weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 24, 2015 17:36:49 GMT -5
This little douchecanoe won't be the first. After it was discovered that thalidomide was a good medication for multiple myeloma, the price skyrocketed, even though it cost about 6 cents a pill to make.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 24, 2015 17:41:46 GMT -5
his little douchecanoe won't be the first. After it was discovered that thalidomide was a good medication for multiple myeloma, the price skyrocketed, even though it cost about 6 cents a pill to make. You might want to pick another example. Technically they did people a favour.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 24, 2015 17:46:48 GMT -5
his little douchecanoe won't be the first. After it was discovered that thalidomide was a good medication for multiple myeloma, the price skyrocketed, even though it cost about 6 cents a pill to make. You might want to pick another example. Technically they did people a favour. Thalidomide is still in use. In addition to its use as a helper drug for dexamethsone used to treat multliple myeloma, it's also used to treat a skin condition associated with leprosy. It's not used on pregnant women.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 24, 2015 17:53:34 GMT -5
his little douchecanoe won't be the first. After it was discovered that thalidomide was a good medication for multiple myeloma, the price skyrocketed, even though it cost about 6 cents a pill to make. You might want to pick another example. Technically they did people a favour. How so? Do you really think they will be prescribing it to pregnant women?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 24, 2015 18:22:47 GMT -5
You might want to pick another example. Technically they did people a favour. How so? Do you really think they will be prescribing it to pregnant women? I was assuming the price hike you mentioned happened before they knew about the effects of thalidomide on pregnancy. So yes, that was the implication.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 24, 2015 18:23:36 GMT -5
You might want to pick another example. Technically they did people a favour. Thalidomide is still in use. In addition to its use as a helper drug for dexamethsone used to treat multliple myeloma, it's also used to treat a skin condition associated with leprosy. It's not used on pregnant women. I have learned my medical fact o' the day.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 24, 2015 20:52:53 GMT -5
How so? Do you really think they will be prescribing it to pregnant women? I was assuming the price hike you mentioned happened before they knew about the effects of thalidomide on pregnancy. So yes, that was the implication. BEFORE? Why would you think that?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 25, 2015 3:13:59 GMT -5
I was assuming the price hike you mentioned happened before they knew about the effects of thalidomide on pregnancy. So yes, that was the implication. BEFORE? Why would you think that? It's just what was in my head when I read your comment. I was under the impression that Thalidomide was taken off the market completely--for all medical purposes--once it was linked to birth defects. I have now read the Wiki article about it and am duly educated.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 25, 2015 10:19:20 GMT -5
will you elaborate, please. I find it appealing that society feels a responsibility to it's own. Our society is different and less homogenous than those of most European countries, and some of what works there would not work so well here perhaps. However, some things can and do.
Universal single payer health care. Free and/ or affordable education. Decent and comfortable retirement. Well maintained infrastructure.
Off the top of my head.
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 18:17:10 GMT -5
will you elaborate, please. I find it appealing that society feels a responsibility to it's own. Our society is different and less homogenous than those of most European countries, and some of what works there would not work so well here perhaps. However, some things can and do.
Universal single payer health care. Free and/ or affordable education. Decent and comfortable retirement. Well maintained infrastructure.
Off the top of my head.
why is single payer important? I do not think anyone is against the other three things you listed. You are more apt to get those things from a smaller, less interventionist government then a large one. Thank you for answering my question.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 26, 2015 12:57:26 GMT -5
Thalidomide is still in use. In addition to its use as a helper drug for dexamethsone used to treat multliple myeloma, it's also used to treat a skin condition associated with leprosy. It's not used on pregnant women. I have learned my medical fact o' the day.
Wonderful! If only you had done that before you posted the other....
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 28, 2015 7:34:00 GMT -5
this kind of incident is why socialism seems appealing to a fairly wide segment of the population. Including, apparently, the worst person of the year. It's like he's crying out for someone to stop him, lol...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 28, 2015 7:39:01 GMT -5
I find it appealing that society feels a responsibility to it's own. Our society is different and less homogenous than those of most European countries, and some of what works there would not work so well here perhaps. However, some things can and do.
