Random Retirement Question

[CCL]

How many people are going to be living off of this? It depends on a lot of variables like is house paid off, renting, etc. and healthcare arrangements.

[swamp]

This is YM. Unless you have a Billion stashed away, you suck as a human being.

[The Captain]

That seems tight to me.  It all depends on if you have a mortgage or not.

I use a tool like this to try to extrapolate forward by looking back:

www.buyupside.com/calculators/purchasepowerjan08.htm

If you put in 2014 in the first year cell and 1989 in the second (25 years) then put in $5000 for the amount you will see that over 25 years your dollars lost purchasing power by about half.

So your $4794 25 years from now is about $2,397 in today's dollars.

My utilities are $500 a month.
House/tax/home insurance is $2400 a month
Car payment/insurance $600 a month

Say $1K for groceries and other stuff and we spend about $5K a month to live our admittedly very comfortable lifestyle.

That will drop to $3600 when the house gets paid off.  $3K if we don't have a car payment (but you do need to replace vehicles even in retirement).

So my $3600 will need to be about $7,200 a month 25 years from now to maintain the same standard of living.

DH and I will need a little over $2M accumulated to throw that out at a 4% withdrawal rate.  I have a timeline and targets and for the most part we're hitting them.  If we get SS it's gravy, but I'm not counting on it.

That's how I do it.  I'm probably wrong and there are better ways but at least I have a plan and an idea of how to make it happen.

[Tiny]

That's 25 years away.... How old will be in 2040? I've noticed some confusion in real life conversations when one person is going with a 'retirement age' of 62 while others are thinking it's 65, 67 or 72.... or some other age like 55!

Also, will you be willing to move to a 'lower cost of living area' than you are now? Or will you be moving someplace more expensive? or staying in place?

As 'retirement' gets more easy to envision (and seeing other people retire) I'm realizing how much one's fixed expenses come into play on how far one's retirement income goes.


Also, don't forget that 50K is a 5% withdrawl rate for 1 Million in savings. Do you think you'll have any other sources of income? a pension? or are you willing to bet on SS? I would think with inflation and what not - that in 25 years - 5K a month isn't really going to go that far....

[Deleted]

It depends on what you think the the rate of inflation will be and what your expenses will be.  For me, this amount would not be much of a retirement.  You want to look at what you expect you would need to spend today to retire and then inflate that at what you expect the inflation rate will be to arrive at the number you expect to need to fund your retirement.  Working backwards and assuming even an average rate of inflation of 2% - even without compounding, 2% per year over 25 years is 50%.  With compounding, it will be even worse than that.  If I did the math correctly, with 2% inflation, 57,528 in 25 years is the equivalent of 35,065 today.  Could you live on $35,000 a year if you retired right now?

[CCL]

Oct 7, 2015 13:40:27 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Thanks... I was curious because I can't really find a good calculator for inflation and what it means in real dollars. 

Like I said this is a really rough calculation... basically MrSroo's pension + My SS (truthfully my SS calculation was thrown in there at the last minute and I'm not sure why I put it in there) .  It does not take into account my 401K or his 457b plan. 


...
It really started with a conversation while we were on vacation about early retirement.   He'll be eligible for his pension wayyyyy before I am due to to retire and we were kicking around the idea of what our plans are when he retires from the dept.   In theory we would be bringing in $42,000/year at that point off of his pension and we were talking about what we would want/need in our future.    

It is conceivable for us to both 'retire' with part time or sporadic jobs.   I don't know that we'd do it,  but the thought is intriguing. 

This is similar to our situation. Hubby was eligible for his pension at age 55, so I told him to take it lol. I figured we could always spend less. I worked part-time for another 18 months and we were getting along fine , so I retired, too. The pension pays our fixed and variable expenses, then we still have the 401k for extras like travel.

[yogiii]

Try this site
firecalc.com/
You can go to the "Not retired" tab and put in the year, the "Other Income" tab and put in the pension and SS estimates.

[yogiii]

I can't wait to retire!  The factors are I'm tired and sick of work.

[ArchietheDragon]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

IMHO to retire early you need to be saving at least 50% of your gross pay. 

