Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 3, 2016 11:19:30 GMT -5
I work for the federal government. For many years, we've been under a pay system that gave automatic raises at specified periods of time until you reach the top of your pay band. It involved a token write up of what you did during the year, but nothing too major.
This year, we're switching to new system that is supposed to give bigger pay raises to the better performers and less to the lesser performers. While I don't have any objection to that idea in theory, the new system is complicated and time consuming.
There are six "core values" that we have to write contribution assessments for. Core values are things like "Teamwork," "Communication," "Resource Management." And you have to provide write ups for each detailing what you did and how it contributed to your organizations mission.
It's also hard because the system doesn't seem really designed for the kind of work I do as a regulatory authority. It seems designed more for people who manage government contracts.
Anyway, as I said, it's taken a lot of time to write the self assessment, partly because it's a new, complex system and partly because your write up impacts your raises.
So how do you guys do it "on the outside?" How are performance/raises handled every year? Do you have to write up your own contributions? How involved is the process?
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 3, 2016 11:29:04 GMT -5
In the private sector, we used a very similar process for decades. As a manager and an employee, I think the process is mostly a colossal waste of time. Mostly, managers determine a performance rating that gives little, if any, consideration to employee input. The laziest of managers, however, will use employee input verbatim. So you can't afford to sell yourself short.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Oct 3, 2016 11:29:44 GMT -5
uggh. This is one thing I absolutely do not miss, more from the supervisor side than personal, but I still hated having to write my own up, and deal with the numerous reporting systems as well as changes made in those systems throughout my career.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 3, 2016 11:34:33 GMT -5
Yep....had to do the same thing at the university where I worked. The first year was the hardest, then I just built on this subsequent years. Once you get something written, it does become easier.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Oct 3, 2016 11:39:28 GMT -5
I haven't done one in years, as my supervisor hates doing them, and we are small enough that you get a lot of feedback all year round.
But, almost everyone I have done is similar. You do a self-assessment, your boss does an assessment, and then you submit your self-assessment and you and your boss meets to discuss it. Almost every self-assessment I've done typically has anywhere from 10-20 short answer questions that I need to ask.
I don't miss it at all. But, I know that it's valuable if a supervisor isn't good about providing feedback. I think they are unnecessary if your supervisor provides regular feedback.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 3, 2016 11:43:23 GMT -5
I have worked in private sector for most of my work life, going on 22 years for large companies that do performance appraisals.
In a lot of ways it is a big waste of time. First time you do it will be the hardest. Once you have done it for a while it gets easier.
I would definitely encourage you to "toot your own horn". This is difficult for a lot of technical people. I was brought up not to brag. In a performance appraisal you have to do it.
The "waste of time part" is that I don't think it really matters all that much as far as what rating you get. As a manager of many technical people, I can tell you that the manager pretty much knows what rating the person is going to get, despite what the employee puts in the appraisal write up. I have never read an employee's write up and said "Wow this person did a great job, I think they deserve a high rating". So what I am saying is that the employee write ups do not impact the rating. I have had cases where an employee's write-up was asked to be modified because they were a high-performer and their write-up did not sound like it, so having to go back and tell the employee to be more positive - basically making the writeup reflect the rating in a positive sense (never in negative though).
I did work with government employees for several years. I think the change will be good and should help encourage the better employees. I worked with a lot of GS-9 and GS-11 level employees who had been in their positions for a long time, and the system forces you into the attitude that if you just do the minimum needed, you get the same raise as someone who is a superstar, so why even try.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 3, 2016 11:55:00 GMT -5
We have to write up our yearly accomplishments for our annual review. We also have to include goals for the upcoming year.
I'm a state employee. So, if I get a raise, it's dependent upon what the lawmakers decide to give us.
I'm only allowed three promotions in my career. There's been a big push to change this..Our university's HR has been in flux for 3 years now. I don't think they can do much, because again, lawmakers.
