GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 26, 2015 12:54:36 GMT -5
Has anyone visited the Grand Canyon in winter? We're New Englanders. 110 degrees in July even at the Grand Canyon does not sound fun. We are considering flying into Phoenix in late December, driving to the South Rim, doing the hike to the bottom and back with an overnight or two at the bottom. From my research, lows are in the 30s and highs around 57 -- so, spring-like weather for us. Any advice from you wise, peripatetic YMers?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 26, 2015 12:55:45 GMT -5
sounds awesome.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 26, 2015 12:57:46 GMT -5
You have to be careful of the weather. The south rim is open in December but can still get quite a bit of snow. A couple of years ago I went the first week of December and the trail had snow on it.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 26, 2015 13:07:12 GMT -5
You have to be careful of the weather. The south rim is open in December but can still get quite a bit of snow. A couple of years ago I went the first week of December and the trail had snow on it. Thanks for the warning, but, truth be told, snow doesn't phase me. (What did Boston get last winter in the space of about 6 weeks? 120+ inches?). We hike local rail trails and forests all year long, so we are very used to being out in the stuff.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 26, 2015 13:08:31 GMT -5
The Grand Canyon is breath-taking in any season. I highly recommend that everyone put it on their bucket list .
In winter you will have to go to the south rim, because the north rim will be closed.
Have fun!
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Aug 26, 2015 13:24:37 GMT -5
Sounds almost tropical
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mcsangel2
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Post by mcsangel2 on Aug 26, 2015 13:37:21 GMT -5
It's going to be colder than that at the end of December, and it's definitely going to be colder than that if you hike in. I can't imagine anyone camping there at that time. They've also had significant snowstorms in the last couple of years.
The other thing you have to remember is that the 'dry heat' thing (low humidity) effects cold temperatures too. Low 30s in Arizona does not feel like low 30s in New England does. I (as an Arizona native) figured this out when I visited Chicago one Thanksgiving. I was running around in just a sweatshirt in 45 degree weather. I can guarantee I've never done that at home. A friend from New Jersey visited us (in Phoenix) in January one year and he was very surprised by how cold the evenings were.
It's lovely in the winter. By all means, come and visit, but stay in a hotel!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 26, 2015 14:08:11 GMT -5
My parents hiked south rim to the bottom in March. The morning they started there was an inch of snow at the top and 80 degrees at the bottom. I think December would be more pleasant than summer, but there is still a possibility of excess snow at the top that may cause you problems.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 26, 2015 14:59:41 GMT -5
You will have to watch the weather carefully. Snow and ice will definitely affect your ability to hike the canyon. Remember the South Rim is at 7,000' and the bottom is at 2,500'.
www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/winter-recreation.htm
Accomodations at the bottom of the canyon are through Phantom Ranch
www.grandcanyonlodges.com/lodging/phantom-ranch/
You are mostly likely to find lodging in one of the dorms. When I did my cheater's Rim to Rim (North Rim to South Rim) I was able to secure 2 days of lodging over Memorial Day weekend by calling the reservation line EVERY DAY for a week waiting for last minute cancellations.
Food is excellent especially the hiker's stew. I'd skip the bag lunch and pack my own.
I highly recommend hiking poles; they are surprisingly helpful going up. I couldn't believe how fast I was able to hike the S. Kaibab Trail which has many, many switchbacks and stairs. BTW you can hike down the Bright Angel go to Phantom Ranch and come out the S. Kaibab (or vice versa). The views from the S. Kaibab are spectacular and I highly recommend hiking one leg of it vs just down and back the Bright Angel. You can take a free shuttle to get back to the Bright Angel/Miwok lodge area where you are mostly likely going to park.
Training-Although there's no real way to train for a GC hike; hiking for hours until you are exhausted is my advice. There's no way to explain what it's like to hike a solid 7.5-8 miles entirely uphill. And don't forget that altitude can be a factor.
Have fun and enjoy this spectacular national treasure!