[Deleted]

Have you tried firecalc.com ?  That's my favorite tool because you can enter all kinds of scenarios in and the results are in today's dollars, so I know what I'm making apples to apples comparisons.

As far as if it's enough, that depends.  If you're making 100K/year now you might not be happy with 50K.  I'm personally shooting for 4K/month in today's dollars.  Which is actually more than I make now and there will be no mortgage and kid expenses then so I think pretty comfy. 

[CCL]

We started seeing a lot of healthcare issues in our siblings. Many of them are 5, 6, 8 years older than us and, really, pretty much disabled, so we figured we better retire sooner rather than later. That was the number one factor for us.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 7, 2015 13:40:27 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Thanks... I was curious because I can't really find a good calculator for inflation and what it means in real dollars. 

Like I said this is a really rough calculation... basically MrSroo's pension + My SS (truthfully my SS calculation was thrown in there at the last minute and I'm not sure why I put it in there) .  It does not take into account my 401K or his 457b plan. 


...
It really started with a conversation while we were on vacation about early retirement.   He'll be eligible for his pension wayyyyy before I am due to to retire and we were kicking around the idea of what our plans are when he retires from the dept.   In theory we would be bringing in $42,000/year at that point off of his pension and we were talking about what we would want/need in our future.    

It is conceivable for us to both 'retire' with part time or sporadic jobs.   I don't know that we'd do it,  but the thought is intriguing. 

My DH realized recently (like 2 months recently) that at 55, I will most likely be eligible for full retirement from the City.  So he's thinking "my job+Beth's pension+Beth's job = lots of money! 

However, the kids will be starting college around then and I'm not sure if he's factoring that in or not.  I'm not sure if the "85 and out" rule (55 years of age + 30 years of service) will be in play or not because I thought that was a union contracted thing and I no longer have a union or a contract (I am not a member of Local 215.)  I think the City's been continuing to do it but that doesn't mean it will be an option in 10 years.  And God only knows what health insurance will be like in 10 years. 

ETA - I'm most scared of what's going to happen with health insurance when I retire, no matter what age that is.

[The Captain]

Oct 7, 2015 13:46:17 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Oct 7, 2015 13:28:41 GMT -5 The Captain said:

That seems tight to me.  It all depends on if you have a mortgage or not.

I use a tool like this to try to extrapolate forward by looking back:

www.buyupside.com/calculators/purchasepowerjan08.htm

If you put in 2014 in the first year cell and 1989 in the second (25 years) then put in $5000 for the amount you will see that over 25 years your dollars lost purchasing power by about half.

So your $4794 25 years from now is about $2,397 in today's dollars.

My utilities are $500 a month.
House/tax/home insurance is $2400 a month
Car payment/insurance $600 a month

Say $1K for groceries and other stuff and we spend about $5K a month to live our admittedly very comfortable lifestyle.

That will drop to $3600 when the house gets paid off.  $3K if we don't have a car payment (but you do need to replace vehicles even in retirement).

So my $3600 will need to be about $7,200 a month 25 years from now to maintain the same standard of living.

DH and I will need a little over $2M accumulated to throw that out at a 4% withdrawal rate.  I have a timeline and targets and for the most part we're hitting them.  If we get SS it's gravy, but I'm not counting on it.

That's how I do it.  I'm probably wrong and there are better ways but at least I have a plan and an idea of how to make it happen.

Thanks for the calculator link.  While useful,  it's pretty depressing 

NP. While I do plan on doing some cutting back on spending when retired, I really don't want to be in a position where I have to watch every penny.  I know a few retirees who do because they retired too early and didn't have enough saved for a 20+ year retirement.

Like I've said, if DH and I get even 75% of what we're supposed to for SS we'll be golden.  Still, I'm not counting on it.

[Lizard Queen]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

I feel like the key is to know exactly what you are spending on everything right now.  Of course, there will be some adjustments to spending in retirement, but the less moving parts there are, the less worry about something unexpected popping up later.

