Young adult needs rehab, but what to do?

[luckyme]

I come here for some feedback as I am just too close to it all.

DD20 has been dating a bum, older, in and out of jail, a mess.   We are not happy, was hoping she would get sick of his BS and leave him.  We were advised if we made too much of an issue she would dig in even more & see him out of spite.  

She was doing really well in college, Dean's list, had 2 part time jobs, and we had hoped being around successful people would help her realize this isn't the kind of guy she wants.

They recently had their year anniversary & he is back in jail.   I found her stoned out of her mind Sat morning.  She was practically incoherent.  I thought she was joking around but she wasn't.  Apparently, she has been smoking Spice, as an alternative to pot as it doesn't show up in drug tests.  

She also missed school on Friday & an exam, something she has not done with this program before.  Also found out she has quit/been fired from both of her jobs.  This has all happened within the past month.  

I am hoping she can reverse this before it becomes her new way of life.  BUT, what can a parent do w/ a young adult?  I have told her if she wants to continue living here, she will need to get family counseling.  But other than that, I don't know what else I can or should do.  

Any advice?  

[The Captain]

I am so sorry you're going through this. 

I saw this with a fair number of family friends.  Other than don't enable her (which it doesn't sound like you're doing) make sure she knows there are certain expectations if she wants to continue living at home.  I'm not sure family counseling is enough.

Unfortunately if someone wants to implode, there's little you can do to stop them.  Easy for me to say, I know.  Good luck.

[NancysSummerSip]

You've already started by telling her she will need counseling in order to remain in your home.

Assuming you are paying some of her other expenses (well, all of them, now that she lost both jobs), tell her that will come to an end. No money, no support, no place to live - it all comes to a crashing halt if this continues. Since this is apparently new behavior (the drug use part) it is imperative that you get to work on it early, before it escalates. But understand that she is an adult, and can walk out on you and any help you offer at any time.

If your county's jail/inmate roster is online, you should be able to track his whereabouts, as in whether he is still incarcerated or whether he has been released. Keep informed of where he is, and do what you need to do to keep him away from your home. You many not be able to prevent DD from leaving, but you have the right to protect yourselves and your property.

You need to be firm and decisive but still let her know you love her. Your safety and sanity matter, and you cannot allow your life to go to hell in a handbasket because your child made a decision to hang out with a lowlife. He may have introduced her to bad habits, but she made the decision to engage in them. They both bear responsibility here, but only she is your child. You can help her, but as a legal adult, she can spite you and leave. If she chooses to do that, let her know there is no returning unless it is under your rules.

[milee]

That is one of the toughest situations for a parent to face - young adult who needs help but doesn't recognize it and there's not a lot you can do to force the issue without making it worse. So sorry your family is going through this right now.

[Deleted]

Oh man.  I have no advice, but just wanted to tell you how sorry I am you're going through this.  Spice is NASTY stuff.  I wish they'd just legalize weed so people would quit turning to that crap.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

What I would do now is to protect myself financially.  Since your daughter lost her jobs, she will be looking for a new source of income.  Your house, credit and wallet are all fair game for $$ for her.

I'd put a credit lock on my credit, get a safety deposit box to store jewelry and valuables, and keep your purse locked up.

[giramomma]

I'm sorry you are in this situation.

My suggestion to you is to get yourself in counseling of some kind.

Making boundaries with loved ones is one thing. Keeping them is another. But, this doesn't prepare you for the feelings/emotions you'll be dealing with while you are upholding your boundaries.

And, it's the little stuff too..It's helpful to role play answers to innocent questions/small talk. That, I found to be the worst.

[happyhoix]

What concerns me is that she was stoned out of her mind on spice at a time, I assume, when the BF was in jail. This means she isn't doing stupid stuff just under his crappy influence, but she's doing it on her own.

These situations are always really hard because DD is an adult. About the only thing you can do is limit what she can do in your home. With my DS, the rule was, once he graduated HS he either had to be a full time student or working full time (and paying some rent) if he wanted to live at home. Flunking out of school and laying around the house was not an option. If you haven't made that clear to her, I would. Hopefully she is using BC?

