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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2019 16:44:03 GMT -5
You are underestimating the tax hit. $7000 on top of your current salary will involve more than 15% in taxes. That may be why you owe money to the IRS. They never take out enough in taxes when you earn a low amount like that. So be prepared for an unpleasant hit come tax time. I would call and talk with them. You shouldn't be selecting the textbook if you aren't teaching the course. That's what I would use as the prompt for them to decide. I'm thinking it is about 7500 - so about 20% for taxes would leave 6k. There has been a system raise since I left, although - not sure this position is affected. so I don't know. But even if I only got 5k out of it, money is money - that is 30% tax on 7250. It would help with debt, and for refinancing to have higher income. Will be looking to refinance the mortgage, hopefully to get quite a bit of money out. and then to refinance the student loans to try to get better rates. but the thought of that mid-semester, this-is-never-going-to-end, grading-all-weekend, experience is not something I'm looking forward to! I swear that I am not trying to talk you out of this! But it is doubtful that this income will have any effect on refinancing. They don't look at total income by itself; they look at sources of income. And part-time jobs have to be much longer than a year or two to count. I learned this when I worked part-time at Macy's to supplement my teaching. You can understand their point of view. You may not have this income next semester. Always protect your primary position. It is easy to lose sight of that is where your $$$ really come from. This may help protect that so it may be exactly what you need to do. But don't do it just for the $$$ if it makes it harder to do your primary position well.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 12, 2019 16:53:38 GMT -5
You are underestimating the tax hit. $7000 on top of your current salary will involve more than 15% in taxes. That may be why you owe money to the IRS. They never take out enough in taxes when you earn a low amount like that. So be prepared for an unpleasant hit come tax time. I would call and talk with them. You shouldn't be selecting the textbook if you aren't teaching the course. That's what I would use as the prompt for them to decide. I'm thinking it is about 7500 - so about 20% for taxes would leave 6k. There has been a system raise since I left, although - not sure this position is affected. so I don't know. But even if I only got 5k out of it, money is money - that is 30% tax on 7250. It would help with debt, and for refinancing to have higher income. Will be looking to refinance the mortgage, hopefully to get quite a bit of money out. and then to refinance the student loans to try to get better rates. but the thought of that mid-semester, this-is-never-going-to-end, grading-all-weekend, experience is not something I'm looking forward to! It probably won't help much for refinancing, depending on how long of a gap you've had from 2nd job income. You could try to argue it, but most underwriters aren't going to give you credit for 2nd job income until you have a uninterrupted 2 year history of it. Job gaps of more than 30 days (and I'd say definitely 90 days) are going start the clock over for most places.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 12, 2019 17:09:55 GMT -5
Thanks good info Rae and Susanna!
I'll wait until Monday to address this, and think it over this weekend.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Jul 12, 2019 17:25:02 GMT -5
I've been asked if I want to manage a team of 4 at work. I have never been a manager, not sure I want to take that on right now as I'm still growing into my current role, and I have young kids at home. It would be a good resume/career builder, but I can honestly see myself in my current role for a decade or more. This is the role I always pictured. One step up leaves technical work and becomes all management, more hours, and way more stress. It would take a major upheaval for me to leave this company. I'm striving to keep a good work life balance. Sometimes I need to work more, but not always and that's perfect. My kids are 6 and 10 so I have lots to do with/for them. I have no interest in going thru extensive hr people management training. Having to do reviews and other required paperwork for my would be reports makes me want to shoot myself in the foot. Doesn't sound like it's a title change or more money. Even if it were, I don't want/need either. 2 of the reports are my best work friends and even friends I would call outside of work. With my last promotion, i began to assign them work and lost some of the personal contact I had with them already which has been hard for both sides. The third one I've become a mentor too already. The 4th is new and is taking way too long to get up to speed, plays around online too much, and isn't a good communicator. So feels like I'd inherit a big problem. I really can't see much positive, so I'm leaning towards saying no. Another person at my level has said he would take them, and he actually had them a couple of years ago. So I wouldn't be leaving my boss or team in need. Any thoughts? My DH is trying to get off the management track for pretty much all the reasons you listed. His argument is that he would be more valuable to the team and client in a more active role. They can easily find someone to set schedules, do performance reviews, interview new hires, etc...
