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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:44:23 GMT -5
The subject of getting drunk made me think of this.
How do you define an alcoholic?
To me, an alcoholic is someone that cannot function throughout the day (all day) without an alcoholic drink. Like, someone who puts vodka in their thermos at work.
To someone else, it is someone that gets drunk once in a while.
Someone else may consider a person that enjoys a few beverages every evening an alcoholic.
What is your definition of an alcoholic?
(This will be my last question for the day.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 9:58:36 GMT -5
Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this earlier this morning.
I sometimes think that in my early 20's I could have been called an alcoholic. But then they always say, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic", so how is it that now I drink very little (in comparison)? I'll have on average a couple drinks a week and drink to sort of messed up maybe once every couple months if that. I went for 5 or 6 years without drinking anything at all.
So, anyhow. To answer the question. I think alcoholic to me is physically dependent on it to function properly.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 2, 2016 10:05:35 GMT -5
I'm going to second what MPL said and add in people that have had to deal with other negative consequences as a result of alcohol. Things such as DUIs, other legal issues, having children taken away, health problems, etc. Someone who has a few drinks in the evening after work or on the weekend doesn't strike me as being an alcoholic.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 2, 2016 10:07:47 GMT -5
Well, there's functional addicts, too. My DH fell into that category, actually.
I was even able to mostly hide my self-destructive behavior. There were no typical warning signs that I was a self-injurer. To quote the breakfast club, I was every parent's wet dream. Only my parents knew, and eventually my husband.
Just because I was a "good" kid turned successful adult didn't negate the fact that I needed professional help.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on May 2, 2016 10:13:58 GMT -5
I don't think that legal problems make a person an alcoholic and I don't think a lack of legal issues means they aren't one - they are just lucky. I also get concerned about two of my friends who "can't relax without a couple of drinks" in the evening. I can't even imagine drinking every day. But since I rarely drink, I probably don't have a good grasp on what is too much.
I honestly don't know what constitutes an alcoholic but I do know people who have suffered extremely negative consequences because of alcohol consumption and they still do not stop. To me, that's problem.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 2, 2016 10:19:22 GMT -5
In our 20's there was a group of us who went out regularly and we'd joke that we were functioning alcoholics but in a way for most of us it was true. None of us were drinking at work, losing jobs or not getting through the day without a drink but it wasn't uncommon for us to drink a lot on Friday and/or Saturday night - drink before going out, close down the bars then go home and drink until 5-6am. Admittedly every couple months I'd end up out until closing time on Sunday night but I'd always be at work on Monday. We'd also hit up HH during the week sometimes mostly out of boredom and because we were less than a mile from all the bars so it was easy to grab a bite and a drink. That's the type of stuff that's easier to pull off in your 20's when you bounce back quicker but most of us grew out of it and might go out for a laid back happy hour every few months now at most. When you go out a lot you see the same people out and realize there's a lot of functioning alcoholics out there.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 10:20:54 GMT -5
I think it's sometimes hard to differentiate between habit and addiction until it's taken away.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 2, 2016 10:22:39 GMT -5
When you no longer have control over your drinking. I think what that looks like is different for every person. But if you're always saying to yourself "I'm not going to drink tonight" and then you end up drinking at home by yourself, or "I'll go out with my friends but just drink water" and then end up being driven home, you may be an alcoholic. I don't think it's necessarily dependent on legal trouble or even job loss, etc.... I know some very functional alcoholics who clearly have a drinking problem but have never had a DUI, still get to work on time, etc. Meanwhile, my dad, who I would not classify as an alcoholic by any stretch (I am not sure I've ever even seen him drink) has two DUI convictions under his belt just from acting like enough of an ass to the cop(s) who pulled him over to get hauled off for <0.05. One of my very best childhood friends is a recovering alcoholic. She has been sober since we were 22. Her adult life has been harder (and certainly more different) in many ways since she stopped drinking around the same time the rest of us were starting.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 2, 2016 10:29:28 GMT -5
I've thought about this a lot... if you wake up EVERY morning with 'hang over symptoms' -- even if you are just "draggy' or tired... or feel you need alittle something to get you going... you are an alcoholic - just because you can get thru the day (after having a beer breakfast and/or lunch) and save your 'heavy drinking' for the evening - doesn't mean you don't have a problem. My dad was a high functioning alcoholic... he went to work M-F and drank heavily every evening. At Home life wasn't particularly pleasant.