Very sorry for you, your family and most of all your daughter. You said this was just in the last month, and prior to that she was doing really well, so hopefully she will have her little flutter then realize how destructive it is, the BF and focus on school again.

[HoneyBBQ]

I'm sorry. What does she say when you talk to her about cleaning up her act?

[mmhmm]

Spice (K2) is dangerous! The effects have absolutely nothing to do with the "spices" purportedly in the mix. Those "spices" are coated with synthetic THC. That's what creates the effect. She needs to get off that stuff NOW. It can kill her.

I'm so sorry she's run off the rails on you. That's really tough to deal with when the person involved is an adult. She's got to want to get clean and create a decent life for herself.

Hugs, hon. I can only imagine what you're going through right now. 

[The Captain]

luckyme - not that it sounds like it may matter, but you may want to have your DD do some research on spice.  I'd never heard of the stuff and had to look it up.

It's worse than MJ.  More adverse reactions, psychosis, and deaths associated with it's use.  Just because it won't show up on a test, doesn't mean it's safe.

Not exactly the kind of thing for a young woman to be polluting her body with.

[lund]

Get her to counseling. Perhaps also a NA group?

Get you (and your DH) to counseling too. You will need support to be able to set and keep your house rules and avoid enabling your daughter's wrong path. Find a support group for relatives if available in your area.

The following will be hard reading, and appear very cold and devoid of feelings. It is not meant to - I wish you all well - but the focus of the following is not on the child who has chosen a bad path but on the other family members who may be hit by it. Your other child(ren?) do not deserve getting dragged down, and nor do you and your DH.

Realise that if she uses, the drug will rule her while she may or may not look like and behave like she used to.
Preventing any prohibited use of your funds or assets helps keeping the road back open should she chose to take it.
She needs to chose and act on her choice; you can't fix it for her or fix her, no matter how much you do love her.
Since she is using without her BF, she is a user on her own and not only "accompanying him" using. This is a bad sign that her drug use is past the beginner stage.

If she is living with you, start by protecting you. This situation can go downhill very fast and have an even more severe impact on you, which you do not deserve to have to face, especially not in addition to everything else. You do not need to tell her that you do this. If you do, you may be met with great drama and comments like "you do not love me, this is all your fault". If you are, for any reason, you need to ignore it. (That is the drug speaking.) Just protect yourselves anyway. (And what she has had access to, her BF may have had access to too.)

Lock up all easily stolen small and medium-sized valuables, preferably in a bank safety deposit box (and check that you have all of them). Also any bank or retirement papers (account numbers) and ID papers. Make sure that she does not have access to any of your bank accounts or bank safety deposit boxes.
Put a security freeze on the credits of all household members.
Check your credit reports. (You are not allowed to check hers unless she agrees.)
Do not let her become or remain an authorized user on any kind of credit that you have.
Check your bank accounts. Anything amiss?
Change any passwords that she may have had access to (on-line banking, house alarm, computer purchasing,...)
Check that she has not had access to keys to any other homes or houses than yours (grannies, your workplace,...). If yes, warn and make sure that nothing is missing there, and change the locks there.
If she moves out (highly likely if she is not allowed to use in your home), change all locks everywhere on the house/garage/shed.
Check with relatives and close friends of yours so that she has not been allowed to borrow money that you do not know anything about, or to handle cash or valuables.
Let relatives know what has happened to avoid them lending (or giving) her money. (She will use it for drugs or to "replace" money used for drugs, and the lenders may also, illogically and wrongly, ask you for paying them back....)
If you can, search her room. Look for evidence of drug use and of illicit use of your funds/assets. (Slips from cash withdrawals, pawn shops,....)
Search the rest of the home. Look for any hidden stashes, and for evidence of use, or of illicit use of your assets.
Since she is using, she is not to be allowed to drive a car belonging to you. Liability issues!
If she has done anything illegal towards family, consider taking a hard approach. Often nothing happens until rock bottom has been hit.
Read "Codependant no more". ETA: and "Boundaries".
Check what your health insurance allows for.

This situation probably has been going on under your radar for some time, probably two to six months at least.
Do not be surprised if she has been fired from her jobs and her studies are a mess. It may not be possible for you to find out (since she is an adult), but be prepared for bad news and that your daughter will try to deny it, hide it, or tell a very embellished version of the events.

