Punishment Fit The Infraction?

[Tennesseer]

SHould this employee have been fired?

Man Fired After Making Racist Post About Coworker's Son

"Here's yet another example of how not to behave in the workplace.

In September, a white Facebook user, who goes my the name Geris Hilton (according to NewsOne, his real name is Gerod Roth), posted a selfie featuring his coworker’s adorable black son with a racist caption. His friends were quick to chime in with more racist jokes, all made at the expense of the child. The comments were downright disgusting, including "I didn't know you were a slave owner" and "But Massuh, I dindu nuffin."



The post went viral this week after, just days after Hilton was fired, and the hashtag #HisNameIsCayden began trending on Twitter.

The little boy at the center of the controversy is 3-year-old Cayden Jace. His mother, Sydney Jade, was unaware of the Facebook post until another coworker brought it to her attention. Last week, a friend shared a Facebook post by Jade, where she identified her son Cayden and thanked supporters for their kind words and for speaking out about the exploitation of her son.

On Friday, Roth was fired from Polaris Marketing Group in Atlanta, according to a statement released by the company.


"Cayden visits my office almost every afternoon after daycare, he's sat at my dinner table and I consider him a part of the PMG family,” wrote Michael Da Graca Pinto, the company’s president. "The atrocious lies, slander, and racism [Cayden] and his mother have been forced to endure are wholly intolerable.”

Man Fired After Making Racist Post About Coworker's Son

[milee]

Are you asking if it's too great a punishment to be fired for this?

IMHO, no.  This is not an issue that only impacts an employee's personal life and doesn't hurt the company; something like this is not only awful for company morale (think what it would be like to be that parent and have to continue to work with this jerk?) but is directly related to the employee's job. He's in the marketing division - implying he's part of representing and developing marketing for the company. You don't want a racist being part of your marketing department, developing marketing for your company or being the "face" of your company.

It might be a little tougher call if, for example, the racist was a janitor or assembled parts so had nothing to do with customer service or representing or marketing the company. As an employer you might find his views repugnant but try to counsel him instead of firing him, depending on how he interacted with other employees and the parent. But to have someone like this on your marketing team? Crazy. You have to fire him. That's not a punishment, it's about good business.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 6, 2015 13:59:01 GMT -5 milee said:

Are you asking if it's too great a punishment to be fired for this?

IMHO, no.  This is not an issue that only impacts an employee's personal life and doesn't hurt the company; something like this is not only awful for company morale (think what it would be like to be that parent and have to continue to work with this jerk?) but is directly related to the employee's job. He's in the marketing division - implying he's part of representing and developing marketing for the company. You don't want a racist being part of your marketing department, developing marketing for your company or being the "face" of your company.

It might be a little tougher call if, for example, the racist was a janitor or assembled parts so had nothing to do with customer service or representing or marketing the company. As an employer you might find his views repugnant but try to counsel him instead of firing him, depending on how he interacted with other employees and the parent. But to have someone like this on your marketing team? Crazy. You have to fire him. That's not a punishment, it's about good business.

Oh I think the employee should have been fired. No doubt in my mind. Just asking what others think.

[Deleted]

I think it's sad that there are adults out there that would behave like this.

[milee]

Oct 6, 2015 14:00:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oct 6, 2015 13:59:01 GMT -5 milee said:

Are you asking if it's too great a punishment to be fired for this?

IMHO, no.  This is not an issue that only impacts an employee's personal life and doesn't hurt the company; something like this is not only awful for company morale (think what it would be like to be that parent and have to continue to work with this jerk?) but is directly related to the employee's job. He's in the marketing division - implying he's part of representing and developing marketing for the company. You don't want a racist being part of your marketing department, developing marketing for your company or being the "face" of your company.

It might be a little tougher call if, for example, the racist was a janitor or assembled parts so had nothing to do with customer service or representing or marketing the company. As an employer you might find his views repugnant but try to counsel him instead of firing him, depending on how he interacted with other employees and the parent. But to have someone like this on your marketing team? Crazy. You have to fire him. That's not a punishment, it's about good business.

