Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 17:02:35 GMT -5
Netflix has recently announced that they will offer up to one year of unlimited parental leave for women and men. That's right, one year.
Several other companies have started offering more time off as well. Adobe announced it will allow up to 26 paid maternity leave and 16 weeks for paternity leave for fathers who are primary care givers. Microsoft is now offering up to 20 weeks of maternity leave.
www.cnn.com/2015/08/10/health/paid-parental-leave/index.html
Also, some are starting to state that paid parental leave is a right, not a favor.
www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/eisenman-netflix-parental-leave/
What do you think is fair as far as parental leave? Mandated or otherwise? Do you think the U.S needs radical change in this area?
What is your employer's policy?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 17:07:25 GMT -5
I think the current law is fine as is. I view childbirth as a medical issue, and it should be covered under laws/policies that cover any type of medical absence at work. As far as an employer should be concerned, taking time off for a knee replacement or heart attack should be no different than that for having a baby.
At least that's how I look at it.
I'm fine with employers electing to offer more parental leave if they choose, but many businesses can't absorb the cost of paying for an unproductive employee for six months to a year. At that point, the employee might get pregnant again and take off another six months to a year and be gone for 2-3 years, or most of it. It's just not realistic. Plus, is it fair to the other employees who don't have kids to cover for you for that length of time?
And I'm concerned that such policies would discourage employers from hiring women of childbearing age. Be careful what you wish for.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 17:08:39 GMT -5
I work for the feds. I haven't researched it, but as far as I know, you can take any amount of paid sick leave you want, if you have enough. But any unpaid leave is treated as under the FMLA.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on Aug 11, 2015 17:09:54 GMT -5
I think six months should be mandatory and paid for.
We should join the rest of the advanced world, which actually offers up to one year...with no job retaliation because you are a new mother and took the time off.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 11, 2015 17:10:33 GMT -5
What do you think of the system Canada has? I think Rainyday explained that parental leave is paid for through a tax on all.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 11, 2015 18:42:10 GMT -5
I don't see it as fair at all to give extra time off for getting children. FMLA allows 12 weeks paid or unpaid and if they don't want to come back you can replace them. While the employee is out you have a gap in work other employees can try to cover but you aren't allowed to hire a replacement. We had a payroll clerk take 3 FMLA leaves once to have a baby. Other employees had to get out payroll and we hired a temp for some data entry but only the clerk knew how to file some reports and handle other things. She would come back to a mess that needed straighten up and back log of work. With the baby she came in once a week to help the temp and was only out 5 weeks. The other two were drug rehab so she didn't come in at all. Baby daddy was also an employee but he could be easily replaced by calling the union. With these proposals we would be paying two people for many months because they decided to have a baby. For her to get 20 weeks paid vacation and the daddy get 16 weeks means we were paying for 36 weeks off including medical insurance and more time accruing for sick and vacation so stretching it out to almost a year of the cost of one employee.
We had one employee who on a prior job decided to have a baby and as soon as she was done she saw she had enough sick and vacation left to have another so had babies two years in a row. The dad is a SAHD so other than time off work the babies didn't cost much. If she got paid 6 months for each baby she might have had one every year that she worked at that company.
Would you hire young women if you knew they might take half the time off that they work for you? If a man young or old fathers children he gets 16 weeks off as primary caregiver so he could father several a year and never have to work as long as named primary caregiver.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:52:33 GMT -5
I would be down with a year unpaid as an option. Had I had that much off I probably wouldn't have quit after my first. I wasn't ready to go back at 3 months, but I think at a year I would have been. Nursing was wrapping up, DS was sleeping through the night, the first time Mom jitters were mellowing out and I was ready to be around people more. BTW, with kid #2 I was ready to go back at 3 months.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Aug 11, 2015 18:53:08 GMT -5
I think six months should be mandatory and paid for. We should join the rest of the advanced world, which actually offers up to one year...with no job retaliation because you are a new mother and took the time off. This. Though I would also be in favor of 9 months or a year. It's a society issue, not a medical issue related to females. Staying home with new babies for the first 6 months to a year is beneficial to baby and mom, in most cases. Plus, that can lead to more women choosing to go back to work, which decreases company costs with regards to hiring and training.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 11, 2015 19:06:31 GMT -5
I think six months would be a good starting point for paid parental leave. That would mean a two parent household could be at home if they chose for the first year. It would also provide an opportunity to hire a temp worker. The biggest issue with only 12 weeks of unpaid leave, is that many parents come back exhausted and unproductive, and they aren't gone long enough to make it worthwhile to hire a temp.
