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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 22:08:46 GMT -5
parents should be around their kids. If he wants to be around his and is trying then he should be allowed. You had kids with him. People have to pay the price for choices they make. If he is dangerous or something, then that changes things. But if he is meeting up at Chuckie Cheese and calling then I think you owe it to your kids to let them be together. My opinion for what it is worth. Good luck. Angel's ex has a long history of being an abusive, manipulative dick. If he really wants to make amends he can go to court and prove he's changed his ways.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 30, 2015 22:16:38 GMT -5
parents should be around their kids. If he wants to be around his and is trying then he should be allowed. You had kids with him. People have to pay the price for choices they make. If he is dangerous or something, then that changes things. But if he is meeting up at Chuckie Cheese and calling then I think you owe it to your kids to let them be together. My opinion for what it is worth. Good luck. See, this is why I doubt myself. Not because of you specifically, but I don't disagree with what you said. And he is trying, although I don't believe he is trying for the kid's sake. So part of me feels guilty for kicking him down when he is making an effort. But, then it would be the kids paying the price for my choices, not just me. I am 99% certain he will disappear on them again like he has done so many times before. He ran to Texas to avoid a dui charge. He stopped speaking to them for 3 months because he was mad at me. And he isn't getting treatment for the alcoholism or mental health issues. There is no reason to believe this time is any different than the other time he got his life semi put together for a short time. It always eventually crashes down and the kids will pay the price.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 30, 2015 22:30:09 GMT -5
Angel, I wish I remembered where that really good post SDG had was. He made a great argument that a bad dad was much worse for a child than no dad or an absent one.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 1, 2015 5:55:36 GMT -5
Maybe I'm asking a stupid question. As I'm thinking about the situation and responding to questions I'm wondering why this is hard for me. A combination of fear and guilt I think. I am afraid of him and I hate, hate, hate that he moved back. But, I feel guilty about cutting him out of the kids lives if he is making an honest effort and because they don't understand any of it. And I'm afraid 4 years down the line some judge will tear me apart for not allowing visits for years and give him joint custody. But if you take all those emotions out of it, I truly believe the kids are better off without him having a major role in their lives. And I think setting a precedent for regular visitation is also a bad idea because that could also set him up for joint custody. You're not asking a stupid question. But you are asking the same question over and over again in multiple threads over the past few years.
So if you really need an "answer", the answer that the general board is giving you isn't helping and it's time to get some professional advice. Call that lawyer and get her opinion. Or if it's moral support, that's OK, but it would be great if you also had some of that in your real life. Any way to build a little more of a support network in person?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 6:17:59 GMT -5
If it's votes your looking for, I'll cast mine with the, this has nothing to do with the kids it's abouts manipulating you, bad parents can be worse than no parents and IF he wanted to prove himself through therapy, treatment, accepting responsibility for his own past behaviors and the courts.. He can. His not doing so is NOT your responsibility.
Did you see a counselor when this all went down?
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Oct 1, 2015 6:44:18 GMT -5
parents should be around their kids. If he wants to be around his and is trying then he should be allowed. You had kids with him. People have to pay the price for choices they make. If he is dangerous or something, then that changes things. But if he is meeting up at Chuckie Cheese and calling then I think you owe it to your kids to let them be together. My opinion for what it is worth. Good luck. See, this is why I doubt myself. Not because of you specifically, but I don't disagree with what you said. And he is trying, although I don't believe he is trying for the kid's sake. So part of me feels guilty for kicking him down when he is making an effort. But, then it would be the kids paying the price for my choices, not just me. I am 99% certain he will disappear on them again like he has done so many times before. He ran to Texas to avoid a dui charge. He stopped speaking to them for 3 months because he was mad at me. And he isn't getting treatment for the alcoholism or mental health issues. There is no reason to believe this time is any different than the other time he got his life semi put together for a short time. It always eventually crashes down and the kids will pay the price. I could be mixing up posters, but didn't this guy put your kids' lives at risk by physically attacking you while you were driving them in a car? Did he terrorize them with outbursts of rage while breaking a bunch of stuff in the house? If he hasn't gotten any treatment, what would prevent the normal escalation of this behavior? This generally doesn't get milder or even stay the same without treatment, it typically escalates.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 1, 2015 7:13:33 GMT -5
You got it Angel. We will provide you with all the moral support (and sadly, been there, done that stories) until the cows come home.