Oh I think the employee should have been fired. No doubt in my mind. Just asking what others think.

BTW, my opinion is assuming that the caption the employee posted above the picture was indeed racist.  The article doesn't disclose what the "racist caption" was, so I'm assuming that it was actually racist.

That's worth pointing out because I am starting to see incidents where people call something racist that I wouldn't necessarily agree was racist.  Hickle gave an example on another thread of a person calling him racist for using the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black".  Black refers to the actual color the kettle gets from being charred on the fire - this is not a racist statement. 

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Definitely. This guy is not only racist, but also has piss poor judgement.

[dannylion]

No question he should have been fired.

I can't fathom the kind of mind that would think that was a good idea, even a mind holding racist views and even with a whole posse of like-minded idiots to encourage him.  It's just stupid. 

Even if the "humor" had been unexceptionable and innocuous, his thinking it was a good idea to use a picture of someone else's child without permission would have crossed the line.

[NancysSummerSip]

Incredibly poor judgment on the employee's part, to say the least. Whether you like it or not, part of the corporate or company "you" is intermeshed with the social media "you." And don't think for a minute that your superiors are not checking you out. There's a whole new subsection of background checking now when it comes to social media searches. While they are normally not considered heavily in a hiring (or firing) decision), this is an example of when it did.

ETA: and as Dannylion mentioned, there is the use of a minor child's image without parental knowledge or permission. A very serious misstep for this guy. When I do my food blog postings, I make sure I do not use children's faces, or if they are there, I blur them out. Using them can get you sued.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

He wouldn't have had to have been fired if that were my son, he'd have been a spot on the concrete by the time I was done with him.

[swamp]

Oct 6, 2015 14:10:12 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 6, 2015 14:00:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oh I think the employee should have been fired. No doubt in my mind. Just asking what others think.

BTW, my opinion is assuming that the caption the employee posted above the picture was indeed racist.  The article doesn't disclose what the "racist caption" was, so I'm assuming that it was actually racist.

That's worth pointing out because I am starting to see incidents where people call something racist that I wouldn't necessarily agree was racist.  Hickle gave an example on another thread of a person calling him racist for using the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black".  Black refers to the actual color the kettle gets from being charred on the fire - this is not a racist statement. 

I was also wondering what the racist caption was.

The kid is adorable, I'd take my picture with him if I knew him. (ETA and his parents are OK with it, I don't go around taking pics of random kids)  BUt if my friends started putting up racist comments, I would tear them a new one.

Although I do think the comment, "put him back, they're expensive" was funny. I didn't see that as racist, I thought it pertained to all kids.

[mmhmm]

Darned right he should have been fired and I'm glad the company's president took that action and took it quickly. I sure wouldn't want someone like that working for me, or even in the same office!

[The Captain]

Oct 6, 2015 14:08:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I think it's sad that there are adults out there that would behave like this.

There's really nothing I can add to this.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 6, 2015 14:42:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 6, 2015 14:10:12 GMT -5 milee said:

BTW, my opinion is assuming that the caption the employee posted above the picture was indeed racist.  The article doesn't disclose what the "racist caption" was, so I'm assuming that it was actually racist.

That's worth pointing out because I am starting to see incidents where people call something racist that I wouldn't necessarily agree was racist.  Hickle gave an example on another thread of a person calling him racist for using the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black".  Black refers to the actual color the kettle gets from being charred on the fire - this is not a racist statement. 

I was also wondering what the racist caption was.

The kid is adorable, I'd take my picture with him if I knew him. (ETA and his parents are OK with it, I don't go around taking pics of random kids)  BUt if my friends started putting up racist comments, I would tear them a new one.

Although I do think the comment, "put him back, they're expensive" was funny. I didn't see that as racist, I thought it pertained to all kids.

