zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2015 18:31:28 GMT -5
the country with highest gun possession is Switzerland. in fact, it is a legal REQUIREMENT for citizens to own guns there. what is their homicide rate? next consideration: WHY? How diverse is Switzerland? Do they have a culture that promotes hatred?
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 27, 2015 18:52:44 GMT -5
When the lion Cecil is shot, it is the man's fault.
In America, it's the guns fault.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Aug 27, 2015 20:29:26 GMT -5
We don't have nearly as much gun crime in the UK because to the general public they are illegal. Farmers can have them...and shooting clubs. but there aren't a lot in circulation....and the police don't usually have them.
How do the UK police deal with unarmed people 'charging them' without being able to shoot them immediately?
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Aug 27, 2015 20:35:54 GMT -5
Switzerland has a mandatory draft law. All men 18 and over,able bodied serve their country for a limited period and upon discharge they are keeping the weapon that was issued to them at drafting. Every so often they go in for "updates" on their training. That might be the reason why Switzerland has the highest number of weapons per capita. Key word in this is "military service" meaning they are trained on "how to" Psych evaluation are part of the training or retraining as to make sure that all those that have a weapon in their possession are stable. The weapons are safely stored in each residence and they are not displayed in public. The only ones that walk around with a weapon are the law enforcement people.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 27, 2015 20:45:49 GMT -5
I think a minimum sentence of 10 years in federal pound me in the ass prison for anyone caught with an unregistered firearm would pretty much take care of it. There might be a few folks who take their chances, but I bet most folks would register their guns. To be clear I'm saying 10 years minimum just for the unregistered gun, even if it's not used in a crime and they aren't charged with anything else. Not that we would ever do that but my hypothetical is one answer to yours. Oh that will work...... Until the Libs discover the law is discrimatory to illegal Mexicans and American black males in the inner cities. Pretty sure about 60% of young inner city black males could wind up in jail on this issue alone, Throw in the so called discrimatory drug laws that send black men to jail, overwhelmingly more than whites, and we would have just about the entire inner city black male population in jail. The Democrats would not permit this. Not that I disagree with you, but impossible to implement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:21:08 GMT -5
The difference is one IS illegal and one isn't. The fact that our piece of shit govt doesn't enforce the laws regarding illegals has no bearing on gun laws. When the govt enforces the law, not picking and choosing, then maybe that's another story. wrong. an AK-47 is not legal. neither are cannons and hand grenades. they are analogous to heroin and cocaine. CERTAIN TYPES of guns are legal. CERTAIN TYPES of drugs are legal. and before you think i am saying that all guns should be made illegal, you might consider my stance on drugs. Cannons are actually legal. As long as they are of the "muzzle loaded" variety, anyone can own one of them. On the other hand, "Breech Loaders" (where you load it from the back of the cannon) take special permits that not everyone can get.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 21:26:43 GMT -5
I think a minimum sentence of 10 years in federal pound me in the ass prison for anyone caught with an unregistered firearm would pretty much take care of it. There might be a few folks who take their chances, but I bet most folks would register their guns. To be clear I'm saying 10 years minimum just for the unregistered gun, even if it's not used in a crime and they aren't charged with anything else. Not that we would ever do that but my hypothetical is one answer to yours. Oh that will work...... Until the Libs discover the law is discrimatory to illegal Mexicans and American black males in the inner cities. Pretty sure about 60% of young inner city black males could wind up in jail on this issue alone, Throw in the so called discrimatory drug laws that send black men to jail, overwhelmingly more than whites, and we would have just about the entire inner city black male population in jail. The Democrats would not permit this.Not that I disagree with you, but impossible to implement. Would you permit it?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 27, 2015 22:08:54 GMT -5
Oh that will work...... Until the Libs discover the law is discrimatory to illegal Mexicans and American black males in the inner cities. Pretty sure about 60% of young inner city black males could wind up in jail on this issue alone, Throw in the so called discrimatory drug laws that send black men to jail, overwhelmingly more than whites, and we would have just about the entire inner city black male population in jail. The Democrats would not permit this.Not that I disagree with you, but impossible to implement. Would you permit it? I assume you are asking if I WOULD PERMIT IT. I do not have a say in it. I do not believe unlicensed weapons should go unpunished, and do imagine, due to the large white population, there are more unlicensed pistols owned by whites than blacks, but the proportion of inner city black males is way out of proportion to the general white male population as a whole with unlicensed weapons, therefore they would be highly likely to be disproportionally represented in the jail population. I will say, why should American citizens be held to law enforcement standards and laws when the Federal government allows illegal aliens to live here with impunity, and not to have to follow the simple law of being an illegal? Now that is pure bullshit by our government.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 27, 2015 22:12:29 GMT -5
It seems that the American public at large picks and chooses what laws to abide by. Remember the discussion about the "illegals"? The general consensus amongst a certain part of the populous is that they should be thrown in jail and deported. What if a law is passed saying that if you don't register your guns or do a background check when you privately aquire one we will throw your ass in jail? I presume that wouldn't work due to the common "it is my second amendment" shpeal. The fact of the matter is that there is a law that require all guns to be registered even when they are inherited and such. Do we pick and choose what laws to abide by? The fact of the matter is that there is a law that require all guns to be registered even when they are inherited and such.
