Confederate Battle Flag.

[zibazinski]

Not many people in the south could even afford slaves.

[dondub]

That changed everything didn't it.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2016 0:02:29 GMT -5 mroped said:

That flag is not in any way, form or shape a symbol of racism. It is however part of American History and integral part of the southern heritage.
Yes, there are those that go nuts and do stupid, idiotic things while wrapping themselves in the flag but that doesn't mean that all those that display the confederate flag are racists, bigots and are still clinging on the idea of an independent south.

That would be what some "righteous" people would have us believe.
For most is just a simple "I'm proud that I'm from the south!" or "I do believe in states rights!" Take your pick!

Couldn't of said it better myself !  

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2016 8:27:39 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 17, 2016 0:37:22 GMT -5 fishy999 said:

BTW family, heritage, history means jack shit- unless you defend your relatives for owning slaves- that's the problem with the south in general- they think they were right and the slaves had a good life- I have heard this bullshit time and time again.  But you are a southerner- I expect as much from you.

You mean like the first twelve Presidents having owned or used slaves is A southern thing??  I must have missed something here.

OC, your killing me here. 

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2016 15:27:55 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 17, 2016 15:24:42 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Take your pick then is all I know to tell you. The confederacy had very little if anything to do with racism. You can believe whatever you want. You can get mad and stomp your feet all you want. You can believe what you want as hard as you want, but it doesn't make it true.

If racism were to come to an end, folks like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have no means of making a living. Those and folks like them keep this shit stirred up.

The Confederacy was all about protecting the "right" to own slaves. No amount of your denying it changes that fact. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have nothing to do with my views. It is people like yourself that keep insisting on indulging behaviours that are ignorant towards others that keep this shit stirred up.

At that time, weren't the Democrats for slavery and the Republicans against ?  Just a story I've heard.

[wyouser]

Hmmm, those were warmongering Democrats who ordered their boys to open fire on Ft. Sumter? States Rights Democrats and Big government Republicans back then? My My. All this discussion about a Confederate Battle Flag. Anybody take note that today, January 19, 2016 is Confederate Heroes Day in Texas? Today is also Robert E. Lee Day in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 1:37:44 GMT -5 dondub said:

I believe that was said in jest, in it's most recent posting.

I did not say this in jest, Richard.

Both would be expressions of someone exercising their 1st amendment rights. Some Americans have difficulty with that. But thanks for this: The Confederate flag is a racist symbol

I was referring to the post BEFORE YOURS... that you were thanking for the line.

The Confederate flag is not a racist symbol.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 10:02:17 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jan 18, 2016 20:07:17 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

You can say "slavery was the primary reason" all you want to. It won't make it any truer than me saying "The moon is made of Limburger cheese" makes the moon be made out of smelly cheese.

Slavery was not the primary cause of the secession. There was no "primary" reason. There was a host of reasons among which slavery was one.

And you can say slavery was not the primary cause of the secession if you want, which also matters as much as saying the moon is made of limburger cheese.

All the 'causes' you point to come back to slavery. States rights, for instance, come back to the fact that the Southern States wanted to continue to allow slavery in their own states and didn't want the federal government dictating whether they could have slavery or not.

Wave your magic wand and remove slavery from the Southern states - would they still want to separate themselves from the union due to States rights? What right did they want to keep that the rest of the Union didn't want them to continue to have, other than the right to keep slaves?

Any reason you give leads right back to the ability to keep slaves. It's the root of the whole conflict. Pretending the Southern Cause was some romantic, Quixotic, Gone with the Wind type fantasy doesn't make it true.   

Only if you ignore the ones that don't.

[dondub]

The Confederate flag is not a racist symbol.

Maybe not to you and other Mason~Dixonites but to a large amount of Americans it surely is whether you like it or not.

[mroped]

Jan 19, 2016 18:49:06 GMT -5 dondub said:

The Confederate flag is not a racist symbol.

Maybe not to you and other Mason~Dixonites but to a large amount of Americans it surely is whether you like it or not.

I regret to inform you then that "a large amount of Americans" is very uninformed or biased.
I agree with all human rights movements and so on but there is a point that we have to make sense when claiming something and back our claim with something else beside sporadic cases of individuals going off the rocker.
There are what 20-30-50 cases in which people used the Battle Flag to express their racism or claim race superiority?
There are many millions of Americans living in the south that see the same flag just as part of history. I am counting those in the North either!


