bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 2, 2016 12:03:13 GMT -5
My dog was diagnosed as diabetic. He had diabetic Ketosis. Last year his blood sugar @ the rest of his tests were normal. He has a heart murmur and he is lame. His liver tests were on the high side too. He is lame and takes rimadyl 2X day for that (hard on liver). I had him in to see another Dr. In this clinic for Acupuncture. I told her he drank an awful lot of water and she did not do anything about it.
The vet really made me feel pressured to take him to animal emergency care for treatment. He refused to prescribe anything for him "because it would be malpractice". B/c in his experience the animal has a seizure at home and people are not equipped to deal with that at home.
Had my dog at the animal er once before and it cost me about $2000 he said it will be $2000/ $3000.
I just don't know what to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 14:20:26 GMT -5
I don't have an answer, but I am sorry about your dog.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 2, 2016 14:35:11 GMT -5
I really don't think that there is much to do, to be perfectly honest. I'm also not sure what he could prescribe. It sounds like your dog possibly is going into kidney failure, which is a side effect from the diabetes and just because blood results last year were ok, it does not make them ok now. The mutt went from normal to not so great kidney results in the last year. The only thing that can really be done (and we did) was switch him over to a dog food that is kinder to the kidneys.
I think with diabetes, liver failure, arthritis and possible kidney disease, the vet is really telling you that your pet isn't long for this world. I'm sorry. There really is no miraculous cure for him other than the meds he's on. TD had a dog go into kidney failure and the vet went into total survival mode to save the dog, despite the fact that the she was 16 years old.....to the point that the vet actually recommended a kidney transplant! They did manage to save her without the transplant, but the dog only lived another couple months and he really wished that they hadn't gone through extraordinary means to keep her alive because she was utterly miserable those last months. I think he said that that bill was about $3000 and he wasn't going to do that again (thus, the discussion about current mutt and saving his eye).
I'm sorry again......
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 2, 2016 15:24:02 GMT -5
How old is your dog? What is the life expectancy for the breed?
It sounds like a lot is going on with your dog. I would ask your vet that if it was his dog and his money what would he do?
We have had elderly cats who had high kidney values. Between kidney food and a willingness to do subcutaneous fluids every week we were able to keep the last one for about 2 years in relatively good health. But at some point the body does wear out. We believe his weakened body couldn't handle an infection as a result of him mixing it up with a raccoon.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jul 2, 2016 19:00:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear about your dog. One of the hardest things I've ever done, is have my pet PTS, to end its suffering. At some point, IMO that is / can be the kindest & most humane thing to do. But it's still VERY hard. Only you can make that decision. But your vet can help you decide. Whatever you decide to do, I hope it goes well and I wish you all the best. So sorry you are going through this.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jul 2, 2016 19:08:34 GMT -5
I am also really sorry about your dog. It sounds like you have put a lot of effort into giving him the best health that you could, but at some point there is a limit to what a body can endure.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 2, 2016 20:04:09 GMT -5
My husband did not want me to take him to the ER. Vet yesterday also wanted to do an X-Ray b/c he seems to have some kind of mass in his abdomen. I did not have him do it, b/c I felt why, they always hesitate to give him anesthesia b/c of the heart murmur so what would it prove.
Sitting outside with my two Dogs now. This will be hard on all of us, but especially my baby doggie. (Actually about 1 3/4 years old). The baby does not like to be Alone, even with the other dog home.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 2, 2016 20:34:58 GMT -5
Vet yesterday also wanted to do an X-Ray b/c he seems to have some kind of mass in his abdomen. I did not have him do it, b/c I felt why, they always hesitate to give him anesthesia b/c of the heart murmur so what would it prove.
We ran into this when we thought we were going to lose the mutt earlier this winter. The vet suggested a series of expensive tests to determine if he had pancreatic cancer. TD and I discussed this and we decided not to run the tests. If the tests came back positive, we weren't going to be doing anything differently than if they came back negative. As it turned out, I think he had a bad bout of pancreatitis. Fluids and supportive care seemed to take care of things and he bounced back to his normal obnoxious self, until the eye incident.
I'm guessing that an xray would only be definitive, you wouldn't be doing surgery to get rid of the mass? Then why xray?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2016 21:55:17 GMT -5
I am sorry to hear this. One of the shit parts of pet ownership is their relatively short life span, and that mostly we see their entire life span.