One of my very close co-workers had a baby, and she was put on bed rest and then only had three weeks after the birth with her baby. She was stressed and exhausted and as the person who had to do her job and mine so was I. It would have been less stressful for both of us if she had longer paid leave and there was a temp that we could train to take over at least some of the work. Not to mention, it would be a great opportunity for people looking for a job to get additional experience and contacts and it would be good for employers to have potential permanent employees on tap for when there is an opening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:08:14 GMT -5
My company gives a week paid. A year IMO is ridiculous, and in my experience companies do not hire extra people when folks are out on leave, they toss the extra work on other employees who already have a full desk who get nothing for the extra work.
Folks that can't have kids not only get that pain but then get to pick up the slack at work for a year for those who can? We already pay higher taxes, which I get everyone paying for education, but when is it going too far?
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 11, 2015 19:15:55 GMT -5
Several years ago I was talking to a lady from Canada and she told me her sister had two (2) years off paid maternity leave when she had her baby. I came unglued. She could have a baby every two years on the tax payer dime.
My thought is ........ why should I pay for them to choose to have babies?
Most of the women I knew having babies did just fine with 6 weeks off. Six weeks is the usual time to be released from Dr. care.
Personal responsibility and it's something you plan for.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 11, 2015 19:19:15 GMT -5
Government should stay out of it.
DH owned a small business with 3 employees. Only had 1 employee pregnant in that time but if he had to pay her for any time plus a replacement weight as well have closed the doors.
If company's want to offer as a benefit good for them.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Aug 11, 2015 19:25:52 GMT -5
Several years ago I was talking to a lady from Canada and she told me her sister had two (2) years off paid maternity leave when she had her baby. I came unglued. She could have a baby every two years on the tax payer dime. My thought is ........ why should I pay for them to choose to have babies? Most of the women I knew having babies did just fine with 6 weeks off. Six weeks is the usual time to be released from Dr. care. Personal responsibility and it's something you plan for. If I had 2 years aid leave per kid I could have worked 2 months in 5 1/2 years when I had my 3. Could have got more with better planning.
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quince
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Post by quince on Aug 11, 2015 19:31:42 GMT -5
For me, fuck the whole thing if it is only maternity leave. It needs to be parental leave, and outside of the medical requirements for childbirth, should be equal for fathers and mothers.
I'm extremely reluctantly pro-parental leave, 3-6 months. I think there have been studies done in the nations that have this showing positive societal effect, else I would be adamantly anti. Personally, I think people should plan and pay for their choices, to the point of ideally, paying for their medical costs of a normal, healthy childbirth. I wouldn't like it if things actually changed in that direction, because people would skimp on care, but to me, in an ideal world, people plan and make choices appropriately.
In the world we live in? 3-6 months. Both parents. And NOT mandatory for the parents to take the leave.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Aug 11, 2015 19:39:14 GMT -5
I think it should be at least 12 weeks paid for both parents and includes adoption.
Parents have enough to worry about then having to cover the time off of work. It makes for happier parents and happier babies to have more bonding time. Women will be less likely to quit their jobs after returning because they felt too rushed going back and felt that they were missing too much.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 19:46:06 GMT -5
I think six months should be mandatory and paid for. We should join the rest of the advanced world, which actually offers up to one year...with no job retaliation because you are a new mother and took the time off. Most of the rest of the "advanced" world does this because they have significant demographic issues. Simply put, they aren't having enough babies, and the government is trying to incentivize it.
We aren't having that problem here in the U.S.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 19:50:53 GMT -5
The question is, who should pay for this?
Many businesses cannot float the cost of having an employee out for six months to a year.
And is it fair for the taxpayers to pay for it? Do we need to have yet another entitlement? After all, having kids is entirely optional. Why should the rest of us pay for your choices?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:55:00 GMT -5
What do you think of the system Canada has? I think Rainyday explained that parental leave is paid for through a tax on all. I don't know of any government mandated system that pays up to 2 years, that had to be company specific and not paid through taxes. Our system is up to a year, paid EI benefits of 55% of your income up to about $460/week. It can be used by father or mother, or split any way they choose.
