Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 11, 2015 15:28:18 GMT -5
So, that is still tiny to me. Maybe it's because it is 3 floors of tiny rooms on top of each other. If they were all on the same floor, one could do some creative changes to make it feel bigger. It bugs me that there is no closet at the front door, and that blocked off stairway down to the basement is kind of weird. Also, the kitchen sink, which could be changed out, is just a bar sink -- one wouldn't really cook meals in that kitchen. All that said, I do find tiny houses appealing. Less IS more. Sometimes. This is a trinity house. They were built to have one room on each floor. The history of them is really cool. Now they can sell for $300 plus. Definitely not for everyone (hubs included), but like I said, I have a love for these homes that won't die. ilovebricks.blogspot.com/2009/11/tiny-houses.html?m=1
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 11, 2015 17:26:29 GMT -5
The article is not saying they don't exists, off course they do from the 50's to 70's. The article is stating they are no longer being built; so if you want a started home You have to look for one built in the 1950's. We saw a few of those when we were looking, 3 beds / 1 bath, slab ranch... 900 - 1,000 sqft. Some updated some not. Updated ones were going for 320k+ and not updated ones for ~250k There is no market for them to be built right now. The people that buy the old starter homes mostly buy them because that is what they can afford. A brand new starter home would add $25-50K or so to the price in my market, so a 15-30% premium on having it be new. Only if you could afford the extra money, then most probably don't want a small starter home & would buy something bigger that wasn't brand new.
People want bigger homes now. They want walk-in closets, master baths, 5 piece master baths, large kitchens, etc. Old starter homes don't have those things. New homes aren't 850 sf because you can't fit all that plus 3 bedrooms into that amount of space.
Even if everything was incredibly high-end, no one would come to my house & say "this is exactly what I want". The kitchen is a dinky galley kitchen where you have to stand to one side to open the stove or freezer, there is no real dining room, my family room is very small, the "master bath" is actually a bathroom with 2 doors - one of which goes to the hall & the other to the master bedroom, and the bedrooms are very small. Why would you pay a premium to have that brand new when you could buy a house that is 10-20 years old for that price that has way more features & size? People wouldn't, so builders don't build them. Instead they have the low end at around 1500 square feet, but that will cost you $100K more than a 1970's starter home.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 11, 2015 17:48:29 GMT -5
I don't think it's every 20-something, but it's enough to make sure that the demand for basic no frills houses isn't high enough to warrant building those sorts of houses. But, I also don't understand why a starter home should be detached (like the article seems to imply), especially in HCOL areas. In many other countries in the world, duplexes, townhouses, and condos seem to be far more acceptable as not only a starter home, but a forever home. I feel for people who live in VHCOL areas, but no one is required to live in those areas. There are plenty of jobs and opportunities in LCOL areas. Unfortunately, the reality of attached housing in many places in the USA is that it isn't a great investment. Between the HOAs, the low price and the low appreciation rate, many people didn't make any money on their attached housing when profits on SFHs were going through the roof, and then it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Granted in some places, a condo is appreciating nicely - but not where there are a lot of affordable SFH. Add in the hassle of dealing with shared maintenance, which always seems to be a PIA, and the American culture of independence and freedom - they just aren't popular in many places. People in densely populated cities are more open to the idea, because someone who would live in a city wouldn't have as many problems with sharing space and being with a lot of people, as opposed to someone who finds a small town, and then lives outside of that - so they can get "space." Putting someone who wants to live on a 100 acre ranch in a downtown apartment - they are going to be uncomfortable. Just as I would hate living on a 100 acre ranch far away from restaurants and people and shopping and activities and (worst of all) work.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 11, 2015 17:52:58 GMT -5
Starter houses are going away because it is a silly idea. I think newer generations would rather rent versus buying a house they don't really like and want to sell in a few years.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 11, 2015 18:00:57 GMT -5
I think starter homes were for young couples out on their own, starting their families at a young age. Now, millenials arw waiting on all that and living with their parents for longer. It doesn't help that they are weighed down with student loans.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Aug 11, 2015 18:23:22 GMT -5