I did some googling and couldn't find the caption. My guess is that the caption itself wasn't racist, but his friends' comments certainly were. The employee also referred to the boy as feral in one of his replies. It was terrible judgement to post the picture of a coworker's child without her permission, and it was terrible judgement to not delete the post immediately when his racist friends started commenting. I wouldn't want to work with this guy.

[swamp]

Oct 6, 2015 15:05:15 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I think it fits.  The pic was taken at work,  I'm guessing with company technology, of a coworkers child.  

It is absolutely within the company purview to act.     

I guess I don't understand on what planet this wouldn't result in termination.  

Confederacy, 1863.

[milee]

Oct 6, 2015 15:03:09 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

Oct 6, 2015 14:42:18 GMT -5 swamp said:

I was also wondering what the racist caption was.

The kid is adorable, I'd take my picture with him if I knew him. (ETA and his parents are OK with it, I don't go around taking pics of random kids)  BUt if my friends started putting up racist comments, I would tear them a new one.

Although I do think the comment, "put him back, they're expensive" was funny. I didn't see that as racist, I thought it pertained to all kids.

I did some googling and couldn't find the caption. My guess is that the caption itself wasn't racist, but his friends' comments certainly were. The employee also referred to the boy as feral in one of his replies. It was terrible judgement to post the picture of a coworker's child without her permission, and it was terrible judgement to not delete the post immediately when his racist friends started commenting. I wouldn't want to work with this guy.

See that's what I was wondering.  If the caption wasn't racist, then it's a tougher call.  Posting the picture of someone else's child is dumb, but not a firing offense.

Same thing with calling a child feral.  That didn't strike me as racist because I call my own children feral - it means wild.  So if the original caption wasn't racist and him calling the child feral wasn't racist, then his offenses were:

1) Not shutting down the racist comments of his friends

2) Posting the picture of a child without the parents' permission.

1 and 2 are dumb, but I'm not as sure they're firing offenses.  BTW, I'm not defending this guy - he did bad and dumb things.  I'm just answering the OP's question about what types of bad and dumb things are firing offenses.

[dannylion]

There were other articles that showed the whole series of increasingly awful and racist comments.  Not only did the guy not delete the comments, he replied to at least one apparently in the same spirit.   He has made the obligatory statement of remorse (it was a "joke" that went wrong)  with a promise of an apology to come.   Apparently one of the particularly egregious commenters has also been fired (different employer).

Interestingly, the company says he was fired for "unrelated reasons."  After reading the awkwardly written, grammatically and syntactically depressing comment he has already produced, one wonders if this was just the last straw needed to boot out a poor performer.  One would think someone in marketing would at least be able to string a few professional-sounding sentences together. 

It seems the original picture might have been posted without comment, and it was his failure to object to his friends' comments or even delete them and then seeming to condone them by replying in the same vein that got him into trouble.  So, he basically behaved like an idiot from the get-go.  Also, he appears to be stupid. 

[quince]

Yes.

[mmhmm]

If the company is in a free will state, they don't need a reason to fire the dude. If there's something in their company policy (and the employee signed an agreement to comply with policy) that precludes this sort of thing, that might do for those who aren't in free will states. Not sure about that one.

[happyhoix]

It always amazes me that people don't realize what they post on FB is out there in the public domain, free to be forwarded around, copied, whatever.

DH works for a court that reviews custody agreements and he has seen a woman who was laughing on FB about the cops showing up to try to arrest her BF (who she admits is a drug dealer) - she laughs about having the cops in the front yard and running through the house. Then another woman had a profile on an escort website (including pictures) offering her services for a certain number of 'roses.'  Did they not think that their ex spouses would be checking on line for crap to hold against them during custody battles?

Now this idiot not only lost his job but made the mistake of doing so with a selfie so that his face is also rocketing around the internet along with his racist comments. Good luck on your next job interview, unless it's with the KKK.