Universal single payer health care. Free and/ or affordable education. Decent and comfortable retirement. Well maintained infrastructure.
Off the top of my head.
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally. We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth. It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 28, 2015 10:01:23 GMT -5
I have learned my medical fact o' the day.
Wonderful! If only you had done that before you posted the other....
I have to err occasionally. Otherwise I'd be denying everyone the opportunity to put the whammy on Virgil, and then where would you be?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 10:12:37 GMT -5
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally. We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth. It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. It is posts like this that make you one of the more interesting and intelligent posters here.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 28, 2015 10:42:04 GMT -5
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally. We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth. It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. I agree with you to the extent that the pull towards socialism doesn't favour a stable equilibrium. That is, demands for more socialism persist in full force even when a government has gone fully off the rails into unsustainable spending and overreaching authority. We could look to the "utopias" you mention (Argentina, Venezuela, etc.) that are in a perpetual state of bankruptcy or upheaval, but corruption is the dominant impediment to stability there. Instead, I would offer up Greece, Italy, Ireland, France, and other European nations in an accelerated state of economic meltdown as proof of my contention. The province of Quebec is another prime example. Deficits mean nothing to them. Confiscatory taxes on businesses and the upper-middle class? De rien. Accepting handouts for decades to fund lavish social programs? C'est bien. Mais puis-je avoir un peu plus? Socialism can fairly be likened to a cancer. There's no trigger in people's minds that lets them know "Enough is enough. You are killing the organism (nation) with your demands." Even if a nation is groaning under the weight of its entitlements and a straightforward mathematical analysis shows them to be doomed to fail, "Mais puis-je avoir un peu plus?" Even if excessive regulation and bureaucracy are crippling citizens' ability to do business: "Mais puis-je avoir un peu plus?" That, in a nutshell, is the problem with socialism. Not that a modicum of socialism is inherently a bad thing, but that proponents of socialism ever desire to pull the system away from a sustainable equilibrium. I don't blame US capitalists from pulling as hard as they can in the opposite direction. They lost ground during the Bush administration, they lost ground during the Obama administration, and heaven knows what the next administration is going to do.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 11:08:47 GMT -5
this kind of incident is why socialism seems appealing to a fairly wide segment of the population. Including, apparently, the worst person of the year. It's like he's crying out for someone to stop him, lol... you think that wanker is a socialist? good one.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 11:10:20 GMT -5
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally. We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth.. i agree. but now that we are the wealthiest nation on earth, it doesn't excuse us from these activities. edit: in case i wasn't clear, i meant OUR OWN people. not some random citizen of Ghana.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 11:14:53 GMT -5
It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. better by what standard? you love to say things like this, but you literally never articulate what makes us better. Trump doesn't think we are better. he thinks we are getting our asses kicked. i agree, actually.
so, what is it? are we getting our asses kicked, or are we better?
We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. red herring. nobody thinks healthcare is going to be free. nobody. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. yeah, because our schools, roads, healthcare, and a dozen other aspects of American life are just so vastly superior to places like Denmark and Australia that we don't even need to consider what they are doing, right? right. American Exceptionalism is the ultimate in rose colored glassware.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 28, 2015 11:28:57 GMT -5
It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. better by what standard? you love to say things like this, but you literally never articulate what makes us better. Trump doesn't think we are better. he thinks we are getting our asses kicked. i agree, actually.
so, what is it? are we getting our asses kicked, or are we better?