People mostly don't want what we had as starter homes. A young couple refuses to buy a home that would be ok for 4-5 years then out grown. They want it all from day one so even before marriage they are looking at school districts and a home they can stay in. I had a 1140sq ft house from the 50s after my divorce and my neighbor's was the same. The men living there rented and said they would never buy a house like that. They lived there maybe 7 years as renters. I have seen first time buyers buy huge homes on landscaped lots new construction. You have to wonder how they can do that, maybe family money as down payment. With the cost of buying and selling maybe we should skip the starter houses and go straight for a house you can stay in 10-15 years. My old house was 3/2 for one person because I wanted to be able to sell to more than a single person. I sold in 1994 and the buyer is still there, not his starter house it was his after divorce house too.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 11, 2015 18:58:49 GMT -5
My nephew and his wife just got their first full time positions as assistant professors after getting their PhDs. They bought a 5 bedroom 3 bath home and refer to it as their "starter" home. Oh my.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 11, 2015 19:02:10 GMT -5
I lived in the Boulder, CO area in the 70's and bought a starter home. It was a two bedroom 1/2 bath townhouse that I paid $50K for. Two years later, I sold it for $75K and moved to a single family home. I still considered that a starter home. It was nothing fancy nor was the townhouse.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 11, 2015 19:03:47 GMT -5
I lived in the Boulder, CO area in the 70's and bought a starter home. It was a two bedroom 1/2 bath townhouse that I paid $50K for. Two years later, I sold it for $75K and moved to a single family home. I still considered that a starter home. It was nothing fancy nor was the townhouse. It only had a half bath? No shower or tub??
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 11, 2015 19:15:52 GMT -5
No shower or tub in that 1/2 bath at the townhouse. It was on the same floor with only kitchen, living and dining room. Bedrooms and full bath were on another floor.
I mistyped. It had a bath and a 1/2.
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WholeLottaNothin
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Post by WholeLottaNothin on Aug 11, 2015 19:16:56 GMT -5
My mom likes to joke that she still lives in their starter home. My parents bought it in 1972, a year before my sister was born. They never moved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:46:01 GMT -5
ymam.proboards.com/post/2301783/thread
Yep, I know it was due to the housing crash Tiny. But kudos to the family that made 300% profit in 5 years! That's a winner all day long! I feel bad for all those people who lost their homes, really I do......on the other hand it did allow Dh and I to take advantage of that time and buy a rural family vacation type home on 3 acres; closed in 1/08....we've decided to retire there in 4 yrs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:49:56 GMT -5
Shoot, that copy/paste worked but I wanted to quote tiny's response to my earlier post...sigh.. I'll work on it...
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 11, 2015 19:55:10 GMT -5
ymam.proboards.com/post/2301783/thread
Yep, I know it was due to the housing crash Tiny. But kudos to the family that made 300% profit in 5 years! That's a winner all day long! I feel bad for all those people who lost their homes, really I do......on the other hand it did allow Dh and I to take advantage of that time and buy a rural family vacation type home on 3 acres; closed in 1/08....we've decided to retire there in 4 yrs.
Well, to be fair with the trinity I posted, South Philly was not a hot area back in 2000, so anyone who bought then was going to make a killing on resale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:59:51 GMT -5
Gotcha C.G....thanks.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 11, 2015 20:24:28 GMT -5
My Mom's house is in the city, in an area where there was a building boom following World War II. I'm in the process of getting it ready to sell (any takers?) , but the kitchen & bath do need updating. I'm guessing if I sold it "as is", it'd go for the low 200's, but builders are buying up these old houses & tearing them down, & putting in new houses with all of the bells & whistles, & selling them for between 800,000 & $1M. I'm amazed people are actually buying these huge houses on small lots! Busy, what you describe is extremely common in parts of CNJ I like. No open land really to build on so teardowns are common. Prices of the old usually start around $300K though.
I think by me, some NY commuters prefer the small lots. Less maintenance and yardwork.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 11, 2015 20:27:19 GMT -5
Very cute and nice remodel. Is this a nice, walkable part, of Philly?
