ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 15, 2015 15:28:13 GMT -5
Reading this thread makes me think that no animal should be kept as pets.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 16, 2015 14:28:54 GMT -5
Yes, the problem with the pit bulls is they bite down and lock in place. I've witnessed people trying to pry a pit bull's jaws open to make him drop his prey, and it was almost impossible. Although I do agree the main problem is the owner who either trains him to be that way or who is ignorant about dog obedience training and fails to socialize his dog to be around other people/animals without turning on them. I always feel bad when one of these dogs is put down, because it wasn't the dog's fault - but once it's attacked a person, how could you trust it again? Sigh. Pit bulls can not lock their jaw. That's a huge fallacy. Do some research before perpetuating things. Yes it takes a lot of force to open their mouth if they don't want you to. But guess what, my friend couldn't pry the mouth of his dachshund when she got something he didn't want her to have. He's not telling everyone about the amazing locking jaw that dachshunds have. Would you settle for "Pitt bulls are unusually tenacious" and precisely because they come from a line of dogs designed to get a handle on literal "raging bulls"? I agree their bite is not especially strong, and there are plenty of other dogs that can be very tenacious, and unpredictable. I also agree with the poster that stated that just about any short haired dog that even remotely resembles (American Bull Dogs come to mind) what people perceive as a "pit bull" get credit for being a pit bull. There's simply no other way to explain the ridiculous numbers in that 1990 something article. As I said- I have the underwriting data at my fingertips. Pit bulls are way down the list of home owner liability claims for dog bites. And you know, it's miraculous- now that most insurance carriers have limited dog bite liability coverage to a flat $10,000-- SHAZZAM!!! There are far fewer dog bites reported. Would you look at that?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 16, 2015 14:30:34 GMT -5
I'll tell you this, too from claims I've handled: Darn near every dog bite claim I have handled, the dog in question was not spayed or neutered.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Sept 16, 2015 15:34:11 GMT -5
Neighbourhoods that have banned pit bulls here, are now changing their minds and reinstating permission to own pits, but they MUST be neutered.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Sept 16, 2015 15:38:05 GMT -5
Frankly it should be that all pets must be snipped unless you apply and get a license to breed and follow strict rules.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Sept 16, 2015 15:39:07 GMT -5
Speaking of critters....
Animals in Quebec will be considered "sentient beings" instead of property under a bill tabled in the national assembly Friday. Animals have biological needs, said Agriculture Minister Pierre Paradis, whose legislation includes fines of up to $250,000 for those who are cruel to animals as well as jail time for repeat offenders.
Paradis said the act pertains to all domesticated and farm animals and certain wild animals.
Farmers also need to take better care of their animals, Paradis said, and ensure they are "treated with dignity as much as possible" from the moment they are born to the day they die.
Even goldfish don't escape the proposed rules.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-bill-calls-animals-sentient-beings-and-includes-jail-time-for-cruelty-1.3102399
It's about damn time!!
|
|
imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,359
|
Post by imawino on Sept 16, 2015 15:40:34 GMT -5
I'll tell you this, too from claims I've handled: Darn near every dog bite claim I have handled, the dog in question was not spayed or neutered. I don't have any statistics to back me up here - but just from personal experience I would say that I absolutely agree that a dog being unspayed/unneutered is a leading indicator of whether that dog will bite.
SPAY AND NEUTER YOUR PETS!
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Sept 16, 2015 15:43:49 GMT -5
I told my son about the bill. "Sushi will no longer be considered property. He won't be our cat any more. He'll be his own cat." "Good. Now he can get a job."