NB: similar case with "all Muslims are terrorists"

[Deleted]

they shouldn't pretend it only stands for some glorious Southern Cause. It began as a Virginia battle flag to protect slavery... it was co-opted by racial hatred groups like the KKK and skin heads as racist symbol. It's unfortunate that it got sullied with that association, but it did, and when you fly it, you need to be are well aware that other people will make that association

That's the point right there. The fact that you can be here arguing that "it doesn't mean what you think it means" shows that you know exactly what people think it means when they see it and you don't care if you are identified as a racist. You make the choice you accept the consequences. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. When you display a racist symbol you are identified as a racist.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 18:49:06 GMT -5 dondub said:

The Confederate flag is not a racist symbol.

Maybe not to you and other Mason~Dixonites but to a large amount of Americans it surely is whether you like it or not.

They would be what fact checkers like to call "wrong".

I don't agree with a "large amount" of any group just because there is a "large amount" of them... They have to also be right. In this case the "large amount" is not right.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 20:41:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

they shouldn't pretend it only stands for some glorious Southern Cause. It began as a Virginia battle flag to protect slavery... it was co-opted by racial hatred groups like the KKK and skin heads as racist symbol. It's unfortunate that it got sullied with that association, but it did, and when you fly it, you need to be are well aware that other people will make that association

That's the point right there. The fact that you can be here arguing that "it doesn't mean what you think it means" shows that you know exactly what people think it means when they see it and you don't care if you are identified as a racist. You make the choice you accept the consequences. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. When you display a racist symbol you are identified as a racist.

I agree with that 100%.

Unfortunately for your argument, the Confederate Flag isn't a racist symbol.

[dondub]

In this case the "large amount" is not right.

According to you, Richard. But to many others, with opinions just as valid as you think yours is, the Confederate Flag represents racism. You'll just have to deal with that difference of opinion.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 21:05:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

In this case the "large amount" is not right.

According to you, Richard. But to many others, with opinions just as valid as you think yours is, the Confederate Flag represents racism. You'll just have to deal with that difference of opinion.

He knows it is a racist symbol and he is a racist that loves displaying it but playing innocent because he knows people can't stop him. What he has to live with is that he can't throw that in people's faces and make them say it's okay and he isn't a racist.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 21:05:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

In this case the "large amount" is not right.

According to you, Richard. But to many others, with opinions just as valid as you think yours is, the Confederate Flag represents racism. You'll just have to deal with that difference of opinion.

Nope. Not "according to [me]". According to historical fact.

According to historical fact: The "Confederate Flag" is the Battle Flag for the Army of Northern Virginia.
According to historical fact: Racism was not a factor in the Civil War.

The fact that racists have used it improperly doesn't change what it stands/stood for.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 21:31:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 19, 2016 21:05:40 GMT -5 dondub said:

In this case the "large amount" is not right.

According to you, Richard. But to many others, with opinions just as valid as you think yours is, the Confederate Flag represents racism. You'll just have to deal with that difference of opinion.

He knows it is a racist symbol and he is a racist that loves displaying it but playing innocent because he knows people can't stop him. What he has to live with is that he can't throw that in people's faces and make them say it's okay and he isn't a racist.

"He" (meaning me) knows no such thing.

I know the truth of it's actual, full, history (not just the pictures of the abuse of the symbol at KKK rallies or by other racists... which is what it appears you limit your "facts" to). Something that proves it's not racist.

I'm also very much NOT a racist. I'm an egalitarian. Do you know what that means? It means "someone that supports equality for all"... no racist can ever be an egalitarian because all the racists feel superior to other races and it's a logical impossibility to be superior and equal at the same time.


ETA: If I'm such a racist, why wasn't I on the "let's lynch Cosby" bandwagon? Why did I advocate the "innocent until proven guilty" stance for him?

[mmhmm]

Okay, that's enough. There will be no more name-calling. If it continues, the thread will be locked. laterbloomer, it's not acceptable to call someone a racist and you know that very well. Enough!

mmhmm, Administrator

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Okay, that's enough. There will be no more name-calling. If it continues, the thread will be locked. laterbloomer , it's not acceptable to call someone a racist and you know that very well. Enough!

mmhmm, Administrator

It's tough when someone indulges in racist behaviour and rhetoric to have to read it and not be allowed to name it.