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 12, 2019 17:54:09 GMT -5
Thanks good info Rae and Susanna! I'll wait until Monday to address this, and think it over this weekend. I've rethought my response and I think you could have it considered after another 12 month stint because of your long term history prior to the gap, but less than that is going to be tough. We're just really picky.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 13, 2019 9:24:17 GMT -5
Thanks good info Rae and Susanna! I'll wait until Monday to address this, and think it over this weekend. I've rethought my response and I think you could have it considered after another 12 month stint because of your long term history prior to the gap, but less than that is going to be tough. We're just really picky. well - it isn't a whole lot of money that's for sure, so not too much a difference either way.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 14, 2019 14:17:30 GMT -5
I would like some advice on this e-mail that I will be sending my boss on Monday. Background- When I started this job I ran into a buzzsaw named C. She was mad that she wasn't just given my job outright, without having to apply for it. For whatever reason the boss pretty much gives her whatever she wants even though she treats other co-workers like crap. She has flat out told me to my face that she plans to have me train her and then take my job. Another time she told me to my face that she doesn't like me and she has told co-workers that I have a title I don't deserve. For the most part I have tried to take the high road but the boss is aware of the issues because she has complained about me and then at the end of March the stress reached a breaking point and I ended up sobbing in the bosses office. Not my finest moment but it reached a point that nothing was going to stop those tears.
I have started looking for another job as is the women who works closely on our team. Right now it is just the 3 of us working together, there is also an open position. I am somewhat hesitant in being so specific because it does tip my hand that I started tracking every single incident with her since the end of March because I wouldn't put it past her to report me to HR for some infraction since she hasn't managed to push me out yet.
T,
On Friday C e-mailed me that you had approved her taking over the Anydoc process one day a week so that she would keep her training up to date. At the end of the last training period she asked that I let her know if anything in the Anydoc process came up that she should see. I have done that and was turned down every time. Based on a conversation you and I had at the end of March I would offer to show her but if she was uninterested to not push the issue and that is what I have done. That advice came about because of an issue that occurred on 3/20 and when I asked if she wished to sit with me she just walked off. On 4/22 I messaged her if she wanted to sit with me because I had some unusual errors. She said she was busy and would look at them later. She never followed up. On 5/21 I asked C if she wanted to be trained on how to remove a claim from a file and she declined because she had just hooked her knee up to her ice machine. The following day when I was still working this file I asked if she wanted to see how to change the numbering on the HL segments and to review how HL segments work. She said "it is just changing a number I don’t need to see that". On 6/11 I asked her if she would be able to cover the Anydoc process on 6/12 since I need to leave early to meet with the plumbers. She said that would be fine and wasn’t an issue. The next day she suddenly has a hair appt and will also be leaving early for the day. I replied to her e-mail that with all the testing going on with TIBCO at the moment and the fact that it was only one week before she would be gone for a week that we would revisit the conversation when she returned from vacation. She didn’t like that answer but I didn’t feel that was it was unreasonable to postpone it until after her vacation. I understand the need for a backup for the Anydoc process but I am also not happy with giving it up 20% of the time when I have made the effort to keep up the training. There is a difference between keeping a backup trained and having a sudden shift in responsibilities. When we began the cross training on the Anydoc process I asked you at that time if the plan was to shift the process over to C and at that time you said no. In that same conversation I told you that I enjoyed the Anydoc process and would like to keep it if possible.
I also understand that the needs of the department shift with time but in the future if changes need to be made in my responsibilities I hope that I will be given the consideration of having a discussion first before just receiving an e-mail that this is what will be happening.
