College truths.

[swamp]

elitedaily.com/life/culture/one-cares-4-0-10-harsh-realities-college/864556/

Your thoughts?

[finnime]

Good piece, worth reading.

Making choices in college that lead to more open doors rather than closing off options is better. And non-drunken social life does matter in school, a lot.

[Tennesseer]

Good, sound advice.

[giramomma]

I agree with most of it.

I don't agree that GPA doesn't matter. I think grad school is going to become a need by the time my youngest is in the workforce. Grades do matter for grad school. I don't agree that my morals were tested daily, either. They were hardly tested.

I also disagree about the free time thing. But, when I was in college, I was taking a full credit load (16-18 credits), working, and participating in organizations. Since I was pursuing two majors, I had all the academic coursework, plus several hours of practicing/playing a day.

I had a very hard adjustment after I was done with school. I didn't know what to do with all my time. I was not working a job that required more than 8 hours a day. And that was before my teaching got hugely ramped up.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I don't vehemently disagree with any of the article.  

I went to a HUGE state school for undergrad.  I am absolutely certain that not one of my professors remembers me.  I didn't appreciate the value of networking and making connections.  I focused on studying, sports, socializing.  So, while I was active and made friends, I didn't use faculty to help me move on after college and didn't even know I could.  I did well in college, but was essentially anonymous from an academic point of view which is fairly easy to be in huge schools.  I saw my academic advisor just once -- during Freshman orientation.  I didn't even appreciate the value of finding a professor to guide me through course selection, etc.  Fortunately, I worked all through college, so I was able to use my bosses as my job-hunting, and later grad school, references.  But, the job hunt was completely on my own and not always according to any plan.  I often just fell into jobs and my career.    

Fast forward to today.  ODS is winding up his Freshman year.  We encouraged him to attend a smaller school where professors would know him by sight and name.  He is already connecting with faculty in ways I never did.  He is aiming toward an environmental science major, but despite dyslexia, he did really well in a first-semester Philosophy course.  The professor of that course has an impressive resume and is quite active in various professional organizations and on various corporate boards.  She has taken a shine to ODS, and her tenure and rank at the school has enabled ODS to get into a couple of full classes and she arranged so that the head of the Environmental Science Department is his advisor.  She also encouraged him, knowing of his dyslexia, that he complete a Philosophy minor.  I met her during Parents' Weekend and she gushed about ODS' open mind and ready class participation.  The minor is only 6 courses -- some of which satisfy other core requirements.  This professor will be another wonderful reference and could help ODS find internships and jobs.  

He also has his college lacrosse coach to use to connect with lax alumni for internships and jobs.  

ODS, one year in to college, is already light years ahead of me in networking. 

Although I do think one should work toward a strong GPA, I think the author otherwise nailed it.   

[tallguy]

Screwed up #6.

Is your school in a college town? If so, enjoy the drink specials, as that $2 drink will be at least $10 in a major city. And yes, that is a 500 percent price increase.

No, it's a 400% increase.  Partook of a few too many $2 drinks, did we?  

[alabamagal]

Most college students do not turn 21 until they are juniors/seniors so have to watch out about recommending drink specials!  I know it goes on though....

I like most of the recommendations.  I have always told my kids that I expected them to do their best as far as grades in college, but not necessarily a 4.0.  I have worked at companies that highly value gpa during recruiting, and I have known engineers and scientists who made it through school with a 4.0 and they did not do well in the real world.  But I did expect my kids to do well enough in school to maintain their full tuition scholarships which require they keep above 3.0.  All 3 kept their grades up enough that they did not lose scholarships.

[alabamagal]

Networking in school is fine, but I think that after you get out of school, networking is easier based on the school you went to.  And going to a well known, well respected school gets you attention, especially from others who went to that school.

For instance, my son has an interview this Wednesday for a summer internship.  The hiring manager talked to him on the phone and said she was from a small town 30 minutes from where DS grew up, went to the same mid-level university then transferred to the top level state school (same path my DS has taken).  So they have a similar college experience that gives them something in common to start out with.