I've given up on the idea that pay is a reflection of productivity. By my pay level, I'm beyond lazy at work and don't do much of anything. The reality isn't quite that.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 3, 2016 12:30:38 GMT -5
It's exactly what you just described. There are ratings like meets doesn't meet expectations, expectations, exceeds expectations I think there's a fourth one but I can't remember. Management, all the way up to the top, has said repeatedly that Meeting Expectations is WONDERFUL and GOOD!!! Exceeds Expectations is for people who have literally and consistently walked on water, turned lead into gold, tamed dragons, and/or returned from the Underworld.
That said, it is time consuming and annoying to have to fill out since it's hard to spin the "core values" and the other parts of it to go along with my (and most of my coworkers) actual jobs. It seems to be a better fit for something you can actually quantify (wrote 2 million lines of code, completed 52 projects, didn't sleep for 6 months)
It's hard to measure "reassured end users (kept them from crying/jumping off the roof/fearing they would be fired) that the process will work and that everything will be OK." It's also hard to measure how productive 20 hours of meetings per week actually is...
I would recommend keeping your old reviews on file - you can recycle stuff from year to year. When I had to fill this kind of review out the first time - I ask some friends to help me with the buzz words and lingo and phrasing for it. We had a bottle of wine and some pizza and had an amusing time coming up with phrases to use. We had sheets of paper filled with clever wording for what we all did at work that was scarily applicable to each of our professions (we have similar review processes) even though we all do dramatically different things for a living. I refer to those notes (and the years of previous reviews) when I need to fill out a new appraisal. The stuff doesn't go bad - it's so generic. If you are a Perfectionist and MUST absolutely get all Exceeds Expectations or it will indicate you failed and are a worthless human being (because Exceeds is PERFECTION!!!)... I'd strongly suggest finding out how your employer will use each of the rating categories (does meets expectations mean you are doing an extraordinary job because your employer has high expectations? Or does meets expectations mean you are doing a bad job because your employer thinks that just doing enough isn't really all that great?) BEFORE you get your final review.
I have a Perfectionist friend who was in tears and nearly suicidal after getting one 4 star rating (5 stars is the highest) along with nine 5 star ratings (on a ten item list) on her review (not exactly the same type of standardized review I and other friends have but very similar) . She was positive she'd be fired and that she was a failure - since she didn't achieve perfection (10 5 star ratings). It didn't matter that she had the highest overall rating of all her co-workers. She just couldn't cope with that 4 star rating... it was like a slap in the face.
Being a Perfectionist is really stressful. I don't know why people do it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2016 13:01:10 GMT -5
That's how mine are too. Only now I have to include three goals for the year. It'll be interesting to see what they do about that because with all the upheaval in my job description I have not met any of my three goals. But I've sure as hell learned and grown A LOT. The worst was at Creighton where I had to and my boss had to rate how well I did in "reflecting the values and morality of the college". Creighton University is a private Jesuit school so as such there was a morality clause in my employee file. We had no clue how to answer it. I was pretty sure my smart ass answer would have gotten me fired. At any rate like Gira how much my salary rises is dependent on the state budget. It doesn't matter how stellar of a job I do I will get get any more than the 1-3% the state approves. That goes for everyone including my bosses. I've also given up on my salary reflecting my job performance. I'm lucky if it reflects COL.
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rob base
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Post by rob base on Oct 3, 2016 13:11:08 GMT -5
I don't understand the issue. Every year you know this will come. You have done it before, year after year, no surprises. Just keep track of ur shit and u will be good to go. THIS IS PART OF UR JOB. I never understood people that have trouble with this. If it's ur first time or 2 ok then. But otherwise not a big deal...
But then again I never understood people in college pulling all nighters the day before the final either. Just study a little but each night. But I guess its humanistic to procrastinate.
Glad I never had that problem ....