We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. red herring. nobody thinks healthcare is going to be free. nobody. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. yeah, because our schools, roads, healthcare, and a dozen other aspects of American life are just so vastly superior to places like Denmark and Australia that we don't even need to consider what they are doing, right? right. American Exceptionalism is the ultimate in rose colored glassware. OK, this brings me back to the point: Where are the Americans leaving for Denmark and Australia? It's not that we just blindly ignore success where we find it- but we have to do what we do within the constraints of the principle of liberty first. If these other places are superior- go. The definition of American exceptionalism is about the fact that for all of human history, and throughout most of the world today-- slavery, starvation, tyranny, and desperate want were and are the norm. Along comes America, and for the first time the individual is regarded as sovereign, and endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights, and government is limited to functions which secure those rights-- and in the space of 2 centuries-- the human condition, and human rights advance more than at anytime before or since because of American leadership, and the American example.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 11:38:50 GMT -5
yeah, because our schools, roads, healthcare, and a dozen other aspects of American life are just so vastly superior to places like Denmark and Australia that we don't even need to consider what they are doing, right? right. American Exceptionalism is the ultimate in rose colored glassware. OK, this brings me back to the point: Where are the Americans leaving for Denmark and Australia? let's add a few to the list: Costa Rica and Panama- and the answer is that they are leaving by the millions.It's not that we just blindly ignore success where we find it- but we have to do what we do within the constraints of the principle of liberty first. If these other places are superior- go. i think Iceland is vastly superior in terms of women's rights and free speech. if you are a nut for those issues, go to Iceland. Malta has an incredible lifestyle- perennially temperate climate, access to the western world's most historic and beautiful cities, and a healthcare system that puts ours to shame. the fact that Americans don't know about it is probably a good thing. it is a small country.The definition of American exceptionalism is about the fact that for all of human history, and throughout most of the world today-- slavery, starvation, tyranny, and desperate want were and are the norm. Along comes America, and for the first time the individual is regarded as sovereign, and endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights, and government is limited to functions which secure those rights-- and in the space of 2 centuries-- the human condition, and human rights advance more than at anytime before or since because of American leadership, and the American example. there are lots of countries that respect individual liberties. all of the green ones rate "1" according to Freedom House. most of them have less political corruption than the US. i think anyone would be well served to consider those places:
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 11:42:10 GMT -5
PS- Paul- what i said in post 55 is that we would do well to CONSIDER what places like Australia and Denmark are doing. their education systems are vastly superior, just to cite one example.
i think what irks me is that people like you think that we are so great we don't need to get any better, and that people should emulate our rotting schools and infrastructure. that is, obviously, laughable. it is also the cause of great puzzlement and consternation by countries that have spent half a century figuring this stuff out while we were marching around in circles whistling Dixie.
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 28, 2015 12:10:35 GMT -5
PS- Paul- what i said in post 55 is that we would do well to CONSIDER what places like Australia and Denmark are doing. their education systems are vastly superior, just to cite one example. i think what irks me is that people like you think that we are so great we don't need to get any better, and that people should emulate our rotting schools and infrastructure. that is, obviously, laughable. it is also the cause of great puzzlement and consternation by countries that have spent half a century figuring this stuff out while we were marching around in circles whistling Dixie. Yep. Look at how our kids perform academically compared to other developed nations. Or look at how many other countries have high speed rail or updated airports while we cross our fingers and hope our bridges don't collapse. I love our country but we have a lot of chauvinistic people who believe we are always the best at everything, always. We would do better looking at what other countries do better than us and learning from their experience. For instance, we spend more per person on healthcare and yet we're somewhere around 17th in the world for quality of healthcare. That makes us idiots.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 28, 2015 12:16:50 GMT -5
What this pharma guy may end up achieving is having the US adopt price controls on drugs like most of the other industrialized nations already have. Which is why people try to cross into Canada to buy their prescriptions (despite the pharma companies whining that Canadian drugs are somehow 'different' than the same drugs sold in the US ). I'm very familiar with pharma companies, and they are fat cash cows. They whine about how much money they spend on R and D, but a lot of that R and D comes cheap from universities that use cheap grad student labor. Mark ups are enormous, and they are experts at figuring out how to tweak a formula just enough to extend their patent (let's coat this pill and call it 'time released!). Don't get me started on the orphan drug pharma companies. I visited one not long ago, and while they didn't have gold plated crappers, they could have.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 12:27:07 GMT -5