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,267
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 16, 2015 16:07:50 GMT -5
Would you settle for "Pitt bulls are unusually tenacious" and precisely because they come from a line of dogs designed to get a handle on literal "raging bulls
IDk Daushounds were bred to go after badgers in their liars. I don't know if you've ever met a badger but I'd personally take the bull. Wolfhounds were designed to take down wolves. There are a lot of breeds that were designed to take down animals bigger/more dangerous than them that don't get near the rap "pit bulls" do. I think ANY dog has the potential to be dangerous. I remember that story about the Pomerian that got in the crib and chewed a baby's toes off. Now I will say I could probably drop kick a chihuahua that tried to attack me, I am less likely to be able to get a larger breed dog off me. But I don't relate that to any specific breed. Midnight or Sabah could do a ton of damage to me just as any other large dog.
|
|
Robert not Bobby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 29, 2013 17:45:55 GMT -5
Posts: 1,392
|
Post by Robert not Bobby on Sept 16, 2015 16:19:39 GMT -5
All of New York is gentrifying....regular people like you and me who are not worth tens of millions can never live in Manhattan...the Bronx is next.
Some idiotic young lady with mean uncontrollable dogs.
|
|
daisy
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 24, 2013 0:43:49 GMT -5
Posts: 739
|
Post by daisy on Sept 16, 2015 16:23:16 GMT -5
Ok - I'm on the other side of the fence here. I'm not sharing my story to get pounded by everyone who know the 'sweetest pit bull you ever met'; I'm just telling you MY story. Well, actually my daughter's story.
My ex has a boss who got a 'pit-bull-mix' puppy from a friend. He really didn't want the dog and my oldest fell in love with the puppy and asked if we could take it home with us. We already had a lab/beagle mix so my ex and I agreed. The dog was a couple of months old really just a baby looking for love, which my two girls, ex and I showered on it. He went camping with us, was socialized up the WAZOO since I ran a GS troop and the girls had friends in and out all of the time; all of whom played with the puppy, gave him kisses and adored him. I still have a picture of one of them curled up on an overlarge chair with the dog. He was neutered, vet checked regularly etc. Please don't get the impression that this dog was left outside to bark all day long. He slept on the girl's beds or on the floor next to them every night. He also went to and passed puppy training classes and I worked with him and our other dog regularly.
One night my daughter came up from the basement bathroom when the dog was maybe a year/year and half old. She walked through our dining room and headed into her bedroom (main level). The lights were on, ex and I were sitting on the couch with dogs lying at our feet. The pit BOLTED out of the LR and CHASED her into her room, around the bed where he launched himself at her and bit her thigh just below her butt with such ferocity that she SCREAMED loud enough the neighbors heard her. My ex and I ran into her room and COULD NOT get the dog to let go of her. She was hysterical and had blood running down her leg but the dog was glued to her leg. We beat the dog on the head with whatever was handy and finally he let go of her (obviously because 'let go' was not working). He wandered into the dining room and sat there with the most puzzled look on his face. It was apparent to me that he had no idea what he had just done. Tongue hanging out like, 'hey, what's up?". And yes, I am interpreting his look but he literally didn't act like a dog in trouble and those of you with dogs know exactly what I mean.
My daughter was beside herself, she needed stitches on her leg and it is scarred to this day. The dog was quarantined by our vet and destroyed. I still have his ashes in the house. We wept when the vet put him down. He was the most darling of dogs and loved by everyone who knew him. No one could believe that he could have acted that way. I know that all dogs have the propensity to bite (I have a scar on my face my childhood where my neighbor's little dog bit me) but this dog CHASED her and ATTACKED her...with no warning, no growl, no reason.
Further, my now-husband's son has a pit-bull (mix/whatever) that growls at him every time we are there, again, with no reason; my husband loves dogs and we have two. After hearing my daughter's story he insists that the dog be locked up while we are there. I do not trust other people's dogs any longer. I am terrified to think what would have happened if my dog had gone after one of the 3 year-olds that were part of my youngest's play group. It kept me up at night for a long time.
