swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 3, 2015 13:23:42 GMT -5
ouch, I'm afraid FT fast food workers in NYC are making the same....
Yeah but my $30k goes farther here in potato farmer country. But you're still an uncultured hick.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 3, 2015 13:29:34 GMT -5
Seriously I wish I had a do over
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 3, 2015 13:43:38 GMT -5
Isn't it amazing that in just a few generations we have gone from a society of the greatest generation, who could defend freedom around the world and send men to the moon, to a society of victims, where we are never given enough and the bed of roses is never comfy enough? the greatest generation? You mean that rosy period in history where 12 years olds lost their fingers or worse working 10 hours shifts in factories to feed their younger siblings? First, I think you're a little off track. My use of the media provided "greatest generation" moniker was intended to communicate the message that we, as a society, used to believe that we could do pretty much anything we put our mind to. Even something as outlandish as putting men on the moon. What makes this idea especially astounding is that the first lunar walk occurred just 42 years after Lindbergh made the first nonstop transatlantic flight. What a change compared to today, when so many people seem to think that life should not contain any challenges to be overcome and that, somehow, all of the events in their lives should meet their concept of being "fair". As far as your child labor comments are concerned, they don't really apply to "the greatest generation". However, we need to consider that maybe the generations that preceeded them weren't too great. The first significant federal child labor law, the Fair Labor Standards Act, was enacted in 1938. Before most of what the media refers to as the greatest generation were parents who could send their offspring off to work.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 3, 2015 13:50:35 GMT -5
[quote author=" tskeeter" source="/post/2295624/thread" timestamp="1438618662"Unfortunately, even NYC apparently puts a low market value on watching movies for a lving. That is so not cool, you know how much works it takes to be a movie critic... [/quote] No. But it seems that, as a nation, we are only willing to pay a very, very, very few people enough to make a living at it. It's kind of like becoming President. You've got 435 people in Congress who have the education and experince (we assume) to hold the job. But only two tenths of one percent of Congressmen are going to get hired to sit behind the desk in the oval office. Cause we don't really need more than one person in that job category.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Aug 3, 2015 14:11:45 GMT -5
I thought that free market regulates itself! Is this proof that "trickle down" economics doesn't work? America is nowhere close to a free market. There is government intervention in all parts of the market, from the price of college to who can rent what for how much etc. You're right. Just look at the whole Uber situation.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 3, 2015 15:03:47 GMT -5
First, I think you're a little off track. My use of the media provided "greatest generation" moniker was intended to communicate the message that we, as a society, used to believe that we could do pretty much anything we put our mind to. Even something as outlandish as putting men on the moon. What makes this idea especially astounding is that the first lunar walk occurred just 42 years after Lindbergh made the first nonstop transatlantic flight. What a change compared to today, when so many people seem to think that life should not contain any challenges to be overcome and that, somehow, all of the events in their lives should meet their concept of being "fair". As far as your child labor comments are concerned, they don't really apply to "the greatest generation". However, we need to consider that maybe the generations that preceeded them weren't too great. The first significant federal child labor law, the Fair Labor Standards Act, was enacted in 1938. Before most of what the media refers to as the greatest generation were parents who could send their offspring off to work. both my maternal uncles left school at 12 to support the family. By the time this legislation hit in the late 30's, they were already adults. One of them was later decorated by the president for a number of bombing mission over Germany during WWII. He also felt inadequate all his life and never got over missing the education he felt he should have had. Also - interestingly - you pick up the absolute best pieces of accomplishment over a 50 year period and compare it to a single whiny article written by a relatively unknown person? Really? Let's talk about transplanting faces and hands, growing organs in the lab, and other medical breakthroughs, let's talk about the mircocomputer revolution and the internet and cell phone and all those changes and advancements. Likely - 50 - 60 years from now, someone will be lamenting at the incredible work ethic and ingenuity of the millennials compared to the current youth, whose robots do everything for them.....and they still get whiny.... Per Wiki, ""The Greatest Generation" is a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw to describe the generation who grew up in the United States during the deprivation of the Great Depression and then went on to fight in World War II..." Since the majority of WWII combatants were in their late teens and early 20's, that would have most of those folks being born begining around 1920, not 1901. This would put them at the age to start families close to 1940, and to be sending their 10 year olds off to work in factories some time around 1950. More than a decade after the FLSA's child labor laws were enacted. So, did I pick some examples designed to illustrate my point. You bet. I was trying to make a point about the attitude of the people who made up our nation at that point in time. They didn't whine about what they hadn't been given or how things didn't work out the way they had envisioned. They just dreamed really big dreams. And then made those dreams into reality. If you'd like to talk about medical breakthroughs, the greatest generation had a few, too. Do you remember the name Dr. Christiaan Barnard? He performed the second ever kidney transplant and the first ever heart transplant. Born in 1922, Barnard could be considered a member of the greatest generation, too. How about microchips? Jack Kilby, born in 1923, is generally recognized as the father of the microchip. Another member of the greatest generation. Any way you slice it, the group of people that Brokaw called "The Greatest Generation" made some significant accomplishments. But what's more important is that by and large they held the belief that they could accomplish darn near anything. And, despite failure after failure, they kept trying until they persevered. How different from a person who whines that they can't make a comfortable living from their very limited market value graduate degree while choosing to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 3, 2015 15:08:19 GMT -5
both my maternal uncles left school at 12 to support the family. By the time this legislation hit in the late 30's, they were already adults. One of them was later decorated by the president for a number of bombing mission over Germany during WWII. He also felt inadequate all his life and never got over missing the education he felt he should have had. Also - interestingly - you pick up the absolute best pieces of accomplishment over a 50 year period and compare it to a single whiny article written by a relatively unknown person? Really? Let's talk about transplanting faces and hands, growing organs in the lab, and other medical breakthroughs, let's talk about the mircocomputer revolution and the internet and cell phone and all those changes and advancements. Likely - 50 - 60 years from now, someone will be lamenting at the incredible work ethic and ingenuity of the millennials compared to the current youth, whose robots do everything for them.....and they still get whiny.... Per Wiki, ""The Greatest Generation" is a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw to describe the generation who grew up in the United States during the deprivation of the Great Depression and then went on to fight in World War II..." Since the majority of WWII combatants were in their late teens and early 20's, that would have most of those folks being born begining around 1920, not 1901. This would put them at the age to start families close to 1940, and to be sending their 10 year olds off to work in factories some time around 1950. More than a decade after the FLSA's child labor laws were enacted. So, did I pick some examples designed to illustrate my point. You bet. I was trying to make a point about the attitude of the people who made up our nation at that point in time. They didn't whine about what they hadn't been given or how things didn't work out the way they had envisioned. They just dreamed really big dreams. And then made those dreams into reality. If you'd like to talk about medical breakthroughs, the greatest generation had a few, too. Do you remember the name Dr. Christiaan Barnard? He performed the second ever kidney transplant and the first ever heart transplant. Born in 1922, Barnard could be considered a member of the greatest generation, too. How about microchips? Jack Kilby, born in 1923, is generally recognized as the father of the microchip. Another member of the greatest generation. Any way you slice it, the group of people that Brokaw called "The Greatest Generation" made some significant accomplishments. But what's more important is that by and large they held the belief that they could accomplish darn near anything. And, despite failure after failure, they kept trying until they persevered. How different from a person who whines that they can't make a comfortable living from their very limited market value graduate degree while choosing to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. The Greatest Generation had whiners. They just didn't have the internet to publicize their whine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 15:19:21 GMT -5
Omg. Now I'm imagining if Facebook was around during the jello salad decades... Oh the humanity.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 3, 2015 15:34:42 GMT -5
Per Wiki, ""The Greatest Generation" is a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw to describe the generation who grew up in the United States during the deprivation of the Great Depression and then went on to fight in World War II..." Since the majority of WWII combatants were in their late teens and early 20's, that would have most of those folks being born begining around 1920, not 1901. This would put them at the age to start families close to 1940, and to be sending their 10 year olds off to work in factories some time around 1950. More than a decade after the FLSA's child labor laws were enacted. do you or do you not know what the birth years of "the greatest generation" you originally sited were born? can you google it up if you don't? or do you think we can each just make them up? Well, I think Brokaw's definition as quoted by the source you cited is reasonably definitive. They both grew up during the depression and fought in WWII. Since the stock market crash that triggered the great depression was in October 1929, and your source, Wiki, says the great depression lasted until the late 1930's, the members of the greatest generation would be born as early as a few years prior to 1929 and as late as about 1939. No doubt, other sources may cite other periods of time. But, you chose specifically to reference Brokaw as the source. That was especially convenient, since the definition provided by the source you chose to refer to was exactly the period of time and the group of people I had in mind when I used the greatest generation terminology.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Aug 3, 2015 15:37:25 GMT -5