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myrrh
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Post by myrrh on Aug 26, 2015 15:38:08 GMT -5
We went one year around Christmas time. We didn't hike down the bottom, just stayed near the top. It was beautiful because there were clouds inside the canyon. It was kind of weird driving around looking for restaurants open on Christmas though - nearly everything was closed and we ended up eating at a Chinese food restaurant for Christmas dinner.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 26, 2015 15:40:59 GMT -5
Bonny makes several good points. If you can, one of the things you might consider is spending a few days on the rim before your hike. It'll give you a chance to acclimate to the altitutde and the thinner air a bit. Decreasing the chance that one of you might experience altitude sickness. (When we moved from 300 foot LA to 5,000 feet in the Sierra's, I had a thundering headache for the first three or four days, until I adjusted.)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 26, 2015 16:21:23 GMT -5
Have you considered going in the March/April time frame? Not 110 and not 30. Likely to be beautiful, and manageable.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 26, 2015 17:52:22 GMT -5
Have you considered going in the March/April time frame? Not 110 and not 30. Likely to be beautiful, and manageable. I agree that April is probably the optimum. I had a hiking buddy who used to do the down to the river and back on the Bright Angel Trail every April. He used to say that he had done it wearing a parka one year and a T shirt the following year; the weather can be that different. He used to make his reservation at the Bright Angel Lodge a year in advance.
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simser
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Post by simser on Aug 26, 2015 18:04:13 GMT -5
I went over Xmas once and I couldn't see the canyon when the clouds were there due to the snow.
I love going in the summer, but so does everyone else who lives in phoenix. It's about 40 degrees cooler there than in the valley, no matter when you go. October or April would be my choice if I was flying in.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 27, 2015 0:47:54 GMT -5
Have you considered going in the March/April time frame? Not 110 and not 30. Likely to be beautiful, and manageable. I agree that April is probably the optimum. I had a hiking buddy who used to do the down to the river and back on the Bright Angel Trail every April. He used to say that he had done it wearing a parka one year and a T shirt the following year; the weather can be that different. He used to make his reservation at the Bright Angel Lodge a year in advance. Another thing - go down during the full moon (or close.) The canyon at night is amazing in the moonlight. It is all spectacular and black and white - like a life action Ansel Adams photo. I am a firm believer that Easter weekend is by far the best time to see the canyon.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 27, 2015 9:05:25 GMT -5
I agree that April is probably the optimum. I had a hiking buddy who used to do the down to the river and back on the Bright Angel Trail every April. He used to say that he had done it wearing a parka one year and a T shirt the following year; the weather can be that different. He used to make his reservation at the Bright Angel Lodge a year in advance. Another thing - go down during the full moon (or close.) The canyon at night is amazing in the moonlight. It is all spectacular and black and white - like a life action Ansel Adams photo. I am a firm believer that Easter weekend is by far the best time to see the canyon. Wow, a full moon hike in the GC must be spectacular!
We would do full moon hikes in the county park where I was a docent (Spur Cross Ranch) and I loved it but the GC would be a whole different level.
I did love seeing the petroglyphs by moonlight; you see so much more detail than in the sun.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 27, 2015 9:08:57 GMT -5
I'm totally jealous though. Been to the canyon at least half a dozen times but never got to hike down. Someday. And you're a native? Lol, I've had the same problem here in CA. I finally went to Alcatraz two years ago and I was born less than 50 miles away. Ditto for Mono, June and Bass Lakes. Hoping to finally make it to Mt. Whitney next year!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 27, 2015 9:42:52 GMT -5
Ho Ha. I went to the grand canyon and alcatraz years ago but never went inside Washington's headquarters even though I lived three miles down the road from it and passed it most days driving. DH wants to go to the grand canyon. I remember how crowded it was in the summer and know at this point he couldn't hike down to the bottom. He has arthritis in his hip at this point. Just walking around the rim would probably put him in pretty good pain for a few days. No idea what he would do in that kind of pain at the bottom of the canyon knowing he had to hike back up. I probably could do it, but thruthfully, I don't want to. I know this makes me a bad person, but having to hike 6 or 7 hours down a cliff and them have to hike another 8 or ten hours back up sounds like something you make someone do to punish someone, not a vacation!!