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Oct 3, 2016 13:13:54 GMT -5
My entire career has been in the private sector. One common theme has been employee has to give their glorified version, manager has to give their glorified/unglorified version and the two meet or don't However, the company that had the most successful review process IMO was where they also had the 360 degree peer review process. Each employee had to send requests to 4-5 "peers" they had worked with in the past year. Didn't have to be their immediate team, could be people from any department or group they worked with. These people gave feedback for the employee which was "anonymous" TO the employee, but known to the manager. And they HAD to be included in the final rating. So someone who got raving reviews from all 5 peers, the manager could not give them a "below expectations" ....and vice versa. I, as a manager, have a love hate relationship with performance reviews. There is always someone who is unhappy, ALWAYS Its like a necessary evil in my world, since most people in my field of work are tech dorks, who would not come out of their shell at all if not required to.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 3, 2016 13:40:48 GMT -5
I don't understand the issue. Every year you know this will come. You have done it before, year after year, no surprises. Just keep track of ur shit and u will be good to go. THIS IS PART OF UR JOB. I never understood people that have trouble with this. If it's ur first time or 2 ok then. But otherwise not a big deal... But then again I never understood people in college pulling all nighters the day before the final either. Just study a little but each night. But I guess its humanistic to procrastinate. Glad I never had that problem .... I think it depends on how you <--generic you view your own job and the pieces of it and how 'good' you feel about the work you do. I find it really hard to work up the spin on the couple of 'projects' I do a year into something wonderful and terrific. These projects don't save the company tons of money and they aren't particularly in everyone's view. Basically, these projects keep the accountants and clerks from doing a ton of busy work every month so they can concentrate on bigger more interesting issues.
My older brother is able to feel really good about helping and put really positive spin on going out to the yard and picking up the dog poop before his wife mows the lawn. The way he tells it - he moved a mountain and did a damn fine job of it. You'd almost think he mowed the lawn (and took care of the mower and the yard waste).
Some people are better at 'spin' than others. This is NOT a judgment, or an attack. I wish I had the 'spin' skill.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2016 13:54:17 GMT -5
Creighton made me review my BOSS. It was anoyomous but we had three employees in the lab. . .not hard to narrow it down.
Fortunately I worked for a great boss but I could not imagine being put in that position for bosses like the ones I had at Boys Town. There is no way I would have dared to write down the truth.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 3, 2016 14:27:55 GMT -5
It can be hard because, working in a safety/regulatory capcity, it's hard to quantify our contributions in dollars and cents. Basically, I'm here and employed because federal law says I have to be due to public safety. Except for meeting timelines or improving processes that save man hours, me doing my job isn't saving the government money or making a company more money.
If anything, when things DON'T happen, that's when we're doing a good job.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 3, 2016 14:35:44 GMT -5
I have worked in private sector for most of my work life, going on 22 years for large companies that do performance appraisals. In a lot of ways it is a big waste of time. First time you do it will be the hardest. Once you have done it for a while it gets easier. I would definitely encourage you to "toot your own horn". This is difficult for a lot of technical people. I was brought up not to brag. In a performance appraisal you have to do it. The "waste of time part" is that I don't think it really matters all that much as far as what rating you get. As a manager of many technical people, I can tell you that the manager pretty much knows what rating the person is going to get, despite what the employee puts in the appraisal write up. I have never read an employee's write up and said "Wow this person did a great job, I think they deserve a high rating". So what I am saying is that the employee write ups do not impact the rating. I have had cases where an employee's write-up was asked to be modified because they were a high-performer and their write-up did not sound like it, so having to go back and tell the employee to be more positive - basically making the writeup reflect the rating in a positive sense (never in negative though). I did work with government employees for several years. I think the change will be good and should help encourage the better employees. I worked with a lot of GS-9 and GS-11 level employees who had been in their positions for a long time, and the system forces you into the attitude that if you just do the minimum needed, you get the same raise as someone who is a superstar, so why even try. Yeah, that was kind of the hard part. While I never lie on a self assessment, you do end up "talking up" what you did and make it sound more important than perhaps it really is. Like calling into a conference every two weeks is now a big contribution because you coordinated with customers. You have to put the right "spin" on it and it does feel like bragging sometimes.