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Jul 14, 2019 17:14:54 GMT -5
Sharon -
What is it that you want? As females, we beat around the bush and are not direct. Your draft e-mail implies that a conversation beforehand would have satisfied you. I don't think that is true.
It sounds like you are worried that the company would fall behind. Phrase the e-mail that there is sufficient backlog with the current testing load. Map out what needs to be accomplished, it's time restraints, and when things can be interrupted for other people to use Anydoc. Also, map out that it takes X time to be current in the training. Recommend a training schedule (which you spell out). For example, she could be conducting training during your lunchtime and then an hour or so at the end of the day, so you can prepare for the next day. Make it about the company's needs and the current constraints, not about your co-worker.
How are you going to fill the 20% of your time? In your e-mail, you can say that due to the desired backup for the process, you would like to use that extra time to come up with directions for the process as you have seen some inconsistencies in the past that you've been able to solve on your own.
Do NOT bring up all the times that the co-worker has not jumped in when you've asked her to; it sounds like you are tattle-telling. Your co-worker could just as easily state that you've been hogging it and that there have only been a few times in the last four months that you have "allowed" her to be part of the process; she couldn't drop everything at your whim.
ETA: Also, the co-worker may be misrepresenting what your supervisor said. You should confirm that the supervisor wants the co-worker to work on it a full day every week.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 14, 2019 18:10:19 GMT -5
mary2029 thank you for your comments. Here are some clarifications. The Anydoc process normally takes 15 minutes to 30 minutes a day unless we have a catastrophic failure then it will probably take a day or more to get straightened out. I put in 20% since she wants to do it one day a week. It is run every day at 2:15. It is a small but important process because of government regulations and timely paying etc. The whole point of this e-mail is to cover my ass. What I really want is to not have to ever deal with this co-worker ever again. What the boss wants is for us to be best friends. She is a bully and a very toxic person and for whatever reason the boss likes her and gives her whatever she wants. She is allowed to work a flex schedule so is out of the office every Friday by noon. Boss was mad when he found out that we were both going to be off on Friday July 5th and asked if he had approved for both of us to be gone. We told him yes he had approved all that. He then goes on that we need to coordinate our days off because of the Anydoc process. Later on I asked him, in private, if I needed to move the other Fridays I had off during the summer since C is gone every Friday by noon. I didn't go at it with that means I will never be allowed to take a Friday off but he got the message and said that no it wasn't an issue. She has threatened to quit if they take away her Friday afternoons. Actually she threatens to quit a lot.
The reason I put those dates and those details in there is because of a conversation that I had with the boss regarding additional training. I want him to know that I had done what was asked of me on multiple occasions and it was rebuffed until she decided she wanted the training.
On my annual review I was marked down and told that I needed to work harder to get along with difficult employees. So in response to that I have taken two additional trainings, offered by corp., on the company approved method of communicating with each other etc. Within the first 3-4 months of starting I was treated to a long conversation about everyone she has gotten fired. I should have started documenting back then but thought if I took the high road it wouldn't be an issue. I was so wrong.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 14, 2019 18:40:30 GMT -5
I got my official job offer!
Salary is what I asked for, benefits are pretty good (a few more $ per pay period than previous job, a little higher deductible on POS plan, but I am dropping DS so cost should go down). Relocation is not as good as I was hoping, but that is one time thing. I am excited to add this specific part of pharma industry to my resume. I am targeting 10 more years working, so even if things don’t work out long term it will be good for my resume.
They said start date of Aug 5, I will need to move back 1 week possibly 1 day more. Even though I am not eoring I have a vacation scheduled 😉. It is my extended family reunion plus dads 80 birthday.
And I will be updating screen name (again).
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 14, 2019 18:49:47 GMT -5
Congrats alabamagal Which state will you be moving to?