Maybe see a different vet for a second opinion. But not an ER.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 2, 2016 22:44:28 GMT -5
It's important to know the breed of the dog and how old the dog is. That's a lot of what goes into making this kind of decision, IMO. There's a much greater chance of pulling a young dog through a rough patch to a long life than there is of doing the same for an older dog. With multiple health problems, it sounds like your dog might not be a candidate for surgery and would be a risk for a number of different medications.
I've just dropped close to a grand on my Siamese to bring her through a serious bout of pancreatitis, but she's only 7 and Siamese tend to live long lives (easily into the late teens and often into the 20s). For her, a youngish cat, the expense was worth it. She's recovering and may never suffer another case of the nasty stuff. For previous cats who became ill at a late age, a different decision was made. It's mostly about quality of life, for me.
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hurricanegirl
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Post by hurricanegirl on Jul 3, 2016 5:30:47 GMT -5
I am sorry you are going through this, as I know first hand how difficult it can be
IMO, if it were me I would take any and all records (or none if push comes to shove) and the dog for a second opinion - not an ER, but any established local vet.
at a minimum, if the dog has recently been diagnosed with diabetes he surely needs an insulin regime, which should do an almost instantaneous improve
my cat lived very happily on insulin for two plus years before other problems progressed enough for the quality of his life to be affected
I personally purchased his insuln from my vet but I understand that it can be had at Walmart for approx. $20 a vial
This seems a small expense to attempt for possible improvement
I have a need to know that I tried every "reasonable" intervention, prior to making the decision, as long as it does not add to the suffering of the companion pet
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 3, 2016 11:21:40 GMT -5
Is it possible that your vet just doesn't want to call in staff over the long holiday weekend to nurse a seriously ill pet and is sending you to the ER vet which, by its very nature, is fully-staffed despite the long holiday weekend?
If so, it would suck to be seen as an "inconvenience", but it might also be that your vet knows he can't get as ready access to the tests and labs and care your pup may really need because so many folks are off this weekend.
In other words, he may be trying to direct you to much better care than he is capable of providing over the next few days. Timing is everything in life...
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 3, 2016 12:31:00 GMT -5
I am sorry you are going through this, as I know first hand how difficult it can be
IMO, if it were me I would take any and all records (or none if push comes to shove) and the dog for a second opinion - not an ER, but any established local vet.
at a minimum, if the dog has recently been diagnosed with diabetes he surely needs an insulin regime, which should do an almost instantaneous improve
my cat lived very happily on insulin for two plus years before other problems progressed enough for the quality of his life to be affected
I personally purchased his insuln from my vet but I understand that it can be had at Walmart for approx. $20 a vial
This seems a small expense to attempt for possible improvement
I have a need to know that I tried every "reasonable" intervention, prior to making the decision, as long as it does not add to the suffering of the companion pet
Do you need a prescription?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 3, 2016 12:37:50 GMT -5
My husband asked me not to take this dog to the ER, like I said, he was there once before and it cost me about $3,000. He was much younger then. This breed if healthy could live to 15 or so. He has not been healthy, so I myself was afraid I would drop several thousand, pay via CC and not significantly extend his life. Sometimes I feel like the vets are just going through a routine to pay for their facilities. I did try to get in with another vet, but they had no appts this weekend. Most of them close by 12 pm on Saturday.
Eta, when we got the 2nd dog a year and a half ago, we both felt this dog was not long for this earth. I love him and he is irreplaceable, but not many people have that kind of $$ for an uncertainty. If I knew it had a 100% chance of success and he would be around for 2 more years, it would be a different story.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 3, 2016 13:26:49 GMT -5
I am sorry you are going through this, as I know first hand how difficult it can be
IMO, if it were me I would take any and all records (or none if push comes to shove) and the dog for a second opinion - not an ER, but any established local vet.
at a minimum, if the dog has recently been diagnosed with diabetes he surely needs an insulin regime, which should do an almost instantaneous improve
my cat lived very happily on insulin for two plus years before other problems progressed enough for the quality of his life to be affected
I personally purchased his insuln from my vet but I understand that it can be had at Walmart for approx. $20 a vial
This seems a small expense to attempt for possible improvement
I have a need to know that I tried every "reasonable" intervention, prior to making the decision, as long as it does not add to the suffering of the companion pet
Do you need a prescription? Yes, you will need a prescription to buy insulin.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 3, 2016 13:58:47 GMT -5
Sorry for you and your pup You could perhaps try a low protein diet to put less stress on the kidneys. (We did that with my old dog) Or, like has been suggested try a good local vet....to see if there is anything to improve his comfort.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 3, 2016 21:31:22 GMT -5
Been there, done that, would do it again.