[CCL]

Oct 7, 2015 13:53:39 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Oct 7, 2015 13:47:09 GMT -5 CCL said:

This is similar to our situation. Hubby was eligible for his pension at age 55, so I told him to take it lol. I figured we could always spend less. I worked part-time for another 18 months and we were getting along fine , so I retired, too. The pension pays our fixed and variable expenses, then we still have the 401k for extras like travel.

If I may ask... how was your income split before the retirement?   Did you make more, less, or roughly equal to your hubby?

Right now we are more or less equal.  So it would be a 50% (or more) cut in income    

lol... now that I write that out... forget early retirement... that's terrifying!

We have mostly always lived off hubby's income. I have worked full-time, part-time, stay-at-home mom. It has varied a lot, so I never wanted to depend on my income. We always used it for extras rather than for necessities. Still, his pension is less than half what he made when he worked. We lived on a budget for a year before he actually called it quits and we did fine, so we took the plunge. It is scary, but I'm a planner, so knew in advance what the numbers would be and figured I could make it work. When the date is far-off, it's hard to envision, but as we got older, it got easier.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Oct 7, 2015 13:57:49 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Oct 7, 2015 13:54:18 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

My DH realized recently (like 2 months recently) that at 55, I will most likely be eligible for full retirement from the City.  So he's thinking "my job+Beth's pension+Beth's job = lots of money! 

However, the kids will be starting college around then and I'm not sure if he's factoring that in or not.  I'm not sure if the "85 and out" rule (55 years of age + 30 years of service) will be in play or not because I thought that was a union contracted thing and I no longer have a union or a contract (I am not a member of Local 215.)  I think the City's been continuing to do it but that doesn't mean it will be an option in 10 years.  And God only knows what health insurance will be like in 10 years. 

lol... I did the same math as your DH.  But I have to be honest... the thought about less stress + less money = Happy Sroo was an interesting formula as well

I do have to find out more about the health insurance benefits that are in his package.  

No kids to worry about,  so that's one less expected expenditure. 

Yeah, DH's health insurance package sucks.  Although his dental isn't bad - we're using that for him and the kids this year and likely next year. 

My qualifications have lapsed so I'd need to redo all of that in order to get an equivalent job, so I'd probably be working in a different field and making less money.  I don't know if that would make me happier or not.  Or less stressed. 

[CCL]

Oct 7, 2015 13:49:07 GMT -5 yogiii said:

I can't wait to retire!  The factors are I'm tired and sick of work.

LOL. I'm with you on that!

[emma1420]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

My dad was laid off with a very good pension that he could claim starting at age 50 (he was laid off at 52).  He retired at 52 drove my step-mother crazy for a couple years and then went back to work part-time for another 5-6 years.  He retired full-time when he was 61.   My dad has always been saver, and so when he was laid off his house was paid off, and he had a lot in savings, plus an excellent pension.  It also helps he lives in a country with free healthcare.

I am hoping SS is around when I retire. I think I'm going to need it to supplement my income, as I don't think I'll have enough in my 401K to live off for potentially 30 years.

[CCL]

Keep in mind, benefits tend to change. Ours have, but oh well. I expected and continue to expect healthcare costs to go up, especially.

[buystoys]

Before we pulled the plug, I used FIRECalc, I-Orp, Fidelity RIP, AARP, and probably just about every other retirement calculator tool I could find.  

DH and I hadn't really planned to retire early.  There were a series of events in 2013 that just kind of pushed me over the edge and I made a comment that I really just wanted to get off the crazy train.  DH asked me if I could retire since he knew I tracked everything.  Our goal was to have 25X expenses saved.  We weren't quite there and then I realized I wasn't including his pension in any of my numbers.  Once I did that, we looked good to go so decided to pull the plug.  The conversations began in May or June and we moved to Texas in November.

I will say that the past two years have not looked ANYTHING like we planned in 2013.  DH had thought he'd find a job once we were moved and settled (just to stay busy and reduce the monthly pull on investments) but his chronic health condition took a drastic swing downward.  Now he's on SSDI, so financially we are OK.  Our expenses were also severely miscategorized, but we're pretty much on budget for living expenses.  Due to DH's health and the recent passing of his best friend, we are doing our home and yard improvements at a faster pace than we originally planned, but we're both fine with that.  We pretty much have a taxable account that was targeted for those expenses and if we spend it sooner rather than later, well, at least DH can have some time to enjoy the fruit of his labors.

We watch what we spend, but we haven't felt the need (so far) to reduce what we spend.  I'm very happy we decided to take the plunge with the way things worked out. 

[CCL]

Oct 7, 2015 14:29:54 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Before we pulled the plug, I used FIRECalc, I-Orp, Fidelity RIP, AARP, and probably just about every other retirement calculator tool I could find.  

DH and I hadn't really planned to retire early.  There were a series of events in 2013 that just kind of pushed me over the edge and I made a comment that I really just wanted to get off the crazy train.  DH asked me if I could retire since he knew I tracked everything.  Our goal was to have 25X expenses saved.  We weren't quite there and then I realized I wasn't including his pension in any of my numbers.  Once I did that, we looked good to go so decided to pull the plug.  The conversations began in May or June and we moved to Texas in November.

I will say that the past two years have not looked ANYTHING like we planned in 2013.  DH had thought he'd find a job once we were moved and settled (just to stay busy and reduce the monthly pull on investments) but his chronic health condition took a drastic swing downward.  Now he's on SSDI, so financially we are OK.  Our expenses were also severely miscategorized, but we're pretty much on budget for living expenses.  Due to DH's health and the recent passing of his best friend, we are doing our home and yard improvements at a faster pace than we originally planned, but we're both fine with that.  We pretty much have a taxable account that was targeted for those expenses and if we spend it sooner rather than later, well, at least DH can have some time to enjoy the fruit of his labors.

We watch what we spend, but we haven't felt the need (so far) to reduce what we spend.  I'm very happy we decided to take the plunge with the way things worked out. 

This was one of our fears. I hope your husband and yourself are still able to enjoy some of your retirement.

[giramomma]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

I was hoping to retire by about 55. I'll have paid into my pension (state, fully funded). DH has passive income, would likely keep working, and I'd work part time. We could be fine for 10 years before we get on SS and medicare.

Then, enter my kids, who have turned out to be more expensive than I anticipated. We also had the last one later than I had anticipated.

I'm now thinking I'll have to work until I'm 60, max. But, then I'm more likely to retire retire, not retire and still hold down a part time job.

I dunno. My magic 8 ball isn't particularly useful.

I derive no self worth from working. Don't get me wrong, I pride myself in doing a good job. But work gets in the way of what I want to do with my life. My DH feels the same way.

I would like some time to myself. I wish I could even say that I could use the bathroom by myself. Alas, even that is off limits.

I either work or am there for my kids. That's it.

I would like some time with my husband, while we are awake. We have more conversations messaging/texting than we do face to face. There wasn't even time to celebrate our anniversary this year. Usually, we do a day thing a month after the fact. That's not even happening.

[buystoys]

Oct 7, 2015 14:38:38 GMT -5 CCL said:

Oct 7, 2015 14:29:54 GMT -5 buystoys said:

Before we pulled the plug, I used FIRECalc, I-Orp, Fidelity RIP, AARP, and probably just about every other retirement calculator tool I could find.  

DH and I hadn't really planned to retire early.  There were a series of events in 2013 that just kind of pushed me over the edge and I made a comment that I really just wanted to get off the crazy train.  DH asked me if I could retire since he knew I tracked everything.  Our goal was to have 25X expenses saved.  We weren't quite there and then I realized I wasn't including his pension in any of my numbers.  Once I did that, we looked good to go so decided to pull the plug.  The conversations began in May or June and we moved to Texas in November.

I will say that the past two years have not looked ANYTHING like we planned in 2013.  DH had thought he'd find a job once we were moved and settled (just to stay busy and reduce the monthly pull on investments) but his chronic health condition took a drastic swing downward.  Now he's on SSDI, so financially we are OK.  Our expenses were also severely miscategorized, but we're pretty much on budget for living expenses.  Due to DH's health and the recent passing of his best friend, we are doing our home and yard improvements at a faster pace than we originally planned, but we're both fine with that.  We pretty much have a taxable account that was targeted for those expenses and if we spend it sooner rather than later, well, at least DH can have some time to enjoy the fruit of his labors.