[ArchietheDragon]

Good advice.  But like most advice it is worth what you pay for it.  

[giramomma]

Apr 11, 2016 10:50:09 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

I don't vehemently disagree with any of the article.  

I went to a HUGE state school for undergrad.  I am absolutely certain that not one of my professors remembers me.  I didn't appreciate the value of networking and making connections.  I focused on studying, sports, socializing.  So, while I was active and made friends, I didn't use faculty to help me move on after college and didn't even know I could.  I did well in college, but was essentially anonymous from an academic point of view which is fairly easy to be in huge schools.  I saw my academic advisor just once -- during Freshman orientation.  I didn't even appreciate the value of finding a professor to guide me through course selection, etc.  Fortunately, I worked all through college, so I was able to use my bosses as my job-hunting, and later grad school, references.  But, the job hunt was completely on my own and not always according to any plan.  I often just fell into jobs and my career.    

I think your experience depends on what you majored in college.

My alma mater had 35K undergrads when I went. The majors I had were through smaller schools within my university.... I'm still in the same town I went to college in, and if I bump into someone on the bus or whatever, I'm still acknowledged by professors, nearly 20 years later. I wasn't even in classes with some that acknowledged me.

DH was also in a smaller school withing our public university. One of his professors had students over for dinner a few times.

Now, had we picked a major in the College of L&S, well, our experience would be different.

We learned from experience to avoid our advisor. She was notorious for giving kids the wrong advice resulting in my friends needing to spend an extra semester in college.

[vonna]

Hmmm,,, If I had read this list while in college it would have probably stressed me out or pissed me off.

[Deleted]

Agree that GPA doesn't matter that much, I haven't even been asked since my first job out of school and it was rarely asked when I was part of an interview panel. I disagree that major doesn't matter, in my hiring experiences it has made a significant difference for entry level jobs and has been a tiebreaker for professional jobs.

$2 drink specials?  We usually got the good stuff and drank in the apartment or at a frat at neighboring schools.  We did get into a couple bars underage however as we knew the bouncers.

[wyouser]

Geez, now you've done it! Parts of those date me to "pre-fossil!! Check the label on the back of my neck, Surely I must have "expired" somewhere in the last millennium....Networking? Netflex? Not in 1969 Baby! Freetime management? A fulltime course load and a 40 hr/week job?   $2.00 drink specials? Man, a whole bottle of Ripple or Boones farm was less than that. There were dives where a pitcher of beer was only 50 cents. But, the rest is still true.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I worked full-time during college and took two majors simultaneously and worked on the school newspapers ~ I didn't really have much free time.

And GPA mattered quite a lot as I was applying to law schools.

[Tiny]

I went to the Community College and then went for my BS degree years later via 'night school' no online universities back then

The list sounds pretty reasonable. Even the GPA one... ONLY because the GPA in question is maintaining a 4.0 (straight A's) versus getting a sprinkling of B's (or OMG taking a C in some class...). It's not advocating barely scraping by in ALL your classes. It's saying maybe you won't be a failure for life if you get a B (or two or three).

I think there's a life lesson there (if you truly aren't on an education/career path were you MUST be in the top 10 of your class to be a future success) in that sometimes you need to pick your battles - there will come a time when you just can't do it all, something has to give... and it might be a class that you just can't accomplish ALL the requirements to get the Gold Star and maintain all the other Gold Stars you are after. It's not being a failure. Sometimes it's being realistic.

A handful of HS/College friends crashed and burned when they couldn't maintain their straight A, top of the class position. And then seemed to NOT go on to recover. It was like, if they weren't good enough to be Number 1, they might as well just settle for number 1000 defeat was absolute.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

It's mostly true.  Graduate schools are more interested in grades if you don't have any working experience, but they're not as important as you'd think (unless you are attempting to get into a competitive program like medical, dental or vet school, or some other programs that have gotten horribly competitive).

