The rest of the story... (very, very long)

[zibazinski]

I think because he is young and wouldn't dream of doing anything like this to a woman. Women my age and older know this shit goes on.

[taz157]

Sept 12, 2015 14:49:27 GMT -5 debthaven said:

I wouldn't put up with that ...

How convenient! Because you probably wouldn't have to, duh!

Why is it that however well-meaning you always claim to be, somehow, your posts never seem to come off that way?

Yeah that.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 12, 2015 14:40:28 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Apple, is this your therapy? Don't let it be...but it is always good to vent.

I don't say or mean that in a snarky kind of way.

You seem like you have gone through some bad experiences, which keep happening again and again. You work in a male dominated environment where, I guess, they see you as a play thing or a nuisance. I wouldn't put up with that ...Ok, I'm a guy, but I still wouldn't put up with the small shits that you have described.

So gather yourself up, be rational and make decisions.

The glass is always half full.

This is not uncommon if you are a woman in certain fields.  It is absolutely NOT acceptable, especially with all of the seminars that most employees are supposed to attend for sexual harrassment.  Apple's story gives information that despite all the evidence that she collected, being a woman whistle blower in this position is almost untenable.

You wouldn't put up with small shits like this because I seriously doubt a male would get repeatedly harassed about sleeping with their boss in order to do/keep their job.

The fact that you think that this is 'blowing off steam' or therapy for her is sad.  It is very informative to the rest of us.

Finally, your attitude doesn't help the situation.

[Robert not Bobby]

This is not uncommon if you are a woman in certain fields. It is absolutely NOT acceptable, especially with all of the seminars that most employees are supposed to attend for sexual harrassment. Apple's story gives information that despite all the evidence that she collected, being a woman whistle blower in this position is almost untenable.

You wouldn't put up with small shits like this because I seriously doubt a male would get repeatedly harassed about sleeping with their boss in order to do/keep their job.

The fact that you think that this is 'blowing off steam' or therapy for her is sad. It is very informative to the rest of us.

Finally, your attitude doesn't help the situation.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Whoa..calm down, I'm with her 100% of the way. I'm sorry if I didn't express that clearly enough.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 12, 2015 15:29:42 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

This is not uncommon if you are a woman in certain fields. It is absolutely NOT acceptable, especially with all of the seminars that most employees are supposed to attend for sexual harrassment. Apple's story gives information that despite all the evidence that she collected, being a woman whistle blower in this position is almost untenable.

You wouldn't put up with small shits like this because I seriously doubt a male would get repeatedly harassed about sleeping with their boss in order to do/keep their job.

The fact that you think that this is 'blowing off steam' or therapy for her is sad. It is very informative to the rest of us.

Finally, your attitude doesn't help the situation.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Whoa..calm down, I'm with her 100% of the way. I'm sorry if I didn't express that clearly enough.

You do this a lot.

[MJ2.0]

OMG, how did you work there for 8 years and not go in there with an oozie or flame thrower one day?!?!?! I would have seriously snapped and people would have gotten hurt. I am so angry reading this - didn't think it was still like this in the 2000s in America. And it's not healthy for your son to see you under all that stress for so long. No one deserves what you went through.

[chiver78]

congrats on getting some results, Apple. I know it wasn't everything you were asking for, but it's still an escape to a safe and sane place for you. kudos on keeping your sanity to see it all through to the end, and best of luck moving forward.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 12, 2015 15:55:31 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

congrats on getting some results, Apple. I know it wasn't everything you were asking for, but it's still an escape to a safe and sane place for you. kudos on keeping your sanity to see it all through to the end, and best of luck moving forward.

Exactly.  Sometimes, you just need to protect yourself above all else and it sounds like you're doing that.  You can hope that maybe this will shake up that hierarchy, it might.....or it might go back to the same ole, same ole.

I had to make a similar decision way back in the beginning of my career, and came to the conclusion when all was said and done, the person who would pay the most for this was me.  I didn't have the resources (education, financial, emotional) and left.  I did get satisfaction in knowing that a few years later, the lab actually got caught up in a major scandal.

It really is a hard battle, doing what you think is ethically correct vs protecting yourself.

[finnime]

I'm in awe of your perseverance in the face of gross hostility and harassment. You have taught me much.

Getting the position you want is wonderful. I wish you the best in your new future.

[debthaven]

Whoa..calm down, I'm with her 100% of the way. I'm sorry if I didn't express that clearly enough.

