weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 28, 2015 0:03:54 GMT -5
In fact, Trump or no Trump- Obama has put the Democratic Party back where it was with people like McGovern and Carter leading it. Clinton damn near did the impossible restoring people's faith in the Democratic Party on national defense.
Democratic. please stop doing that. it makes you look like a hillbilly. So do the socialism rants. 'The commies are coming! Run for the hills!"
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 28, 2015 0:19:40 GMT -5
Democratic. please stop doing that. it makes you look like a hillbilly. So do the socialism rants. 'The commies are coming! Run for the hills!"
i think it rather interesting that Sanders is doing as well as he is. apparently not everyone is buying the idea that Satan and socialism are pretty much the same thing.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 9:47:13 GMT -5
I can't imagine Trump getting the nod from the Republican Party. He won't play the "party game". Trump strikes me as the type who only wants to play by his own rules. Whether he'll get the nomination is the question, he doesn't appear to need the "nod". Why do you think the GOP leadership is peeing their collective pants right now? You're right about one thing: Trump is a businessman, a deal maker, and entrepreneur. As such, he doesn't play nice with the other kids. He is not a collaborator. He calls meetings, he doesn't merely attend meetings. The purpose of the meetings he calls is not to listen and get ideas, it is to give orders and directions. He does not get mired in specifics and details- he tells people what he wants to accomplish, and he expects them to do it. If it turns out they're the wrong people for the job, he fires them and finds the right person. He'll never, ever, ever have a 27 point plan for muddling through the next century. There will be no " managing the decline" in a Trump administration. Some things he does will anger conservatives, some things he does will anger liberals, but he'll DO SOMETHING G*ddammit and that's going to be enough for a whole lot of people.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 9:48:06 GMT -5
Really? Bernie Sanders wants the state to own all means of production? How utterly idiotic! I do wish some people would understand what socialism really is. Do you consider Canada to be a failed country? Americans call us "socialist" all the time.
i read an article today which identified Canada as the 5th most successful country on the "socialist" spectrum. i found it rather hilarious. Well, yeah- because you'd have to be a moron to use "successful" and "socialist" in the same breath.
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Post by Opti on Aug 12, 2015 10:07:56 GMT -5
I can't imagine Trump getting the nod from the Republican Party. He won't play the "party game". Trump strikes me as the type who only wants to play by his own rules. Whether he'll get the nomination is the question, he doesn't appear to need the "nod". Why do you think the GOP leadership is peeing their collective pants right now? You're right about one thing: Trump is a businessman, a deal maker, and entrepreneur. As such, he doesn't play nice with the other kids. He is not a collaborator. He calls meetings, he doesn't merely attend meetings. The purpose of the meetings he calls is not to listen and get ideas, it is to give orders and directions. He does not get mired in specifics and details- he tells people what he wants to accomplish, and he expects them to do it. If it turns out they're the wrong people for the job, he fires them and finds the right person. He'll never, ever, ever have a 27 point plan for muddling through the next century. There will be no " managing the decline" in a Trump administration. Some things he does will anger conservatives, some things he does will anger liberals, but he'll DO SOMETHING G*ddammit and that's going to be enough for a whole lot of people.I hope conservatives start to get clearer on their talking points, otherwise its going to be like shooting fish in a barrel for me.
Obama did some things. Apparently that is one of the many things conservatives are pissed off about. They are also generally pissed off because he and his administration did not do the things they wanted him to. I think its past time for the American people to act as grownups politicially and be more like Europe. No politician is going to do everything you want, or even close. The head of the country must make compromises. That is why Trump is totally unsuited and some people are apparently having wet dreams over him. They do not get how countries work. How the world is global and it is not 1776 or even 1920 any more.
Cope people, cope. We aren't going back. There is no decline, this is not Rome. Its the age of Aquarius. You can choose to speed up if need be, to catch up, or be left behind moaning about the old days. The choice is yours.
ETA: If you need to live somewhere that is more like a 1950 or 1920 utopia, I do not have any advice for you except that it will not be in the US, most of Europe and progressive Asian countries. The founder of Virgin Mobile would be far better than Trump as a candidate because he at least knows how to collaborate.
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Post by Opti on Aug 12, 2015 10:13:47 GMT -5
i read an article today which identified Canada as the 5th most successful country on the "socialist" spectrum. i found it rather hilarious. Well, yeah- because you'd have to be a moron to use "successful" and "socialist" in the same breath. Or just a moron to be afraid of socialism. Oooh, its out to get you. Yet somehow household socialism of having someone stay home is generally OK.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:14:34 GMT -5
... I think Trump would scare the piss out of our enemies. That typically leads to not war. One of his more consistent positions- against the wars. Also one of the things I like about him. You can be anti-war without being a . “I say that you can defeat ISIS by taking their wealth,” Trump told the Fox News Channel star. “Take back the oil. Once you go over and take back that oil, they have nothing. You bomb the hell out of them, and then you encircle it, and then you go in. And you let Mobil go in, and you let our great oil companies go in. Once you take that oil, they have nothing left.”