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Jul 14, 2019 18:59:10 GMT -5
I understand that, but you don’t want to tell your boss that. You also don’t know what your boss is thinking; he may be giving her enough rope to hang herself. It sounds to me like he doesn’t have balls to stand up to her, so he needs her to fail on her own.
You need to let C have her time doing this. It doesn’t sound like you need to babysit C, but that she just needs to run it every now and again to remain current. Don’t make it easy on C, but you need to state that you will be there if C has questions (but C has to come to you with her questions).
You don’t want to put those dates and details in the first e-mail if you haven’t mentioned them to your boss beforehand… that puts you in a bad light.
Maybe something like:
Hi T –
C e-mailed me last Friday that you approved her working on the process one day a week so she can get her training up to date. Have you designated a specific day of the week when she should be doing a run? If C has any challenges during the run and comes to me with questions, I want to make sure that I have time to answer them.
As per your guidance in March, I haven’t pushed the training issue with C when she had other priorities. However, I do think that this is a great idea since the only way to be effective in this program is to work on it as Other Co-Worker and I well know from the last five months working with the process.
Please let me know when you plan to have C work on the process, so I can plan my week accordingly. Also, if there is anything else that you would like me to do while C is training, let me know.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 15, 2019 6:03:12 GMT -5
mary2029 has talked me off the ledge. I will still send the boss an e-mail but it won't be the original one I posted. Sometimes though you have to write out all that crap even if it doesn't get sent. I have never encountered a co-worker who is so nasty to everyone and gets to keeps their job without any repercussions and gets whatever she wants handed to her.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Jul 15, 2019 9:14:17 GMT -5
mary2029 has talked me off the ledge. I will still send the boss an e-mail but it won't be the original one I posted. Sometimes though you have to write out all that crap even if it doesn't get sent. I have never encountered a co-worker who is so nasty to everyone and gets to keeps their job without any repercussions and gets whatever she wants handed to her. I feel for you, Sharon. I have a coworker like that. It's like, the more incompetent she is, the more the boss gives in to her ridiculous demands. And it'd caused problems for all of us who work in the suite, especially around things like confidentiality. It's so frustrating. We got a new boss about 6 months ago - I'll be interested to see if anything changes as we go through our yearly review process here soon. It's unlikely, but I refuse to give up complete hope!
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Jul 15, 2019 11:22:11 GMT -5
Sharon- I am sorry. A bad co-worker sucks. If you do bring up to your boss on the days That you offered training (and I would), I would leave out the reasons she refused. I would just bring up she refused. I like to do things in person so I would ask your boss to sit down and and talk in person, and then follow up with an email just recapping what was said. It really depends on your relationship with your boss, and the work cultural.
All said I would also be looking for a new job.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 15, 2019 13:20:43 GMT -5
Is it accurate to say that she does the work 1 day a week, but isn't ever interested in sitting with you when you see an issue come up that you think you should both be versed in? If so, what happens when she runs anydoc and runs into an issue? If it's brand new and she hasn't run reports to know if she has issues on them, I wouldn't offer help (but would help if she came to me for assistance).
It's obviously a long term issue, your boss knows about it on some level. First and foremost, you're not going to change the underlying issue which is super frustrating, but better to just accept it. I'm guessing it's unlikely that you can actually just not ever interact with her. But you mentioned a couple times about documenting everything, but it sounds like you haven't addressed these issues for at least 3 months with the boss. If you're documenting items just to pull them out if she throws you under the bus...I don't know...I just don't think it's going to do you much good. Then you also become labeled as not a team player.