Only in limited jurisdictions.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 22:13:17 GMT -5
I assume you are asking if I WOULD PERMIT IT. I do not have a say in it. I do not believe unlicensed weapons should go unpunished, and do imagine, due to the large white population, there are more unlicensed pistols owned by whites than blacks, but the proportion of inner city black males is way out of proportion to the general white male population as a whole with unlicensed weapons, therefore they would be highly likely to be disproportionally represented in the jail population. I will say, why should American citizens be held to law enforcement standards and laws when the Federal government allows illegal aliens to live here with impunity, and not to have to follow the simple law of being an illegal? Now that is pure bullshit by our government. Reread the part I highlighted in your post and reply back.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 27, 2015 22:22:10 GMT -5
I assume you are asking if I WOULD PERMIT IT. I do not have a say in it. I do not believe unlicensed weapons should go unpunished, and do imagine, due to the large white population, there are more unlicensed pistols owned by whites than blacks, but the proportion of inner city black males is way out of proportion to the general white male population as a whole with unlicensed weapons, therefore they would be highly likely to be disproportionally represented in the jail population. I will say, why should American citizens be held to law enforcement standards and laws when the Federal government allows illegal aliens to live here with impunity, and not to have to follow the simple law of being an illegal? Now that is pure bullshit by our government. Reread the part I highlighted in your post and reply back. Okay, I should have written "but the proportion in inner city black males is way out of proportion, percentage wise, to the general white population as a whole that have unlicensed pistols in the country.Is that your question? I believe a higher percentage of the male population own unlicensed weapons in the inner city that across the entire country percentage wise. White males I assume, own more unlicensed weapons due to the size of their population numbers, but Joe sixpack in Podunk Iowa has a much less chance of being caught, unless pistol whipping the wife or girlfriend or doing drunk target practice on the back forty.....
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 27, 2015 22:35:28 GMT -5
What exactly are some of the (Chicago) strongest gun laws in the nation?
Well for one there are no gun stores in Chicago.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 23:06:44 GMT -5
What exactly are some of the (Chicago) strongest gun laws in the nation?Well for one there are no gun stores in Chicago. So no one who lives in Chicago proper can buy a gun anywhere in the Chicago area? Do you consider that a burden for those who wish to buy a weapon? I came across this. It doesn't seem too hard to buy a gun around the Chicago area. ArmsDealer
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 27, 2015 23:08:15 GMT -5
Reread the part I highlighted in your post and reply back. Okay, I should have written "but the proportion in inner city black males is way out of proportion, percentage wise, to the general white population as a whole that have unlicensed pistols in the country.Is that your question? I believe a higher percentage of the male population own unlicensed weapons in the inner city that across the entire country percentage wise. White males I assume, own more unlicensed weapons due to the size of their population numbers, but Joe sixpack in Podunk Iowa has a much less chance of being caught, unless pistol whipping the wife or girlfriend or doing drunk target practice on the back forty..... Reread reply #40. The only highlighting in that post was done by me.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 27, 2015 23:08:07 GMT -5
Although I am not advocating doing this. I used to be pro-gun control because I thought we could copy countries like the UK and reduce our murder rate. I've decided, however, that there is just some violent undercurrent in American society that drives people to turn on each other, whether with guns or knives or running them over with cars. With no other options, we would be beating each other to death with our hands. This violent animosity towards each other seems to be growing. Tolerating school shootings and disgruntled employees killing their coworkers and posting it on social media is just part of American life, like apple pie and Mom.