Any way you slice it, the group of people that Brokaw called "The Greatest Generation" made some significant accomplishments. But what's more important is that by and large they held the belief that they could accomplish darn near anything. And, despite failure after failure, they kept trying until they persevered. so do the millennials. and they are going to whine their way to the top, lol! I guess that's the difference, isn't it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 16:02:56 GMT -5
I get sick of this generational bickering, there are achievers and dbags of every generation.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 16:10:17 GMT -5
A few things are missing for me to really judge this article : - her masters degree was in what? - she got a full time job doing what? - how much does she get paid? A quick google search points out that the income guideline for a single person to qualify for food stamps is $1,265/month or $15,180.... She took out 100k in loans to get a full time job paying less than 20k/year? And I thought my wife making 40k/year in academia was nonsense. I get it NYC is expensive, life is not easy etc etc etc. As someone that has been there, done that, got a picture and still moving forward... It's get easier I promise. Either the load gets lighter or you get stronger... You will make it out I'm not going to read this thread, or at least now, because I know what it will mtostly be - bash the person in the article and find all the things they did wrong. Sit back and continue to refuse to understand there is a problem, that not everyone can move, that not everyone will be even hired for jobs they are qualified for.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 16:14:46 GMT -5
Many people do not realize that quite a few eventually high paying jobs start paying not so much, or not enough in the case of those in NYC, San Fran, Seattle, Chicago, etc. One of my fave shows to get from the library to watch on my old TV is Suits. In the last DVD set, season 4, it was explained that Harvey started out making $50K/yr. in NYC. As a lawyer. I'll bet his student loans, if they existed, were big just like most JDs and many MD student loans are. Nature of the beast.
"After all, I did everything I was “supposed to” do. I was one of the first in my family to get my Master’s degree (or finish college at all), and I got a good job—with a 401K and insurance. I pack my lunches every day and scrimp just enough to put money into my savings account when I can. Among my friends, I’m known for being religiously frugal—which is code for “very, very cheap.”
But no matter how well you play by the rules, the cards will continue to be stacked against you in today’s economy—particularly when you’re starting the game with $100,000 in debt. I remember the first time I saw my full student loan balance last year, buried at the bottom of a credit report. At first, my eyes brushed right past it, not realizing what it was, but my brain began to slowly process that number, as the gravity of what I was looking at finally sunk in. It read like a death sentence."
From the article. I do not know what kind of job she got or if the idiot journalist likely living in NYC figured it was not worth stating. NYC is a different world. But here on the Interwebz, people forget that maybe some folks need to start with big ass student loans in order to someday be the high earning lawyer or doctor. Steps off soapbox...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 3, 2015 16:41:52 GMT -5
I can't get over how anyone is able to NOT know how much their student loan balance is. Maybe it varies per loan provider but I know Iowa Liquidty beat me over the head with notices. I'd recieve eight per year concerning interest on my loans (four for sub, four for unsub). Then I'd recieve one at the beginning of each year showing my current balance. Then I'd get another one once the school had been paid showing my adjusted balance. Then one at the end of the year telling me how much I owed after all was said and done. I had to get a binder to keep it all otherwise I would have been buried alive. I could also look it up online, call the loan office or walk down to FA if I wanted to know my balance. By the end of my 4 years I was able to predict almost down to the penny what my final statement was going to say. And i only took out $30k in loans. I can't imagine getting into the six digits and not keeping track.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Aug 3, 2015 17:48:28 GMT -5
I can easily imagine losing track of one's total student loan balance. I only took out about $14K over the course of a year and I knew what they payments would be but I can't tell you what the total was when I graduated. There were only two lenders that I had to worry about, the school that administered the Perkins loans and the DOE which had my Staffords.
The author of this piece probably took out six years of loans, possibly at two or more different institutions. I only had two lenders to satisfy. I can easily see the author of this piece having to deal with at least three different lenders and six or eight is probably more likely.