He continued: “I would hit them so hard. I would find you a proper general, I would find the Patton or MacArthur. I would hit them so hard your head would spin.”
deadline.com/2015/06/donald-trump-isis-bill-oreilly-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton-video-1201445840/ i think that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, and shows a profound ignorance of the problem.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:17:43 GMT -5
i read an article today which identified Canada as the 5th most successful country on the "socialist" spectrum. i found it rather hilarious. Well, yeah- because you'd have to be a moron to use "successful" and "socialist" in the same breath. you can pick the reason, if you like. but Canada is no more socialist than we are.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 10:22:36 GMT -5
“I say that you can defeat ISIS by taking their wealth,” Trump told the Fox News Channel star. “Take back the oil. Once you go over and take back that oil, they have nothing. You bomb the hell out of them, and then you encircle it, and then you go in. And you let Mobil go in, and you let our great oil companies go in. Once you take that oil, they have nothing left.”
He continued: “I would hit them so hard. I would find you a proper general, I would find the Patton or MacArthur. I would hit them so hard your head would spin.”
deadline.com/2015/06/donald-trump-isis-bill-oreilly-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton-video-1201445840/ i think that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, and shows a profound ignorance of the problem. Actually, it shows a perfect understanding of the problem. I've been saying this since 9/11: Terrorism takes money. They're getting it somewhere. These people that say, oh well, the threat is asymmetrical and there's no state sponsor are full of shit. These oil-rich islamic republics back this bullshit, and if they ever had their supply of funding cut off they'd be out of the terror business. Period.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:24:18 GMT -5
i think that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, and shows a profound ignorance of the problem. Actually, it shows a perfect understanding of the problem. I've been saying this since 9/11: Terrorism takes money. They're getting it somewhere. These people that say, oh well, the threat is asymmetrical and there's no state sponsor are full of shit. These oil-rich islamic republics back this bullshit, and if they ever had their supply of funding cut off they'd be out of the terror business. Period. getting WHAT? have you read "Sleeping With The Devil", Paul? i can almost guarantee that Trump hasn't. edit: terrorism takes very little money. box knives and day jobs will suffice.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 10:24:30 GMT -5
Well, yeah- because you'd have to be a moron to use "successful" and "socialist" in the same breath. you can pick the reason, if you like. but Canada is no more socialist than we are. Right. Thank you for acknowledging both countries are socialist. To the extent we have problems, they are all the result of socialism.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:25:45 GMT -5
you can pick the reason, if you like. but Canada is no more socialist than we are. Right. Thank you for acknowledging both countries are socialist. To the extent we have problems, they are all the result of socialism. just to be clear, neither country is socialist. you're welcome.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 10:27:13 GMT -5
Actually, it shows a perfect understanding of the problem. I've been saying this since 9/11: Terrorism takes money. They're getting it somewhere. These people that say, oh well, the threat is asymmetrical and there's no state sponsor are full of shit. These oil-rich islamic republics back this bullshit, and if they ever had their supply of funding cut off they'd be out of the terror business. Period. getting WHAT? have you read "Sleeping With The Devil", Paul? i can almost guarantee that Trump hasn't. The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. They're funded by the Saudis (Suni) and Iranians (Shia), Qatar, Syria, Libya, Yemen, and everyone of these hives of vermin. I think Trump would make it clear they have to clean up their mess, or we will clean it up for them. I don't think Trump would hesitate to win the war. I think you'd see the end of politically correct warfare with awards for courageous restraint.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:28:49 GMT -5
getting WHAT? have you read "Sleeping With The Devil", Paul? i can almost guarantee that Trump hasn't. The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. who? ISIS?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 12, 2015 10:32:22 GMT -5
“I say that you can defeat ISIS by taking their wealth,” Trump told the Fox News Channel star. “Take back the oil. Once you go over and take back that oil, they have nothing. You bomb the hell out of them, and then you encircle it, and then you go in. And you let Mobil go in, and you let our great oil companies go in. Once you take that oil, they have nothing left.”
He continued: “I would hit them so hard. I would find you a proper general, I would find the Patton or MacArthur. I would hit them so hard your head would spin.”
deadline.com/2015/06/donald-trump-isis-bill-oreilly-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton-video-1201445840/ i think that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, and shows a profound ignorance of the problem. Or brilliant if your goal is to hook conservatives.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:34:23 GMT -5
i think that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, and shows a profound ignorance of the problem. Or brilliant if your goal is to hook conservatives. terrorism is the least costly form of warfare. that is one of the main reasons it is so hard to defeat. example: an IED costs between $30 and $300. we have billion dollar equipment deployed to defeat it. we seem to think money is the answer to everything. it isn't. edit: Trump is giving simple answers to complex questions, and that is quite gratifying. other than the fact that they are all wrong.