I think you have this right Happyhoix, On this board there really smart people, but do you notice how quick some are to take up a fight over almost nothing?
In the real world it is 10, 20, 30, times worse than here. "You just cut me off you SOB, I'm going to blow your head off" you have the gang bangers that would shoot you, cut up you just to see you bleed.
In the drug world there were a couple of drug mules caught by their boss stealing drugs, Yea, they wrapped them in plastic wrap, shoved them into large suitcases, put them in a trunk of a car.
drove around Las Vegas for a couple of hours on a 110 degree day. Absolutely no concern for life.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 27, 2015 23:31:57 GMT -5
How do like my avatar Tenn, that's an actual picture of oldcoyote, the Oathkeeper t-shirt was buried in the closet, My unregistered Chinese military semi auto 7.62X39 rifle
with the synthetic folding stock, 30 round detachable magazine, pistol grip, bi pod, and flash suppressor. Not as easily seen is the unregistered Glock 10MM pistol with hi capacity magazines on my hip,
the unfortunate registered Glock 9MM that I use for concealed carry on my backside, on the left side is my Ka-Bar U.S.M.C. fighting knife, A can of pepper spray.
I was going to hang the American Flag on the tree behind me and stack several full ammo cans in front , But , I ran out of time. Sighhhh..
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Aug 28, 2015 1:10:32 GMT -5
I'd lose that Oathkeeper shirt if I were you. Are you anti-cop? Anti-government? Walking a fine line I think. Not concerned about how many weapons or equipment you have- worry about the people you might associate with.
Easy to dispel my concern though- but will you?
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Aug 28, 2015 5:39:40 GMT -5
You wasted your money on that 7.62x39 Chinese crap! Should've gotten a Romanian one with wood stock. More accurate and sturdier to! Kudos on that Ka-Bar knife! They are awesome! I got one for Christmas a few years back and I love it. What are you gonna do with all that weaponry when the government sends a drone in?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 28, 2015 7:14:25 GMT -5
wrong. an AK-47 is not legal. neither are cannons and hand grenades. they are analogous to heroin and cocaine. CERTAIN TYPES of guns are legal. CERTAIN TYPES of drugs are legal. and before you think i am saying that all guns should be made illegal, you might consider my stance on drugs. Cannons are actually legal. As long as they are of the "muzzle loaded" variety, anyone can own one of them. On the other hand, "Breech Loaders" (where you load it from the back of the cannon) take special permits that not everyone can get. Are trebuchets legal? I would like to construct a large one in my side yard, point it at my red neck neighbor's house, and chunk several bags of trash at it when he holds his next late night garage/driveway BBQ hootenanny.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Aug 28, 2015 7:16:52 GMT -5
We don't have nearly as much gun crime in the UK because to the general public they are illegal. Farmers can have them...and shooting clubs. but there aren't a lot in circulation....and the police don't usually have them.
If anyone is brandishing a firearm, the local SWAT teams have a shoot-to-kill policy.
It doesn't stop the odd crazy.......but our hearts were broken over the Dunblane school massacre, when a class of five year olds were killed by a nutter. So the general public don't want them.
I can understand people in the US feeling vulnerable in sparsely populated regions. You could call a SWAT team.... and be dead by the time they arrive. but do you really need them in cities? We have this second amendment on the Constitution...it's there I believe because the founding fathers wanted the citizens to have way to over throw a seated government if they, the seated, became a unpopular government and didn't want to move on..something like that...{ Actually I always thought that amendment was so the citizens would legally be able to have arms to be ready to protect the nation from out side sources..back then the weapons were limited...Baynot, musket,pistols, horses[cavalry], cannon...muskets were the biggie..guess I was wrong on that..} Whatever..it's estimated that there are over 300 million fire arms of all sorts in private hands and growing everyday.. I was always impressed by how, after Dunblane, the Brits went along with the recall so quietly...and that the cops..[Bobbies?} still for the most part go un armed..special squads being armed but niot actively patrolling the streets..