This is a situation similar to the oxygen masks of the airplane: Start by protecting you. Then try to help her if possible. She has to want ot be helped, not just be pretending to want it. It is likely that she will pretend wanting to, since it is the road of less resistance right now.

Find out if you can check if she uses  through some kind of comercially available urine test. If you can, you will be able to check that she stays off the drug. (But be prepared that if she has used, she will  go to great lengths not to pee on the stick at all, and if she has to, to cheat using any other liquid. You will need to see it be done in order to believe the result.)

A huge difference between alcohol and cannabinoids is that the latter can be stored in the fatty tissue of the body for a long time. For alcohol, which is water soluble and thus passing through the body faster, this time is short - the drinker usually wants to drink more than once a day. But  for substances which are stored in fatty tissue, which is not as easily "circulated" (as any potential weight loss candidate knows), it takes a longer time to get the concentration down. Thus, it takes more time for the level to sink to a "level of craving" when the addict will start to look for the next dose. How long depends on the drug, how far into the dependancy the user is, the personal biological characteristics of the user, and probably more. So not having used for several days or even weeks, sometimes several months, can not be equalled with "stopped using". So be suspicious - in order to be able to say "stopped using", you need a period of sobriety of at least a year.

Long-term BC is a goood idea if you can get her to use it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Lucky get yourself into some counseling or attend some NA meetings yourself. You're going to need support to stick to whatever boundaries you set and not slide into enabling (it's easier than you think). You'll also want a private space to share a lot of the feelings that come with this, especially if she refuses to clean up her act.

My DH is a 20+ recovered speed addict. He said his mother begged/cried/drug him to NA but nothing worked until he woke up one day and hated himself so much he decided he wanted to change.  Otherwise he just went thru the motions to shut her up then go back to using again.

So be prepared for her to make a show of going with you to therapy in hopes it will keep you happy and supporting her.  You are going to have to make sure you are ready to enforce whatever consequences you set for not following thru and getting clean.  I recommend you work with the therapist to set a date/timeline with goals she has to meet and if she doesn't then X consequences apply.

Be prepared too for this to take multiple tries.  Relapse is often part of the process.  You may have a very long twisted road ahead of you.

I am so sorry. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do to make her change her behavior, she is going to have to want to do it for herself in order for it to work and stick.  

What you can do is protect yourself. NA/therapy can help with that. It doesn't make you a bad parent or person. You have to put on your own oxygen mask first.

I hope that now that loser BF is in jail that she'll have time to reflect on everything she's lost and that this new pattern of behavior isn't worth it.

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2015 15:37:29 GMT -5 The Captain said:

luckyme - not that it sounds like it may matter, but you may want to have your DD do some research on spice.  I'd never heard of the stuff and had to look it up.

It's worse than MJ.  More adverse reactions, psychosis, and deaths associated with it's use.  Just because it won't show up on a test, doesn't mean it's safe.

Not exactly the kind of thing for a young woman to be polluting her body with.

I'd never heard about it before either until my ex started using it.  He was all proud of himself because (at the time) it was legal in MN and you could just pick it up at gas stations and tobacco stores.  He figured this was "so much better than the illegal route".   This was 5 years ago and it's not legal anymore! 

It would mess him up so much.  Way, way worse than pot ever did.  Within a couple months he lost his job and when he was job hunting he would black out and not even remember having interviewed with people, and go back to the same place a few days later!  Needless to say he didn't get any of those jobs.  He started selling our stuff to buy it and eventually realized he was addicted and was able to quit, but it was hard.  Of course he went back to weed, but in comparison it was 100 times better. 

[bobosensei]

I feel for your family.  My little brother has struggled with drugs for most of his life.  So from the perspective of a sibling I can tell you what I saw.

1) You have to stop making excuses for your DD.  In the OP I see blame for the older boyfriend, and while she may have been seduced by an older bad boy to try drugs she is the person to blame for that decision.  The fact that she is still using despite him not being around and letting it get to a level that is causing major problems with school and work is on her at this point, not the guy.  

In my experience I saw my mom always making excuses for my brother. It was always his friends or some unjust system that was out to persecute him. Once she even blamed me for him forging checks on her account because she was out of the house when it happened. She told me I should have realized that he was doing something wrong when he put a lamp under a glass table. I was 16 and trying to do my homework before going to ballet class. Yeah, I thought it was odd when I saw him working so intently on something, but why would I know that is a common method for forgery?  To me what was odd was that he looked like he was doing homework.  She was totally ready to overlook the fact that he overdrew her account, didn't even mention what he used the money for, it was all about how my negligence allowed it to happen.  Don't think my brother wasn't smart enough to use this to his advantage.

2) If you have other kids it is not fair for your attention to them to suffer because you can only ever thing about your DD's issues.  

From the time my brother started having issues until my mom died there wasn't a single conversation that didn't revolve around him and his needs.  In college I only ever got calls from mom to tell me about some horrific thing that happened to my brother such as him getting a girl pregnant at age 16, him dropping out of school, him going to jail for things, etc. etc.  As soon as I could I escaped the situation.  I wouldn't go home for visits, and I had barely seen my mom in the 5 years before she died.  I sometimes regret that I didn't try harder to have a relationship with my mom, but for me I just couldn't take the emotional craziness.  The way my brother hurt my mom hurt me, and there was no helping her to see anything but him being the best of her 4 kids.  And I don't think I'll ever forgive my brother.  He constantly stole from me and everyone else in the family, and at the lowest point he got into a fight with my mom and ran us into a bathroom where he was outside tearing up my mom's house and claiming to have a gun.  The bottom line is I don't care if the drugs made him do it, I had to live with years of dysfunction and abuse because of him.  I will never have a relationship with him because of that. 

If you need to vent do it here, not with other children, and by all means get a counselor for yourself too.  This is going to be hard on you and your marriage.  Counseling will help you set boundaries and approach things as rationally as possible.  The more this takes over your life the easier it will be to make emotional decisions that might not be in the best interest of anyone.

3) Don't enable.  Allowing someone to live in your house while they use is enabling them.  I believe in second chances so I absolutely think you should make counseling a condition of her continuing to be in your house.  Like someone else said, lock up anything she could sell for drugs, don't give her money.  If the car needs gas- you go fill it up.  If she needs food to eat at school she gets a sandwich not 5 bucks.  And you let her know if she messes up she is out of the house.  If she is showing positive behavior you can help her with school, but make it clear that this is a one time thing.  She must know that she can't go through cycles of using and being clean for years on end.  She gets one do over and that is it.

If you can convince her to get on birth control please do so.  My brother used his kids as a way to get back in my moms house and get money from her.  She couldn't say no where the grandkids were involved, but it turned out she was fully financially support a baby and two adults paying for everything.  All he had to do was say he needed money for something for the baby and he got it.  If it is hard to think about your DD suffering just know that if she gets pregnant it will be worse.  Best thing for her to be able to move on from this scummy boyfriend is to make sure she doesn't get tied to him for 18 years.  Counseling needs to help her address why her self esteem is so low she is with someone like that in the first place.  And that is likely an issue that makes her susceptible to drug use too.  So hopefully mental health help will help with both problems at once.

Good luck to your family.  This is going to be an incredibly difficult time.  Take care of yourself as best you can right now. 

[Shooby]

That is very upsetting and distressing. Seeing your kid make bad choices is very hard. What is her response to you? Does she realize that she is doing things that can blow up her future?  Does she seem receptive to getting some help?  I would schedule a counseling session and see if she is at least willing to take one step forward. That is where I would start.  And, sounds like you are doing that.

  I would not give her any spending money.  No job, no money, oh well.  Yes, she has room and board right now.  Lack of money often prevents people from going too far as well.

  However, if she persists, then there is no way I would continue to fund college with the likelihood that she is going to flunk out if she is going to down that road.  Part of me paying for college is demonstrating respect for that gift and responsibility.


  But, take heart, I think she can get through this.  All of us have made mistakes in life along the way and here we all still stand.  You raised her right.  At some point she is going to take a step back and realize where this all heading.

[luckyme]

Thank you all for the responses.  

In her sober moments, I told her about Spice, addiction, where this path will inevitably lead.  At this age, they all think they know it all and it isn't a problem, but I am hoping it will get through to her.  