We watch what we spend, but we haven't felt the need (so far) to reduce what we spend.  I'm very happy we decided to take the plunge with the way things worked out. 

This was one of our fears. I hope your husband and yourself are still able to enjoy some of your retirement.

We are, thanks!  Well, I wouldn't say we enjoyed spending hours out in 100+ degree heat cutting 45 trees out of a fence line, but we cut the last one down yesterday!  w00t!  Both of us have decided that some things (like a two week driving trip to San Diego) just wouldn't be put off until "someday" arrived.  Hence the major landscaping project beginning this summer rather than in a couple of years.  We are in good shape to plant in two to three weeks if the nursery can get the trees we want.  At the latest, we should be able to plant by May, so DH should be able to enjoy easier maintenance in that 1/3 of our yard as well as have some time to appreciate all our efforts.  DH has become more concerned that some of these big projects get done while he can do them.  I'm more concerned that he pushes himself too hard, but he is getting better about letting himself take the extra time he now needs and taking more breaks.  As long as he can have some time to enjoy what we're working towards, I'm ecstatic!

We never anticipated the health issue, so the decision to leave the rat race is one I wouldn't ever change.  We'll just have to stay flexible in how we spend and what is a priority, but I wouldn't give up the past two years (even with the issues we've had to deal with) for anything. 

[murphath]

I accepted an early retirement incentive right before I turned 57.  That was 5 years ago and I have no regrets at all.  DH closed his business shortly thereafter but retirement isn't his thing so he's working for various caterers in the area.  He loves it as he is a very social person.  I'm the one that likes to tackle the home projects and have pretty much redone the entire house since retirement.  Have to repaint the interior doors but my enthusiasm has waned.

While we have always put $$ into an IRA/403B, my pension covers all our fixed expenses.  With DH still working a bit, we haven't had to withdraw any $$.  Also, our health care will be paid in full for another 5 years.  I could not have retired w/o that little perk.  I worked f/t  for 36 years (right after college graduation) and was, frankly, tired of the grind.  Yes, we would have way more $$ if I continued on but in reality, we don't spend that much.  Travel is our biggest expense--and 2 kids getting married--but I've been able to cash flow everything so far.  Once we start collecting social security, we should be quite comfortable.  Trying to wait until I turn 65/DH 66.

If you can financially do it, I say retire early.  Even if you do get a p/t job, if it's like my DH's, you can always say no when they ask if you want to work.  

[Ombud]

@sroo4, take that 42K with a grain of salt. If it's a gov't pension, you'll need to subtract:
Health insurance (800m here)
Taxes - federal & state (another 500 - 600m)
Now you're down to 2200m

Housing expenses?
Recreation?
Food?

Doesn't go as far as you thought, does it?

[svwashout]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

I made the decision after I found that my current annual living expenses (excluding income taxes) were well below 3% of my investment portfolio. I don't have a pension and social security is two decades away (I plan to start it late as I can). The 3% is a rough 'safe withdrawal rate' from a portfolio such that if you take that out the first year and increase subsequent withdrawals by the inflation rate, the portfolio is almost certain to last your lifetime. Today's low interest rates and the prospect for poor returns over the next decade have prompted some advisors to shave this safe withdrawal rate down to 2%, but I'm fine there as well.

I think it's considered more risky financially to retire early because most people would be giving up W2 income from their peak earning years, and their portfolio needs to last longer. On the other hand continuing to work till full retirement age carries the risk that you may no longer be able to do parts of your bucket list when you retire. For some people a happy medium is a 'second act' in the form of part time work that brings in less W2 income but gives more free time, whether that's four hours every weekday or six months on/six off.

As it turned out after a few weeks off, I found out I'd rather be at work doing something interesting, so I let management talk me back in, with a few adjustments. I'm no longer consciously saving for retirement (or anything else for that matter), but my habits are pretty much dialed in so I'm spending just a small percentage of my after-tax income.

