djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2016 21:06:02 GMT -5
let's be clear about what we are talking about, here. are you making a case that the polls are not showing his support? if you are, how MUCH do you think they are off by? 5%? 10%? otherwise, you are arguing about future events, which is a very lonely position, ime. The polls are way off. Ridiculously off. Have you not been following the Monster Vote theory? yes. so, is way off more than 10%? if so, what % do you think the polls are off by?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 20, 2016 21:08:15 GMT -5
Apparently the monster voters don't have phone or internet so cannot participate in polls. I guess they will have to hope they have good enough IDs to vote.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 20, 2016 21:10:25 GMT -5
We are friends with a gay couple that has adopted a little girl. She plays with my daughter. They're fine as parents go, but it isn't normal and their daughter knows it. It's tough on her- both to understand, and to explain. I think gays adopting children ought to be an absolute last resort and I am fairly open in my opinion with even our friends. Some things you just have to agree to disagree upon. However, this is a problem that begins and ends with the elimination of private orphanages and private adoption in favor of massive state programs. "Anti-LGBT" is not unlike the cry of "RACISM"-- it's bogus. We can be perfectly tolerant and live and let live and yet have differences on policy. I happen to be against gay marriage, but it is because I am against the state institution of marriage- the regulation of which was first and foremost to stop interracial marriages. And while I acknowledge that so long as government is engaged in the marriage business, it must recognize any two consenting adults who wish to marry. Aaaand that being said, I am not for gun-to-the-head cakes, eminent domain for weddings, and other totalitarian authoritarian abuse of state power as we've previously discussed. Freedom of association, freedom of religion, and of conscience are paramount considerations, and the state not only has no compelling interest which supersedes them, but its only legitimate function is recognizing and upholding these rights. Still- as Milo aptly points out: you can't force a Christian to bake you a cake if you're dead. The border must be secured, immigration regulated, and a war waged against radical islam which defines victory as no known outpost of radical islamist thought or practice. How broad minded of you to be 'friends' with a gay couple whose child happens to be a playmate of your daughter.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 20, 2016 21:13:32 GMT -5
We are friends with a gay couple that has adopted a little girl. She plays with my daughter. They're fine as parents go, but it isn't normal and their daughter knows it. It's tough on her- both to understand, and to explain. I think gays adopting children ought to be an absolute last resort and I am fairly open in my opinion with even our friends. Some things you just have to agree to disagree upon. However, this is a problem that begins and ends with the elimination of private orphanages and private adoption in favor of massive state programs. "Anti-LGBT" is not unlike the cry of "RACISM"-- it's bogus. We can be perfectly tolerant and live and let live and yet have differences on policy. I happen to be against gay marriage, but it is because I am against the state institution of marriage- the regulation of which was first and foremost to stop interracial marriages. And while I acknowledge that so long as government is engaged in the marriage business, it must recognize any two consenting adults who wish to marry. Aaaand that being said, I am not for gun-to-the-head cakes, eminent domain for weddings, and other totalitarian authoritarian abuse of state power as we've previously discussed. Freedom of association, freedom of religion, and of conscience are paramount considerations, and the state not only has no compelling interest which supersedes them, but its only legitimate function is recognizing and upholding these rights. Still- as Milo aptly points out: you can't force a Christian to bake you a cake if you're dead. The border must be secured, immigration regulated, and a war waged against radical islam which defines victory as no known outpost of radical islamist thought or practice. If they're fine as parents, why should it be as a last resort? I know plenty of gay couples who adopted, and they're raising happy, healthy and well-adjusted kids.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 20, 2016 21:15:05 GMT -5
They're often BETTER parents. There's no 'