Don't Let Principals Censor the Internet

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2015 21:08:14 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

Employees are paid by the employer... students are NOT paid by the school (and in the case of private schools or adult education {college/university} they {or someone on their behalf} actually pay the school).

Dec 26, 2015 21:13:01 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

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That's actually a good analogy. Don't think of students as "employees"... think of them as "customers"

With public schools, the person paying for the service is the general public. Doesn't that make us the customers?

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 22:00:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 26, 2015 21:08:14 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

Employees are paid by the employer... students are NOT paid by the school (and in the case of private schools or adult education {college/university} they {or someone on their behalf} actually pay the school).

Dec 26, 2015 21:13:01 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

That's actually a good analogy. Don't think of students as "employees"... think of them as "customers"

With public schools, the person paying for the service is the general public. Doesn't that make us the customers?

Not really. It makes us the financiers. The students are the "customers" because they "receive the goods or service provided by the company" (they receive the education).

Back to the Starbuck's analogy: Let's say you have money burning a hole in your pocket (you are wealthy beyond the dreams of mortal men... or you won the lottery... whatever) and you pay a particular Starbuck's location for all the coffee they are going to serve for the next 7 days. The individuals getting their "free" coffee are still the "customers" of Starbuck's... the only difference is someone else is ponying up the money for their espressos and macchiatos and lattes.

[Shooby]

Dec 26, 2015 22:00:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 26, 2015 21:08:14 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

Employees are paid by the employer... students are NOT paid by the school (and in the case of private schools or adult education {college/university} they {or someone on their behalf} actually pay the school).

Dec 26, 2015 21:13:01 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

That's actually a good analogy. Don't think of students as "employees"... think of them as "customers"

With public schools, the person paying for the service is the general public. Doesn't that make us the customers?

So Starbucks should be monitoring the Facebook posts and instagrams of customers?

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Dec 26, 2015 22:00:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

With public schools, the person paying for the service is the general public. Doesn't that make us the customers?

Not really. It makes us the financiers. The students are the "customers" because they "receive the goods or service provided by the company" (they receive the education).

....

Or is the product educated citizens?

[Deleted]

The idea that the customer is the student, coupled with the idea that the customer is never wrong... Is where so many issues arise these days...

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

Back to the Starbuck's analogy: Let's say you have money burning a hole in your pocket (you are wealthy beyond the dreams of mortal men... or you won the lottery... whatever) and you pay a particular Starbuck's location for all the coffee they are going to serve for the next 7 days. The individuals getting their "free" coffee are still the "customers" of Starbuck's... the only difference is someone else is ponying up the money for their espressos and macchiatos and lattes.

If one of these "customers" is dissatisfied, do they get their money back?

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 22:56:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 26, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Not really. It makes us the financiers. The students are the "customers" because they "receive the goods or service provided by the company" (they receive the education).

....

Or is the product educated citizens?

If you want to look at it that way... I suppose a reasonable argument could be made for it... but that only makes "us" customers TOO.

The student's product that they receive is an education.
The financiers product that they receive is an educated populace.

Both are still receiving "product" from the school.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 23:04:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 26, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...

Back to the Starbuck's analogy: Let's say you have money burning a hole in your pocket (you are wealthy beyond the dreams of mortal men... or you won the lottery... whatever) and you pay a particular Starbuck's location for all the coffee they are going to serve for the next 7 days. The individuals getting their "free" coffee are still the "customers" of Starbuck's... the only difference is someone else is ponying up the money for their espressos and macchiatos and lattes.

If one of these "customers" is dissatisfied, do they get their money back?

No (unfortunately). "As-Is" sales are a legitimate business practice.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 23:00:03 GMT -5 oped said:

The idea that the customer is the student, coupled with the idea that the customer is never wrong... Is where so many issues arise these days...

There's a difference though. The student actually IS a customer.

However the customer is NOT "never wrong".

[Deleted]

You talk about 'receiving an education' as if it were a passive process. As if the student goes in to the store and purchases an education and they are 'educated'... As if there were no responsibility or action required on behalf of the student. As if providing the foundations of being an informed and responsible citizen were a process akin to the Wizard of Oz issuing diplomas. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 26, 2015 23:14:13 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Dec 26, 2015 22:56:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Or is the product educated citizens?

If you want to look at it that way... I suppose a reasonable argument could be made for it... but that only makes "us" customers TOO.

The student's product that they receive is an education.
The financiers product that they receive is an educated populace.

Both are still receiving "product" from the school.

Which creates the conflict we have here:

The result, which Bell posted on Facebook and YouTube in January 2011, is either an "incredibly profane and vulgar rap recording" that was "reasonably understood by school officials to be threatening, harassing, and intimidating" (as Barksdale saw it) or "a darkly sardonic but impassioned protest of two teachers' alleged sexual misconduct" (as dissenting Judge James Dennis put it). (From the link in the OP)

[Deleted]

Lol. Most of the lit on 'students as customers' is based on higher ed, but I loved the sentiment in this slate article... Basically, if students were customers, 'Every class should be five minutes long, taught by holograms of Rihanna, and consist of self-graded multiple-choice tests composed in emoji.' 

www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2015/05/college_students_are_not_customers_a_political_shorthand_that_needs_to_die.html

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 23:24:26 GMT -5 oped said:

You talk about 'receiving an education' as if it were a passive process. As if the student goes in to the store and purchases an education and they are 'educated'... As if there were no responsibility or action required on behalf of the student. As if providing the foundations of being an informed and responsible citizen were a process akin to the Wizard of Oz issuing diplomas. 

No I don't. I talk of it as "what do they get?" I don't go into the "how do they get it" part.

Is a customer at a gym any less of a customer because he/she puts in effort during his/her workout? No. That person is STILL a customer... just as a student is.

[Deleted]

Whether the gym goer does the work or not, the gym gets paid. And if the gym goer doesn't follow the rules of the gym, or I'm guessing disrespects the owner, he can be ejected...

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2015 23:55:07 GMT -5 oped said:

Whether the gym goer does the work or not, the gym gets paid. And if the gym goer doesn't follow the rules of the gym, or I'm guessing disrespects the owner, he can be ejected...

If he does it AT the gym....

[NoNamePerson]

When does a principal have the time to monitor hundreds of students during school hours

I have a picture of pervert sitting at home at night in a dark room with nothing but monitor light trolling student's FB   Maybe schools should hire a FB readers in the future. Good pay and benefits 

[Deleted]

I'm guessing it was all over the school in about an hour, and brought to his attention within a day.