I was studying accounting. Amortizing interest and storing paper was what I was studying, but I still didn't know the total balance.
Perhaps we should cut the communications major with six years of loans a bit of slack.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 3, 2015 18:04:16 GMT -5
Why? If you're going to run up beau coup school loans for a job paying nothing, then volunteer most of the time, you should be ridiculed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 3, 2015 18:06:45 GMT -5
Isn't it funny we never read about accountants whining on how they can't pay their school loans and not collect food stamps?
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Aug 3, 2015 18:09:40 GMT -5
BFF's first degree was criminal science or justice don't remember the exact name. It was a whole lot of psychology and paper writing and case studies. All the 'required' math and science courses were very simple. None of them were transferable outside of other humanities majors. It was interesting stuff, I enjoyed looking over her assignments for her as a proofreader. However, nothing in the material was particularly difficult to understand or process. It was definitely considered an 'easy A' major. Maybe BFF went to an easy school? I didn't, and the demands were quite heavy, including science (chemistry and physics) and math (calculus). Yes, there was a lot of psychology and sociology along with it. I did well, and did get a fair number of "A" grades. I did it while working part time, taking additional credits, and doing both through the summer so I could graduate with as little debt, as soon as possible from that very good, but rather expensive university. Well she did take a humanities major at the flagship engineering university.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 18:41:45 GMT -5
Isn't it funny we never read about accountants whining on how they can't pay their school loans and not collect food stamps? Its not very funny reading about how bankers will bankrupt the country if we do not give them a billion dollars.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 3, 2015 19:31:23 GMT -5
Yes, it's the fault of the big mean bankers that people with degrees in nothing can't get jobs. No one forces these people to run up thousands of dollars to get a 30-40k a year job. Sorry. No sympathy. Once again, the media trots out the village idiot and we're supposed to feel sorry for them? I'm sorry they're stupid but those unscrupulous lenders were just waiting to pounce!!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 19:39:11 GMT -5
Isn't it funny we never read about accountants whining on how they can't pay their school loans and not collect food stamps? Maybe we don't read the right magazines or websites and/or they are one of the least likely professions to confess issues like this because they know how harshly they will be judged.
I've read quite a few articles over the years, think 1987 and forward, of Wall Streeters who could not pay their bills and may have gotten food stamps. I do know through food pantry workers, that people on Wall Street(i.e. those who work on WS), have in the past used food pantries, etc. I remember competing with them for Mall jobs. Needless to say, they probably made better shoe and appliance sales people compared to me.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 19:40:32 GMT -5
Isn't it funny we never read about accountants whining on how they can't pay their school loans and not collect food stamps? Its not very funny reading about how bankers will bankrupt the country if we do not give them a billion dollars. Didn't that TARP ship already sail? Under two different Presidents in fact?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 3, 2015 19:42:31 GMT -5
I always find that people who feel they've been "cheated" in their lives feel they deserve the fruits of others labor as opposed to getting off their backside and helping themselves.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 19:42:29 GMT -5
I can't get over how anyone is able to NOT know how much their student loan balance is.
Maybe it varies per loan provider but I know Iowa Liquidty beat me over the head with notices. I'd recieve eight per year concerning interest on my loans (four for sub, four for unsub). Then I'd recieve one at the beginning of each year showing my current balance. Then I'd get another one once the school had been paid showing my adjusted balance. Then one at the end of the year telling me how much I owed after all was said and done. I had to get a binder to keep it all otherwise I would have been buried alive. I could also look it up online, call the loan office or walk down to FA if I wanted to know my balance. By the end of my 4 years I was able to predict almost down to the penny what my final statement was going to say. And i only took out $30k in loans. I can't imagine getting into the six digits and not keeping track. I have no idea, and I don't want to check on it. It will only disturb and upset me. ok - so I have an idea - it is likely between 45-50k. Crap. you made me think about it. now I'm disturbed and upset Remember to keep quiet here if it doesn't work out. You will be judged by the vocal folks as a loser.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 3, 2015 19:47:42 GMT -5
I always find that people who feel they've been "cheated" in their lives feel they deserve the fruits of others labor as opposed to getting off their backside and helping themselves. No one, no one, not you, not your hubby, not anyone on the planet got what they got without the fruits of others labor.