And Angel, if there is one person you need to be able to stand up to, it's him. Because your kids can't. You have go to do that for them, until they're able to decide what to do about him themselves.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 1, 2015 7:32:45 GMT -5
Are you wanting to get back with him? Because it seems that you're bending over backwards to be amenable for what reason? The kids? Not a good reason. My ex used our kids, too, and it royally F'd with them. But I let him because of every bad reason under the sun. Hell no! I in no way want back together. I have basically cut off contact except when it comes to the kids. It is just a combination of the factors I mentioned before and the fact I am just way too nice of a person. Too nice probably isn't the right term....I'm really bad at saying no, being confrontational, or doing anything that I think will hurt someone's feelings. Believe me, I DO understand it and because I do, I also think there can be other reasons. You aren't doing your kids any favors but making things easier for yourself. The kids are an easy excuse for not wanting to be the "bad guy."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 7:42:45 GMT -5
You've cut off all contact but for the kids. And now he calls 'the kids' all the time.... It's not about the kids.
Some professional help might assist with the building of boundaries. We are always here for you! But sometimes we all need more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 7:52:25 GMT -5
Ok, I've responded to his emailing requesting another visit: It was much longer, but I cut it way down. No reason to rehash the past or spend a lot of time justifying my decision to him. I still may have said more than needed. I ignored where he asked me if we could start talking again. I didn't address the phone calls yet. I figure I will see what the lawyer said regarding phone contact first and then address that. I think this email was very good. I have to say, in my situation, the HARDEST time by far was when we were doing supervised visitation and I was the supervisor...which is basically what you're doing now. It was emotionally exhausting for me and so incredibly stressful. I was also high risk for taking him back. Going to unsupervised helped me a lot, but since that's not on the table for him at this point, and you have the court docs saying no parenting time, I'd cut off the visits entirely or at the very least get someone else to meet him with the kids and not you. I do think this is more about getting you to take care of him again than it is about him wanting to take care of his kids.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 7:59:40 GMT -5
I obviously missed the end of the first page! I too like the email. To the point. I think you got this. We are happy to back up the decision. The dissenting opinion was one that did not understand your specific situation. You are doing what is right!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2015 8:03:48 GMT -5
See, this is why I doubt myself. Not because of you specifically, but I don't disagree with what you said. And he is trying, although I don't believe he is trying for the kid's sake
As someone else said you're the only sane parent right now. You owe it to your kids to stay that way. If he wants to see the kids as badly as he claims and wants to make amends as badly as he claims then he should be willing to walk thru fire to prove himself worthy given his history.
The fact that he now is saying he won't see the kids b/c you refused his time table shows how little priority the kids actually are. You'd think if he wants to be in their lives that bad he'd work with your schedule.
You don't sound like you are being unreasonable at all to me, it sounds like you are trying while doing your best to keep yourself/the kids safe.
First step is meet with a lawyer and make sure visitation/custody rules are written in stone. If he wants it changed that badly he can go to court and petition, but we know he won't b/c that pesky warrant will come back to bite him in the ass.
Then next step is if he wants to be a part of the kids lives he needs to clean up his act. Set clear boundaries and hold him to them.
I can't tell you what the kids will think years down the line. It could go south no matter what decision you make. Since your children are minors my opinion is that YOU get to make the decision with little vote from the children. You are the one that is aware of what the consequences can be if you welcome him back into your lives with open arms, they are too little to understand that all they know is he is "daddy". It's your job as the sane parent to unfortunately be the "bad guy" at this time.
I think if your ex keeps up his behavior as the children get older in time they will understand better what is going on and why you make the decision you do.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 1, 2015 8:52:28 GMT -5
I love reading hickle's opinions. They aren't just mimics of what everyone else is saying and they make me think. I disagree with him this time, tho. Not all parents should be with their kids. Of course it's best if the situation warrants it, but some parents are just bad for their kids and that's that. Hickle is right in that we make choices and we have to live with them, however, I'm a poster child for marrying someone who was very good at hiding his true self. There are occasions where it's not just a case of being a dumbass - some people are very good at being who you want them to be until they have you in a situation you can't easily escape from.
In the case of visitation, it isn't about you and it isn't about him. It's about the kids. Kids don't always know what's good for them and that's why they have parents and it appears you are the one who has to look out for their best interests. If you truly believe that them being with their father is not good for them - you have to go with your gut. I've met a number of women who are just bitter and vengeful and not acting in the best interests of their kids - but I don't think that's you. If your instincts are telling you it's a bad idea, it probably is. I'm sure you kids probably do want to see their dad. They'd probably want an elephant in the back yard, too, if you asked them. It's your job to determine if they actually need what they want and if what they want is what is good for them.