The thing is... drunk people (or slightly buzzed people) don't really realize the consequences of their "drunk/buzzed" times... they think it's great and that they are accomplishing something while they are 'drunk/buzzed' - so yeah the lawn gets mowed and maybe some other things get done (haphazardly or barely good enough) or maybe something that should take about an hour takes 4 hours (because of 'needing' a break for a beer...) . And, sure, it's fun to go out every Thurs/Fri night and drink - yeah, it sucks to have a hang over on Friday morning before work - but it's ok... it's Friday. Then it's OK if the only thing you accomplish on Saturday is 'mowing the lawn' because you're hungover/tired from the work week - you can start drinking/partying again late in the afternoon. Sunday's pretty much another day of 'day long drinking' - yeah, maybe you're not 'falling down drunk' but you aren't really 'doing' anything either - other than having a beer and watching TV or wasting time on the internet or shopping or hanging with your buds... Monday sucks because you really do have a hang over (and you smell bad) and you can't wait to get home, sit down, have a beer and watch more TV.
I wouldn't really call the above person an alcoholic... they definitely have a problem... but odds are something could change in their life - where on a daily basis they have something to do where they didn't have access to alcohol OR something wher alcohol isn't "part of the process" and they'd be fine - they wouldn't need to sneak out and have a drink.
The thing is... it's really easy to get stuck in the runt of "go to work, come home, have a couple of drinks, watch TV, go to bead, wake up feeling crappy, go to work" over and over... And then on the Weekends you need a break from 'feeling crappy' all week so you might as well "party".. and then it's Monday morning again. You start to LOOK like and ACT like an alcoholic... you start not wanting to do certain things - because there might not be alcohol involved (and how fun can that be?) Or you are just tired and you deserve to have a break - because you are tired (being tired - doesn't mean you can't hoist a glass or bottle!)
I think alcohol is a crutch for a lot of people - or a 'trap' - maybe not life threatening - but it definitely "stops you from doing stuff you otherwise COULD be doing - that maybe you would want to do - if you weren't so tired, and not feeling so great, and another beer/wine would certainly help make you feel better....".
I don't regular drinkers - realize that they feeling "crappy or tired" because of the alcohol... they might not be 'hungover' - headache, upset tummy, ache-y or whatever other incapacitating things come with a hang over... sometimes/often times they are just cranky, slow, and tired the next day...
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resolution
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Post by resolution on May 2, 2016 11:57:42 GMT -5
The thing is... it's really easy to get stuck in the runt of "go to work, come home, have a couple of drinks, watch TV, go to bead, wake up feeling crappy, go to work" over and over... And then on the Weekends you need a break from 'feeling crappy' all week so you might as well "party".. and then it's Monday morning again. You start to LOOK like and ACT like an alcoholic... you start not wanting to do certain things - because there might not be alcohol involved (and how fun can that be?) Or you are just tired and you deserve to have a break - because you are tired (being tired - doesn't mean you can't hoist a glass or bottle!)
I think alcohol is a crutch for a lot of people - or a 'trap' - maybe not life threatening - but it definitely "stops you from doing stuff you otherwise COULD be doing - that maybe you would want to do - if you weren't so tired, and not feeling so great, and another beer/wine would certainly help make you feel better....".
I don't regular drinkers - realize that they feeling "crappy or tired" because of the alcohol... they might not be 'hungover' - headache, upset tummy, ache-y or whatever other incapacitating things come with a hang over... sometimes/often times they are just cranky, slow, and tired the next day...
I think you just described how my allergies make me feel some days.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on May 2, 2016 12:05:49 GMT -5
Well if anybody cares . . . there actually IS a clinical definition of alcoholism. It is defined not by what you drink, how much you drink or how often you drink, but what happens to you as a result of drinking.