How often do you meet with your boss? I'd bring up something like this in person as part of a 1 on 1.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 15, 2019 20:24:22 GMT -5
Is it accurate to say that she does the work 1 day a week, but isn't ever interested in sitting with you when you see an issue come up that you think you should both be versed in? If so, what happens when she runs anydoc and runs into an issue? If it's brand new and she hasn't run reports to know if she has issues on them, I wouldn't offer help (but would help if she came to me for assistance). It's obviously a long term issue, your boss knows about it on some level. First and foremost, you're not going to change the underlying issue which is super frustrating, but better to just accept it. I'm guessing it's unlikely that you can actually just not ever interact with her. But you mentioned a couple times about documenting everything, but it sounds like you haven't addressed these issues for at least 3 months with the boss. If you're documenting items just to pull them out if she throws you under the bus...I don't know...I just don't think it's going to do you much good. Then you also become labeled as not a team player. How often do you meet with your boss? I'd bring up something like this in person as part of a 1 on 1. We have had discussions multiple times in our weekly 1:1. I am sick to death tired of talking about her. Boss doesn't like to deal with employee problems and tends to stick his head in the sand. I sent the e-mail today and his reply was that we have a failure to communicate and she has no problem waiting until after her PTO. This was after she marched into his office the moment he arrived and shut the door. Basically it boils down to boss doesn't want to hear about issues and would prefer that I just give into whatever she wants. After everything today I came the closest I have ever to just walking out the door. I am just done. I am strung out, wrung out and up to my eyeballs in a very important project that if I don't get my part done by the end of the month it will delay two huge system wide projects. I have been told that I have no higher priorities than this project yet I am also supposed to train dumbo brain who I trained for over 3 months around the end of the year and who has refused all other training since then. But now has decided that she wants to "learn and grow". I think that she is pissed that I am getting attention from managers system wide for the work I have done on this project. Over the last two days I solved two show stoppers and today found another issue that no one else had caught and is a potential show stopper.
My training on the Anydoc process was 10 minutes with the girl who was currently doing it. Our training was interrupted by her boss and she quit/or was fired/disappeared that morning. We never saw her again. After that it was jump into the middle of the ocean and figure it out.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 15, 2019 22:27:00 GMT -5
Sharon, I absolutely agree with what mary2029 said. I'm glad you took her advice. Keep documenting; keep ignoring crazy co-worker's antics. Good luck.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 15, 2019 22:52:40 GMT -5
It feels good to unload and vent. I have been bottling most of this up for the past year or so. Mom and DD get to hear my C stories sometimes but mostly I just keep taking it. I have tried very hard to take the high road and act professional at work. Some days though I have resorted to writing on a sticky pad, this isn't junior high several times before throwing it away. My over all personality is on the quiet side and I try and avoid confrontation.
Here is another good one. We were training on Anydoc and I was sitting at her desk observing. She started to make a serious mistake and I said oh no you need to put the file in this folder if you put it in that folder it will be double updated. It can only go in that folder if the name is in this certain format. Then I told her ask me how I know this, I did that same thing. Remember the file that was double updated last August. That is how I learned this. My next 1:1 meeting with the boss I got in trouble for embarrassing her. The other people sitting around could hear that she made a mistake and she was quite mortified about it. She wanted me to walk back to my desk and send her an e-mail. Mostly she likes people to jump through hoops. I so wish I could ignore her and we had a good run of a couple of months where we only spoke to each other if necessary until she decided that she needs to "learn and grow". I suspect that came about because she just got a new title. She got a bump from a I to a II. She kept telling the boss she needed more money and she isn't making enough money and if I don't get a raise I'm going to quit. She would say that kind of crap in meetings so I can only image what she was telling him in her 1:1. Knowing the boss he told her he would give her the title but she needed to start learning more and expanding her knowledge. It has been cathartic to document everything in my little book I carry in my purse, kind of write it down and let it go. It feels good to vent and let it all out here too.
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Jul 16, 2019 0:12:31 GMT -5
I am so sorry, Sharon. Working with people that do not have the same work ethic that you do sucks. Keep venting here.