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 27, 2015 10:42:42 GMT -5
I wish I had hiked to the bottom 10 yrs ago (when I was younger). I could still do it now but I just think the aches and pains would make it not near as enjoyable as it would have been a while back. I still want to get to the bottom though. There used to be a company that offered jeep tours to the bottom of the south rim. I haven't looked into it lately. I hope this is still an option.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 27, 2015 18:19:11 GMT -5
I wish I had hiked to the bottom 10 yrs ago (when I was younger). I could still do it now but I just think the aches and pains would make it not near as enjoyable as it would have been a while back. I still want to get to the bottom though. There used to be a company that offered jeep tours to the bottom of the south rim. I haven't looked into it lately. I hope this is still an option. Not in the National Park. Maybe out of Peach Springs? You can drive your car down to the river if you get a permit. That's on the Hualapai Reservation and where the "Skywalk" overlooks part of the Canyon (outside the park). The NP is huge at 300 miles but the Canyon is even bigger. It's one amazing place.
For a different view of the park you can go to the Havasupai reservation and see these magnificent falls: www.thecanyon.com/havasupai-falls
Yes they really are that beautiful.
You can hike, mule or take a helicopter ride.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 27, 2015 19:52:47 GMT -5
I am a firm believer that Easter weekend is by far the best time to see the canyon.
When we lived in Flagstaff a friend and I got up at 3:30am to drive to GC for Easter Sunrise Service. It was snooooowwwwwing .......... so hard we were speeding about 5 MHP on highway 180 going out of Flag.
When you fly into Phx remember that Flag is 130+ miles north and higher elevation .......... 1,000 ft vs 7,000 ft. Then south rim of the Canyon is another 90 miles of a twisty mountain road. If a snow storm comes in Dec you might have road closures or very icy roads. We go to Flag the first weekend in Dec and drive our 4x4 ...... you never know.
It sounds like a great trip for you but see how flexible your terms can be.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 27, 2015 21:16:43 GMT -5
I have never hiked it, and frankly, I am so lazy I am not sure I ever will. We did the raft trip. It takes 10 days to get from Lee's Ferry to Lake Mead. We did the 7 day one and took a helicopter out - that was freakin' awesome. Our friends did the 3 day one and helicoptered in to the same place we helicoptered out (not the same week - just in general.) I think that is the way to see the canyon - the raft company does all the work, you just hang out and say "Wow! This is cool."
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 28, 2015 10:00:21 GMT -5
I have never hiked it, and frankly, I am so lazy I am not sure I ever will. We did the raft trip. It takes 10 days to get from Lee's Ferry to Lake Mead. We did the 7 day one and took a helicopter out - that was freakin' awesome. Our friends did the 3 day one and helicoptered in to the same place we helicoptered out (not the same week - just in general.) I think that is the way to see the canyon - the raft company does all the work, you just hang out and say "Wow! This is cool." I have yet to do the raft trip but want to. I keep saying to myself that I can hold off on these more passive trips (ditto for cruises) when I'm older and can't hike.
Hiking is just a different way of connecting to the canyon. I can't really describe what it felt when I did the rim to rim and was completely alone for a few miles. It's just wondrous. I can imagine what it must have been like for the Native Americans (this was Supai territory until we kicked them out) because there were so few people in the area even though they had lived there for thousands of years.
ETA: GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl, if you are going to spend any time in Phoenix there are two must-sees;
1. Heard Museum-a first class museum devoted to telling the story of American Indians. You will see some of the best collections of Native American art including Barry Goldwater's collection of Kachinas.
heard.org/
2. Desert Botanical Garden: www.dbg.org/
The collection is more than just the Sonoran Desert. But it does a fantastic job of showing how diverse and lush the area is.
Also if you haven't picked hotels yet I highly recommend the two A Loft hotels; either at the airport or in Tempe.
Have fun!
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 28, 2015 10:55:03 GMT -5
You've already gotten a lot of great advice. I'd definitely recommend you keep checking with Phantom Ranch for reservations, at the very least for some meals. There is a good chance the pipes will be frozen so you will want to pack in all of your water. Water plus camping gear can be quite heavy. I'd say plan on a pack weight between 25-35 lbs depending on your frame. If you can hike South Kaibab do that one on the way down because it is steeper than Bright Angel.