I told her no drugs in my house or car, open bedroom door or door comes off, same w/ bathroom.  No car just to go somewhere & not if she's been smoking.  I will drive her.  She is so close to getting her degree; this semester, then clinicals, then taking the exams.  She is at a crossroads.  She continues down this path, it will not end well.  She was so f'd up, that is not something she will be able to hide.  The program directors are going to know something is wrong, so she needs to stop NOW.

If she continues to use Spice, then she will need to move out, though I don't want that for her.  We will work with her & help her, but it has to stop.  If not, I told her I will gladly drive her somewhere, so she needs to think about somewhere else to go. She already has a HS friend living on the streets, so she "knows" how bad things can get.  

You have those sweet little babies, and never, ever, think this is where they will end up.  

[Angel!]

First, if you see her high on spice again, then I would videotape her & show it to her later when she is sober. I can tell you that they have no idea what it does to them. They need to see it for it to really hit home. It still may not matter, but I am willing to bet she has no idea how she appears when she is high. Ex use to think he was fine & I couldn't tell, when in reality he often could barely speak & would be crazy confused.

Second, spice is a horrible, horrible drug. Ex OD'ed on it at least twice - he had seizures & was hospitalized.  It messes you up really bad & it very unpredictable. Sometimes he would be unable to speak or walk, other times he was crazy paranoid & thought people were trying to get him. Worse, it is unbelievably addictive. Really hard to quit.  It also can cause long-term brain damage.  You could have her read about the drug.  But it may not help, it apparently gives such a good high, they don't care.

I would tell her she needs rehab & counseling ASAP. I wouldn't set the boundary of "not in my house", I would make it "you get clean or you get out". Nothing good will come of you enabling her by giving her a place to live if she isn't willing to get off the drug. It is addictive enough that if makes even good people willing to lie & steal to keep using.

I would get yourself counseling & read "Codependent No More".

I'm so sorry. Odds are this is going to be a long road & not easy. I hope she sees the bad choices she is making & is willing to seek help.  If she isn't, then you need to start distancing yourself because you can't save her if she isn't interested in being helped. 

[Angel!]

Also, they can test for spice. It is a different drug test and more expensive than other drug tests. I don't know if it really covers all varieties since the drug keeps being made with different ingredients.

But, you could do some research and see if there is anyone near you that does the test. You could make passing tests twice weekly part of what she needs to do to continue living with you. That way you know she is clean and not just hiding it.

[Deleted]

I'm really sorry. My only advice is to get in touch with some support groups while you are going through this with your daughter.
Addicts seem to love to take everyone down with them. Don't let that happen to you.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I would make it "you get clean or you get out".

DH knows if he uses again his butt is on the curb. . period.  Telling her "not in my house" is going to translate to "I can still get high as long as I am not stupid enough to get caught in mom's house".  She'll go somewhere else to get her buzz then come home.    Addicts are not stupid they know very well how to exploit loopholes to keep life as they are accustomed to.

[mmhmm]

Oct 7, 2015 10:24:51 GMT -5 luckyme said:

Thank you all for the responses.  

In her sober moments, I told her about Spice, addiction, where this path will inevitably lead.  At this age, they all think they know it all and it isn't a problem, but I am hoping it will get through to her.  

I told her no drugs in my house or car, open bedroom door or door comes off, same w/ bathroom.  No car just to go somewhere & not if she's been smoking.  I will drive her.  She is so close to getting her degree; this semester, then clinicals, then taking the exams.  She is at a crossroads.  She continues down this path, it will not end well.  She was so f'd up, that is not something she will be able to hide.  The program directors are going to know something is wrong, so she needs to stop NOW.

If she continues to use Spice, then she will need to move out, though I don't want that for her.  We will work with her & help her, but it has to stop.  If not, I told her I will gladly drive her somewhere, so she needs to think about somewhere else to go. She already has a HS friend living on the streets, so she "knows" how bad things can get.  

You have those sweet little babies, and never, ever, think this is where they will end up.  

Whoa! You mentioned clinicals. Is she studying to be a nurse? If she is, she's not going to get away with using. Hospitals are well aware of this stuff and are able to test for it. Because it screws up your thinking and can have lasting effects, she WILL get caught. Healthcare is not at all interested in having impaired personnel caring for patients. She'd best realize she's going to be throwing away all she's worked for with regard to a career if she continues on her current path.