It seems to be a recurring problem though. Maybe you need to work (hard) on your delivery?

[sesfw]

came to the conclusion when all was said and done, the person who would pay the most for this was me. I didn't have the resources (education, financial, emotional) and left.





I had a situation on this same order more than 25 years ago, and to save my sanity I chose to leave.  I also had the knowledge that the purps finally had their chains yanked and the whole thing imploded.  I was surprised but I felt sad when it did happen ........ at one time they were friends and even though I don't ever want to see them again, I don't wish bad things to happen.

Eventually Karma happens ...... and usually at the most inconvenient time.

[Anne_in_VA]

Apple, I am so very sorry you had to deal with this for so many years.  It shouldn't still be happening I this day and age, but it obviously does. Like some of the others here, I had something similar happen, but I chose to leave rather than fight after reporting it and having nothing happen to the perpetrator.  

You are an amazing and strong person.  I hope your new job is wonderful and your life becomes what you'd like it to be.

[NoNamePerson]

OMG, what a nightmare you have been living. Glad you are removing yourself from it. I don't know what else to say as I am shaking my head in utter disgust.

[joemilitary]

Best is not to stir up anything more and try to move fwd.

Also smart move not logging onto the personal email at work computer.

I never log on to FB or my personal email at work anymore.

It's unfortunate, but there are sociopaths and narcissists out there leading a lot of organizations that don't think rationally.

[bobosensei]

I know what you mean about victims not wanting to report.  I wasn't a victim, but after months of seeing a guy at my old job use his position to get sex from underlings 30 years younger than him and 3 to 4 levels below him in the chain of command I reported him after I got so disgusted I quit my volunteer position.  I told HR he would come after my reputation which he did.  And what angers me most is that his activity is fairly well known.  Before he moved to my area which was a promotion to him there were allegations of his behavior.  The man was divorced three different times in a couple years because of his activity at work.  People talked about it, but nothing official just gossip.  The higher ups knew though, but they were able to deny.  The person hurt through all of it was me.  I am so disgusted with everyone, especially the women who knew because it is mostly women, they didn't do anything to protect those young girls that he abused.

From what I hear now he's finally being investigated for racism which was also something I reported about him.  I think a lot of time that goes hand in hand.  I mean if you are okay abusing women you are probably okay abusing minorities.  But he's already done damage to some young black managers and the company will probably end up losing them.

I applaud your courage apple.  I hope things get better for you each and every day.  As I get older I see so many things that hurt women in the workplace.  I think when women are young they don't always get it.  They are too naive in some ways to report it or maybe even understand the consequences or they think they will be able to overcome the issue on their own.  But I will always look out for the interests of my female co-workers.  I'll never let myself get in a position where I need the job so much that I have to "take it" because I know many women don't have a choice.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

The person hurt through all of it was me. I am so disgusted with everyone, especially the women who knew because it is mostly women, they didn't do anything to protect those young girls that he abused.

I don't think that this is fair of you.  First of all, you never said anything yourself while you were volunteering - and you had less to lose than many of the employees - you only said anything as you were on your way out the door so this puts you on par with those other women too.  Secondly, you were volunteering, which implies to me that you were not dependent upon this job for a salary.  When your financial livelihood is dependent upon maintaining your job and salary, then it becomes very difficult to be a whistle blower - especially knowing that you may be black balled.  This guy came after you, but couldn't harm you as much as some of the older women in the company who needed their job.

So why would you be disgusted with the other woman for doing something that you were not willing to do yourself?

I don't judge about this anymore, after walking out myself without making waves.  I know one woman who was black balled from her research because she blew the whistle on her boss.  She couldn't get a job in research and 8+ years of education went down the toilet as no one would touch her.

[TheOtherMe]

Apple, I know a lot of what you have gone through.  I had hoped this was no longer happening.

I was denied a promotion way back in 1975 because "men didn't like to deal with women" in the position I applied for.  Yes, I filed an EEO complaint.  It also took years, but I won.  Another woman also filed an EEO complaint for the same reason and she won.  I then asked to be transferred away from that location because I knew they would always be after me.  When I went to work the first day in the new city (out of state), I was amazed at all the women doing the job. 

It was "them", not me who couldn't deal with women in the job. 

Karma will get them. 

[bobosensei]

Sept 13, 2015 13:22:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

The person hurt through all of it was me. I am so disgusted with everyone, especially the women who knew because it is mostly women, they didn't do anything to protect those young girls that he abused.