Now...his contact with you IS about you. If he's done the things posters here have outlined, I wouldn't even be in the same room with him. I'd find a family member I could trust to take the kids to Chucky Cheese to meet with him if that's what you decide is the right thing to do. I'm very glad that you've taken your mom with you up to this point. As someone said, if he wanted to be with his kids, he'd seek visitation. If his warrant is stopping him, he's more concerned with himself than he is with them. If, on the off chance, he has turned over a new leaf, he can prove it to the Court.
I'm not going to be a rah-rah girl and be as certain as the rest because I think that's telling you what you want to hear and not what you need to hear. If this guy has done the things posted here, he is dangerous. Those guys don't normally get better - they get worse. There are exceptions but no way I'd chance it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:21:48 GMT -5
parents should be around their kids. If he wants to be around his and is trying then he should be allowed. You had kids with him. People have to pay the price for choices they make. If he is dangerous or something, then that changes things. But if he is meeting up at Chuckie Cheese and calling then I think you owe it to your kids to let them be together. My opinion for what it is worth. Good luck. See, this is why I doubt myself. Not because of you specifically, but I don't disagree with what you said. And he is trying, although I don't believe he is trying for the kid's sake. So part of me feels guilty for kicking him down when he is making an effort. But, then it would be the kids paying the price for my choices, not just me. I am 99% certain he will disappear on them again like he has done so many times before. He ran to Texas to avoid a dui charge. He stopped speaking to them for 3 months because he was mad at me. And he isn't getting treatment for the alcoholism or mental health issues. There is no reason to believe this time is any different than the other time he got his life semi put together for a short time. It always eventually crashes down and the kids will pay the price. My dad was an abusive alcoholic. I would have been better off not seeing him, but that was because of the abuse. If the man is not drunk around them and does not abuse them, then I think the kids have a right to see him and know him. He is their father for better or worse. I think kids have a right to know their parents. You shielding them does not make them not have an acoholic parent, it makes them have an absent alcoholic parent. Of course my view changes if he is showing up drunk or physically abuses them. I remember when I was about 11 my dad trying to teach me to drive a standard at 3 in the morning because he was too drunk to drive. Alcoholic parents suck so you should protect them but he is still the dad and I would have wanted to know my dad, especially if not having to be around him drunk. That is just all my opinioin for what it is worth. eta: My dad did much worse when he was drunk, but you are not accusing you ex of any of that. If I understand you are just accusing him of being a jerk. I know that can hurt, but so could not knowing a father, however he is.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 1, 2015 9:29:41 GMT -5
May I ask you, hickle, if you feel that knowing your dad was worth the life-long impact he had on your life? If you say "yes", I completely understand as nobody can say but you. If you had the choice and could have a redo, would you have it the same way? Or would you have had him out of your life and been minus the suffering he caused you? Cause those things don't ever go away and you know that.
If it's too personal, just say so. I don't mean to pry. I really am wondering because I had an awesome dad and that can make a person sort of ignorant about those who did not have as easy a time as I did.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:40:38 GMT -5
See, this is why I doubt myself. Not because of you specifically, but I don't disagree with what you said. And he is trying, although I don't believe he is trying for the kid's sake. So part of me feels guilty for kicking him down when he is making an effort. But, then it would be the kids paying the price for my choices, not just me. I am 99% certain he will disappear on them again like he has done so many times before. He ran to Texas to avoid a dui charge. He stopped speaking to them for 3 months because he was mad at me. And he isn't getting treatment for the alcoholism or mental health issues. There is no reason to believe this time is any different than the other time he got his life semi put together for a short time. It always eventually crashes down and the kids will pay the price. My dad was an abusive alcoholic. I would have been better off not seeing him, but that was because of the abuse. If the man is not drunk around them and does not abuse them, then I think the kids have a right to see him and know him. He is their father for better or worse. I think kids have a right to know their parents. You shielding them does not make them not have an acoholic parent, it makes them have an absent alcoholic parent. Of course my view changes if he is showing up drunk or physically abuses them. I remember when I was about 11 my dad trying to teach me to drive a standard at 3 in the morning because he was too drunk to drive. Alcoholic parents suck so you should protect them but he is still the dad and I would have wanted to know my dad, especially if not having to be around him drunk. That is just all my opinioin for what it is worth. eta: My dad did much worse when he was drunk, but you are not accusing you ex of any of that. If I understand you are just accusing him of being a jerk. I know that can hurt, but so could not knowing a father, however he is. Meh. I think the whole biological parent thing is overrated. Maybe it's because I'm from a family where there are a lot of adopted kids or maybe it's because my own Dad pretty much checked out of my life until I was closer to 30 and I didn't really care, but they're not necessarily "special" because they donated your genetic material in a drunken stupor one night (this applies to eggs as well as sperm!). The Parent part is different, and I agree that PARENTS should be around their kids. But, he's never been one. Angel's kids only have one parent. The problem that comes from these occasional meetings is he gets the chance to be the super dad. He'll be on his best behavior, he'll stay sober for that hour, maybe bring gifts and give in to whatever the kids want. They'll think he's awesome. They'll want to spend more time with him. Angel will be constantly put in the position of saying no and the kids will think she's the bad guy and Dad is being treated unfairly. Again, if he really wants to fix this and have a relationship with his kids he can.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:41:22 GMT -5
May I ask you, hickle, if you feel that knowing your dad was worth the life-long impact he had on your life? If you say "yes", I completely understand as nobody can say but you. If you had the choice and could have a redo, would you have it the same way? Or would you have had him out of your life and been minus the suffering he caused you? Cause those things don't ever go away and you know that.