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travelnut11
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Post by travelnut11 on Aug 11, 2015 21:24:36 GMT -5
And I'm concerned that such policies would discourage employers from hiring women of childbearing age. Be careful what you wish for. This is what has always concerned me about extensive paid maternity leave. It might be better if it was for parental leave (less discriminatory) but I have a feeling many men still wouldn't use it. I'm probably a rare bird but I was 100% ready to go back to work after my 12 week maternity leave and I think daycare is good for my kid. I still feel guilty my co-workers had to cover my stuff while I was gone...I don't think it's fair to expect others to do so for months on end.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 11, 2015 21:40:04 GMT -5
I have very mixed feelings about it.
Where I am from you had one year of unpaid leave. But...that was a socialist country, so you do the math.
yes, I think it's a great thing for parents to be able to stay home with the child for at least 6 months
no, I don't think it's practical in any kind of for-profit business and even non-profit to allow employees to do that
And while there are so many "studies" on how that kind of leave would make employees more loyal, I don't buy it.
No offense to anyone on "kids" thread, but there were more than once a post where a person was contemplating leaving the job but didn't want to loose the leave. How long would they really stay at a job after taking the leave? And I've heard it IRL as well - women don't stay at a job after the fact simply bc maternity leave was great. Once they are done having kid(s) - they start looking for the job that they want.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 11, 2015 21:41:36 GMT -5
So a couple of companies are offering very generous maternity/paternity leaves. That does not mean companies across the nation must follow suit or that the federal government is going to mandate same.
Don't get too worked up over it. It will not become mandatory anytime soon, if ever.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Aug 11, 2015 21:54:32 GMT -5
Several years ago I was talking to a lady from Canada and she told me her sister had two (2) years off paid maternity leave when she had her baby. I came unglued. She could have a baby every two years on the tax payer dime. My thought is ........ why should I pay for them to choose to have babies? Most of the women I knew having babies did just fine with 6 weeks off. Six weeks is the usual time to be released from Dr. care. Personal responsibility and it's something you plan for. My boss feels the same way. She actually told me to drop my 6 week old baby off at daycare and get back to work despite my company have a 12 week paid parental leave policy. I told her I would be back at the end of 12 weeks. Our work is not that hard to resource, it just kills her because she only got 2 weeks paid when she had her kids 20+ years ago. It burns her up that men get the same leave. I applaud my company, google, adobe and others who are embracing a more progressive stance and look forward to the day when all these old-school thinkers are out of the workforce.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 11, 2015 22:15:57 GMT -5
I have very mixed feelings about it. Where I am from you had one year of unpaid leave. But...that was a socialist country, so you do the math. yes, I think it's a great thing for parents to be able to stay home with the child for at least 6 months no, I don't think it's practical in any kind of for-profit business and even non-profit to allow employees to do that And while there are so many "studies" on how that kind of leave would make employees more loyal, I don't buy it. No offense to anyone on "kids" thread, but there were more than once a post where a person was contemplating leaving the job but didn't want to loose the leave. How long would they really stay at a job after taking the leave? And I've heard it IRL as well - women don't stay at a job after the fact simply bc maternity leave was great. Once they are done having kid(s) - they start looking for the job that they want. I can't speak to the statistics at large, but I've seen numerous cases where a woman will take maternity leave, then quit right after.
From talking with my sister and a few other women, the maternity leave policy didn't really have much influence on their ultimate loyalty to the employer.
But as I said, if some employers want to offer it, more power to them.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 11, 2015 22:29:20 GMT -5
There are lots of benefits that some people get that I have never got anything from.
Heck just from the cost for health insurance benefits we are way behind! We probably spend $10K a year subsidizing others bad health in our premiums. It is a small group and cost is based on past claims. We have barely put in any in the past 6 years, and everyone else is in pretty bad shape from the amount of issues they have.
So how do I get that money back since benefits are supposed to be fair?
