The rough and tumble world of middle school sports

[t-dog]

Ugh - Height is NOT an indication of skill!

My DS did not make the second round of cuts on the basketball team. He's crushed and learning a hard lesson that sometimes all the skill in the world isn't enough. He's not the next coming of Michael Jordan, but he is a damn good baller.  Several of his friends that are 8 or more inches taller than him (he's all of 4'7") made the cuts even though he can outplay them every damn play. No, he's not going to dunk on them and he knows it, but he has a wicked 3-point shot that more often then not finds the bottom of the net.

Going to be a long night....

[TheOtherMe]

Height isn't an indication of skill.  My oldest nephew was a quick point guard and a good ball handler at that age.  He learned the same hard lesson, so now he plays FIFA.

[t-dog]

My boy plays anything involving a ball. He's a great baseball player, was the top scorer (and far and away the shortest) on his basketball team last season, and is a leading scorer (and again by far the smallest player) on his soccer team.

I guess what burns me is that the coach is a small Asian woman - you would think that she would be more tuned in to the idea that skill is more important than height. This is after all MIDDLE SCHOOL not the nba.

[TheOtherMe]

Exactly.  All three of my nephews gave up on basketball in middle school.  They played soccer longer.  The youngest was quite good and played all the way through high school.

The youngest one wants to coach soccer.  He's been an assistant coach for several years while in college.  He also officiates.  This past spring, he felt like the new coach mistreated the players, so he quit.  When he quit, he told the athletic director the reason why.  He said he didn't want it coming back on him that he knew about the mistreatment and did nothing about it.

Most likely none of this middle school kids will ever play in the NBA.

[giramomma]

That is such a bummer.

DS, for the most part, has had awesome coaches. DS's basketball coach is from such a good, amazing family. You totally just want to be like them. This dad ALWAYS finds something good to say to all the kids individually after their performance. And he plays all the kids, not just the superstar ones. And he also helps the kids improve and find their "talents."

This dad is also DS's football coach this year.

The only coach I didn't like was last summer's little league coach for DS. The coaching team, actually, was more concerned about getting their sons on the travel team than anything else. And the boys weren't extremely talented. Rather mediocre, actually.

My DS isn't good enough to get on a HS team. So I'm pleased that he is having this opportunity now. (At his school, he gets school sponsored sports in 5-8th grade.)

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

This is through the school? The majority of the schools around here have a no-cut policy. We just keep making enough teams until everyone gets to play at least a little bit. No, not everyone gets to play varsity, but we always find a spot for everyone. This is the policy of the schools that have ten kids per grade all the way through 300 kids per grade.


 I'm sorry he's going through that. Are there club sports he can participate in this season?

On the other side of it, I am currently coaching middle school volleyball. I will not coach again. I had taken a five year break after coaching several different sports for over a decade. I cannot do it anymore. It's just not fun. There's no way to make everyone happy. 

[techguy]

How did perform at the try outs?  Was he on top of his game during this?

[ArchietheDragon]

If he is short and very good he may be able to hustle people on the street for a little extra spending cash.

[tskeeter]

Sept 29, 2015 18:54:09 GMT -5 t-dog said:

My boy plays anything involving a ball. He's a great baseball player, was the top scorer (and far and away the shortest) on his basketball team last season, and is a leading scorer (and again by far the smallest player) on his soccer team.

I guess what burns me is that the coach is a small Asian woman - you would think that she would be more tuned in to the idea that skill is more important than height. This is after all MIDDLE SCHOOL not the nba.

I guess we admire in others the qualities that we don't see in ourselves.

[ohmomto2boys]

That is such a bummer.  
My brother was cut from the freshman basketball team and he was one of the taller kids.  He had very little skill and was super skinny.  He worked hard (lifted weights, went to camps) from freshman to sophmore year and made the team, by the time he was a senior - he was the starting center.  Still thin, but much stronger and had finally mastered the skill to go with his height.
I hope your son tries out again, kids can really change from one year to the next and maybe there will be a different coach who can see the skill your son has.

[t-dog]

techguy he did very well.  He nailed the free throws and sunk more than 1 three from a couple steps beyond the arc.  The conditioning days were no sweat for him but the bigger kids were left sucking wind.  I got several emails from parents telling me how well he did at tryouts the day I wasn't there.  So I can only surmise its because he is so much shorter than those left. 

As an example, a good buddy who is 8 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier did not get cut.  My boy can with a single juke blow past this kid and lay in nearly every time.  The taller boy is described by his own mother as "fast as cement." 