If it's too personal, just say so. I don't mean to pry. I really am wondering because I had an awesome dad and that can make a person sort of ignorant about those who did not have as easy a time as I did. If I had the choice he would not have been part of my life. I will get flack for saying this considering some of the terrible things he did, but I think he was a good man who loved his children who had mental problems, sex abuse problems from his youth and alcoholism. I had a mother who loved me very much but depended on religion probably a bit too much and did not see what she could have if she had looked. I do not think Angel is saying her ex does that though. There is a difference in my view between a bad parent who is basically just selfish and a parent who does terrible things. If you takeout the abuse and just leave the drunkeness I would want to have known my dad, with the abuse, I would rather have never known him. I do not think any one should do what I say, but should do what they think best. I just post my views and experiences more for my sake and just to say them.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Oct 1, 2015 9:41:58 GMT -5
Here's my opinion:
Your ex is acting like a spoiled child. What do you do with spoiled children? you set limits. I think you mentioned 1 call a week between certain times. Stick to that--no deviation. No other visits (other than birthdays, maybe, since that's been established, I guess) until a very long time passes that shows that he can even stick to the phone calls. Kids need consistency--not to be jerked around all of the time. They can expect A, he sticks to it and follows through = good. If not = bad. That's it. He doesn't deserve anything more if he can't even perform that simple task.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:51:13 GMT -5
I do not think Angel is saying her ex does that though. There is a difference in my view between a bad parent who is basically just selfish and a parent who does terrible things. Not in this post. There is a lot of bad history though. Physical and verbal abuse and if I remember correctly, it wasn't just against Angel. The courts didn't say "no parenting time" for no reason.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2015 9:51:47 GMT -5
I do not think Angel is saying her ex does that though. There is a difference in my view between a bad parent who is basically just selfish and a parent who does terrible things.
Angel has been on the boards for a LONG time. Her ex has a long history of physically abusing her and trouble with the law. He also has severe mental issues and substance abuse issues.
He also has a history of emotional abuse/manipulation. He threatens to kill himself when he doesn't get his way and has also made references to stalking her and the children.
She just doesn't rehash all of that in every thread she starts.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2015 9:54:27 GMT -5
Hickle, do you not think it is mental abuse to not speak to your kids for 3 months because you want to manipulate them like a toddler would? From what you write you believe your Dad loved you but had demons like alcohol. Do you really support knowing a parent who doesn't really love you? Is only around to jerk your primary parent around?
I think it could give the kids self esteem issues for life, or at least many years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:56:50 GMT -5
That is the part I completely disagree with. It is all about what he does to satisfy what you want and nothing to do with yours and his children. You are not interviewing someone to be a parent. You already made that choice. I am not saying you definitely should let him see the children, but I am saying you are wrong if you do that to punish him for being a jerk.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 9:57:35 GMT -5
I do not think Angel is saying her ex does that though. There is a difference in my view between a bad parent who is basically just selfish and a parent who does terrible things.
Angel has been on the boards for a LONG time. Her ex has a long history of physically abusing her and trouble with the law. He also has severe mental issues and substance abuse issues.
He also has a history of emotional abuse/manipulation. He threatens to kill himself when he doesn't get his way and has also made references to stalking her and the children.
She just doesn't rehash all of that in every thread she starts.
Of course those facts change things. Best wishes to all involved.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 10:00:53 GMT -5
Hickle, do you not think it is mental abuse to not speak to your kids for 3 months because you want to manipulate them like a toddler would? From what you write you believe your Dad loved you but had demons like alcohol. Do you really support knowing a parent who doesn't really love you? Is only around to jerk your primary parent around?
