S T E M

[sesfw]

DH and I are having a discussion about what the qualifications for student loans should be. We have decided that loans should be for STEM majors only.  Anything else needs to be on the students' time and dime.

Now the question ........... what does S T E M stand for?

Dumb question ...... I know

[chiver78]

Science
Technology
Engineering
Math


now how did you draw your conclusion if you didn't know what the acronym meant?

[Phoenix84]

Science, technology, eningeering, math.

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2016 20:57:19 GMT -5 sesfw said:

We have decided that loans should be for STEM majors only.  Anything else needs to be on the students' time and dime.

You do realize student loans are on the students time and dime right? 


I don't even know how it would be logistically possible to limit financial aid to certain majors.  People change their majors all the time.  Declare an engineering major and get your Gen Eds done, then move back to History.  Plus, even if it's decided a STEM major is more "valuable", are ALL STEM majors more valuable?  Is the guy that goes for 5 years as a Math major and then drops out without graduating more valuable than the English major that goes on to medical school or the Education major that becomes a middle school teacher?  

[zibazinski]

Good luck getting into medical school with an English major.

[cronewitch]

Why not something like accounting? I took some math, science and tech classes for accounting degrees, it isn't a worthless degree. I did pay cash no student loans but if I had gotten one I would have paid it back.

[973beachbum]

Jul 30, 2016 2:52:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Good luck getting into medical school with an English major.

Maybe not but I know plenty of lawyers who got into law school with English majors. 

I know plenty of engineers who struggled with student loans for years, but all the lawyers seemed to pay theirs just fine.  So which undergrad was really worth more?

[MJ2.0]

Jul 29, 2016 21:00:41 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Science
Technology
Engineering
Math


now how did you draw your conclusion if you didn't know what the acronym meant?

Seriously though. No offense but this seems like trolling....

[MJ2.0]

Jul 30, 2016 2:52:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Good luck getting into medical school with an English major.

As long as you have the required math and science classes and do well on the MCAT, I don't see why they wouldn't let you in.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2016 6:53:15 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jul 30, 2016 2:52:39 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Good luck getting into medical school with an English major.

As long as you have the required math and science classes and do well on the MCAT, I don't see why they wouldn't let you in.

I was just going to say, my cousin got into med school with something like a Communications or Professional Writing major (can't remember).  You take a Pre-profesional series of classes alongside it to make sure you meet all the pre-reqs for med school, but you don't have to be a science major.   They actually want people that are well rounded. 

[zibazinski]

English majors rarely have those talents. If they did, they'd have already majored in something like that. I don't want a doctor who realized they couldn't get a job so decided to become a doctor.

[MJ2.0]

Jul 30, 2016 7:24:03 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

English majors rarely have those talents. If they did, they'd have already majored in something like that. I don't want a doctor who realized they couldn't get a job so decided to become a doctor.

You would never know that unless they told you. Besides, you could do a lot worse for a "fall back career"...

[zibazinski]

You don't research or google your doctors background?

[MJ2.0]

Jul 29, 2016 22:33:01 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 29, 2016 20:57:19 GMT -5 sesfw said:

We have decided that loans should be for STEM majors only.  Anything else needs to be on the students' time and dime.

You do realize student loans are on the students time and dime right? 


I don't even know how it would be logistically possible to limit financial aid to certain majors.  People change their majors all the time.  Declare an engineering major and get your Gen Eds done, then move back to History.  Plus, even if it's decided a STEM major is more "valuable", are ALL STEM majors more valuable?  Is the guy that goes for 5 years as a Math major and then drops out without graduating more valuable than the English major that goes on to medical school or the Education major that becomes a middle school teacher?  

I'm starting to think she meant grants or scholarships. Still kinda shitty though.

[MJ2.0]

Jul 30, 2016 7:30:38 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

You don't research or google your doctors background?

Yea I have. I found their undergrad and medical school years of graduation. That's good enough for me. If they graduated from a legit medical school, they're a doctor. I don't see why their undergraduate major is even remotely important.

[zibazinski]

The more they know about what they're doing, the better I feel. I'd rather someone who showed an aptitude and an interest in what they were doing. Just a personal preference. I also look at their various certifications, volunteer things they've done, and where they did their residency.

[swamp]

So cops, lawyers, teachers, probation officers, mental health workers, HR workers, editors, reporters, planners, trades, graphic designers, and any job not related to a STEM major is not worth funding?  That is so short sighted and narrow minded.  

[zibazinski]

I think the OP was saying she wasn't going to fund anything that wasn't a STEM major for her student. I get she wants a ROI.