[cronewitch]

I waited too long but not really sorry. One more year helps assure you have enough and aren't retiring into a down market. I felt the need to wait for Medicare since COBRA was too expensive and my job wasn't too bad. Something like 40% are forced into retirement by health or job loss. I wanted to work so long I had no temptation to work a minimum wage job like giving samples at Costco. Some choose to quit the day job and take a low paid lower stress job younger.

Inflation can go high fast or stay low a long time and you need to think past retirement day. Since I have been paying attention everything cost 10 times as much some more some less but pretty much ten times as much over 50 years. So if you need 50K now you may need 500K in 50 years or maybe we won't have that much but not shocked by prices doubling. I remember when a house cost way less than half my parents paid 13K, I paid 51.5K just 30 years ago so now about 4-5times that for the same old house.

Your assets like homes will inflate too so you might have a huge advantage over young home owners. Fixed income is a retirement killer so try to invest in things that inflate like equities and real estate if you don't have inflation protection.

[HoneyBBQ]

Oct 7, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So how do people decide to retire early?   What are the factors?  Is it less risky to retire early or wait until 'normal' retirement age? 

Sorry if I'm asking random questions,  this is just one of those things that I can't seem to get my head around. 

It's amazing the spread of the decision and logic behind early retirement...or retirement at all!

Bogleheads need 5-6 MM to retire with 200-250k/yr. Mustachians need 5-6k a year, so they retire with 250k in the bank. It just depends what your estimated expenses are.

I am personally way too conservative to imagine pulling the plug with less than a mill in the bank (in fact, my own number is way more), but that is way, way more than most of the MMM followers. You have to decide what your personal number is and decide what your risk tolerance is.

For MMM, they often discuss side gigs and doing part time work as they feel fit in "retirement". BHs want to live on a tropical island and never lift a finger for themselves again (gross generalizations, but you get the picture). Figure out what you want, plan for your 3%-4% withdrawl rate, run your firecalc sims, and BAM. There's your number.

For me? I'm hoping to retire at 53 at the latest. Maybe 48. Depends on the stock market, really, if I can get the numbers where I want them. This year did not do us any favors.

[HoneyBBQ]

Oct 7, 2015 15:15:10 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I really appreciate everyone chiming in.   I obviously have some time to think about this  15 years or so... but I think that it's one of those things that you kind of have to push to the forefront if you want to do it (save more aggressively,  pay things off more aggressively, etc). 

Maybe it was the realization that I have 30 years of work in front of me that made me start thinking about this... damn 30 years.. sigh


Although it is nice to know there are other options!    I think I'll sit down and work out a goal/stretch goal type of retirement scenario and see what that looks like.   I think I might know some people who wouldn't mind poking some holes or suggesting alternatives 

Exactly - you have to personalize it. Some people want to leave a legacy. Some people want to die spending their last cent.

Some people want to travel extensively. Some people just want to putter around the house and play scrabble. You've got to figure out your own desires and go from there.

[CCL]

Oct 8, 2015 2:39:41 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I waited too long but not really sorry. One more year helps assure you have enough and aren't retiring into a down market. I felt the need to wait for Medicare since COBRA was too expensive and my job wasn't too bad. Something like 40% are forced into retirement by health or job loss. I wanted to work so long I had no temptation to work a minimum wage job like giving samples at Costco. Some choose to quit the day job and take a low paid lower stress job younger.

Inflation can go high fast or stay low a long time and you need to think past retirement day. Since I have been paying attention everything cost 10 times as much some more some less but pretty much ten times as much over 50 years. So if you need 50K now you may need 500K in 50 years or maybe we won't have that much but not shocked by prices doubling. I remember when a house cost way less than half my parents paid 13K, I paid 51.5K just 30 years ago so now about 4-5times that for the same old house.

Your assets like homes will inflate too so you might have a huge advantage over young home owners. Fixed income is a retirement killer so try to invest in things that inflate like equities and real estate if you don't have inflation protection.

We never counted too much on real estate. Aren't you out by Seattle? It's a different story here in Indiana. Houses around here just don't appreciate that much, maybe 50% in the 25 years I've paid attention?