on relatives/family/friends in order to make progress at getting out of poverty. I have no solution for this. That is a really good point. Carl has talked about the pressure to help his family. I can see how that takes away a little of the joy of hard work resulting in monetary reward. I have a brother in law that has been "working" on my rental property for several months. He is a decent carpenter, but DH has him doing plumbing, which DH says he is not extremely knowledgeable at. DH knows his stuff, but he either has to work with his brother, or check his work carefully. Some stuff DH had to re-do. I wonder if DH wouldn't have been better off to just hire someone. DH said he is not a very good painter ... don't know if DH will have him paint or not. DH is very good, and he has another brother that likes to paint, and has painted for us before...depends if this brother really needs $$, DH will probably let him do it and pay him as much, if not more than the one that is good would do it for (other brother has a FT job).
DH and I talk about this stuff. I try not to get angry if he doesn't listen to me. When we talk about it, he is often frustrated himself. If I get angry and snap at him, he won't talk to me about it next time, and he is even less likely to cut off his brother. It is hard to say no, but DH's parents are still living and he has 7 brothers. I have told him in the past, that helping them all would leave us with even less that they have.
Early on, I told him to help his parents first. With my in-laws it is a two way street. They help us with some stuff and we help them with other stuff. For instance, last week, MIL was doing yard work at our rental. Saturday she was working at her rental and she wanted to borrow our truck and she needed dirt. DH ran up to the landscape place, filled the truck with dirt, and left the truck for them to pick up. I doubt he had his parents pay for the dirt.
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bean29
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 10,213
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Post by bean29 on Oct 19, 2016 10:40:51 GMT -5
It would be high for awhile but then it would end mostly. But we do need to bring jobs back to this country that high school graduates can do. carpentry, sheet metal work, roofing, etc. have training programs that don't require additional schooling. Auto repair, allied health professions, and paralegal jobs require around 2-3 years of specialized schooling. In my area there are warehouse/distribution center jobs that only require a HS education. They're out there, but they don't pay well and you have to work for a few years and/or get more education to make decent pay. We are signatory to the Carpenters and Masons unions. I was talking to some of our guys last week, and I asked them about drug testing. They said if someone fails a drug test for the Electricians union, they can never work as an electrician anywhere in the United States. If you fail in NY, you can't go to TX and get work. They said the carpenters are going to adopt the same rule this year.
The trades do require training and schooling. They team up with the local technical college to provide some of it, some of it the unions do on their own. I have a relative that is the business manager for one of the local unions...he talks about this stuff a lot.
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