The internet - you did not build it Your laptop or internet device - you only purchased or got it. It only exists because many people that are not you created it. (For the sake of all that is holy, lose the Republican I did it myself philoshopy.You didn't. Get over it. Its OK. Really. TY! )
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 3, 2015 19:48:36 GMT -5
Not surprised at all. I expected nothing better.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 3, 2015 21:49:49 GMT -5
I can easily imagine losing track of one's total student loan balance. I only took out about $14K over the course of a year and I knew what they payments would be but I can't tell you what the total was when I graduated. There were only two lenders that I had to worry about, the school that administered the Perkins loans and the DOE which had my Staffords. The author of this piece probably took out six years of loans, possibly at two or more different institutions. I only had two lenders to satisfy. I can easily see the author of this piece having to deal with at least three different lenders and six or eight is probably more likely. I was studying accounting. Amortizing interest and storing paper was what I was studying, but I still didn't know the total balance. Perhaps we should cut the communications major with six years of loans a bit of slack. I can't imagine that either. Even if I didn't know the exact amount, I had a pretty good idea because I was terrified of taking out more loans than I could repay. I didn't take one accounting class. I just think there are some people who either never think about the future, or when they do they have some unrealistic rosy idea of what the future will be. I had had several friends in college who took out extra loans to supplement their lifestyle. Many of them had a tough time when they started working because all of a sudden they had a bunch of bills and no place to go for extra cash.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 23:44:07 GMT -5
My DD's BF just came out of Masters Program for Creative Writing. Jobs in HCOLA offering at $15/hour. OMG they are paying the fast food workers that much here (who aren't worth it in the least). It is ridiculous.
I coached her on negotiating the offer. She did. She will get $16/hour. But seriously this is a CRIME for a job requiring a masters. If you are going to offer that low a pay rate you do not get to demand a masters. WTF?
This gal was a phenomenal creative writer BEFORE she went through formal education. I'm going to be mad about this for a while . . .
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cranberry
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Post by cranberry on Aug 4, 2015 3:23:13 GMT -5
My DD's BF just came out of Masters Program for Creative Writing. Jobs in HCOLA offering at $15/hour. OMG they are paying the fast food workers that much here (who aren't worth it in the least). It is ridiculous. I coached her on negotiating the offer. She did. She will get $16/hour. But seriously this is a CRIME for a job requiring a masters. If you are going to offer that low a pay rate you do not get to demand a masters. WTF? This gal was a phenomenal creative writer BEFORE she went through formal education. I'm going to be mad about this for a while . . . Just curious - what kind of job was this? I have a master's too (also in humanities) and was looking into tutoring jobs for while. One company paid $15/hour but did not pay for any time meeting with teachers or picking up/dropping off required work at schools. An online company paid $10 an hour if you had a bachelor's, $11 for a master's, and $12 for a doctorate. Ridiculous. Adjunct professors get paid pitiful amounts. I'll stick with medical writing. One thing that struck me about the article was that we don't know how the author was using her education. It's great to have the degree and all, but how does she make herself marketable? Is she easy to work with? Does she bring new ideas to the table at her company? Does she get regular raises or promotions? How much time does she spend working? What are her soft skills?
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 4, 2015 7:10:10 GMT -5
My DD's BF just came out of Masters Program for Creative Writing. Jobs in HCOLA offering at $15/hour. OMG they are paying the fast food workers that much here (who aren't worth it in the least). It is ridiculous. I coached her on negotiating the offer. She did. She will get $16/hour. But seriously this is a CRIME for a job requiring a masters. If you are going to offer that low a pay rate you do not get to demand a masters. WTF? This gal was a phenomenal creative writer BEFORE she went through formal education. I'm going to be mad about this for a while . . . It's supply and demand. There is a huge over production of graduate degrees in the humanities and specifically English related graduate degrees. It's the number one reason why no one should ever get a graduate degree in the humanities or social sciences in their own dime. Someone else should be paying for that degree, because the job prospects suck. I am all for an increase of the minimum wage, but if it gets raised to $15 many of those fast food workers will be making about the same as people who went to college or got further training to make themselves more competitive in the market place. And, I suspect those people won't get be getting raise, and I do think it's wrong that high school drop out could be paid close to or the equivalent of someone with additional training.
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