I went to a fairly decent sized college, and am FB friends with one of my professors who was my advisor.

And I'm really, REALLY dating myself when I say that I didn't have to worry about underage drinking while in college - because drinking age was 18.  The big deal then was to take advantage of the buffets that the bars would put out for dinner and the 2 for 1 drink specials.  For the price of one drink, we could get a second and dinner.  We had a set schedule as to what place had what.  Who had the taco buffet. who had the wings, who did a sandwich station, etc.  I ate better in college than I did after I got a job!!

[haapai]

Meh.  The article wasn't what I expected and I didn't get much out of it.  Young author, short article, n=1.

I was expecting slightly harsher "truths". 

[Phoenix84]

I agree GPA doesn't matter much, for the most part.

I had a fairly low GPA, 2.6.  I was able to get into just about any grad school I applied for.  Including some well known schools.  It's really not that hard.  And I've managed a successful career with a moderate GPA.  

Maybe for specific advanced programs, like law school or medical school, or specific employers, GPA matters a lot, but the author is correct in that almost no one is going to care if you got a 4.0 or a 3.0.

[wvugurl26]

It's probably true if you aren't going for something very competitive that a 3.50 is fine. Killing yourself to get a 4.0 isn't necessary. My roommate graduated with a 4.0 and wishes she'd been a little more well rounded. I graduated with a 3.8 for bachelor's and 3.6 for graduate school. I had to maintain a fairly high GPA to stay in the honors college. It mattered when I was getting my first couple of professional jobs. My first firm didn't hire people with less than a B in accounting courses. In some areas though you are just checking a box that you have a degree so it won't matter as much.

[alabamagal]

Apr 11, 2016 19:41:06 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I went to the Community College and then went for my BS degree years later via 'night school' no online universities back then

The list sounds pretty reasonable. Even the GPA one... ONLY because the GPA in question is maintaining a 4.0 (straight A's) versus getting a sprinkling of B's (or OMG taking a C in some class...). It's not advocating barely scraping by in ALL your classes. It's saying maybe you won't be a failure for life if you get a B (or two or three).

I think there's a life lesson there (if you truly aren't on an education/career path were you MUST be in the top 10 of your class to be a future success) in that sometimes you need to pick your battles - there will come a time when you just can't do it all, something has to give... and it might be a class that you just can't accomplish ALL the requirements to get the Gold Star and maintain all the other Gold Stars you are after. It's not being a failure. Sometimes it's being realistic.

A handful of HS/College friends crashed and burned when they couldn't maintain their straight A, top of the class position. And then seemed to NOT go on to recover. It was like, if they weren't good enough to be Number 1, they might as well just settle for number 1000 defeat was absolute.

That is exactly why I am ok with not getting a 4.0.

[skubikky]

Some reasonable points some points that are just the opinion of the writer. 

[NoNamePerson]

Some good points but then I got my MRS. degree instead Only thing I sometimes think if I could go back in time but nah, no real regrets.

[Regis]

When reviewing resumes of graduating college seniors, I normally look for the following in this order:

1.  Initiative to have completed an internship or some work in the engineering industry.
2.  GPA and classes - especially those that make you actually solve problems, not just rote memory skills.
3.  Extracurricular activities to show that they're well rounded.  

So to me, GPA can certainly be an influence but not the end-all, be-all when looking for a job.

I do believe that it's a little different when applying to graduate schools.  My son applied for and received a graduate assistant position for athletic training for a D1 soccer program.  I think his GPA was a big factor in him getting the phone and on-campus interviews.  That being said, he also interned for a NASL soccer team and had connections in the athletic training field as well.  I believe those two things are what actually got him the GA position.

In speaking with DS, he indicated that the number of interviews and the amount of the stipends offered for GA positions pretty well corresponded with the GPA of the students.

[TheOtherMe]

I was another person who worked many hours and thought I had to have the 4.0.  That meant I studied in most of my free time. 