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 11, 2015 20:45:52 GMT -5
I guess I just find it hard to believe that there isn't a market for new homes that are 1000 - 1500 sq feet. There are more single people than ever before purchasing homes. I just read an article the other day that stated for the first time ever there are more single women purchasing homes than single men. Couples are waiting to later in life to have children or deciding not to have any at all. I am not saying that everyone should EXPECT to be able to buy a new home. I am just saying that I can't believe there isn't a market for new homes on the smaller side of things. As Tiny pointed out earlier it still makes financial sense for the builder to build these. Ik my view there are a surplus of small homes from years past, at least in my area.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 11, 2015 21:02:08 GMT -5
My mom likes to joke that she still lives in their starter home. My parents bought it in 1972, a year before my sister was born. They never moved. My parents had their house built in 1966, when they were married. Nearly 50 years later they are still there, too. I like old houses, like that one in Philly. I still think of my parents' house as a "new" house.
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cranberry
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Post by cranberry on Aug 11, 2015 21:09:40 GMT -5
I've been following this thread with great interest. I sold a +/- 1000 square foot condo last month and moved into a 564 square foot apartment about 6 weeks ago. It's just my cat and me here. It has taken a few weeks to reconfigure things, but overall, this size home suits me. I could see going maybe up to 700 square feet, maybe 800. Homes that size are few and far between in my area. I spent so much time and energy paring down, that I don't really want to buy a bigger home later and fill it with things. Or buy and maintain a bigger home so that it will be easier to sell later. For these reasons, I wonder if renting is actually the best long term plan for mw. We'll see what happens. I just got here so I'm not ready to move again just yet!
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 12, 2015 7:31:59 GMT -5
I don't see the point of a starter home. It seems like a waste of time and energy to me- I know I am very UN-YM. I am 35 and have been renting since I went to college. I only recently feel like I want to buy something... Honestly until now I didn't know where exactly I wanted to settle down. And honestly even now I am only 70% sure. Chicago is a big city and the neighborhoods change a lot. That gives me pause.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Aug 12, 2015 7:36:00 GMT -5
Neither of us were interested in moving around much. So we bought a house that we thought would fill all our needs for a long time. Good schools, 4 beds, 2.5 baths. DH wanted an unfinished basement and a 2 car garage (though now he wishes he had a 6 car garage or something crazy like that). Anyway, we did pretty good. It isn't perfect but good enough. In the event we were unable to have kids it would have been too big but otherwise ok. With two kids we ended up with, it's a good size.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 12, 2015 7:55:05 GMT -5
I think a lot differently than most people. I can't imagine buying anything and thinking it will be a forever home. I get tired of things and eventually want something new. I also have 20+ years until retirement. I have no earthly idea where I might want to live in retirement.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 12, 2015 8:04:26 GMT -5
I don't see the point of a starter home. It seems like a waste of time and energy to me- I know I am very UN-YM. I am 35 and have been renting since I went to college. I only recently feel like I want to buy something... Honestly until now I didn't know where exactly I wanted to settle down. And honestly even now I am only 70% sure. Chicago is a big city and the neighborhoods change a lot. That gives me pause. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards I made $40k with a $5k investment in 4 years. And that was not even when real estate was crazy hot. If you buy a house and don't take money out of it, you end up with something. Even if you don't maintain it or improve it - it is still worth something. Granted a lot of people lost their shirt on buying a house - but that wasn't a normal market. Markets are all different. In a market like mine where renting is slightly more expensive than purchasing, buying makes a lot of sense, even if you know you aren't going to stay in that house. That is not true in all markets - so you might be doing the right thing.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Aug 12, 2015 8:27:52 GMT -5
I think a lot differently than most people. I can't imagine buying anything and thinking it will be a forever home. I get tired of things and eventually want something new. I also have 20+ years until retirement. I have no earthly idea where I might want to live in retirement. I have a DH and kids tying me down. I was renting while I was single. Not sure what I'd be doing if I still was. Likely a small condo in downtown Boston.
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garion2003
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Post by garion2003 on Aug 12, 2015 8:42:47 GMT -5
I know/known several people who live in southern NH or ME and commute to the north shore or Boston.. I couldn't do it. Unless it was a really well-paying job, couldn't bring myself. When we buy I'm hoping to stay within an hour of the city, preferably on the commuter rail lines in case I do end up getting a job in Boston (which is a goal) But... I would probably die to live in Maine. Kittery is only a 45m drive for me! (but then I'm another 35-40m from Boston, sigh.) I work in Cambridge and was surprised at how many people I have met that work here and live in NH and ME as well! during this winter (I took public transportation) sometimes their commute was shorter than mine!!