I don't think that this is fair of you.  First of all, you never said anything yourself while you were volunteering - and you had less to lose than many of the employees - you only said anything as you were on your way out the door so this puts you on par with those other women too.  Secondly, you were volunteering, which implies to me that you were not dependent upon this job for a salary.  When your financial livelihood is dependent upon maintaining your job and salary, then it becomes very difficult to be a whistle blower - especially knowing that you may be black balled.  This guy came after you, but couldn't harm you as much as some of the older women in the company who needed their job.

So why would you be disgusted with the other woman for doing something that you were not willing to do yourself?

I don't judge about this anymore, after walking out myself without making waves.  I know one woman who was black balled from her research because she blew the whistle on her boss.  She couldn't get a job in research and 8+ years of education went down the toilet as no one would touch her.

Well, I didn't want to get into all of this.  But I did report the first incident I was aware about to three different people within weeks after it happened.  First I went to the whistleblower person who said- of how awful, but not an issue we deal with go to his boss.  So I told his supervisor who at the time was an interim person.  I didn't get a response so I reached out to two ladies I knew who were his peers that I worked with years ago.  That was where I learned that none of this was a surprise.  One of them directed me to a trusted person at HR and I emailed her the information that I knew.  They sent me a form to put it on.  The form turned out to pretty much be a personal grievance form.  The only way to seek "resolution" was to have a three way call with him and HR.  I was upset as I knew me discussing anything he was doing would have no bearing on his future behavior.  I wasn't looking for an apology.  I wanted him to be stopped.  And when it became apparent that there was no way for me to report this anonymously, as I had hoped, I knew that there was no way for me to help anyone.  At best he'd just shut me out of everything, and at worst he'd be abusive to my face.  So I turned in the written complaint on the form along with my resignation.  Several weeks later someone from HR called to get more information from me.  They told me that they would investigate, and I asked them to start with the girls because I feared he would threaten them or it would give them time to come up with a story.  Two days after I spoke with HR he called my phone 6 times in a row, but would not leave a message which he'd never done.  Then I never heard from him again.  Ultimately, it got back to me that someone called him and told him to stop "fraternizing" with people.  He wanted to make sure that I knew he got away with it.  And in recent months I have walked a fine line of trying to reach out to the people when I hear they are quitting to encourage them to go forward with information if they have any.  The problem is that when I turned in the written complaint I was also agreeing to not discuss it with anyone.  And I hardly think I should be sharing what he was doing because people will be able to figure out who else was involved.  And that part of the story isn't mine to tell.  So while I suspect at least one other young girl had a sexual relationship with him the most I could do was encourage her to be honest in her exit interview to try to make things better for those still at the company.

And when I said I was the only one who was hurt, I meant between me and him.  Definitely didn't mean for that to sound like I was minimizing the victims issues.

[bobosensei]

And yes at the time of all of this I was a volunteer, but this was a company that I worked at for several years just before taking a volunteer position which I had to take because DH moved for his job and the only paid position where we were going wasn't open and it was a downgrade from what I was doing.  There has been a financial impact for me.  Several positions I am qualified for have come open since them, and being a previous employee in good standing I could have been an automatic hire.  Because DH is facing job loss in about 6 months we fully intended for me to wait until a job opened up in a desired location and then to live separately for a while.  This is no longer going to be an option unless I am willing to move to Asia.  And I might if I thought that my promotion potential hadn't been ruined.

Now I am applying for grad school, but I've lost some of the potential recommendations that I would have had if I'd just kept my mouth shut about everything.  I don't regret what I did, but I also don't see where I really helped anything. 

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Like I said, my SO is an electrician and he walked off a job because he saw someone get fired for someone else's mistake. The only other time he has told me about someone walking off of a job was when one of the out of town female coworkers from a different crew left in the middle of the day. It sounded like the rumors were already spreading about why she left (she screwed something up, she was going to sue, etc...) , but just the other week my SO was complaining about how the guys she worked with's version of lunchtime conversation was telling ridiculous stories about how they all hooked up with her.
No one else believed that she hooked up with any of those old married guys, but they still couldn't figure out why she left. I really hope your new place is better! My SO is underpaid and has terrible benefits, but he still wouldn't even think of going back to his last company.

[MJ2.0]

I just wonder how microscopic must their penises be for men to feel threatened by a woman as an equal. It must be torture to be that insecure in your masculinity to think that only men should do certain jobs or that it makes you less of a man when a woman can do the same job as you.