One phrase that is going around my office (where everyone is overstressed) right now is: "We cannot all that happens to us, but we have absolute control over how we respond to the changes in our lives. " —Christopher Waddell
Instead of talking about your co-worker in your 1:1s, have you told your supervisor that you are strung out? Do you talk about the distractions that are affecting the upcoming deadlines? For example, you spent 3 hours training someone instead of being able to do X, Y, and Z. Or, maybe you could set up a timeline of what needs to be done by when to meet the deadlines and go over this with your boss. Maybe he will see that you don't have time to spend training someone.
As for training, do you think that you need to spend that much time with C on this? Has your boss said that you need to train her or that she needs to spend time doing it to keep up her certification? Just because you feel that she needs training, doesn't mean that you have to do it to the level of effort that you would have appreciated. If you learned in 10 minutes, give C only 10 minutes and have her come to you with other questions.
Good luck with whatever you plan on doing.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 22, 2019 7:28:49 GMT -5
welp - sent the email that I was getting communication from the bookstore and asked if staffing decisions had been made. response was just "thx for letting me know." so - I guess I'm going to infer that it is not me! Relieved and disappointed! guess I will need to keep clipping coupons and limping along until I get a few of these debts paid off!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 22, 2019 8:56:39 GMT -5
Sorry Rukh!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 23, 2019 9:25:30 GMT -5
I've just about made it through the second payroll. I've had to do 2 completely on my own with little training beforehand. Regular payroll lady is out of the country for 3.5 weeks. The IT lady who could have helped me was out of the country for the first 2+. Plus, the billing lady I cover for was off camping all last week. Not thoroughly trained on that job, either. I got crap because I didn't know an answer to a question after learning these 2 jobs over the course of 3 months, working about 55% of the time since I'm part-time usually.
It got me looking again, needless to say. My supervisor is super nice, but I barely even see her. She's very hands off/busy with other stuff, and I don't think she knows all that much about either job.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 23, 2019 9:49:46 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke - I would expect this person to come in with a title equivalent (or better) to yours (and probably higher pay than you). Almost certainly they found someone they wanted to pay that much to, who wanted that title, and their company rules won't let someone report to a person who has the same(or lower) title. I don't think this is about you so much as about the candidate that was found. Still, I suggest asking for a meeting with your boss. Just let her know you are looking for clarification. You understood what this person's roles and responsibilities were going to be, and how they were going to fit into the organization when that person was going to report to you. But now they are going to be your peer, so you would like to know what the updated roles and responsibilities are going to be, and how you and your team are expected to interact with this person. And let that answer help guide you in your decision about doing a full on job search.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 23, 2019 10:21:45 GMT -5
Okay, this is going to be a kind of petty post. I am putting it here because it is not something I can say in the office. We are currently hiring for a new program coordinator for our Academic Services department. (I am not in the hiring loop at all.) I predict that in less than 2 years, very likely even in 1 year, we will once again be hiring for a new program coordinator for our Academic Services department.
Now, this is an entry level position. I expect we should be hiring for it every 3 years or so. The position was empty when I started in my role, not quite 5 years ago. I was responsible for hiring someone into that role (and then shortly thereafter led the search that brought in the Academic Services Director). The person I hired into the role was a former student employee of the department. He was young, smart, and figuring out what he wanted to do. We knew he wasn't going to stay in the role for more than a couple years, but while he was in the position, he took it seriously, did everything he was asked, and looked for more. Everyone enjoyed working with him and knew they could count on him to do what he was asked/said he would do. He then left us to go to law school. So the Academic Services Director was in charge of hiring the next PC (because it's her staff). We had talked about this being an entry level position, and what she thought she was looking for. Well, then she got excited by all the current PCs (it's a union job title) who were already at the University who were applying for the role because it was a change of pace. The person she hired was already at the top of