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Post by Opti on Aug 12, 2015 10:35:50 GMT -5
Right. Thank you for acknowledging both countries are socialist. To the extent we have problems, they are all the result of socialism. just to be clear, neither country is socialist. you're welcome. I think we need a new Idiocy movie. I even volunteer to help with it. It will take all the stupid conservative memes, especially those connected with Socalism and Islam and put some facts plus truth on them.
Maybe some conservatives have changed from liberal not because they grew up, but because they became jaded and lost hope. That might be why some really stupid beliefs about socialism and Islam are so popular. They no longer have open minds and hope to look at what is, with open eyes and open hearts.
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 12, 2015 10:37:51 GMT -5
getting WHAT? have you read "Sleeping With The Devil", Paul? i can almost guarantee that Trump hasn't. The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. They're funded by the Saudis (Suni) and Iranians (Shia), Qatar, Syria, Libya, Yemen, and everyone of these hives of vermin. I think Trump would make it clear they have to clean up their mess, or we will clean it up for them. I don't think Trump would hesitate to win the war. I think you'd see the end of politically correct warfare with awards for courageous restraint. Sounds great, except, how do you propose we "clean it up"?
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:38:59 GMT -5
just to be clear, neither country is socialist. you're welcome. I think we need a new Idiocy movie. I even volunteer to help with it. It will take all the stupid conservative memes, especially those connected with Socalism and Islam and put some facts plus truth on them.
Maybe some conservatives have changed from liberal not because they grew up, but because they became jaded and lost hope. That might be why some really stupid beliefs about socialism and Islam are so popular. They no longer have open minds and hope to look at what is, with open eyes and open hearts.
angry....bitter....taxed enough...... we are at war with human sympathy, kindness, and understanding. and, indeed, all three are losing.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:40:37 GMT -5
The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. They're funded by the Saudis (Suni) and Iranians (Shia), Qatar, Syria, Libya, Yemen, and everyone of these hives of vermin. I think Trump would make it clear they have to clean up their mess, or we will clean it up for them. I don't think Trump would hesitate to win the war. I think you'd see the end of politically correct warfare with awards for courageous restraint. Sounds great, except, how do you propose we "clean it up"? considering that DC is practically a "company town" for ARAMCO, i would think that rather difficult. (Sleeping With The Devil discusses this problem at length)
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Post by Opti on Aug 12, 2015 10:41:00 GMT -5
Or brilliant if your goal is to hook conservatives. terrorism is the least costly form of warfare. that is one of the main reasons it is so hard to defeat. example: an IED costs between $30 and $300. we have billion dollar equipment deployed to defeat it. we seem to think money is the answer to everything. it isn't. edit: Trump is giving simple answers to complex questions, and that is quite gratifying. other than the fact that they are all wrong. We? I think even the US federal politics acknowledges money is not the answer. However, I think they get lazy and are used to spending their way out of things that annoy them instead of using other countries and diplomacy to solve apparently unsolveable problems. JMO.
Now if by we, you mean some crazy Americans, many "fiscially" responsible, I did it my own self types, I agree. It should be noted, it was Trump's Dad who laid the groundwork for Trump to even be this good and be in real estate at all, in NYC. Somehow I think would have played out different in Tarsnapple, Arkansas(made up place).
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:42:52 GMT -5
terrorism is the least costly form of warfare. that is one of the main reasons it is so hard to defeat. example: an IED costs between $30 and $300. we have billion dollar equipment deployed to defeat it. we seem to think money is the answer to everything. it isn't. edit: Trump is giving simple answers to complex questions, and that is quite gratifying. other than the fact that they are all wrong. We? I think even the US federal politics acknowledges money is not the answer. However, I think they get lazy and are used to spending their way out of things that annoy them instead of using other countries and diplomacy to solve apparently unsolveable problems. JMO.