[zibazinski]

Nope, you're right. OP meant no loans for anything other than STEM. I think there should be a limit as in no 100k loans for a 30k job that's not in demand. Just like any loan, there needs to be collateral to pay it back. You need a job to pay it back.

[Cookies Galore]

Jul 30, 2016 7:38:00 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The more they know about what they're doing, the better I feel. I'd rather someone who showed an aptitude and an interest in what they were doing. Just a personal preference. I also look at their various certifications, volunteer things they've done, and where they did their residency.

So undergrad is all that matters to you? Not the four years of med school, 3-4 years of residency training (and residency programs are competitive just to get into), the fellowship year, and the comprehensive licensing exam taken throughout their medical education? That doesn't mean anything? A physician beginning their college career as an English or history major means nothing in the grand scheme. It's all about the medical training. I know.

[zibazinski]

My doctor got a degree in pharmacy then decided on med school. I'm very happy with that. They call the person that graduated bottom of the class "Dr."

[yogiii]

Does google tell you your Dr's GPA?  There is always someone last in the class, even in med school

[yogiii]

Also if I was supposed to get a scholarship for being a stem major, I'd like reparations

[swamp]

So the effect is that we would have more STEM majors than we have room for, and no jobs for all the graduates, and then we have no one to fill non science jobs.  

If you have a mental health problem, good luck talking to the accountant.  And you call the cops, good luck with the engineer tha responds.  Nobody to work at the libraries, no one to work in municipal offices, and museums shut down.  

Yeah, that's a world I want to live in. 

[swamp]

Jul 30, 2016 7:57:02 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

My doctor got a degree in pharmacy then decided on med school. I'm very happy with that. They call the person that graduated bottom of the class "Dr."

I don't care about their college or Ned school  background.  I care what they do now.  

Some of the people who graduated at the top of my law school class are not functional humans.  I dint want them as a lawyer. 

[zibazinski]

Jul 30, 2016 7:57:09 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Does google tell you your Dr's GPA?  There is always someone last in the class, even in med school

No, but you can tell by where they did their residencies.

[NoNamePerson]

I rarely do docs but I have friends who would just like to find a doctor that would listen to them and not assume that all things can be cured by 10 pills and have the attitude that if they can't cure you, you can't be cured.

ETA: and yes I have suggested that they find another doc.  

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2016 7:38:00 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The more they know about what they're doing, the better I feel. I'd rather someone who showed an aptitude and an interest in what they were doing. Just a personal preference. I also look at their various certifications, volunteer things they've done, and where they did their residency.

Being a good doctor isn't all about science, med school makes sure they get all of that they need and they ensure they have the aptitude for it with the pre-reqs and the MCAT.   My cousin went to Mayo with his non-science degree.

This is from John Hopkins admissions page:

Admission considers the overall quality and scope of an applicant’s undergraduate educational experience. The field of concentration for undergraduate studies and the selection of additional science and mathematics courses are the student’s personal choice and will not affect the admission process.

[whoisjohngalt]

Jul 30, 2016 7:58:48 GMT -5 swamp said:

So the effect is that we would have more STEM majors than we have room for, and no jobs for all the graduates, and then we have no one to fill non science jobs.  

If you have a mental health problem, good luck talking to the accountant.  And you call the cops, good luck with the engineer tha responds.  Nobody to work at the libraries, no one to work in municipal offices, and museums shut down.  

Yeah, that's a world I want to live in. 

Hey!!!  I wanted to major in psychology - doesn't that count for anything

As far as OP - I think  I kind of, sort of understand what her point was - we have a lot of people with degrees who can't find jobs and can't pay their debt.

I do think that colleges need to reconsider what they are offering as a degree.

I know someone on here has a degree in philosophy, and I truly am not trying to offend (bc frankly, I think it is a very interesting degree) - but what do you do with that degree??  Women's studies is another example.  Russian literature.  Etc, etc, etc.  Even if you could find a job that required that precise degree - there are soooo few of them.

I think colleges used to have a different goal in past generations.  Getting a job was not the main goal at all.  Especially for women. But it is completely different now.

People don't go to college to just learn various disciplines, to engage in conversations and acquire various knowledge on all kinds of things.    They go for a very specific purpose.

So I think what is being offered really does have to change.
 

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2016 7:57:02 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

My doctor got a degree in pharmacy then decided on med school. I'm very happy with that. They call the person that graduated bottom of the class "Dr."

They also call the person with an undgrad art history degree that graduated from medical school "Dr."