Retirement is a myth....

[dannylion]

Nov 12, 2015 13:04:36 GMT -5 Plain Old Petunia said:

Nov 11, 2015 22:17:23 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Yay! I'm a unicorn!

I thought you were a goat. 

I'm like the Egyptian pharaohs, I can be two things at once.

(And according to PoM's picture, I'm a pink donkey.  I have no objections to donkeys on philosophical grounds, but pink is not really my color.)

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2015 13:13:49 GMT -5 Plain Old Petunia said:

Nov 11, 2015 22:31:56 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

I don't disagree.  $1,000,000 in assets would give you $40,000 in today's money.  so you guys/gals who are earning $100,000 today won't be able to live on that.  You won't even be able to live on that plus SS if it is around.  Inflation is going to help you get to that $1,000,000, but it is going to erode its value.

I was talking to my daughter's mil at my newest granddaughter's christening.  She has cut back and is planning to retire next year.  Her husband is already retired.  He works at Publix part-time, though.  She talked about getting a part-time job as well.

It is scary.  

Why wouldn't a 100k earner be able to live on 40k + SS?   That would be 60k - 80k per year (depending on how long they made that 100k, and if it is a couple or a single person).  

100k - 7.65k Fica - 15k (?) saved for retirement = 77.35k.   

60k per year is higher than the median household income in this country.   

I was talking future tense.  That's why I mentioned inflation helping you get to that million and the uncertainty of SS.

Sure, if you are earning $100,000 today and have a $1,000,000 today in an IRA, you'll make it with no problem.    But that's less likely if inflation hits.

[Deleted]

Oh Gawd.  Another "It isn't your fault article". 

[movingforward]

Yes, the "it isn't your fault articles" are really getting annoying.

I do feel for people who have had stagnant wages the last few years.  Costs keep going up while wages stay the same.  Something does feel innately wrong with that scenario.  I have been extremely lucky the last few years in that I have received large raises.  I work for a small company that seems to appreciate my skills.  For the last 5 years I have received decent raises and I just found out last week that I am receiving a 15% raise for 2016 .  This should really help with buying a condo and boosting my taxable account next year.  I feel extremely thankful right now! 

[Deleted]

My goal is more lofty, to live off the 2.5% dividends/interest the total market provides. Gimme 5 mil right now and I'd sit back and let the passive income roll in.

What sucks is we should be to 5 million (inflation adjusted) exactly when DW will be able to retiree from the feds in 20 years. This assumes 4% growth.

[Anne_in_VA]

Not only have wages not risen in the past few years and the actual cost of living has risen, I think it's telling that COLA's have either been non existent or minimal because food, etc. are not counted in the cost of living.  Even I think have sufficient savings, I worry about having a catastrophic illness that will decimate my savings.  I don't think anyon other than the truly wealthy can rid out something like that.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Why not keep working for another year instead?":::...

It's not always your choice to stay at your job for another year.  Dad lost his $200K/year job when the company shut down.  It is... not going to be easy to find another at that age.

[TheHaitian]

Nov 15, 2015 8:58:02 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"Why not keep working for another year instead?":::...

It's not always your choice to stay at your job for another year.  Dad lost his $200K/year job when the company shut down.  It is... not going to be easy to find another at that age.

Tell me about it! My wife aunt lost her job over a year ago (in her 50's) due to company downsizing. She has been unable to find another job since then.

Same for my aunt that lost her job over 6 months ago. Unemployment has run out for both of them.

Saving grace: my aunt husband still has his job and my wife aunt daughter still has hers. Also family!

50's seems to be the age where it can go either way which leaves us 20 years to save/accumulate enough to weather that storm. It is kinda hard because now is the time we are contemplating kids and the next 20-25 years might be the most expensive years yet!

[resolution]

Same thing happened to my friend's parents, although they were not high earners. His dad was let go at age 61 in a merger/reorg. His mom was still working retail and got let go about a year later for not monitoring something in the store properly. He claimed social security at 62 because they had no income in the household and got a part time job. She is in a depression sitting at home all day not looking, she will probably claim social security as well when she hits 62.

[Shooby]

I hear people talk about retirement, as if they have complete control over it.   From my observations, "retirement" just seems to arrive suddenly. Downsizing, changes in one's health, etc seem to be the predominant theme. I rarely see anyone who retires on X date as planned. And, I hear people say " I don't ever plan to retire, then WHAM are laid out with a medical condition". So, I don't make any pronouncements about when I plan to retire. It will come when it comes.  And, it may be that you lose your career and have to go something else. Or work part time or whatever. But, most likely I don't think it will come on your terms. However, you have to be diligent in planning for that rainy day. And, that is the best you can do. I hope I have done that and I hope I have enough. Time will tell.

[CCL]

Nov 11, 2015 23:37:13 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

I retired in 1998 - I'm also part of the myth, lol.

