My son's job hunt

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 23, 2015 0:53:04 GMT -5 gacpa said:

They never said if they had any internships. But my thought if the STEM degrees that they were receiving, the programs that they were in should have made that mandatory, but what do I know.

  My son did mention to me that one day the internships will become mandatory to receive the degree.  I am all for it, at least you will know up front what path you need to follow.  I really blew it on this one.

Honestly, it sounds like your son blew it.  Sorry, gacpa....this is his career and HE needs to be the one taking responsibility, not you.  He saw what his classmates were doing and failed.  I am positive he has been shown many, many ways of getting his foot in the foot and didn't take the initiative.

Last year, TD and I had dinner with a local engineering club out of UW.  I sat at a table and chatted to the students.....freshmen through seniors.  Every single one of them were scrambling for internships for EVERY summerand those that were not were doing research for their professors and presenting at this meeting.  Hell, at the technical school I am going to, there is a club and a myriad of opportunities to meet people from engineering companies....to network.

You didn't fail, you need to stop accepting responsibility for your son's lack of initiative, and place the blame squarely where it lies....on HIS shoulders.  

JMHO

[formerroomate99]

Dec 22, 2015 14:51:29 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

How does the school not push for internships? I don't understand that.

Because schools don't give a rat's behind what happens to the students after graduation.  

They regularly outright lie to students about a program's employment prospects to get as many as possible into the ones that are cheaper to run. 

[formerroomate99]

Dec 23, 2015 2:22:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Dec 23, 2015 0:53:04 GMT -5 gacpa said:

  My son did mention to me that one day the internships will become mandatory to receive the degree.  I am all for it, at least you will know up front what path you need to follow.  I really blew it on this one.

Honestly, it sounds like your son blew it.  Sorry, gacpa....this is his career and HE needs to be the one taking responsibility, not you.  He saw what his classmates were doing and failed.  I am positive he has been shown many, many ways of getting his foot in the foot and didn't take the initiative.

Last year, TD and I had dinner with a local engineering club out of UW.  I sat at a table and chatted to the students.....freshmen through seniors.  Every single one of them were scrambling for internships for EVERY summerand those that were not were doing research for their professors and presenting at this meeting.  Hell, at the technical school I am going to, there is a club and a myriad of opportunities to meet people from engineering companies....to network.

You didn't fail, you need to stop accepting responsibility for your son's lack of initiative, and place the blame squarely where it lies....on HIS shoulders.  

JMHO

I agree.  And with the internet, there is no excuse for this level of ignorance.  He could have researched his field.  

The economy isn't in the tank.  He can get some piddly job and pay his own bills until he gets a real job.  Failing shouldn't be comfortable.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 23, 2015 4:59:12 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Dec 22, 2015 14:51:29 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

How does the school not push for internships? I don't understand that.

Because schools don't give a rat's behind what happens to the students after graduation.  

They regularly outright lie to students about a program's employment prospects to get as many as possible into the ones that are cheaper to run. 

They probably did push, but they can only lead a horse to water, they can't make them drink.  It is the student's responsibility to take the information offered and run with it.

The fact that many of gacpa's son's classmates did get jobs spurred from internships suggests that the students weren't lied to.

I've gotten an opportunity for an internship this year, and I've only got a year of drafting behind me.  You bet your butt I jumped on it, but haven't heard back yet.

[gooddecisions]

What exactly has he been doing since August? Please tell me it's something more productive than staying up all night playing video games and sleeping all day. It's really a good sign that he's getting interviews. That means he is qualified for the position regardless of the lack of internship, or they would toss the resume with the rest that don't meet the qualifications.

Nobody wastes time interviewing people who aren't qualified. I'd look into a little more coaching for the interview process. I wrote it on another post, but if you're in that chair in front of a hiring manager, they want to hire you and be done with filling the req. 