Now if by we, you mean some crazy Americans, many "fiscially" responsible, I did it my own self types, I agree. It should be noted, it was Trump's Dad who laid the groundwork for Trump to even be this good and be in real estate at all, in NYC. Somehow I think would have played out different in Tarsnapple, Arkansas(made up place).
that is what happens when you are rich and powerful. you think that wealth and power will fix everything.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:44:26 GMT -5
incidentally, the latest poll shows Trump down 9% and Fiorina +8%. it might just be an aberration, or Trump's 15 might be up.
edit: if you are wondering what i am suggesting as an alternative to boycotting the oil that we have been spending 60 years securing, i would suggest constructively engaging with some of these countries in the manner of pre-Cold-War US. i would suggest not sending in the Army every time we have a disagreement with some crappy little ME nation. i would suggest supporting democratic elements in repressive societies. these options are not only less costly, but they are far more effective than what we generally do.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 10:45:21 GMT -5
The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. who? ISIS? Yes, ISIS. And a bunch of that money came as a result of money we gave them. And it also comes from the oil we buy. I think these countries, rather than be left alone to think they've got us by the balls, should be instructed that if they wish to retain access to our market for their product- they have to pay. Trump is not my guy- I think you all know that. But I do increasingly think about issues in terms of how President Trump would handle them. Would we be cutting off the coal industry at the knees- deliberately bankrupting an entire industry? Or would we be gradually shifting from coal, oil, and natural gas to safe, virtually unlimited nuclear power? Would we be sitting here with $19 trillion in fiscal operating debt and $200 trillion in unfunded liabilities-- or might we be explaining that, I'm sorry- but the money is gone. We're going to return the programs so their original intent- "old age insurance"- and that means means testing, and raising the retirement age one month per year for the next quarter century instead of bankrupting and collapsing the program so no one benefits? Would we have 77,000 pages of tax code, or would that be scrapped for Trump's tax plan? Would the EPA be allowed to destroy an entire region when one of its boondoggles to deal with pollution resulted in the concentration of, and subsequent release of run-off which would have been no threat if allowed to simply run off gradually over time as it once was? Would China devalue its currency- destroying the wealth of Americans including pension plans and retirement accounts with impunity? You gotta wonder if it isn't time for leadership that doesn't follow the predictable political patterns since 1989.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 10:50:18 GMT -5
The money. They're getting money from the islamic countries in the middle east. They're funded by the Saudis (Suni) and Iranians (Shia), Qatar, Syria, Libya, Yemen, and everyone of these hives of vermin. I think Trump would make it clear they have to clean up their mess, or we will clean it up for them. I don't think Trump would hesitate to win the war. I think you'd see the end of politically correct warfare with awards for courageous restraint. Sounds great, except, how do you propose we "clean it up"? Well, my plan is actually simpler than Trump's. My foreign policy would be the Mecca - Medina doctrine which says, "Congratulations! You've chosen Islam, the religion of peace. It seems, however, that some in your company are what you'd call not-so-peaceful. You have a year to reign it in. After that time, whenever anyone, anywhere in the world is harmed by a radical islamic extremist, a low yield thermonuclear warhead will be detonated over Mecca. The next target will be Medina. We will continue to prosecute a war of attrition against you until such time as you are completely annihilated, or we have every reasonable assurance that you have your extremist problem under control. And rest assured: it is YOUR problem."
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:50:33 GMT -5
ISIS is a different kind of beast. as of today, they control enough of their OWN resources to create revenue. they don't need anyone else, other than willing buyers, which they have. they also had a lot of leftover hardware from our escapades. thanks, Rummy.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 10:51:50 GMT -5
Sounds great, except, how do you propose we "clean it up"? Well, my plan is actually simpler than Trump's. My foreign policy would be the Mecca - Medina doctrine which says, "Congratulations! You've chosen Islam, the religion of peace. It seems, however, that some in your company are what you'd call not-so-peaceful. You have a year to reign it in. After that time, whenever anyone, anywhere in the world is harmed by a radical islamic extremist, a low yield thermonuclear warhead will be detonated over Mecca. The next target will be Medina. We will continue to prosecute a war of attrition against you until such time as you are completely annihilated, or we have every reasonable assurance that you have your extremist problem under control. And rest assured: it is YOUR problem." sounds like a good way to convert 15k miscreants into 1.5B righteous warriors, to me.
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 12, 2015 10:53:11 GMT -5
... a low yield thermonuclear warhead will be detonated over Mecca. ... Can't let Iran have a a nuke. Can't be trusted not to use it on a civilian target.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Aug 12, 2015 11:18:50 GMT -5
... a low yield thermonuclear warhead will be detonated over Mecca. ... Can't let Iran have a a nuke. Can't be trusted not to use it on a civilian target. We're the good guys. We don't throw the first punch. We don't go looking for a fight. And as long as WE safe, THEY are safe. They'll have a year to demonstrate they're in control of THEIR problem. And it should be THEIR problem. Not ours.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 12, 2015 11:23:30 GMT -5
Can't let Iran have a a nuke. Can't be trusted not to use it on a civilian target. We're the good guys. We don't throw the first punch. We don't go looking for a fight. And as long as WE safe, THEY are safe. They'll have a year to demonstrate they're in control of THEIR problem. And it should be THEIR problem. Not ours. we have been throwing the first punch since VietNam, Paul. time to get off the high horse.
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