So sad. I sure hope she'll listen to you and I definitely support those who advise you to get help for yourself. You're going to need it!

[midjd]

Oct 7, 2015 12:01:53 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Also, they can test for spice. It is a different drug test and more expensive than other drug tests. I don't know if it really covers all varieties since the drug keeps being made with different ingredients.

But, you could do some research and see if there is anyone near you that does the test. You could make passing tests twice weekly part of what she needs to do to continue living with you. That way you know she is clean and not just hiding it.

 

My mom works at a staffing agency and that's one of the drugs they routinely test for if someone is involved in a work accident. She says hardly anyone tests positive for marijuana anymore, it's always spice or Rx meds.  

I think requiring regular, random drug tests while she's still living at home and turning things around seems fair. Also agree with the "no use, period" vs. "not in the house." From what I've observed of its use IRL, spice is as addictive and damaging as heroin, so I don't think it's a situation in which occasional recreational use is even possible.

Luckyme, I'm sorry you're going through this, and I wish you strength for the road ahead.

[Deleted]

Oct 7, 2015 12:19:10 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I would make it "you get clean or you get out".

DH knows if he uses again his butt is on the curb. . period.  Telling her "not in my house" is going to translate to "I can still get high as long as I am not stupid enough to get caught in mom's house".  She'll go somewhere else to get her buzz then come home.    Addicts are not stupid they know very well how to exploit loopholes to keep life as they are accustomed to.

Yeah.  I remember setting the ultimatum of no getting high in our house.  He went to the barn.  I expanded the ultimatum to the boundaries of the property.  He stopped along the road on the drive home.  No being at the house high translated to do it at work, or go to friends and not come back for a couple days at a time...

[Angel!]

Oct 7, 2015 12:37:45 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 7, 2015 12:19:10 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I would make it "you get clean or you get out".

DH knows if he uses again his butt is on the curb. . period.  Telling her "not in my house" is going to translate to "I can still get high as long as I am not stupid enough to get caught in mom's house".  She'll go somewhere else to get her buzz then come home.    Addicts are not stupid they know very well how to exploit loopholes to keep life as they are accustomed to.

Yeah.  I remember setting the ultimatum of no getting high in our house.  He went to the barn.  I expanded the ultimatum to the boundaries of the property.  He stopped along the road on the drive home.  No being at the house high translated to do it at work, or go to friends and not come back for a couple days at a time...

Yep, went through the same thing. I can't stress enough how bad this drug is. Don't treat this like you would if you caught her smoking marijuana. This drug is far, far worse.

[souldoubt]

Sorry to hear it but I would give her an ultimatum and stand by it.  There was another thread in the last week where someone mentioned whether or not you can force a young adult to get psychiatric help and I mentioned 2 guys I've known for 20+ years.  Both are now in their early 30's, fully supported by their parents, going nowhere in life, not working (one definitely isn't, the other may be but he constantly loses jobs because he has a terrible attitude) and have alcohol/drug/psychiatric issues that have never been properly dealt with.  The one thing both have in common is that their parents made excuses for them, bailed them out and never took a hard stance.  When they were your daughters age their parents thought "they'll grow out of it" but they're now adults who failed to launch and are no more closer to doing so than they were 10 years ago.  

Also as mmhmm said if by clinicals you mean being a nurse your daughter isn't going to be taking a simple drug test that detects only a few things they will find out if she's on anything she shouldn't be.  I believe mmhmm is a former nurse and I speak from secondhand experience with a sister in law and friends who are all nurses or in the medical field.  Regardless counting on getting a job because you expect your future employer won't have you take a drug test that tests for certain things is playing Russian roulette.     

Good luck.

[Jake 48]

luckyme,
First off my heart goes out to you . DW and I have been down this road w/ DSD. They have to want to help themselves, if you give any ultimatums you got to follow through on them. Be prepared for her taking off and cutting off contact, we went through this for  a year and a half with her. DSD went through rehab 3x before she smartened up. She has been sober / clean for 4 yrs now. This can be a long rocky road. Feel free to PM me if you want more info

Prayers for you
Jake