I took a job for $23K/year when I graduated in 2000. It totally sucked, but it was a huge company and got my foot in the door. Every 6-9 months I'd get a promotion or a significant raise. Every once in awhile I question if that was a mistake and I should have held out for a higher paying position. But, in these past 15 years, I've never been unemployed and now make 6 figures, so I guess it worked out taking a low paying, beneath me job. Like Ashton Kutcher said, opportunity looks a lot like work.

Good luck, I hope the wait is worth it!

[tcu2003]

Gacpa, is your some an ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) member? If not, have him join stat - I believe dues are reduced for recent grads. If you're in the Atlanta area, they have a section there that should be about monthly - he should attend their meetings and start networking. You never know who you'll meet that may connect you to a job.

On grad school, if he's interested, it may not be a bad idea, but he shouldn't be paying for it, or at least not much of it. There is a ton of money at universities for engineering masters and PhD students, and most engineers attend for free, and often get stipends, in exchange for being a research assistant or teaching assistant.

[tcu2003]

Also, I'll add that engineers do most of their own drafting at my company. I'm an ME in the building construction consulting industry, and my firm does HVAC, plumbing, fire protection, electrical, regurgitation, specialty lighting, etc. We generally do our own plans with our calcs, though we do have some drafters who do some of the less technical work.


ETA: gacpa, I sent you a PM.

[gacpa]

Thank you for all the ideas and comments.  They are very helpful.  We are trying to move forward with a positive attitude to salvage what we can of this situation.  If a job offer does not pan out for him by this spring, I will suggest going to a technical school and getting drafting certifications and hopefully a part time or internship job.  I am beginning to realize that he may not have done an internship because of lack of self confidence. 

He does enjoy drafting and Mich is spot on about learning various programs so he can move between them as needed and gaining certifications in Solidworks.  I will keep you posted of any changes in his status.  All of his future interviews involve Solidworks. 

[finnime]

Dec 23, 2015 10:07:34 GMT -5 gacpa said:

 I am beginning to realize that he may not have done an internship because of lack of self confidence. 

This makes great sense to me. Without the confidence he likely is not presenting as upbeat and enthusiastic in interviews. Poise is a tough one. You gain it when you have strong experiences that you know are valued, and can carry that knowledge with you. Plus gaining maturity equates to increased self confidence. Wishing the best for your son.

[beergut]

Has your son ever had a w2 job?

[Shooby]

  Gee, it is kind of discouraging to see an economy where Engineers are having a hard time to find jobs!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 27, 2015 19:39:52 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Gee, it is kind of discouraging to see an economy where Engineers are having a hard time to find jobs!

Like many jobs, it is one where you may have to move to get your foot in the door.  

The OP's son has not done himself any favors by pigeonholing himself so severely.  He wants to stay in the area, has no experience, has done no internships, and has experience in a single software package for drafting, and hasn't gone after any of the certifications for that software.

[Shooby]

I feel bad for a lot of these kids. They have so many hoops to jump through. It just wasnt that hard when i graduated.
And what he should have done is moot. What matters is what should he do now.

[Phoenix84]

Dec 22, 2015 14:53:15 GMT -5 gacpa said:

Is he only looking in your area or is he willing to travel anywhere in the USA? I am thinking Texas and CA would have a lot more openings for him.

You are right, saveinla.  I also see lots of jobs in CA and TX.  He says he does not want to go to CA.  And this is after a CA company contacted him after seeing his resume on Monster.com.  They really wanted to talk to him.  My sister lives in TX.  If something does not pop soon for him, he may have to consider these locations more seriously.  His college roommate who majored in computer science, could not find a job in GA either.  He just started a good job at a large company in Phoenix, of all places.  Very happy for him.

Happyhoix, he has done online interviewing and mock interviewing with the university he graduated from and I think it has helped him tremendously.  They also helped him re-work his resume, which has resulted in all these recent phone calls and interviews.  I cannot thank them enough for their assistance.  They surprised me with their dedication to go the extra mile with their graduates.  I guess they have to, competition for students in metro ATL is very fierce I expect.  They have guided him as to how to present himself during an interview.  We are all a bunch of big introverts at my house, and self confidence is definitely an issue with all of us.  He has been reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" also.  I am trying to get him to use this time productively.