Even John Bogle, founder and former chief executive of The Vanguard Group, says the retirement options offered by financial institutions are fiction — what he called a “train wreck” in his appearance on Frontline.
IRAs and 401(k)s weren’t designed to be retirement plans but savings or thrift plans. And the returns are small: After adjusting for inflation and subtracting taxes and fees, “you’re down into a pretty paltry return, 1 or 2 percent,” according to Frontline, which Bogle confirms. “We don’t tell people that, you see, in this business,” Bogle adds.
But don’t count on a comfortable standard of living if you plan to live off Social Security — the GAO says it provides only about $17,000 a year.

My 401k had nearly a million in it in 1998.  And it's been increasing every year since, almost double now.  Our SS checks are a bit higher than the GAO $17,000 - ie, $22k for one and $18k for the second - $40,000/yr.  Train wreck? Not sure why people like to hate on 401k's? 

Not me. I love the 401k.

[cronewitch]

Nov 15, 2015 11:32:31 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I hear people talk about retirement, as if they have complete control over it.   From my observations, "retirement" just seems to arrive suddenly. Downsizing, changes in one's health, etc seem to be the predominant theme. I rarely see anyone who retires on X date as planned. And, I hear people say " I don't ever plan to retire, then WHAM are laid out with a medical condition". So, I don't make any pronouncements about when I plan to retire. It will come when it comes.  And, it may be that you lose your career and have to go something else. Or work part time or whatever. But, most likely I don't think it will come on your terms. However, you have to be diligent in planning for that rainy day. And, that is the best you can do. I hope I have done that and I hope I have enough. Time will tell.

This was my plan to be ready to retire long before I wanted to retire. Anytime after 50 I had to be ready to live on less for life so I saved and paid down debt. I could have lived on minimum wage if I had to. I lost a good job in 2000 and retired in 2014 having earned less than in 1999 until about 2011. I have seen so many people at 58 or so not every land a career level job again. I got lucky landing a job that lasted from 2002-2014 so I could pick a retirement date but don't count on it.

[bimetalaupt]

Retirement for me was never about money.  I retired at 48 and 63 : when I retired the first time the 10% added tax killed by banking thing"Kash is King". Now I am living better then ever  before on less then 25% of my total income and paying more taxes.  I make more then the president, I am my own boss and work when I want.  I do have my own labs ( yes labs-three of them).  I have always had a gifted future thanks to my wonderful parents and great grandfathers: I do hope to give that back for my son and his wonderful wife. 

Just a thought,
Bruce Duke-Lendrum , MBA, PharmB

[Shooby]

  Even for people who want to work until they die, well, the work place isn't all that welcoming to oldsters. Sorry. I have seen people get pushed out. They get a certain age and nobody wants them around anymore.   They either are then viewed as too slow, too out of touch, even if they are not.  Or, people think they should step aside to give a younger person a chance and so forth.   There are realities to aging in the workplace. Seems like years ago, that was accepted if Joe started to slow down a bit, then that was accepted. But, now, it isn't.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2015 9:21:48 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

From what I have heard except for having a home they paid off most people don't have much saved at all and seem to be mostly okay with that.  All they are looking for in retirement is enough SS to pay for their taxes and utilities and food after medicare is taken out.   A little extra for the occasional fun things would be good but they are not worried about that.

It is the loss of health insurance before they can get medicare that scares the crap out of regular middle class people!!

SS was never meant to be the sole source of retirement income- it was meant to be part of a "3-legged stool" that included personal savings and private pensions. That third leg, of course, is gone for many people, replaced by a match on your 401(k) contributions if you're lucky. And paid-off houses? Yeah, right. There may be a few in this group (and I'm well aware of the fact that many of use have chosen to carry low-interest rate mortgages even though we didn't need to borrow), but what I see around me are people taking out 30-year mortgages, refinanacing a few times and thus re-starting the clock (buy in 2010, take out 30-year mortgage, refi in 2015 and now your mortgage won't be paid off till 2045 instead of 2040), and encumbering their equity with HELOCs.

DH gets $24K of SS per year and he's probably average. He's got modest tastes but I'd guess rental on a decent condo would run about $1,000/year, then there are groceries, car maintenance, occasional car replacement, etc. We're in a LCOL area and there'd be very little left for fun on that budget. I suppose he'd qualify for a few gubmint freebies, though- but then you can't say that he'd be living entirely on SS, Sadly, for many people this is the plan as soon as they hit 62.

[Ombud]

Nov 16, 2015 10:38:04 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

SS was never meant to be the sole source of retirement income- it was meant to be part of a "3-legged stool" that included personal savings and private pensions. That third leg, of course, is gone for many people, replaced by .... paid-off house

Bears repeating with 1 slight modification

[TheHaitian]

Nov 16, 2015 11:48:18 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Nov 16, 2015 1:33:25 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

This was my plan to be ready to retire long before I wanted to retire. Anytime after 50 I had to be ready to live on less for life so I saved and paid down debt. I could have lived on minimum wage if I had to. I lost a good job in 2000 and retired in 2014 having earned less than in 1999 until about 2011. I have seen so many people at 58 or so not every land a career level job again. I got lucky landing a job that lasted from 2002-2014 so I could pick a retirement date but don't count on it.