Someone can have a drink every day and still function, hold down a job, be good to their families, wake up without hangovers, etc. Just because they drink every day does not mean they're an alcoholic.
Someone can be sober 364 days a year, and on Christmas eve get rip roaring drunk and tear up the house. That person has an alcohol problem.
In the clinical world, alcoholism is defined by functionality. If bad stuff happens (you lose your job, you get DUIs, you damage property, you beat your spouse/kids, your spouse leaves you because of your drinking) guess what - you have a problem. That's where the reference to legality comes in.
And clearly - every person is different. The diagnosis is made on a case-by-case basis. There is no one-size-fits-all in the DSM.
The other thing to keep in mind is that it is a progressive disease. It is easy to start out "not having a problem" and progress to BIG problems.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 12:22:56 GMT -5
If alcohol makes your life worse you have a problem with alcohol. I think the word alcoholic is loaded with too much baggage to mean anything exact.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 2, 2016 12:34:41 GMT -5
I think the threshold is when you need it, and not drinking it causes discomfort.
So, someone who has a few drinks after work, "to de stress" to me is an alcoholic if not engaging in this ritual is uncomfortable. There are a lot of "functioning alcoholics."
Then again, many people who are addicted probably tell themselves they can stop at any time.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on May 2, 2016 12:35:06 GMT -5
It took me till my 30s to figure out how to drink responsibly. I wasn't an addict but I was definitely a binge drinker - if I was having one glass of wine I was having 2 bottles. If I went to a bar I ended up dancing on the bar.
Now I can (almost always) have just a couple. There is still a point, though, where if I am in a certain mood or have a couple drinks too fast, I think it's a good idea to have a couple more and wake up in the morning wanting to die.
I'm not quite sure what that classification is. I'm not an alcoholic per se, but I'm also not completely independent from alcohol.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 12:35:30 GMT -5
Ugh, Saturday night alone classified me as one, I went from being able to go back to back in my 20's to having 2/3 day hangovers. Bender nights are now very few and very far between.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on May 2, 2016 13:06:08 GMT -5
My DH and I discuss this regularly. We have different ideas on where the tipping point into alcoholism falls. I'm sure some people think we drink too much. But, I can point to weeks/months where we don't drink at all. Sometimes, we have a drink every night. And sometimes (like on vacation) we drink way more than we should in 1 sitting. I don't think DH and I are alcoholics by any means. But, like Pants, we aren't completely independent from alcohol. This doesn't bother my DH in the slightest. It bothers me once in a while, and when it does, I just stop drinking until I forget that I was bothered Also, I live in a walking city. I don't even own a car. So some of my paranoia about drinking is much less here, since I'm not going to get a DUI. And since my city is too expensive to drink anywhere but at home, there is no real possibility of a "drunk in public" charge either
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 2, 2016 13:22:11 GMT -5
I don't think drinking to excess, even fairly regularly makes you an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone that NEEDS to drink. I have/had several uncles that are alcoholics. They are completely different than I was in my teens/20s when I binge drank fairly often. For me it was immaturity and the love of a good party. But I didn't wake up and need to drink. Now I do drink several times a week but it is a glass here or a glass there. Every few months I forget myself, tie one on and swear the next morning that I learned my lesson (because hangovers in your 40s take longer to recover from than short-term surgery!!!)
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 2, 2016 13:59:04 GMT -5
I don't think drinking to excess, even fairly regularly makes you an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone that NEEDS to drink. I have/had several uncles that are alcoholics. They are completely different than I was in my teens/20s when I binge drank fairly often. For me it was immaturity and the love of a good party. But I didn't wake up and need to drink. Now I do drink several times a week but it is a glass here or a glass there. Every few months I forget myself, tie one on and swear the next morning that I learned my lesson (because hangovers in your 40s take longer to recover from than short-term surgery!!!) I did this several months ago. Swore it would never happen again. But it at some point will. I'm not in my 40s yet, but I'm pretty close. I'm still not able to binge drink and then get up for work the next day like I could in my 20s. But that's ok. I don't need to do that anyway.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on May 2, 2016 14:35:15 GMT -5
It is the lack of control when you drink that makes someone an alcoholic. I've had 2 people on the periphery of my life that are/were alcoholics. My late BIL and my cousin. Both spent time on and off the wagon. My cousin describes the last time she got drunk and sobered up for good (well over 10 years). She had started drinking again with friends. Just at parties etc. Within a month she was passed out drunk in the garage of a guy she didn't know. Her friends were leaving her and she realized I am going to die if I don't get this straightened up.