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hurricanegirl
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Post by hurricanegirl on Jul 4, 2016 5:47:28 GMT -5
bean29 -it is my understanding that you do NOT need a prescription for the $20 insulin at Walmart. as I hope I indicated I did not purchase from Walmart, but rather from my vet at approx. $40 per vial plus $20 syringes.
you should not however attempt to administer insulin without your vet instructions
I also know -0- about Ketosis, so I do not have any idea if (under that circumstance) insulin might be contraindicated
please make an appointment for Tuesday if you can and get a professional opinion. the one thing I do know is that diabetes affects every organ in the body, so getting and keeping the blood sugar under control can produce an almost immediate improvement for many problems. Given incorrectly, the opposite can be true
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hurricanegirl
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Post by hurricanegirl on Jul 4, 2016 5:48:38 GMT -5
also, please keep us updated
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 4, 2016 11:28:56 GMT -5
You need a perscription to get insulin. It is a medication that could kill the pet if administered incorrectly.
You're being directed to an emergency clinic because the animal needs immediate care. He may make it to the week to make a follow up for a 2nd opinion or he may not. DKA is life threatening.
Medical care is expensive. It's unfortunate and its inconvenient, but under almost all circumstances it isn't a vet trying to screw you over. It's a doctor running diagnosis to determine what is wrong, prognosis and treatment.
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Jul 4, 2016 19:42:25 GMT -5
I'm so sorry for all the troubles with your pooch. You are facing a difficult decision and to be honest, ask yourself will treatment improve the quality of life or will you just be delaying the inevitable. Again, I'm sorry and my prayers are for you and the pooch during this difficult time.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 5, 2016 11:46:41 GMT -5
Vet yesterday also wanted to do an X-Ray b/c he seems to have some kind of mass in his abdomen. I did not have him do it, b/c I felt why, they always hesitate to give him anesthesia b/c of the heart murmur so what would it prove.We ran into this when we thought we were going to lose the mutt earlier this winter. The vet suggested a series of expensive tests to determine if he had pancreatic cancer. TD and I discussed this and we decided not to run the tests. If the tests came back positive, we weren't going to be doing anything differently than if they came back negative. As it turned out, I think he had a bad bout of pancreatitis. Fluids and supportive care seemed to take care of things and he bounced back to his normal obnoxious self, until the eye incident. I'm guessing that an xray would only be definitive, you wouldn't be doing surgery to get rid of the mass? Then why xray? Personally I was questioning if I should do the X-Ray to see if there is cancer which would definitively tell me not to proceed with any other treatment. DH kind of asked me not to take my Dog to the animal er, so we are probably locked in to our decision at this point. I have a call in to my old vet asking for how to proceed (I am questioning if I should put him down, or just let him live as long as possible). IDK. The tech said he will call me back.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jul 6, 2016 6:53:18 GMT -5
Vet yesterday also wanted to do an X-Ray b/c he seems to have some kind of mass in his abdomen. I did not have him do it, b/c I felt why, they always hesitate to give him anesthesia b/c of the heart murmur so what would it prove.We ran into this when we thought we were going to lose the mutt earlier this winter. The vet suggested a series of expensive tests to determine if he had pancreatic cancer. TD and I discussed this and we decided not to run the tests. If the tests came back positive, we weren't going to be doing anything differently than if they came back negative. As it turned out, I think he had a bad bout of pancreatitis. Fluids and supportive care seemed to take care of things and he bounced back to his normal obnoxious self, until the eye incident. I'm guessing that an xray would only be definitive, you wouldn't be doing surgery to get rid of the mass? Then why xray? Personally I was questioning if I should do the X-Ray to see if there is cancer which would definitively tell me not to proceed with any other treatment. DH kind of asked me not to take my Dog to the animal er, so we are probably locked in to our decision at this point. I have a call in to my old vet asking for how to proceed (I am questioning if I should put him down, or just let him live as long as possible). IDK. The tech said he will call me back.