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a good book.  I've read it, but perhaps I could do with another reading.

[muttleynfelix]

Dec 28, 2015 11:13:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I feel bad for a lot of these kids. They have so many hoops to jump through. It just wasnt that hard when i graduated.
And what he should have done is moot. What matters is what should he do now.

But engineering has always been like this. My dad (who graduated with a Civil degree in '69) had an internship and it was pushed back then. It was the best way to get some experience. We don't want fresh kids who haven't held a job. Most engineering programs offer limited summer courses because they want you working in the summer. This isn't a new hoop or requirement. Also moving isn't something new, especially for a mechanical engineer. It is something you have to do, even for engineering. Heck, I have 10 years experience as a Civil Engineer and I moved last year for better career advancement.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 28, 2015 20:19:06 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Dec 28, 2015 11:13:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I feel bad for a lot of these kids. They have so many hoops to jump through. It just wasnt that hard when i graduated.
And what he should have done is moot. What matters is what should he do now.

But engineering has always been like this. My dad (who graduated with a Civil degree in '69) had an internship and it was pushed back then. It was the best way to get some experience. We don't want fresh kids who haven't held a job. Most engineering programs offer limited summer courses because they want you working in the summer. This isn't a new hoop or requirement. Also moving isn't something new, especially for a mechanical engineer. It is something you have to do, even for engineering. Heck, I have 10 years experience as a Civil Engineer and I moved last year for better career advancement.

I graduated from college in 1981, not in engineering, but I still did many of these things to get my foot in the door.  Internships are not common in my file, but working in a professor's lab is.  So I volunteered for any project a prof needed help with.  I also moved for my first job, and for subsequent jobs in order to climb the ladder.  Finally, I took registry exams in order to become a registered microbiologist.  Yeah, it is another hoop to jump through, but something employers look at when you are providing a sparse professional CV when you are starting out.

My last 2 years of my undergrad program was a push to get experience which would enhance my CV.  By the time I graduated, I had my registration, spent 2 summers helping profs during the summer, did a specialized course that I had to compete to get into and got a short job (3 month) working during the summer for someone that needed data fast.  

[tcu2003]

Dec 28, 2015 20:19:06 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Dec 28, 2015 11:13:00 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I feel bad for a lot of these kids. They have so many hoops to jump through. It just wasnt that hard when i graduated.
And what he should have done is moot. What matters is what should he do now.

But engineering has always been like this. My dad (who graduated with a Civil degree in '69) had an internship and it was pushed back then. It was the best way to get some experience. We don't want fresh kids who haven't held a job. Most engineering programs offer limited summer courses because they want you working in the summer. This isn't a new hoop or requirement. Also moving isn't something new, especially for a mechanical engineer. It is something you have to do, even for engineering. Heck, I have 10 years experience as a Civil Engineer and I moved last year for better career advancement.

Yep. I was surprised when I learned DH never did an internship, and he was hired by the firm we both now work at to start right out of college (they were much smaller than they are now). That said, he worked full-time to put himself through college, and is one of the sharpest guys I know, so I'm assuming they saw the work ethic and other things in the interview, though our former CEO says DH still holds the record for least amount of words said in an interview. DH says the man exaggerates, but there probably is an element of truth there.

So all that to say that you can get hired without that stuff, but it definitely smooths the way and makes it easier.

[TheOtherMe]

I have a friend who's son majored in engineering.  He did an internship every summer and had his choice of jobs when he graduated.  He's now working for some company that designs racing cars for the grand prix circuit and spends the racing season in Europe. 

Back in the 70's, I worked during school at a job in my field and had no problems getting a job.  I also worked at typical high school jobs from age 16.