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 28, 2015 7:20:25 GMT -5
No, the govt doesn't get to 'go round up the guns". We have laws coming out of our ears. I am pretty sure that murder is illegal so now sure how more laws will stop anything. And, no you cannot have my guns, thanks.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 28, 2015 7:21:35 GMT -5
If we wanted to go the way of UK or other European countries that have very tight gun laws, we would stop legal gun sales of all the forbidden types of guns (I would assume, like the UK, we would allow guns for hunters and farmers). Once the legal sales through stores, internet purchases and gun shows dried up, we would continue to destroy confiscated weapons obtained during criminal arrests or raids on criminal properties. It would take years, but gradually the vast underground market on guns would shrink dramatically. They would never go away completely, but if the source dried up, they would get a lot harder for the criminals to obtain. Although I am not advocating doing this. I used to be pro-gun control because I thought we could copy countries like the UK and reduce our murder rate. I've decided, however, that there is just some violent undercurrent in American society that drives people to turn on each other, whether with guns or knives or running them over with cars. With no other options, we would be beating each other to death with our hands. This violent animosity towards each other seems to be growing. Tolerating school shootings and disgruntled employees killing their coworkers and posting it on social media is just part of American life, like apple pie and Mom. i am not sure it is even a violent undercurrent, but i will agree that i think it is "mental". it is how we think, somehow. part of it might be that we don't trust each other. i would like to offer this board as an example of this. there are many posters here that have a fundamentally negative view of humanity. I think it's something about our willingness to turn to physical violence so quickly. I've lived abroad and seen other cultures where they are quick to start shouting and gesturing with their hands when things turn ugly. Our go to response seems to be to go fetch the gun. We had an incident a while back where an elderly man with dementia wandered back to his previous home and stood in their yard in the middle of the day. Just stood there muttering to himself. The young man who was currently living in the house said he thought the old man was threatening and shot him to death. There was no public outcry, he wasn't arrested, everyone seemed to agree it was just a sad tragedy. So if a feeble looking old man shows up in your yard in the middle of the day, your first impulse isn't to speak to him to ask him what he's doing? Or maybe call the cops and ask them to come get the guy off your property? Is our national mantra to shoot first and ask questions later?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 28, 2015 7:58:18 GMT -5
I have guns. I'm licensed as are they. I wouldn't shoot an old guy in broad daylight in my backyard. But if it was at night and he was trying to break in? Yes, I'd call the cops but if he got in before they arrived, sorry, dementia doesn't work on me. I'd be sorry that he got away from wherever he was supposed to be but I'm taking no chances on that he Might be old or out of his mind. I don't go looking for Trouble but I'm not backing down either.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 28, 2015 8:07:11 GMT -5
There are more people around me who don't own guns that are talking about getting them.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 28, 2015 8:29:00 GMT -5
I'd lose that Oathkeeper shirt if I were you. Are you anti-cop? Anti-government? Walking a fine line I think. Not concerned about how many weapons or equipment you have- worry about the people you might associate with. Easy to dispel my concern though- but will you? fishy999, I acquired the Oathkeeper t-shirt after the SWAT team in Tucson gunned down Jose Guerena, firing 71 rounds down his hall, hitting him 22 times, leaving him to bled to death. His family received $3.5 Million, Not near enough for the damage caused, The lies out of the Sheriff dept over many months. Not a single police officer was held accountable for their action, Not even the Detective that wrote up the absolve fishing expedition search warrant. Just in case any of you would read an account of this, I don't think any of you will. Here is a link. But if you do go through the transcripts, It will show just how inept our justice system is. statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/category/jose-guerena-case/ Here is the part I don't understand, people are quick to condemn something that wants to keep ethics in something like this , But fail to hold the action of the police in cases like this accountable. Your silence is deathlike, At least I say something.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 28, 2015 8:51:59 GMT -5
How do like my avatar Tenn, that's an actual picture of oldcoyote, the Oathkeeper t-shirt was buried in the closet, My unregistered Chinese military semi auto 7.62X39 rifle with the synthetic folding stock, 30 round detachable magazine, pistol grip, bi pod, and flash suppressor. Not as easily seen is the unregistered Glock 10MM pistol with hi capacity magazines on my hip, the unfortunate registered Glock 9MM that I use for concealed carry on my backside, on the left side is my Ka-Bar U.S.M.C. fighting knife, A can of pepper spray. I was going to hang the American Flag on the tree behind me and stack several full ammo cans in front , But , I ran out of time. Sighhhh.. Meh. When nature shortchanges humans, especially men, humans usually make up for it with big guns and humvees.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 28, 2015 9:04:24 GMT -5
The only reason I dug the t-shirt out, put everything together, posted it is because I knew you would like. Tenn.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any dead puppies on such short notice to scatter around the scene just to confirm your thoughts about me!