I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of a more "pay per performance" government. If anything it probably benefits me because I'm relatively young, especially for the government sector. (Seriously, you're a newbie if you have less than 15 years in the government). And I may be able to qualify for raises quicker.
But we'll see if it works out that way, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm not too worried. I'm at a point in my career where I have the experience and qualifications to be desirable, and can easily move to a different agency under the "old system" if I'm not happy with my compensation.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 3, 2016 15:33:04 GMT -5
I have a Perfectionist friend who was in tears and nearly suicidal after getting one 4 star rating (5 stars is the highest) along with nine 5 star ratings (on a ten item list) on her review (not exactly the same type of standardized review I and other friends have but very similar) . She was positive she'd be fired and that she was a failure - since she didn't achieve perfection (10 5 star ratings). It didn't matter that she had the highest overall rating of all her co-workers. She just couldn't cope with that 4 star rating... it was like a slap in the face.
Being a Perfectionist is really stressful. I don't know why people do it. Did this friend used to work for me ?? I had one employee get a 4 out of 5 rating. I explained that part of the department as a whole was having a really crappy year with tons of production problems. The employee literally threw the piece of paper back in my face and started crying "I have never in my life had such a bad review. My career is ruined." She later apologized. She was promoted to my job after I left and has since gone on to get a PhD and is a professor at a very prestigious university.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 3, 2016 15:55:41 GMT -5
I had a review once where the supervisor told me that he "Never gives out a 5". Only ONE person had ever gotten a five out of him but he did not tell me what that person did to achieve it so it was impossible for me to ever shoot for the same. If you're going to give me an average review no matter what I do what incentive is there to "go above and beyond" or "give 110%?"
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 3, 2016 16:02:29 GMT -5
We're not allowed to get 5's either. On a 1 - 5 scale, 4 is the very best you're going to do. And your raise is still going to suck and be eaten up by a rise in the cost of insurance.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 3, 2016 16:50:59 GMT -5
I had a review once where the supervisor told me that he "Never gives out a 5". Only ONE person had ever gotten a five out of him but he did not tell me what that person did to achieve it so it was impossible for me to ever shoot for the same. If you're going to give me an average review no matter what I do what incentive is there to "go above and beyond" or "give 110%?" I hear what you are saying. But, since pay scales don't go up endlessly for positions and there are some positions that don't require constant change (that don't 'go away' or mutate into something else) and where someone can earn a reasonable amount - it would seem to indicate that the incentive to go above and beyond (the 110%) would be to move up the corporate ladder OR to make a move to another better paying position.
Basically, giving 100% and doing quality work is good enough for some positions. I'm not sure why every day of every job seems to require giving 110% and going above and beyond... what about jobs where giving 100% and doing one's job well is enough?
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Oct 3, 2016 16:54:33 GMT -5
It can be hard because, working in a safety/regulatory capcity, it's hard to quantify our contributions in dollars and cents. Basically, I'm here and employed because federal law says I have to be due to public safety. Except for meeting timelines or improving processes that save man hours, me doing my job isn't saving the government money or making a company more money.
If anything, when things DON'T happen, that's when we're doing a good job. That's your dollars and cents quantification. You look up the value to clean up the messes from last year, compare them to the numbers for this year, and you have a figure. Then you have to put the spin on the figure, but you have something tangible and measurable. You also need to think a bit differently about meeting timelines or improving processes. The man hours saved by process improvement IS part of your financial contribution. Meeting timelines IS part of your financial contribution. For example, if Department Y is late on a deliverable but you work additional hours or juggle assignments to meet the deadline, you've potentially saved your company and/or the government possible penalties for late delivery. If this is the first year doing this type of review, it is more difficult. I eventually preferred them, though, because Megacorp also gave us objectives at the beginning of each year. The key was to break the corporate objectives down into a departmental objective (our boss did this with us in January or February) and then just track your personal actions through the year in each objective bucket. I always kept quick notes on activities to make the document completion go quickly. Another key is understanding what the proper "buzz" words are for your workplace. Use them purposefully in your review responses.