This is my pit bull story. As I said, please do not pound on me for being a bad owner - no one who knows me would agree with you. I love my dogs dearly and take care of them like children. Oh, and the puppy was not mistreated during it's first two months of life; my ex spoke with the original owner when we were trying to make sense of this - he was just a guy with a dog that had puppies that he gave away.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 16, 2015 16:59:49 GMT -5
Would you settle for "Pitt bulls are unusually tenacious" and precisely because they come from a line of dogs designed to get a handle on literal "raging bulls
IDk Daushounds were bred to go after badgers in their liars. I don't know if you've ever met a badger but I'd personally take the bull. Wolfhounds were designed to take down wolves. There are a lot of breeds that were designed to take down animals bigger/more dangerous than them that don't get near the rap "pit bulls" do. I think ANY dog has the potential to be dangerous. I remember that story about the Pomerian that got in the crib and chewed a baby's toes off. Now I will say I could probably drop kick a chihuahua that tried to attack me, I am less likely to be able to get a larger breed dog off me. But I don't relate that to any specific breed. Midnight or Sabah could do a ton of damage to me just as any other large dog. I'm from IL, and I used to hunt in Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Badgers scare the shit out of me.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 16, 2015 17:08:00 GMT -5
I just inspected a loss with "Max" the pit bull- this was a roof claim, nothing to do with the dog. The people have a trampoline, too. Max jumped up on the trampoline and was jumping around and clearly wanted me to get up there and play with him. I thought it was hysterically funny because there's a joke among underwriters about "pit bulls jumping on trampolines" since both are taboo in underwriting. I took a pic of the dog. I took a separate pic of the trampoline. I did not note the event- I just reported those individual items I'm required to report.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 16, 2015 17:14:26 GMT -5
Frankly it should be that all pets must be snipped unless you apply and get a license to breed and follow strict rules. I'm what you call "not a big government guy", but given that more and more of us live in cities, and sprawling crowded exurbs, and given that I think government's legitimate role is to protect the rights of individuals, first and foremost the right to life, liberty, and property. However, your property rights to an animal stop at your neighbor's right to not be chewed on by said animal. I said all that to say this: I'm not sure, but I think I might agree with you on this.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Sept 16, 2015 18:15:36 GMT -5
Bears also like playing on trampolines.
|
|
fishy999
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 9, 2015 20:40:43 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by fishy999 on Sept 16, 2015 22:48:44 GMT -5
Frankly it should be that all pets must be snipped unless you apply and get a license to breed and follow strict rules. I'm what you call "not a big government guy", but given that more and more of us live in cities, and sprawling crowded exurbs, and given that I think government's legitimate role is to protect the rights of individuals, first and foremost the right to life, liberty, and property. However, your property rights to an animal stop at your neighbor's right to not be chewed on by said animal. I said all that to say this: I'm not sure, but I think I might agree with you on this. So how are you on the 'first bite free' doctrine?
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 16, 2015 23:05:11 GMT -5
Speaking of critters....
Animals in Quebec will be considered "sentient beings" instead of property under a bill tabled in the national assembly Friday. Animals have biological needs, said Agriculture Minister Pierre Paradis, whose legislation includes fines of up to $250,000 for those who are cruel to animals as well as jail time for repeat offenders.
Paradis said the act pertains to all domesticated and farm animals and certain wild animals.
Farmers also need to take better care of their animals, Paradis said, and ensure they are "treated with dignity as much as possible" from the moment they are born to the day they die.
Even goldfish don't escape the proposed rules.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-bill-calls-animals-sentient-beings-and-includes-jail-time-for-cruelty-1.3102399
It's about damn time!!
I'm not sure about the sentience of a goldfish but I can guarantee you my cats have thoughts of their own. The Chooch will argue her stand for hours in a very loud voice! Like you, I'm glad the well-being of animals is finally being taken seriously. If we're to proclaim ourselves sentient, we should be able to recognize that quality in other forms of life as indicated by their actions and reactions.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 17, 2015 14:52:25 GMT -5
I'm what you call "not a big government guy", but given that more and more of us live in cities, and sprawling crowded exurbs, and given that I think government's legitimate role is to protect the rights of individuals, first and foremost the right to life, liberty, and property. However, your property rights to an animal stop at your neighbor's right to not be chewed on by said animal. I said all that to say this: I'm not sure, but I think I might agree with you on this. So how are you on the 'first bite free' doctrine? Nope. They're dogs. They get no "strikes". They don't make mistakes, and there's no way for them to learn. They have a nature. When they reveal that nature to be hostile, that's it. They're just dogs, get another one. I know this is anathema to a lot of people, and I DO love dogs- I have had several great ones. Got a great one now. But if he hurts someone, he's not worth the risk.
|
|