Thankfully he seems to be taking it somewhat in stride. He is already talking about trying out for soccer in the spring.

[souldoubt]

In middle school I was a pudgy kid so sports really weren't my thing.  I ended up trying out for the volleyball team because I enjoyed it and was actually pretty good.  I could out serve and was better than some of the kids who ended up making the team.  The coach was a real cool guy but most the kids who made it were the athletic kids who he coached in other sports so there was definitely some favoritism.  It sucked and I was definitely disappointed but when I got to high school it only got worse in some ways.  Obviously they want the best players on the team but the favoritism and how coaches treated certain players turned me off to sports completely.  One of my friends who wasn't one of the basketball team stars got injured during the summer program and the coaching staff left him sitting in front of the school because they left for a game.  Luckily a friends mom gave him a ride home but he literally couldn't walk and ended up laid up for the entire summer.        

[alabamagal]

Well you said your kid is no Michael Jordan, but Michael got cut from his high school team. He said it inspired him to work harder. He can either try to get better or give up and move on.

My kids went to a very small private school 40 kids per grade. Most teams took all who tried out. Basketball was one with real tryouts. My kids did football, cheerleading, baseball, tennis and soccer in high school (3 kids did some each). The only one who would have had a chance at a larger school was youngest in football.

DD joined tennis team as 9th grader when she never played before. She was #2 on her team which meant she played other teams #2. She got beat up pretty bad first year. Next year she was #1, by senior year she was pretty competitive in their small school league.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

He (not you) should calmly and pleasantly ask her for some feedback as to what he needs to work on for next year.

Hopefully, she has some legitimate answers about skills she saw missing during his tryout.

If not, then, you can pleasantly ask her by email.

Keep it light and collaborative. If she is likely to coach next year, you don't want to make her feel interrogated or criticized. Since it is a school-based team, one would reasonably expect that there should be an opportunity allowed for honest feedback (not often the case with private club teams).

Tryouts for anything -- sports, theater, music, etc. -- totally suck when it seems like making the team/cast/band is a no-brainer ( or that a kid at least should have a fair shot). Always seek feedback so your son can begin developing a relationship with the coach or figure out that it is (for whatever reason, good/bad/ugly) never going to happen.

[The Captain]

Sept 29, 2015 22:21:57 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

This is through the school? The majority of the schools around here have a no-cut policy. We just keep making enough teams until everyone gets to play at least a little bit. No, not everyone gets to play varsity, but we always find a spot for everyone. This is the policy of the schools that have ten kids per grade all the way through 300 kids per grade.


 I'm sorry he's going through that. Are there club sports he can participate in this season?

On the other side of it, I am currently coaching middle school volleyball. I will not coach again. I had taken a five year break after coaching several different sports for over a decade. I cannot do it anymore. It's just not fun. There's no way to make everyone happy. 

I wish.  DD's school has over 300 kids per grade.  They had 12 slots each for the two volleyball teams.  Over 80 girls tried out.  The only ones who made the cut were mostly the ones who played on traveling teams since 5th grade.  I'm shocked by how prevalent that is in our area.

Between all the boys and girls sports that the gyms have to be scheduled for, the league can't cover more than two teams per school.  At least that's what we are told.

It's a whole different world from what I grew up in. 

[justme]

How was the mix? Meaning if of 20 people they had 5 tall guys and everyone else your sons height they'll cut the team where they have more than enough to choose from.

I was tall and my skill really laid in defense and I didn't get cut.

But that sucks. Is there a non school team he could play on?

[Deleted]

T-Dog, is this a small town?

It is who you know with Jr. High sports in a small town, I made the team because only 12 people went out but never got to actually play in games in Jr High or Jr Varsity or my Junior year of Varsity because the coaches were all from the same group of friends who all had kids the same age.  I didn't play until my Senior year and only because they fired the coach and brought in an outsider.  I actually had an NAIA school come scout me my junior year based off what they witnessed at a basketball camp and I didn't play in the game! 

Now everyone thinks themselves or their kids should have played right?  Well yeah I should have, I went to major college basketball camps in the summer and usually made the all star teams.  I wasn't Michael Jordan or anything like that but did get offers to play D3 and NAIA.  I played in a lot of local leagues in my 20's but hung it up at 30 because it wasn't fun anymore and most of the guys still playing were dragging a knee up the court so I decided to hang it up with my health intact.

My advice would be to send him to some week long summer basketball camps because it sounds like he is really interested.  He may be stuck in the town you are in and the same players/coaches his entire time in school but can get away from it with those camps.