the PC pay grades. He had been at the University in this exact role for years. And he was completing his Masters degree from our Information School. He was not an entry level candidate, but that was okay, because she wasn't going to have to train an actual entry level person. This went very badly. We had a ton of disciplinary issues. He would do only what he wanted to do. He used work hours to do homework. (Fine for our student employees when they have nothing else to do, not fine for our actual staff, who are simply choosing not to do work they don't want to do.) And, given how long he had been at the University, he felt he should have all the protections of being a union staff (which he was), but should also be treated as if he were a professional staff, because that's what the rest of the Academic Services department is. And while we do our best not to be hierarchical in that sense, the rules and regulations governing the work of professional staff and union staff are different, and we as the department can get in trouble if we ignore that. The rest of the Academic Services staff stopped asking him to do things, and just started doing it on their own. What we mostly heard from faculty was that they could never find him when they had a question for him. He left this spring. He decided to move to the east coast. We were all very happy for him (and us). So the Academic Services Director and I sit down to talk about hiring for the position again. She tells me she has learned her lesson. She wants to hire someone who is actually entry level, someone who is, perhaps, interested in making academic advising their career. (This is the path our current Undergraduate Adviser took. He was a PC in another Academic Advising unit, and took the time to learn and then move into a junior advising role, and then into a more senior advising role.) This sounds like a great plan. We are a small department that cannot offer a ton of growth within our unit, but getting someone good, training them up, and then helping them move to a larger unit creates goodwill and good relationships throughout the college and University. And the amount of time they would need to stay in this job to be ready to move up is about 3-4 years.Great. During the application period, I get an email from someone I tangentially know, letting me know he applied for the position, and asking if I have any advice for him. We have a brief email conversation, and he seems to be exactly the kind of candidate the ASD told me she wanted. So I specifically mention him to her.
Update: She came by to tell me that she would not be contacting that person for an interview. Why? Because there are so many (over) qualified people who applied. People with a ton of experience in academic services have applied just because they want to work for the University. It would be silly for her to interview an actual entry level candidate, given the qualifications of the applicants she's getting. Let me repeat, this is an ENTRY LEVEL job.
So once again, because she does not really understand what having an entry level job means, she is going to hire someone who is way overqualified for the position. They are almost certainly just looking to get their foot in the door with the University so that they can then apply to University Employee only positions (which a lot of the higher level academic advising positions are). She is doing interviews now. I have no idea who any of the people are. But here I am, hoping we get lucky enough to have someone who at least plans to be in the department a year. Because this really is an entry level position, and people with a lot of experience in Academic Services are likely going to end up with the exact same behavior problems we had with the last PC, because they won't want to understand that as union staff, they have different rules and regulations than the professional staff. And they aren't going to want to do the entry level work for long.
So yeah, my prediction is, if we are lucky, the person will be in our position for 1 year before they start looking for a new role. And if we're unlucky, they'll start looking within a couple of months. Or maybe that will be the lucky option, because I don't want to spend as much time dealing with college and university HR for behavior problems as we did for this last person.
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TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,148
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 23, 2019 10:40:21 GMT -5
No, it isn't a petty post because people who are over qualified for an entry level position will move on to bigger and better things ASAP.
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Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,030
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 23, 2019 11:48:06 GMT -5
Okay, this is going to be a kind of petty post. I am putting it here because it is not something I can say in the office. We are currently hiring for a new program coordinator for our Academic Services department. (I am not in the hiring loop at all.) I predict that in less than 2 years, very likely even in 1 year, we will once again be hiring for a new program coordinator for our Academic Services department.