Idiot.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 6, 2015 15:13:13 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 6, 2015 15:03:09 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

I did some googling and couldn't find the caption. My guess is that the caption itself wasn't racist, but his friends' comments certainly were. The employee also referred to the boy as feral in one of his replies. It was terrible judgement to post the picture of a coworker's child without her permission, and it was terrible judgement to not delete the post immediately when his racist friends started commenting. I wouldn't want to work with this guy.

See that's what I was wondering.  If the caption wasn't racist, then it's a tougher call.  Posting the picture of someone else's child is dumb, but not a firing offense.

Same thing with calling a child feral.  That didn't strike me as racist because I call my own children feral - it means wild.  So if the original caption wasn't racist and him calling the child feral wasn't racist, then his offenses were:

1) Not shutting down the racist comments of his friends

2) Posting the picture of a child without the parents' permission.

1 and 2 are dumb, but I'm not as sure they're firing offenses.  BTW, I'm not defending this guy - he did bad and dumb things.  I'm just answering the OP's question about what types of bad and dumb things are firing offenses.

I feel like the context makes calling the child feral at least a bit racist. There is nothing wrong with calling a child that you are related to feral. However, joking with your white buddies about how a colleague's black child is feral pings my racism detector.
Also, the fact that it was his coworker's child and not some random kid tips the scales in favor of me thinking he should be fired.
Anyway, I think we are in agreement that this guy is an idiot.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 6, 2015 16:22:57 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Now this idiot not only lost his job but made the mistake of doing so with a selfie so that his face is also rocketing around the internet along with his racist comments. Good luck on your next job interview,

Here's where I start to feel like does a guy's life and future employment being pretty much ruined forever doesn't fit the the infraction.   


... 

This is an interesting topic.  I have another one if anyone cares to weigh in on. 

So this person wasn't fired... should they have been?

Note: I'm not posting any of the story here.  While it is published in a major US newspaper (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel) and I would consider it safe for work it does deal with some adult themes and sexuality (wow I feel like a parental warning) and don't want to go awry of the Proboards TOS   Mods if this crosses that line (and I truly don't think it does) let me know and I'll remove. 

Link to story

IDK, I want to lean towards yes.   I have nothing against female orgasms myself  and would be fine talking about them in physiology class, health class, even in Women's Lit.

But to have a coach send a random email to me about it?   Creepy.

I also believe that would cross over into sexual harassment territory if I understand most workplace policies on it.     

As far as the racist guy I agree he's a stupid asshole but he lost his current job over it, that should be the end of it IMO he paid his dues.   I don't think we should render someone unemployable over being an asshole.

[Tennesseer]

Found this from the Atlanta Journal:

When he initially posted the photo, it doesn’t appear that Roth actually commented.

But in response to someone asking, “Dude where the hell did you get a black kid??” Geris Hilton responded: “He was feral.”

Later, in an image that appears to be a Facebook Messenger conversation, someone asks the question, “Why is he feral though?”

An avatar that appears to be Hilton/Roth’s responds with: “Because he was abandoned in the Atlanta projects, to fend for himself, he is deaf mute, ca’t (cq) properly communicate and is in and out of a shelter home, that is the definition of feral.”

Facebook post's racist comments target coworker's child, get several fired

You just don't publicly post stuff like this about a co-worker's kid.

[Tennesseer]

@sroo4-read your linked article.  My opinion is the discipline meted out was appropriate (reprimand but no termination).  

I guess you always have to think about your position within an organization, your audience, and whether or not they will be receptive (in this case) to the message contained in an email.   I think the guy failed to remember all that.

[souldoubt]

Being racist is bad enough and if you're dumb enough to post something like that on social media you deserve any repercussions your employer sees fit.  My company's employee policy covers social media use and these days I'm guessing most companies have something similar where they say in so many words don't be an idiot and post something you shouldn't that reflects poorly on you and/or the company.  Many employers will look at your social media site during the hiring process to weed out turds like Geris. Let's set aside the racist aspect for a minute and also realize kids should be off limits.  Don't ridicule someone else's kids and sure as hell don't post their picture online ridiculing them.  