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Aug 11, 2015 22:46:04 GMT -5
I can't speak to the statistics at large, but I've seen numerous cases where a woman will take maternity leave, then quit right after. From talking with my sister and a few other women, the maternity leave policy didn't really have much influence on their ultimate loyalty to the employer. But as I said, if some employers want to offer it, more power to them. That's totally anecdotal. There are just as many cases of women whose generous company maternity leave (or family friendly work life) made going back to work easier and something they wanted to do and felt good doing. My company is terrible when it comes to paid maternity leave (as in, it doesn't exist), but they are family friendly in that the hours are flexible, I can leave to go watch my kiddo do his daycare program that's at 10am and come back, I can occasionally work from home if needed, etc - all of those contributed to me wanting to go back to work, though I would have preferred the option to take 4 or 6 months off with my job still protected.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 11, 2015 23:48:57 GMT -5
I think six months should be mandatory and paid for. We should join the rest of the advanced world, which actually offers up to one year...with no job retaliation because you are a new mother and took the time off. Most of the rest of the "advanced" world does this because they have significant demographic issues. Simply put, they aren't having enough babies, and the government is trying to incentivize it.
We aren't having that problem here in the U.S.
We sort of do. The accepted replacement birth rate is 2.1 kids per woman. We are at 1.9 and only that high due to Hispanics having a high birth rate. The primary driver behind our population growth is immigration, not because we are having enough kids.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 11, 2015 23:52:03 GMT -5
The question is, who should pay for this?
Many businesses cannot float the cost of having an employee out for six months to a year.
And is it fair for the taxpayers to pay for it? Do we need to have yet another entitlement? After all, having kids is entirely optional. Why should the rest of us pay for your choices? Having kids is good for society. Especially the way programs like social security and Medicare are run in this country. Those kids are someday going to be paying for you healthcare and they'll be your doctors and nurses too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 0:05:32 GMT -5
The question is, who should pay for this?
Many businesses cannot float the cost of having an employee out for six months to a year.
And is it fair for the taxpayers to pay for it? Do we need to have yet another entitlement? After all, having kids is entirely optional. Why should the rest of us pay for your choices? Having kids is good for society. Especially the way programs like social security and Medicare are run in this country. Those kids are someday going to be paying for you healthcare and they'll be your doctors and nurses too. How many more do we need to add to the list of things the child-free subsidize for those that have children? There is already significant preference in the tax code, there has to be a limit.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 12, 2015 0:09:37 GMT -5
I have very mixed feelings about it. Where I am from you had one year of unpaid leave. But...that was a socialist country, so you do the math. yes, I think it's a great thing for parents to be able to stay home with the child for at least 6 months no, I don't think it's practical in any kind of for-profit business and even non-profit to allow employees to do that And while there are so many "studies" on how that kind of leave would make employees more loyal, I don't buy it. No offense to anyone on "kids" thread, but there were more than once a post where a person was contemplating leaving the job but didn't want to loose the leave. How long would they really stay at a job after taking the leave? And I've heard it IRL as well - women don't stay at a job after the fact simply bc maternity leave was great. Once they are done having kid(s) - they start looking for the job that they want. I can't speak to the statistics at large, but I've seen numerous cases where a woman will take maternity leave, then quit right after.
From talking with my sister and a few other women, the maternity leave policy didn't really have much influence on their ultimate loyalty to the employer.
But as I said, if some employers want to offer it, more power to them.
I've NEVER seen that. I took a year off and came back. Everyone I know took a year off and came back. Mat leave offers bonding time for new parents, makes breastfeeding easier, and new parents can finally get some sleep. It doesn't come out of the employer's pocket. It's paid through unemployment insurance. Staff doesn't need to do more work, as there are people who only do replacements for mat leave.
(I've never seen two years mat leave. Ever.)
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Aug 12, 2015 0:11:21 GMT -5
Yes because social security and medicare are essentially ponzi schemes that require future taxpayers. Those little statements I used to get from the SS admin (signed up online now) aren't worth the paper they're printed on because as someone in their 30's I expect the system to look a lot different by the time I retire.
As far as the OP's question my answer is to leave the current law as is. You can't keep trying to squeeze more money out of taxpayers and employers for people who choose to have kids. I'm not saying that to make it sound like I have problems with people having kids or going on maternity because I don't and I plan to have kids of my own some day I just don't think the government needs to get any more involved. As aj pointed out the tax code already has plenty of breaks for people who choose to have children and I don't feel the need to pay any more in taxes to subsidize those choices.
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