I think it could give the kids self esteem issues for life, or at least many years. I think the situation sucks. Apparently it sucks more then I understood at first. I thought the issue was taking her children to a pizza place to meet the dad.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 1, 2015 10:02:58 GMT -5
Apparently it sucks more then I understood at first. I thought the issue was taking her children to a pizza place to meet the dad.
Yeah if you don't know the history behind it all it's easy to misinterpret. I also know the general assumption is YM is always quick to recommend divorce or sticking it to your ex.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 1, 2015 10:06:34 GMT -5
That is the part I completely disagree with. It is all about what he does to satisfy what you want and nothing to do with yours and his children. You are not interviewing someone to be a parent. You already made that choice. I am not saying you definitely should let him see the children, but I am saying you are wrong if you do that to punish him for being a jerk. Angel's said that at least one of the kids has severe behavior issues after contact with Dad. She's not punishing him, she's trying to protect her kids. And I'm sorry but I agree that if he wants to be a parent, he needs to prove himself to Angel and the kids. Parents are supposed to be reliable, steady and most of all, parents are supposed to be there for their kids. That doesn't mean I get to vanish from their lives and reappear on an irregular basis, then use them to jerk their other parent around and try to make it all about me. I don't much care of Angel's ex is a jerk to her (sorry Angel); she's an adult and can take care of herself. I care that he's being a jerk to the kids. They're going to get enough flak just from life, they don't need one of the 2 people that supposed to be there for them screwing around with them too. And we're talking kids under the age of 8, I think.
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sbcalimom
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Post by sbcalimom on Oct 1, 2015 10:26:16 GMT -5
Angel! - I recently saw a family law attorney because I'm in the midst of filing for divorce. We don't have any of the issues you have as he's actually a decent guy and a pretty good dad. One of the things we discussed was scheduling phone calls and visits when he's abroad for extended periods of time and I have full custody. She said it was not at all unreasonable for me to request 15 days notice for a visit if he's returning to the states and at least 72 hours notice to schedule a phone call. And, that I don't have to agree to daily or even several times a week calls if it's to cumbersome for me and the kids. So that said, I think it's more than acceptable for you to limit times that your ex can call the kids to what's convenient. I wouldn't even allow every day between 6-7 because that let's him interrupt your evening every day if he wants. I'd give him 1 or 2 days a week and maybe 1 time on the weekend to call. And then, as others have suggested go ahead and reach out to a lawyer to get clarification on exactly what your options are for the future. We're always here for moral support but getting legal advice and possibly talking through some of the issues with a counselor might help you cope with his manipulation tactics easier.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 10:29:12 GMT -5
Angel! - I recently saw a family law attorney because I'm in the midst of filing for divorce. We don't have any of the issues you have as he's actually a decent guy and a pretty good dad. One of the things we discussed was scheduling phone calls and visits when he's abroad for extended periods of time and I have full custody. She said it was not at all unreasonable for me to request 15 days notice for a visit if he's returning to the states and at least 72 hours notice to schedule a phone call. And, that I don't have to agree to daily or even several times a week calls if it's to cumbersome for me and the kids. So that said, I think it's more than acceptable for you to limit times that your ex can call the kids to what's convenient. I wouldn't even allow every day between 6-7 because that let's him interrupt your evening every day if he wants. I'd give him 1 or 2 days a week and maybe 1 time on the weekend to call. And then, as others have suggested go ahead and reach out to a lawyer to get clarification on exactly what your options are for the future. We're always here for moral support but getting legal advice and possibly talking through some of the issues with a counselor might help you cope with his manipulation tactics easier. That is a horrible way to treat a decent guy and a pretty good dad. I hope you fired that attorney, what an asshole. eta: That is a real shit thing to do or want. What if the dad has something good happen and wants to share with his kid? He has to make an appointment to call? Your attorney is an asshole to suggest any such thing. Why would you pass on such an anti- child anti - parent advice? A good guy and a good dad, and you want to make it harder for him to parent and you want to make more distance between him and his kids. Is that the way you would want to be treated? Is that the way you would have wanted to be treated as a child?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2015 10:38:10 GMT -5
You would fire an attorney based on advice you do not have to take? Phone calls might be not that reasonable depending on the time difference between the countries. Maybe it has nothing to do with Dad, but what might work in the kid's daily lives?
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Deleted
Joined: Sept 29, 2024 8:18:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 10:39:47 GMT -5
You would fire an attorney based on advice you do not have to take? Phone calls might be not that reasonable depending on the time difference between the countries. Maybe it has nothing to do with Dad, but what might work in the kid's daily lives? Damn right I would fire an attorney who was telling me it was okay to fuck over my kids if I wanted to fuck over my ex. And that is what he is saying.
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