[Deleted]

Jan 19, 2016 22:37:58 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 19, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Okay, that's enough. There will be no more name-calling. If it continues, the thread will be locked. laterbloomer , it's not acceptable to call someone a racist and you know that very well. Enough!

mmhmm, Administrator

It's tough when someone indulges in racist behaviour and rhetoric to have to read it and not be allowed to name it.

Fortunately for you, no one here is doing that.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Jan 19, 2016 16:01:30 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Jan 17, 2016 15:27:55 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

The Confederacy was all about protecting the "right" to own slaves. No amount of your denying it changes that fact. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have nothing to do with my views. It is people like yourself that keep insisting on indulging behaviours that are ignorant towards others that keep this shit stirred up.

At that time, weren't the Democrats for slavery and the Republicans against ?  Just a story I've heard.

Yes, that story fits in with, dem's point nicley. I have been to the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum in, Springfield Il... Something about the North having their arses handed to them and Lincoln changing commanders and finding new recruits in around 1863 comes to mind...

[dondub]

The fact that racists have used it improperly doesn't change what it stands/stood for.

Richard....I see that you are finally coming around and starting to get it. To you it's not a racist symbol. To racists it can be a racist symbol. To observers of that
it can be seen as a racist symbol because that's what racists use it for. Congrats! My work is done here.

[zibazinski]

Jan 19, 2016 22:37:58 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 19, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Okay, that's enough. There will be no more name-calling. If it continues, the thread will be locked. laterbloomer , it's not acceptable to call someone a racist and you know that very well. Enough!

mmhmm, Administrator

It's tough when someone indulges in racist behaviour and rhetoric to have to read it and not be allowed to name it.

There's an ignore feature.

[mmhmm]

Jan 19, 2016 22:37:58 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Jan 19, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Okay, that's enough. There will be no more name-calling. If it continues, the thread will be locked. laterbloomer , it's not acceptable to call someone a racist and you know that very well. Enough!

mmhmm, Administrator

It's tough when someone indulges in racist behaviour and rhetoric to have to read it and not be allowed to name it.

I know it is, later. I bite my tongue quite often to keep from saying things I'd sorta like to say but aren't acceptable here. I can either skip over that which offends me, I can put that poster on Ignore, or ... I can disagree with them in a civil manner. Those are my choices, as those are the rules here on YMAM. No name-calling and no personal insults.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2016 8:11:16 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jan 19, 2016 22:37:58 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

It's tough when someone indulges in racist behaviour and rhetoric to have to read it and not be allowed to name it.

I know it is, later. I bite my tongue quite often to keep from saying things I'd sorta like to say but aren't acceptable here. I can either skip over that which offends me, I can put that poster on Ignore, or ... I can disagree with them in a civil manner. Those are my choices, as those are the rules here on YMAM. No name-calling and no personal insults.

mmhmm, Administrator

Shouldn't there be some kind of mechanism to moderate the people indulging in the behaviour other than suck it up and let them carry on?

[Deleted]

I can either skip over that which offends me, I can put that poster on Ignore,

Why aren't they told to do that with me?

[zibazinski]

Because they enjoy your arguing. Why, I don't know, but they do. I find arguing to be incredibly stressful. 

[mmhmm]

Jan 20, 2016 9:02:57 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I can either skip over that which offends me, I can put that poster on Ignore,

Why aren't they told to do that with me?

Often, they may have been. It depends on who "they" is meant to define. Frankly, nobody should have to be told this, Later. It's common sense. If someone gets on your last nerve, avoid that someone. I gave you the choices we have. Which one you choose is certainly up to you.

[mmhmm]

Jan 20, 2016 9:09:49 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Because they enjoy your arguing. Why, I don't know, but they do. I find arguing to be incredibly stressful. 

I don't mind a good, civil debate. I don't like board battles. I don't enjoy a fight to verbal death. Those bore me to tears. They result in two (or a few) people taking over the ongoing discussion to fight out their differences with insults. Gets old fast!

[zibazinski]

They don't bore me, they upset me. So after awhile I just leave the post which is also an option.