For my BIL, when he fell of the wagon, all he did was drink. Wouldn't eat, wouldn't work, wouldn't drive. Etc. Just drank and drank and drank. He had no control at all. The last time his brothers got him to sober up, he said, I'll do it on my own. I'm fine. He was, until his BAC hit zero and his body was went into organ failure from withdrawals.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on May 2, 2016 14:41:38 GMT -5
Even if you limit the definition of an alcoholic to someone who drinks themselves to death, there have still been a few in my family, so I try to be careful with alcohol. Still, I probably drink more than the average person, and I am sure that I fit at least a few people's definition of an alcoholic because if someone invites me to a dry wedding, I will probably discretely spike every other drink that I have during the reception. I have told my family and friends that I hope they will let me know if they are concerned about my drinking. So far, they all think I am a responsible drinker. As I get older, I have noticed that I drink more often, but I hate feeling out of control or hungover, so I don't like to binge drink. I think that the best definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot stop drinking even when it is affecting his/her health and relationships.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 2, 2016 14:47:02 GMT -5
When DH was on speed he said that if he didn't take it he had no energy/motivation to do anything. He'd sleep all day. When he took it he could function and go about his day.
I'd imagine alcoholism is similar.
I do believe you can still have a problem with drinking. Like anything else we indulge in you can develop bad habits when it comes to alcohol.
I think you've crossed the line when you no longer care that you have a bad habit you NEED it.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 2, 2016 15:07:35 GMT -5
I don't know, but I think it's like pornography. I can't define what it is exactly but I usually know an alcoholic when I meet him/her. (Well, it usually takes me a little while to get to know them - but you know what I mean).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2016 15:36:31 GMT -5
when alcohol consumption begins to cause issues in your life, whether it be employment, educational, personal, or legal.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on May 2, 2016 15:47:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure the exact level of drinking it takes to make on an alcoholic, but I know one thing or sure: whatever amount I drink...it's definitely more than that. It's gotta be!
Like others I think it depends on if it's causing you problems in your life. If you cannot stop yourself from engaging in behaviors that are having dangerous or negative consequences in your life, you are probably an addict.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 2, 2016 16:09:06 GMT -5
So, would you say that drinking is someone's hobby when they do it often? The bottle of wine here and the case of beer there? I'd say that drinking as a hobby would be more social - in that you've come to expect drinking at get togethers? And I don't mean the once a year get together's I'm talking about the what seem to be every weekend outings - the ball games, cook outs, milestone parties (weddings, showers, religious milestones, graduations, b-day parties) for family and friends
I don't know about you by have several eating/drinking occasions EVERY week... it's hard to loose weight/diet when it seems just about every event on my weekly calendar revolves around food (and booze).
Is drinking just part of the social fabric?