((((bean)))) Good luck and huge hugs, no matter which way you decide.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on Jul 6, 2016 6:56:30 GMT -5
Vet yesterday also wanted to do an X-Ray b/c he seems to have some kind of mass in his abdomen. I did not have him do it, b/c I felt why, they always hesitate to give him anesthesia b/c of the heart murmur so what would it prove.We ran into this when we thought we were going to lose the mutt earlier this winter. The vet suggested a series of expensive tests to determine if he had pancreatic cancer. TD and I discussed this and we decided not to run the tests. If the tests came back positive, we weren't going to be doing anything differently than if they came back negative. As it turned out, I think he had a bad bout of pancreatitis. Fluids and supportive care seemed to take care of things and he bounced back to his normal obnoxious self, until the eye incident. I'm guessing that an xray would only be definitive, you wouldn't be doing surgery to get rid of the mass? Then why xray? Personally I was questioning if I should do the X-Ray to see if there is cancer which would definitively tell me not to proceed with any other treatment. DH kind of asked me not to take my Dog to the animal er, so we are probably locked in to our decision at this point. I have a call in to my old vet asking for how to proceed (I am questioning if I should put him down, or just let him live as long as possible). IDK. The tech said he will call me back.
Good luck and HUGE hugs, no matter which way you decide to go. (((bean)))
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 6, 2016 8:12:13 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear about your pet! I like most dogs more than most people... so i get the need to do everything possibel for your baby. We just went through shelling out about 6k for our pup which included surgery. We are still waiting on test results for lymphoma. But honestly, i cant imagine putting our guy through chemo. He will be 11 next month. He doesn't have a lot of years left and i dobt want his last ones spent feeling ill. I think that is the hard question you have to face. Is his quality of life worth it at this point? It is a rough decision to make and i dont envy you at all. *hugs*
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 6, 2016 8:15:50 GMT -5
Also, what kind of xray could they do to test for cancer? My beast had 2 masses on his spleen. Which could only be found by ultrasound. We had xrays done on his back, which showed a "possible mass" in his belly... but there qas no way they could see for sure from xrays. And cancer could only be confirmed via pathology after the spleen and masses were removed. I think an xray would just lead to a plethora of other tests... so if you wouldn't seek treatment, i'd save your $$ and buy your guy some extra treats and spoil him a little.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jul 6, 2016 10:35:03 GMT -5
I took my Dog to my old vet yesterday. He agreed pretty much with the first vet's diagnosis, but added that if I took him to the Pet ER, his chances of recovery were only 30% and said that $2500 was probably low (which was my instinct). He also said he saw no reason to do an X-ray - he did not really think there was anything going on in my dog's stomach other than muscle loss.
He added that Diabetes in my breed of dog is pretty difficult to treat as the dogs frequently develop pancreatitis (which is what I previously had this dog in the ER for). So all said it pretty much confirmed that my Dog is not long for this earth. I took my two kids with me, I had intended to put him down yesterday, but the vet asked if we wanted to have any other family members present, and my DS thought maybe my FIL would like to be there. We called DH and he says don't put him down, and my DD is bawling b/c she lost an old boss (28) last week, and it was my Dad's B-day (Dad passed in 2014) and now the dog was going to be put down, so I backed off and did not do it.
If my Dog is suffering a lot, I will have to go back and have him put down. That will cost $100 (I think, possibly only $50 depending on if he charges me an office visit again). He may pass in his sleep. Vet said he was surprised my Dog is doing as well as he is at this point.
DH seems to think the dog is going to miraculously recover. Sometimes I don't know if he believes himself or he just wants us all to believe him.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 6, 2016 10:56:25 GMT -5
Also, what kind of xray could they do to test for cancer? My beast had 2 masses on his spleen. Which could only be found by ultrasound. We had xrays done on his back, which showed a "possible mass" in his belly... but there qas no way they could see for sure from xrays. And cancer could only be confirmed via pathology after the spleen and masses were removed. I think an xray would just lead to a plethora of other tests... so if you wouldn't seek treatment, i'd save your $$ and buy your guy some extra treats and spoil him a little. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards They can see a mass on an xray. When my cat was losing weight, the vet was able to palpate a mass on his spleen. An xray showed it, but did not show how extensive it was. It wasn't until the vet went in to remove the mass that he saw that the cancer had metastasized to most of his other organs as well. Maybe an ultrasound would have picked up the smaller metastases and determined whether or not surgery was a viable option. He didn't charge us for even attempting a surgery to remove Gizzy's spleen. This was the same vet that didn't charge us for removing Harpo's eyeball either. The local humane society (that he is a huge supporter of) got donations at his request.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Jul 6, 2016 11:01:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry Bean. It is always so hard.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 6, 2016 12:19:53 GMT -5
Just take it a day at a time...He'll let you know when he's had enough. Sorry
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