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 12, 2015 8:58:40 GMT -5
I don't see the point of a starter home. It seems like a waste of time and energy to me- I know I am very UN-YM. I am 35 and have been renting since I went to college. I only recently feel like I want to buy something... Honestly until now I didn't know where exactly I wanted to settle down. And honestly even now I am only 70% sure. Chicago is a big city and the neighborhoods change a lot. That gives me pause. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards I made $40k with a $5k investment in 4 years. And that was not even when real estate was crazy hot. If you buy a house and don't take money out of it, you end up with something. Even if you don't maintain it or improve it - it is still worth something. Granted a lot of people lost their shirt on buying a house - but that wasn't a normal market. Markets are all different. In a market like mine where renting is slightly more expensive than purchasing, buying makes a lot of sense, even if you know you aren't going to stay in that house. That is not true in all markets - so you might be doing the right thing. I haven't lived in the same place for 4 years since I left my parents home at 18, so it has never made sense for me.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 12, 2015 9:26:35 GMT -5
The article is not saying they don't exists, off course they do from the 50's to 70's. The article is stating they are no linger being built; so if you want a started home You have to look for one built in the 1950's. We saw a few of those when we were looking, 3 beds / 1 bath, slab ranch... 900 - 1,000 sqft. Some updated some not. Updated ones were going for 320k+ and not updated ones for ~250k I think with the exception of immediately following WW2, I don't think that starter houses have ever been the focus of new subdivsions and housing builds. It's just that the standard of what is a starter home has changed drastically. The expectation of being able to buy a brand new house as a first house is something that must be specific to generation Y. Because my grandparents, parents, and friends never thought they would be able to built a new house starting out. Everyone I know bought an older home (some that needed work), with the hope that one day they would be able to move into a larger and/or newer home. Depends on where you are. I designed a ton pofsubdivisions during the boom that were starter home subs. 3/2 -1200 to 1400 sq ft homes. No basements. They went for $90k to $110k. We did several subdivisons that were a step up, and some several steps up. But the successful developers had subdivisions at multiple price points. The areas's biggest home builder had apartments and then once you were in their system, they had owner financing for starter homes and then they had homes that were a step or 2 up. They pulled back before the crash and the business is still going strong. 10 years later and they still have a couple of designs on the shelf because it hasn't made sense to build them.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 12, 2015 9:32:33 GMT -5
I don't see the point of a starter home. It seems like a waste of time and energy to me- I know I am very UN-YM. I am 35 and have been renting since I went to college. I only recently feel like I want to buy something... Honestly until now I didn't know where exactly I wanted to settle down. And honestly even now I am only 70% sure. Chicago is a big city and the neighborhoods change a lot. That gives me pause. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards I made $40k with a $5k investment in 4 years. And that was not even when real estate was crazy hot. If you buy a house and don't take money out of it, you end up with something. Even if you don't maintain it or improve it - it is still worth something. Granted a lot of people lost their shirt on buying a house - but that wasn't a normal market. Markets are all different. In a market like mine where renting is slightly more expensive than purchasing, buying makes a lot of sense, even if you know you aren't going to stay in that house. That is not true in all markets - so you might be doing the right thing. And I lost $20k after being in my house 8 years. I will say buying is cheaper than renting here by $200-$400 a month with the current interest rates.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Aug 12, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5
I made $40k with a $5k investment in 4 years. And that was not even when real estate was crazy hot. If you buy a house and don't take money out of it, you end up with something. Even if you don't maintain it or improve it - it is still worth something. Granted a lot of people lost their shirt on buying a house - but that wasn't a normal market. Markets are all different. In a market like mine where renting is slightly more expensive than purchasing, buying makes a lot of sense, even if you know you aren't going to stay in that house. That is not true in all markets - so you might be doing the right thing. And I lost $20k after being in my house 8 years. I will say buying is cheaper than renting here by $200-$400 a month with the current interest rates. until something breaks and you have to pay for that yourself. that's a reason i haven't wanted to buy yet... I really like having someone else take care of issues. but now that my parents are retired... I can tell them to hop in their car and drive 18 hours to come fix something for me, if it comes with a big price tag
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