[t-dog]

Not a small town, I live in the capital of California. Small school however, only 120 total middle schoolers. There are 16 jerseys so that is the max number of kids they can take. Every single one of the 20-25 left on the tryout list for today is a minimum of 4 inches taller than my kid. Not to sound braggy on this one, but my kid can outrun every kid left trying out. I wish the school had more sports options, but with only 120 middle schoolers we have  basketball, soccer and golf as the options for boys.  Ok not totally correct, one of his buddies (his size but into parkour) trail blazed and is the first boy ever on the cheerleading squad this year. 

FYI - I did know that MJ was cut from his high school team but was trying to imply that I do realize my kid is not a basketball god. 

[t-dog]

justme that is just it - my kid was by far and away the smallest kid.  Of the nearly 40 who tried out maybe 4 were even remotely close to his height.  At least 20 were a minimum of 4 inches taller some much more than that. 

I had 7 kids from his class tell me yesterday when I picked him up that there was "no way he should have been cut, he's better than the kids that are left." 

This is one of those "life sucks and it isn't always fair" lessons. 

[hoops902]

Height isn't everything (says the guy who is 6'6") but as someone who regularly coaches basketball and picks up kids to play for tournament teams the fact that his friends who are worse made the team isn't necessarily a height issue.

Could it simply be a position issue? Yeah he's short, but guards are typically short. Ignore how he compares to kids 8 inches taller than him, they probably won't play the same position. If the best 20 players at a tryout are all guards, you can't just take them all because they're the best players, any more than you can fill a football team with 20 running backs but no linemen.

How does he stack up compared to the guards?

I also agree that he should ask for feedback...that will also likely be an indication as to what the issue was.  Maybe it's a coaching style, he shoots 3s and the coach doesn't run that style.  Also, figure out how the coaching tree works at your school. In some schools the middle school coach just runs the style of the HS coach either voluntarily or by force.  If that's the case, then figuring out what's valued in that system will help out long term.  If the coach just runs anything he wants, then figure out what the coach of the next grade up does by going to a few games, let him tailor his game to that.

Also keep in mind that a tryout (especially if 1 day) may not represent his full skill set.  Maybe the tryout was set up to test things 1, 2, and 3...and none of those were his strengths (i.e. did they even shoot 3s during tryouts?).

If he's really that good he can always join a tournament team if you want to pay for that.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Hoops said it better and more thoroughly than I did.

[t-dog]

Oct 1, 2015 11:52:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 29, 2015 18:37:58 GMT -5 t-dog said:

Ugh - Height is NOT an indication of skill!

No, but you can teach a 6'6" kid to dribble and dunk. You can't teach a 4'6" kid to grow. It sucks, but height is pretty important in some sports. Basketball is one of them. The kid might be a great shooter, but can he shoot over/through a kid that has a foot or more on him?

Never played much basketball, but I coached middle school volleyball. I had to cut/bench talented shorter kids to play more tall gangly girls in order to have some offense and defense at the net. It is what it is. I can teach a tall less coordinated girl to block/spike, I can't teach a shorter player to jump four feet in order to do the same.

Nope can't teach him to grow, but that isn't necessary when he can out run and outball handle the other kids.  He blew by I don't know how many of them during the process to get uncontested layups.  Doesn't matter how tall the defense is if you can get by them with speed and agility.

[souldoubt]

I think you're still somewhat ignoring Sum Dum Gai's point.  Your son blew by guys in a tryout who were unorganized and may not have been coached or taught much and most importantly weren't playing as a team.  I remember doing tryouts for basketball at the Boys and Girls club when I was maybe 9-10 and my friend was much better than me at the tryout.  He was smaller, quicker and more athletic but in game once the season started he wasn't as successful.  Uncontested layups are much less likely after kids have been coached and start playing defense.  As you said though in your other post the most important lesson for your son from this is that life isn't fair.

[t-dog]

Oct 1, 2015 9:07:12 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Height isn't everything (says the guy who is 6'6") but as someone who regularly coaches basketball and picks up kids to play for tournament teams the fact that his friends who are worse made the team isn't necessarily a height issue.

Could it simply be a position issue? Yeah he's short, but guards are typically short. Ignore how he compares to kids 8 inches taller than him, they probably won't play the same position. If the best 20 players at a tryout are all guards, you can't just take them all because they're the best players, any more than you can fill a football team with 20 running backs but no linemen.

How does he stack up compared to the guards?