Have a nice day Tenn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 17:54:46 GMT -5
Cannons are actually legal. As long as they are of the "muzzle loaded" variety, anyone can own one of them. On the other hand, "Breech Loaders" (where you load it from the back of the cannon) take special permits that not everyone can get. Are trebuchets legal? I would like to construct a large one in my side yard, point it at my red neck neighbor's house, and chunk several bags of trash at it when he holds his next late night garage/driveway BBQ hootenanny. With a trebuchet, I believe the issue doesn't come into play until you FIRE it. They use them on "Punkin Chunkin" so they probably aren't illegal (that's just a guess though).
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Aug 28, 2015 21:01:56 GMT -5
I'd lose that Oathkeeper shirt if I were you. Are you anti-cop? Anti-government? Walking a fine line I think. Not concerned about how many weapons or equipment you have- worry about the people you might associate with. Easy to dispel my concern though- but will you? fishy999, I acquired the Oathkeeper t-shirt after the SWAT team in Tucson gunned down Jose Guerena, firing 71 rounds down his hall, hitting him 22 times, leaving him to bled to death. His family received $3.5 Million, Not near enough for the damage caused, The lies out of the Sheriff dept over many months. Not a single police officer was held accountable for their action, Not even the Detective that wrote up the absolve fishing expedition search warrant. Just in case any of you would read an account of this, I don't think any of you will. Here is a link. But if you do go through the transcripts, It will show just how inept our justice system is. statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/category/jose-guerena-case/ Here is the part I don't understand, people are quick to condemn something that wants to keep ethics in something like this , But fail to hold the action of the police in cases like this accountable. Your silence is deathlike, At least I say something. I read about that- horrible. No knock warrants should be abolished or used as a last resort only- all too often they are used fighting the drug war we lost a decade ago. Case after case they barge into the wrong house, have bad information and innocent people end up paying the price while they move on to the next raid. I thought the oathkeepers were akin to sovereign citizen types- and those people scare me. I read something about them planning to arm a group of black men in Ferguson with AR-15s to see how the police like it. Wonder how that is going to turn out.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Aug 29, 2015 2:13:13 GMT -5
Switzerland has a mandatory draft law. All men 18 and over,able bodied serve their country for a limited period and upon discharge they are keeping the weapon that was issued to them at drafting. Every so often they go in for "updates" on their training. That might be the reason why Switzerland has the highest number of weapons per capita. Key word in this is "military service" meaning they are trained on "how to" Psych evaluation are part of the training or retraining as to make sure that all those that have a weapon in their possession are stable. The weapons are safely stored in each residence and they are not displayed in public. The only ones that walk around with a weapon are the law enforcement people. They use to issue a sealed cannister of ammunition for the home weapons...50 rounds.That was stopped in 2007 and a recall of the sealed tins went into effect 99% of the ammunition was returned...today about 2000 special troops, the ones who would guard Airports and such vital installations still are issued live ammunition to keep with their weapons...Markesmanship is encouraged and the State subsidizes the ammunition to be shot ...must be used up at the ranges though..At the end of the enlistments the ex soldiers are allowed to keep their weapons but they have to be converted to semi automatic from automatic..
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