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dee27
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Post by dee27 on Oct 3, 2016 16:59:36 GMT -5
I worked in the public sector and raises were based on years of service. Employees had to complete self assessments and reach annual goals, but raises were already set by a formula before the assessment was completed. I think self assessments were part of the scheme to justify that we were being held accountable.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 3, 2016 17:00:40 GMT -5
Phoenix84 said: "Anyway, as I said, it's taken a lot of time to write the self assessment, partly because it's a new, complex system and partly because your write up impacts your raises. " One really good thing about retirement: no more self assessments. Yeaaa.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Oct 3, 2016 17:01:29 GMT -5
Phoenix84 said: "Anyway, as I said, it's taken a lot of time to write the self assessment, partly because it's a new, complex system and partly because your write up impacts your raises. " One really good thing about retirement: no more self assessments. Yeaaa.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Oct 3, 2016 20:15:43 GMT -5
I'm so glad I've never had to go through this since I've always worked at small firms. Billable hours is what comes up most frequently in annual reviews, but my hours have been on target so I don't really get much feedback. I figure as long as they keep employing me and giving a raise each year, I'm good.
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rob base
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Post by rob base on Oct 3, 2016 21:59:27 GMT -5
<<wonders how on Earth you all ever wrote your own resumes.......>>
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2016 4:29:26 GMT -5
We're not allowed to get 5's either. On a 1 - 5 scale, 4 is the very best you're going to do. And your raise is still going to suck and be eaten up by a rise in the cost of insurance. If you change the 3rd sentence to "and we'll give you a raise, but it's based on some random criteria that has nothing to do with merit, but instead where your salary falls on the pay grade, and if you're too close to the top we'll give some of your money to someone on the lower end to make things more fair even if they didn't get as good as a performance rating as you" then you have my company. It's like it's never dawned on them that all the supervisors and managers see what's happening to their own teams and the arbitrary award of 'merit' increases and magically think it's not happening to them. I had one HR person who was shocked that I made that grand logical leap and figured out if it was happening to my employees it was happening to me too... DS's old supervisor at Coke lost him and another good worker by pulling this stunt. They both promptly transferred out to another department where they were rewarded for their efforts.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2016 4:35:13 GMT -5
Creighton made me review my BOSS. It was anoyomous but we had three employees in the lab. . .not hard to narrow it down. Fortunately I worked for a great boss but I could not imagine being put in that position for bosses like the ones I had at Boys Town. There is no way I would have dared to write down the truth. Well that's just stupid. What relevant information are you going to get from that? A good review has specific detail... you can't put specifics without essentially signing your name to it. That's how they weed out non team players. Our principal got reviewed by her staff. She just had the negative reviews removed even though she wasn't supposed to and told admin a lot of her staff didn't fill them out. We found out after the office person who handled it retired.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 4, 2016 6:23:47 GMT -5
I kind of think that someone is either doing the work they are hired to do or they are not. If they are not, then fire them. If they are, then give them their raise. The notion of merit is fine but in reality what happens is you wind up creating disgruntled employees. If someone isn't doing their job, they why are you keeping them year after year?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2016 8:56:28 GMT -5
Was no problem for DS. After 30 days his new manager went to whomever and got him a solid raise on top of the measly 4 per cent before.
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rob base
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Post by rob base on Oct 4, 2016 9:12:54 GMT -5
I kind of think that someone is either doing the work they are hired to do or they are not. If they are not, then fire them. If they are, then give them their raise. The notion of merit is fine but in reality what happens is you wind up creating disgruntled employees. If someone isn't doing their job, they why are you keeping them year after year? If u do it right then everyone is "gruntled" and not disgruntled. Number 1, no one should be talking about what they got. And it's not as easy as u do ur job or not. U gots to put peeps in categories like: 1) u suck so much we need to fire u 2) u suck but not enough to fire u ....yet....so straighten out or else 3) u r adequate 4) u r above average performer 5) u r really great 6) u r awesome sauce And peeps should be paid accordingly
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