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milee
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Post by milee on May 2, 2016 16:39:10 GMT -5
Is drinking just part of the social fabric? Definitely yes. At least among the friends and social circles I'm involved with. Honestly, that's one of several reasons I try to be mindful of overall consumption and avoid tipping into being an alcoholic. Because from what I've seen, once a person is an alcoholic, successful recovery almost always involves avoiding and changing social venues and friends at least for a while. I know I'd find it incredibly socially isolating to abstain at many of the events or even worse, have to avoid them all together. Heck, that's one of the harder things for me about having food sensitivities - it's socially isolating and awkward. I often find myself either eating small amounts of the food I'd rather avoid or even just not eating anything in groups at all rather than try to force my eating needs on a group or bore/impose on them with extensive talk about it. Suspect it would be even harder to be a recovering alcoholic and having to avoid alcohol.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on May 2, 2016 18:02:52 GMT -5
I think several people have already hit on the correct definition on here. To me, an alcoholic is someone who cannot go without alcohol for any period of time, whether it be short-term or long-term. If you need to drink at some point, you're an alcoholic. People who say, "I can go months or even years without drinking", but then get passed-out drunk one night or weekend define binge drinking to me. I know MADD has defined binge drinking as having five or more drinks on the same occasion. I think that definition is way too liberal. The people who I see binge drink can put away a 12-24 pack, or multiple bottles of wine or liquor at one time. By the same token, if you go to an all-day party or festival or wedding and reception, and have 12 drinks over the course of 12 hours, that isn't binge drinking to me, that is just participating in the celebration and drinking responsibly. Your body can process one drink an hour, roughly, so nursing one drink per hour is a good way to actually stay sober. The alcoholics I know, who are all functioning alcoholics, always have a definition of alcoholic that they don't meet. Most common one is that they say "someone who drinks before noon is an alcoholic". So if they wait until 1 pm, they're fine If you can't go a prolonged period of time without something, there is a very good chance you're addicted to it. There are benign addictions, like I know I am addicted to caffeine. But if you can't go any undefined period of time without drinking, you're an alcoholic.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on May 2, 2016 18:07:53 GMT -5
When you no longer have control over your drinking. I think what that looks like is different for every person. But if you're always saying to yourself "I'm not going to drink tonight" and then you end up drinking at home by yourself, or "I'll go out with my friends but just drink water" and then end up being driven home, you may be an alcoholic. I don't think it's necessarily dependent on legal trouble or even job loss, etc.... I know some very functional alcoholics who clearly have a drinking problem but have never had a DUI, still get to work on time, etc. Meanwhile, my dad, who I would not classify as an alcoholic by any stretch (I am not sure I've ever even seen him drink) has two DUI convictions under his belt just from acting like enough of an ass to the cop(s) who pulled him over to get hauled off for <0.05. One of my very best childhood friends is a recovering alcoholic. She has been sober since we were 22. Her adult life has been harder (and certainly more different) in many ways since she stopped drinking around the same time the rest of us were starting. Your Dad did that twice? Yikes! That doesn't sound good to me, but I thought you had to be over the limit to actually get a DUI.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 2, 2016 18:57:57 GMT -5
I see alcoholism as a spectrum. Habitual and long-term.
The least is a couple of glasses of wine or other drink daily.
The middle range is from alcohol laced water bottles to weekend or regular binge drinking.
The worst is black out after one or two drinks with no memory of what has happened. Unable to function without alcohol.
I have seen the entire spectrum in family members. The reason why I abstain.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 19:40:40 GMT -5
I've had someone that should know the clinical definition tell me I was an alcoholic. I was really offended. I did think about what they said and checked myself, and I was still offended.
It came about because I was honest about how when I'd get off work in the evenings, most nights I'd pour a drink. Sometimes twice. The thing was, once I poured it, I'd sip it so slowly that the ice would knelt and the drink would be really watery. By that time, I either pour it out and get some water because I was ready to go to bed, or I pour it out and make another one if I was still wide awake. The second one would often end up watery too. So what I was really doing was wasting a lot of money.
Being accused of being an alcoholic really bothered me, coming from who it did. I really thought about my behavior and decided they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. I'll drink if I'm socialising, but if I have to drive, I can nurse a drink for hours. I can have fun without drinking. I can and have gone days, weeks, even months without drinking for no particular reason, didn't miss it or even think about it.I've never been unable to do something I needed to do because of alcohol. Those are the things I think are symptoms of alcoholism, a person HAS to have it, it takes real effort to not drink regularly. I also think when a person has to hide how much they actually drink or sneak and drink so nobody will know the truth, chances are good there's a problem.
If I was an alcoholic, I'd be poor. I have a high tolerance and it takes quite a bit of alcohol for me to even get a buzz. I can drink like a drunk, but I couldn't afford to actually be one.
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