Now, this is an entry level position. I expect we should be hiring for it every 3 years or so. The position was empty when I started in my role, not quite 5 years ago. I was responsible for hiring someone into that role (and then shortly thereafter led the search that brought in the Academic Services Director). The person I hired into the role was a former student employee of the department. He was young, smart, and figuring out what he wanted to do. We knew he wasn't going to stay in the role for more than a couple years, but while he was in the position, he took it seriously, did everything he was asked, and looked for more. Everyone enjoyed working with him and knew they could count on him to do what he was asked/said he would do. He then left us to go to law school. So the Academic Services Director was in charge of hiring the next PC (because it's her staff). We had talked about this being an entry level position, and what she thought she was looking for. Well, then she got excited by all the current PCs (it's a union job title) who were already at the University who were applying for the role because it was a change of pace. The person she hired was already at the top of the PC pay grades. He had been at the University in this exact role for years. And he was completing his Masters degree from our Information School. He was not an entry level candidate, but that was okay, because she wasn't going to have to train an actual entry level person. This went very badly. We had a ton of disciplinary issues. He would do only what he wanted to do. He used work hours to do homework. (Fine for our student employees when they have nothing else to do, not fine for our actual staff, who are simply choosing not to do work they don't want to do.) And, given how long he had been at the University, he felt he should have all the protections of being a union staff (which he was), but should also be treated as if he were a professional staff, because that's what the rest of the Academic Services department is. And while we do our best not to be hierarchical in that sense, the rules and regulations governing the work of professional staff and union staff are different, and we as the department can get in trouble if we ignore that. The rest of the Academic Services staff stopped asking him to do things, and just started doing it on their own. What we mostly heard from faculty was that they could never find him when they had a question for him. He left this spring. He decided to move to the east coast. We were all very happy for him (and us). So the Academic Services Director and I sit down to talk about hiring for the position again. She tells me she has learned her lesson. She wants to hire someone who is actually entry level, someone who is, perhaps, interested in making academic advising their career. (This is the path our current Undergraduate Adviser took. He was a PC in another Academic Advising unit, and took the time to learn and then move into a junior advising role, and then into a more senior advising role.) This sounds like a great plan. We are a small department that cannot offer a ton of growth within our unit, but getting someone good, training them up, and then helping them move to a larger unit creates goodwill and good relationships throughout the college and University. And the amount of time they would need to stay in this job to be ready to move up is about 3-4 years.Great. During the application period, I get an email from someone I tangentially know, letting me know he applied for the position, and asking if I have any advice for him. We have a brief email conversation, and he seems to be exactly the kind of candidate the ASD told me she wanted. So I specifically mention him to her.
Update: She came by to tell me that she would not be contacting that person for an interview. Why? Because there are so many (over) qualified people who applied. People with a ton of experience in academic services have applied just because they want to work for the University. It would be silly for her to interview an actual entry level candidate, given the qualifications of the applicants she's getting. Let me repeat, this is an ENTRY LEVEL job.
So once again, because she does not really understand what having an entry level job means, she is going to hire someone who is way overqualified for the position. They are almost certainly just looking to get their foot in the door with the University so that they can then apply to University Employee only positions (which a lot of the higher level academic advising positions are). She is doing interviews now. I have no idea who any of the people are. But here I am, hoping we get lucky enough to have someone who at least plans to be in the department a year. Because this really is an entry level position, and people with a lot of experience in Academic Services are likely going to end up with the exact same behavior problems we had with the last PC, because they won't want to understand that as union staff, they have different rules and regulations than the professional staff. And they aren't going to want to do the entry level work for long.
So yeah, my prediction is, if we are lucky, the person will be in our position for 1 year before they start looking for a new role. And if we're unlucky, they'll start looking within a couple of months. Or maybe that will be the lucky option, because I don't want to spend as much time dealing with college and university HR for behavior problems as we did for this last person. Oof! Ya, sounds like another mismatch coming up.
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finnime
Junior Associate
Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 7:14:35 GMT -5
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Post by finnime on Jul 23, 2019 17:01:21 GMT -5
Ouch. Sorry, Rukh O'Rorke. IME it never goes well once a boss feels the need to compete with his/her team members.
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shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 23, 2019 17:09:42 GMT -5
Rukh O'Rorke - Then yeah, it's time to start serious job hunting.
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Works4me
Senior Member
Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
Joined: May 5, 2012 12:11:37 GMT -5
Posts: 2,522
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Post by Works4me on Jul 23, 2019 21:10:39 GMT -5
This does not bode well for your future there.
What is your boss's title?
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