I also agree that he should ask for feedback...that will also likely be an indication as to what the issue was.  Maybe it's a coaching style, he shoots 3s and the coach doesn't run that style.  Also, figure out how the coaching tree works at your school. In some schools the middle school coach just runs the style of the HS coach either voluntarily or by force.  If that's the case, then figuring out what's valued in that system will help out long term.  If the coach just runs anything he wants, then figure out what the coach of the next grade up does by going to a few games, let him tailor his game to that.

Also keep in mind that a tryout (especially if 1 day) may not represent his full skill set.  Maybe the tryout was set up to test things 1, 2, and 3...and none of those were his strengths (i.e. did they even shoot 3s during tryouts?).

If he's really that good he can always join a tournament team if you want to pay for that.

Hoops - it was 3 days of conditioning which he excelled at.  Never sucking wind while half the kids couldn't complete the number of laps across court and back in the required time.  After that was 2 days of actual tryouts until he was cut.  There was a final day of tryouts yesterday after the cuts.  The tryouts consisted of ball handling, free throws, threes and layups.  Boy did well even compared to the other guards who were 4 inches taller than him from what I have been told by parents of some of the kids who were not cut.  Its not just me that thinks he was cut due to height.   Final roster comes out today and I am betting its all the tallest kids.  Now mind you I am not discounting all the tall kids, some of them are legitimately good players but a good chunk of those left are legitimately not. 

My boy's buddy who is 8 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier will likely be a center - so no they can't be compared by position.  But that kid could not run 2 lengths of the court without having to stop and suck air.  He's terribly out of shape and is slow (he's the one whose mom said he is as fast as concrete).  The boy himself knows he is out of shape and has said as much at baseball games when running the 90 foot base path leaves him sucking wind. 

My boy still says he will go to the games and cheer the team on and will try out again next year, so he is being a good sport about the cut.  Coach will be the same woman next year - she has full authority to run the game as she wishes.  We aren't connected to a high school (its a K-8 school but only middle schoolers can tryout) so no one "up the ladder" so to speak.  Here's hoping this is his year for a growth spurt, but I doubt it as boys in this family tend not to shoot up until 9th grade.

[t-dog]

souldoubt you are ignoring the fact that the 8th graders who were on the team last year and trying out again for this years team were some of the kids he blew by. They ran plays from last years game to try out the "new" kids. Our school is small as is the neighborhood, so a lot of these kids have played against each other in a local league since Kindergarten. Yes, my boy has been playing organized basketball since kinder. 

[souldoubt]

Some of the kids he blew by but not an organized team.  They weren't first year players as you pointed out but if you take kids of equal skill and pitted a team against 5 guys thrown together the team is going to win 9 times out of 10.  Your son could learn and adapt like any player who plays with a team but his skills may not translate as well because of his height.  Small quicker players can definitely create on their own and yes get uncontested layups but that's not the same as running an offense, getting shots over guys who are 6 inches or more taller than you and so on.  The kid you mentioned who's 8 inches taller and 100 lbs heavier is going to be anchoring the middle.  He'll work on his conditioning but he won't be the first guy down the court likely will be the last but fast break points aren't how teams score most of their points.  You go down and set your offense up, run plays and have your bigs in the paint.          

I'm not going to change your opinion and I'm not trying to.  I'm sure your son is good but you're also his parent so you want the best for him and build him up more than anyone else.  In sports just like life there's favoritism, people get promoted/hired/kept on the team because of looks, height or who they know.  Since not everyone makes the team the coach is trying to put together the best team and in basketball height is important.  It's not the end all be all but as has been pointed out the kids who don't know how to defend and have poor conditioning can be taught and work on it while the kids who are short can't be made to grow.  Thankfully your son has a great attitude about it all. 

[t-dog]

Yes thankfully he does, but I also think it says something when parents of kids who are still in the tryout process comment on how they can't believe he was cut. Some of the players who were still trying out also commented that they couldn't believe they were still in the process while he was cut.

Hasn't changed his love for the game thankfully.

[t-dog]

He's good against tall athletic kids as well as dominating the wind suckers. he developed the outside shot to compensate for the height issue, blows past even the athletic tall kids and then as they run back to try to stick a hand in his face and block the shot he is already releasing and the shot goes up clean.  He learned that he couldn't always hold the ball against the faster athletic kids because they would reach over as he tried to lay in and block from behind, so now he gets just past them and shoots if they are quick and lays in if they are not.  

[t-dog]

He's played YMCA (found it boring after a time), parks and rec (a tad better but not much), church league, and this year trying Salvation Army.

[t-dog]

He's got soccer and baseball right now.  7 more soccer games and 2 more baseball until those seasons end.  Church league basketball starts in January.  He will age out after this season.