It's exactly my plan too Crone. I may work past 50, but I've seen too many people get laid off in their 50's and never really get a great job again. they might find some part time this or that work, but never make the big money again. I want mine set up to keep compounding so that I could leave anytime after 50 and never *have* to find a paycheck again, though i might anyway.

AMEN! That is our plan too

[Anne_in_VA]

I'm one of those who expected to work until I was 70, but life has stepped in and it's becoming more difficult to continue to work full time.  I'm now 68 and if you'd asked me a year ago, I would have said I'll keep working as long as I can because I honestly love my job.  I'm having health issues and the traveling is becoming more difficult as well as the full time work.  I don't do anything strenuous, but I'm just getting tired.

We're money wise, but I really wanted to do some things when I retired, but now I may not be able too.  

[Ombud]

I park in the garage and work on the 3rd floor. It never used to tire me to run up the 4 flights. But after the last bout of CA I get winded after 3 flights. Have to walk the 4th one to the 3rd floor. So yeah, we slow down.

Priorities also change. I'm not so sure I want to rent an apartment in Israel this spring

[phil5185]

This was my plan to be ready to retire long before I wanted to retire.

That's what we did, too, we crossed into financial independence at about age 50.

One thing I noticed - that knowledge changes your attitude at work - work is more fun when you don't have to do it. Also you can be more candid with your opinions.

[phil5185]

I'm not so sure I want to rent an apartment in Israel this spring

lol - I would have been sure of that at any age.

[Ombud]

Nov 16, 2015 15:33:16 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

I'm not so sure I want to rent an apartment in Israel this spring

lol - I would have been sure of that at any age.

I wanted to do it b4 Medicare so I'd have coverage there

[bimetalaupt]

 without knowing it I spent a life time working...  now

Just a thought,
Bruce

[Ombud]

There were only 2 yrs I didn't enjoy working -- 2004 (then left gov't job) & the last 12 months ....

Tried to get an appointment with someone get a 2nd pair of eyes to see if I could retire. He just wanted to sell me a fixed annuity

[jelloshots4all]

I hate retirement calculators. The amount of money they tell me I need to retire is absurd! I currently save 25% of my gross, my mortgage will be paid off in retirement, and the biggest money suck- KIDS- will be out of college and hopefully not living in my basement .

SS of $17K a year would cover insurance, gas, internet/phone, food and wine!

I know health insurance is the wild card as I am in charge of it for my companies and who knows what the 'gubmint will do in 15 years, but still.  As is inflation.

But there is no way I will need something like $10-15K per month to live on when I retire.  I own one coach purse, don't like crab legs, and I drive an older Mercedes, not an Escalade

[Works4me]

Fortunately, it looks like my money will outlast my life but my real goal is to spend my last dollar the day before I die.

[tskeeter]

Nov 12, 2015 6:05:36 GMT -5 lund said:

I am a bit surprised that people want to retire and get a new/second job, especially if in their early sixties and the new job is physically more taxing than the old job.
Why not keep working for another year instead?

That way, they will

• probably keep their benefits (saves money)
• may contribute to a 401k/similar (and defer the required minimum distributions if 70 or over)(increases retirement income)
  
• if they have a pension it may still increase (increases retirement income)
  
• SS will increase (until 70)
• one less year that their retirement money will need to support them (saves money)
• one more year of growth of retirement money (increases retirement income)
  

I've found that a job that requires physical activity may not be more tiring than many folks day job. I used to relax from my manufacturing finance job by working in my folks printing business, making deliveries, picking up supplies, working in the bindery, cutting paper, and other low skill tasks.  The change of pace, spending a day moving cases of paper and envelopes was less tiring than budgets, labor performance variances, and construction projects running over budget.

[Deleted]

I agree. I retired at age 61 2 years ago. I do plenty of physical work- removing wallpaper, weeding, painting, housecleaning. It's nothing like the stress of corporate life. In my case, I wouldn't have gotten much more SS because I made over the max for most of my career. I'm still planning on waiting till age 70 to file.

[trimatty471]

Nov 11, 2015 22:45:32 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Nov 11, 2015 22:03:19 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Wait. Does that mean I'm a unicorn?

Nov 11, 2015 22:13:01 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Yep and you can join me on the magic carpet ride. Puff the Magic Dragon is already aboard   

Yes, because everybody knows those are REAL!    



Speaking of myths.  Unless you want to take European trips monthly you will be surprised how little you really need in retirement (as long as mortgage, etc. are paid off) because there will also be a form of social security around to help your own personal savings even for you young whipper snappers.  But continue to save, save, save!

My mom retired 2 years ago at age 63 and says the same thing.  She had very little pension, she has 401 (k) which she has not touched, and she has social security.  I doubt if she has 250k in assets but she has no mortgage.

[trimatty471]

Nov 12, 2015 5:58:55 GMT -5 yogiii said:

10 million?!?!? That is very high. I'm 35 and if I had 3 million right now I'd quit my job tomorrow, no I'd quit today.

I am 40.  Give me 2 million and I will officially retire.