PS- Paul- what i said in post 55 is that we would do well to CONSIDER what places like Australia and Denmark are doing. their education systems are vastly superior, just to cite one example. i think what irks me is that people like you think that we are so great we don't need to get any better, and that people should emulate our rotting schools and infrastructure. that is, obviously, laughable. it is also the cause of great puzzlement and consternation by countries that have spent half a century figuring this stuff out while we were marching around in circles whistling Dixie. Yep. Look at how our kids perform academically compared to other developed nations. Or look at how many other countries have high speed rail or updated airports while we cross our fingers and hope our bridges don't collapse. I love our country but we have a lot of chauvinistic people who believe we are always the best at everything, always. We would do better looking at what other countries do better than us and learning from their experience. For instance, we spend more per person on healthcare and yet we're somewhere around 17th in the world for quality of healthcare. That makes us idiots. 37th, according to the WHO. and who here thinks that we have the best prison system in the world, in terms of cost, efficiency, justice, and humane treatment? anyone? no, we have a LOT of things we can work on, if we can stop bragging about how great we are and work on it. i have an employee like this. hired him in his first non-military job. and he is good, make no mistake. he is skilled, and he learns fast. i hired him for $15/hr. when he advanced from floor sweeper (which he considered beneath him, and he sucked at) to welder, i gave him a big raise. he complained. he told his boss: i am faster than half the guys here, i should make more than them. his boss told him: when you have worked for 10 years, like they have, you will be making more. he replies: that is not fair- i am already doing better work. his boss: no, you are doing QUICKER work. you will soon discover that speed is not the only thing that matters around here. just because we are awesome does not mean we have nothing to work on. we can always get better. it is what makes the good great.
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 28, 2015 13:58:58 GMT -5
We have the best prison system if the goals are to generate private profits from incarcerating people, and producing better criminals than the ones we sent to jail in the first place.
If the goal is to prepare criminals for a productive life post incarceration, then we suck.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 14:01:58 GMT -5
We have the best prison system if the goals are to generate private profits from incarcerating people, and producing better criminals than the ones we sent to jail in the first place. If the goal is to prepare criminals for a productive life post incarceration, then we suck. i have been saying for years that the goal of the prison system is to create a permanent underclass. would you agree with that assessment?
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 28, 2015 14:07:32 GMT -5
it is ridiculous that in the wealthiest nation on earth, we can't even keep people fed, housed, and well. MY OPINION, naturally. We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth.
It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. Is that why so many other countries have a lower poverty rate than the USA? Because you do more to help the poor than any other country on earth?
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 28, 2015 14:21:15 GMT -5
We didn't become the richest nation on earth feeding and housing people, though the free market and private charity do more to lift people out of poverty than any other nation on earth.
It is amazing to me that we live in a world literally blanketed with government run, centrally planned Utopias, and instead of asking why the United States is different, and why it's so much better here that literally everyone in the world wants to come here- we tear it down. We complain about it. We call it unjust and seek to destroy it. The world doesn't suffer from a lack of free government run healthcare. The world isn't suffering from income inequality. The world is suffering from a lack of liberty, and an unequal distribution of freedom. It's time people began studying the greatness of America, and implementing plans that emulate it, instead of trying to get the US to emulate world-wide historic failure. Is that why so many other countries have a lower poverty rate than the USA? Because you do more to help the poor than any other country on earth?
Myth....meet reality.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 28, 2015 14:25:45 GMT -5
We have the best prison system if the goals are to generate private profits from incarcerating people, and producing better criminals than the ones we sent to jail in the first place. If the goal is to prepare criminals for a productive life post incarceration, then we suck. i have been saying for years that the goal of the prison system is to create a permanent underclass. would you agree with that assessment? I'm not sure if our goal was to create a permanent underclass, or it that was an unintended consequence of rounding up a lot of non violent drug offenders, sticking them in jail, and then letting them lose to try to find jobs with no skills and a prison record. Although I do think that, in the city where I work, the upper classes deliberately let the public schools fail because 1) their kids don't go there (we have the highest percentage of kids in private schools in the state) and 2) we have a big tourist industry locally that needs a lot of poorly educated, barely employable kids to work in the service industry. Poorly educated people, especially those with a prison record, are going to be the only ones willing to work for minimum wage (apart from high school kids wanting part time jobs). Gotta have someone willing to push a mop and sell ice cream to the tourists.
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