Have fun! I've only hiked to the bottom once (North to South) and I really want to go back and try Kaibab and staying at Phantom.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 28, 2015 13:57:41 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your replies and copious amounts of Grand Canyon wisdom. A few thoughts/responses in no particular order: 1. So, I must have slept through that particular 6th grade Geography lesson, but I had no idea that Arizona was anything but flat desert (okay, except for Red Rocks, LOL). I also did not know that the South Rim is at 7,000 feet. We have no experience with that height, so THANK YOU for pointing it out -- we will definitely need to add some days to acclimate. 2. While an early Spring or Fall trip would be the best time, weather-wise, the kids are in school and can't do it then for at least 5 years (and then, hopefully, gainfully employed). 3. I know it is about a 5 hour drive from Phoenix to the South Rim. I have read that I should plan to avoid Route 180 because it closes in snow storms. We'd take the longer route to avoid becoming one of those families who get stuck on a closed, deserted road and who then turn to cannibalism to survive until the Spring thaw. 4. I TOTALLY want to do the hike. -- if possible, as Bonny described using the two different trails. From what I have read and the pictures I have seen, the rim and the bottom are two entirely different worlds/experiences. It WILL be arduous, but we WILL train (I'm thinking hiking up the Boston Marathon's Heartbreak Hill with a 35 pound pack on my back would be a good weekday workout with trail climbs in Vermont and New Hampshire on the weekends.") We tend to be "active" vacationers anyway, save for our annual one week at a Maine cottage where we all get fairly bored by week's end. YDS has the makings of a naturally-gifted photographer, so he'd have many opportunities to work his craft on the hike. I have checked out the Phantom Ranch and will keep an eye on vacancies. We still need the option, though, to cook for the DSs because of their food allergies (I suspect that the bottom of the Grand Canyon in December is not the best place to go into anaphylaxis, .) 5. The rafting trip IS cool, and I have extended family who have done it TWICE because they found it to be deeply spiritual, but it isn't my first choice. I'd rather be a little cool camping in December for a couple of days than be on a weeklong water ride in wet clothes and without a blow dryer and mirror. (J/K!!!) 6. Yes, we will have to have buffer dates on both ends of the trip -- not only do we have to plan for snow in Arizona, we also have to plan for snow delays getting out of Boston. The nice thing is the way Christmas and New Year's fall this year gives YDS 2 weeks off from school (ODS HAS 6!!! weeks off from college so his schedule is not an issue). So, there is a chance we could pull it off. It would be nice if we could also get to the Yavusapai Falls (we swim in Maine -- the pools at the Falls can't be any colder than the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Maine in early July is, LOL). We'd also like to check out Flagstaff and Phoenix -- not sure when we would ever be back that way. I am most just curious if it would be desolate at the Grand Canyon during the holidays. I don't necessarily want to be the only ones in the area -- no need to be easy pickings for mountain lions, LOL. Off to do some more research and planning...open to any other advice/suggestions, so please keep them coming!!
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 28, 2015 14:22:41 GMT -5
As long as you have some buffer days in there it sounds like an awesome trip. I'm still totally jealous. The altitude usually doesn't bother people, but it might be a good idea to spend a day or two seeing Flag and Williams first. If you're driving from Phoenix you could consider going through Sedona and Oak Creek. Gorgeous country, but the drive up Oak Creek can be dicey in bad weather. Hey, in a few weeks, you'll be living within a day trip's distance, right? You can do it in March when the girls are on vacation!!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Aug 28, 2015 14:27:58 GMT -5
As long as you have some buffer days in there it sounds like an awesome trip. I'm still totally jealous. The altitude usually doesn't bother people, but it might be a good idea to spend a day or two seeing Flag and Williams first. If you're driving from Phoenix you could consider going through Sedona and Oak Creek. Gorgeous country, but the drive up Oak Creek can be dicey in bad weather.Or I-17
True story; the time we did the down and up on the Bright Angel in a day (about 13 mi RT) the guy who invited us and a buddy climbed out about 30 minutes before us and drove home right away. My girlfriend and I stayed for lunch and left about an hour later. Instead of the "quick way back" via I-17 we took the Oak Creek road back. We arrived home before them as a snow storm and subsequent accidents closed I-17 for four hours. (My bladder hurts thinking about that!). I think we saw one snow flurry just as we were taking the exit for the valley otherwise we had no idea how bad it was.