Back in my day, GPA did matter.  I know it mattered for my two nephews who went to grad school.  One of them almost didn't get in to a PhD program because of his GPA.  He showed them by getting his PhD with the highest GPA of his class.  Of course, now he is in to publish or perish.  He has published enough articles to have tenure and just needs to pay his dues in terms of years teaching at the college level.  His wife is one article short.

I am another person who wishes I had graduated college a little more well rounded.  I actually found grad school to be easier than my undergrad school.

[Ryan]

GPA matters for getting interviews and getting your first job out of college and same with choosing the right major (or at least one in the ballpark)  Once you have some work experience, that stuff matters a little less but a Communications major is not going to get an interview for an entry level finance job.  Why would they?  They have a bunch of finance majors to choose from anyways.  In other words, don't default to communications because you can't make up your mind.  

I think "networking" is kinda overrated in college as well.  Sure, it helps to know people that can open the door but you're not going to build many meaningful relationships walking around job fairs.  In my experience, the people I know that have gotten good interviews either get good grades or their parents know someone that works at a company that can offer them an internship.  The people actually on the college campus aren't going to be able to do anything for them.

[mroped]

It misses the most important truth about college: not everyone should/deserves to go to college!
Networking while in college: what is that about? Be in a fraternity where you get drunk every evening on booze that someone brought illegaly on campus?

21 as the legal drinking age is one of the dumbest laws ever!!!
Go and fight for your country(and die if necessary), get married and have children but don't touch that beer! It is illegal!

[zibazinski]

If you have a specific goal in mind and some kids actually do. Or they're between two. DH wanted to be a lawyer or an accountant. He took classes that helped him decide. Not all kids are that focused that early. I was and still am interested in archeology but had parents that said "college, yes, archeology, no." I miss it but it was the right decision. I can always pursue it now, as a hobby. I love when I read still these parents sending their kids off to 25k a year schools to "find themselves." Glad they can afford it. I think a GAP year makes a lot of sense to undecided children as well as exposing students in high school to a lot of different professions.

[Works4me]

Apr 11, 2016 23:14:27 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I agree GPA doesn't matter much, for the most part.

I had a fairly low GPA, 2.6.  I was able to get into just about any grad school I applied for.  Including some well known schools.  It's really not that hard.  And I've managed a successful career with a moderate GPA.  

Maybe for specific advanced programs, like law school or medical school, or specific employers, GPA matters a lot, but the author is correct in that almost no one is going to care if you got a 4.0 or a 3.0.

2.6? Interesting - where and what programs are you talking about? Please tell me more.

Any Grad program I have ever looked into requires a minimum of 3.0 for admission - if there is space available,  and with good test scores plus recommendations,  one can sometimes be admitted on a probationary status. But I have only explored accredited programs that are well respected professionally. 

[Phoenix84]

University of Massachusetts, Lowell nuclear engineering, wright state university masters in public health, Colorado school of mines nuclear engineering.

I moved around a lot for work and was only able to take 1 or 2 classes at each, before moving and re establishing residency and applying again.

I forget exactly which, but I think some were probationary admission, but admission nonetheless. I had to maintain above a 3.0 in grad school. They were happy to take my money and let me take classes.

All are acredited public universities.

[happyhoix]

Totally disagree about the 'having the right major almost never matters.'

Used to be, you only needed a college degree - any degree. English majors could get hired to work in banks. Philosophy majors got hired to run departments.

Not any more. A lot of my son's friends got a generic 'business' degree in college and struggled to find any job at all. If an employer wants an accountant, they hire someone with an accounting degree, not an English degree. Medicine, engineering, teaching - most jobs want an employee with a specific type of degree, and philosophy majors struggle to land a job.

Now it IS true that you can start you career in one job and move up in a company into a different one. Start as an engineer and end up managing a manufacturing facility, for example. Or start as an accountant and end up running a company. But getting your foot in the door in the first place? Nope.