[thyme4change]

That guy looks like a frat boy that has gotten away with stupid shit until now. He thought he could get out of this with "it was a joke."

My favorite comment is: 'Feed that pour child' POUR.

[Phoenix84]

I think misrepresenting the company in such a light in a public forum was just grounds for termination of the employee.

[Tiny]

The kid is adorable and there isn't anything intrinsically horrible about the picture so it comes down to WHY the guy even bothered to post this on HIS facebook (work stuff on personal facebook page is always iffy at best), what was done with the picture - ie the caption, and then what other people (his friends) posted.

I do agree that he should have been fired. Even if it did start out innocently and went horribly wrong.


There's a reason you keep work and personal life separate (as best you can)...

[milee]

Oct 6, 2015 16:26:00 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

Oct 6, 2015 15:13:13 GMT -5 milee said:

See that's what I was wondering.  If the caption wasn't racist, then it's a tougher call.  Posting the picture of someone else's child is dumb, but not a firing offense.

Same thing with calling a child feral.  That didn't strike me as racist because I call my own children feral - it means wild.  So if the original caption wasn't racist and him calling the child feral wasn't racist, then his offenses were:

1) Not shutting down the racist comments of his friends

2) Posting the picture of a child without the parents' permission.

1 and 2 are dumb, but I'm not as sure they're firing offenses.  BTW, I'm not defending this guy - he did bad and dumb things.  I'm just answering the OP's question about what types of bad and dumb things are firing offenses.

I feel like the context makes calling the child feral at least a bit racist. There is nothing wrong with calling a child that you are related to feral. However, joking with your white buddies about how a colleague's black child is feral pings my racism detector.
Also, the fact that it was his coworker's child and not some random kid tips the scales in favor of me thinking he should be fired.
Anyway, I think we are in agreement that this guy is an idiot.

OK, now that I re-read it with that take, I see what you mean.  When I first read it, I was only looking for the author's comments - to see what he said that was racist - and my first thought was he was joking about that cutie being "feral" because he had a big stain on his shirt.  We tease each other in our family about being messy, so that was my assumption.  But given that the "feral" thing came in the middle of other racist comments, I can see that it may not have been nice teasing about the mess (which is perfectly normal for little guys).

[dannylion]

Oct 6, 2015 18:54:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 6, 2015 16:26:00 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

I feel like the context makes calling the child feral at least a bit racist. There is nothing wrong with calling a child that you are related to feral. However, joking with your white buddies about how a colleague's black child is feral pings my racism detector.
Also, the fact that it was his coworker's child and not some random kid tips the scales in favor of me thinking he should be fired.
Anyway, I think we are in agreement that this guy is an idiot.

OK, now that I re-read it with that take, I see what you mean.  When I first read it, I was only looking for the author's comments - to see what he said that was racist - and my first thought was he was joking about that cutie being "feral" because he had a big stain on his shirt.  We tease each other in our family about being messy, so that was my assumption.  But given that the "feral" thing came in the middle of other racist comments, I can see that it may not have been nice teasing about the mess (which is perfectly normal for little guys).

If you can find one of the later articles about this, he elaborated on the "feral comment" later by saying he found the child abandoned in the "projects" and other equally charming remarks. 

He is claiming he is a victim because he's being punished for what other people said on his Facebook page, but he got caught up in the stupidity himself, and he could have deleted or hidden the comments when it became apparent what was happening, or he could have just deleted the picture and everything about it when it started going bad, and there would have been no issue. 

[Value Buy]

Why, oh why, would anyone do a selfie at work and post it?

And this stuff happens because people take their cute little kids to work and everyone starts thinking they are the next Jimmie Fallon.
Where was mom when this selfie was taken? Why wasn't the chlld with her?