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mcsangel2
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Post by mcsangel2 on Aug 28, 2015 16:12:44 GMT -5
I am most just curious if it would be desolate at the Grand Canyon during the holidays. I don't necessarily want to be the only ones in the area -- no need to be easy pickings for mountain lions, LOL. If by holidays, you mean when schools are out, the GC will be busy.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 28, 2015 16:39:17 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your replies and copious amounts of Grand Canyon wisdom. A few thoughts/responses in no particular order: 1. So, I must have slept through that particular 6th grade Geography lesson, but I had no idea that Arizona was anything but flat desert (okay, except for Red Rocks, LOL). I also did not know that the South Rim is at 7,000 feet. We have no experience with that height, so THANK YOU for pointing it out -- we will definitely need to add some days to acclimate. 2. While an early Spring or Fall trip would be the best time, weather-wise, the kids are in school and can't do it then for at least 5 years (and then, hopefully, gainfully employed). 3. I know it is about a 5 hour drive from Phoenix to the South Rim. I have read that I should plan to avoid Route 180 because it closes in snow storms. We'd take the longer route to avoid becoming one of those families who get stuck on a closed, deserted road and who then turn to cannibalism to survive until the Spring thaw. 4. I TOTALLY want to do the hike. -- if possible, as Bonny described using the two different trails. From what I have read and the pictures I have seen, the rim and the bottom are two entirely different worlds/experiences. It WILL be arduous, but we WILL train (I'm thinking hiking up the Boston Marathon's Heartbreak Hill with a 35 pound pack on my back would be a good weekday workout with trail climbs in Vermont and New Hampshire on the weekends.") We tend to be "active" vacationers anyway, save for our annual one week at a Maine cottage where we all get fairly bored by week's end. YDS has the makings of a naturally-gifted photographer, so he'd have many opportunities to work his craft on the hike. I have checked out the Phantom Ranch and will keep an eye on vacancies. We still need the option, though, to cook for the DSs because of their food allergies (I suspect that the bottom of the Grand Canyon in December is not the best place to go into anaphylaxis, .) 5. The rafting trip IS cool, and I have extended family who have done it TWICE because they found it to be deeply spiritual, but it isn't my first choice. I'd rather be a little cool camping in December for a couple of days than be on a weeklong water ride in wet clothes and without a blow dryer and mirror. (J/K!!!) 6. Yes, we will have to have buffer dates on both ends of the trip -- not only do we have to plan for snow in Arizona, we also have to plan for snow delays getting out of Boston. The nice thing is the way Christmas and New Year's fall this year gives YDS 2 weeks off from school (ODS HAS 6!!! weeks off from college so his schedule is not an issue). So, there is a chance we could pull it off. It would be nice if we could also get to the Yavusapai Falls (we swim in Maine -- the pools at the Falls can't be any colder than the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Maine in early July is, LOL). We'd also like to check out Flagstaff and Phoenix -- not sure when we would ever be back that way. I am most just curious if it would be desolate at the Grand Canyon during the holidays. I don't necessarily want to be the only ones in the area -- no need to be easy pickings for mountain lions, LOL. Off to do some more research and planning...open to any other advice/suggestions, so please keep them coming!! Hey, its an educational trip. Geology, geography, American history, anthropology, and physical education all rolled into one. If you throw in a "what I did/saw/learned on my trip to the GC" report, it also becomes an English lesson. Visit Taliesin West, near Phoenix, to learn about architecture, design, Frank Lloyd Wright, and why a prairie style building is designed the way it is (this brings in a little meteorology and maybe a little math, if you get into how the scale of various features affects visual appeal (and you get to learn about Leonardo Fibonacci and his golden mean)). Or visit the Titan Missile Museum, in Sahuraita (about 25 miles south of Tucson), and learn about/discuss the Cold War (that's more history, some sociology, and some psychology). As important as classroom learning is, vacation can be pretty darn educational, too. A kid (or a parent) should be so lucky.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Aug 28, 2015 16:44:34 GMT -5
I am most just curious if it would be desolate at the Grand Canyon during the holidays. I don't necessarily want to be the only ones in the area -- no need to be easy pickings for mountain lions, LOL. If you stick to the main trails and the South Rim you are pretty much guaranteed to always have other people around you. You can check to see if the campsites are fully booked as you get closer to get an idea of how busy it will be. There is also a ranger at all of the campgrounds that will check-in and see that everything is okay.
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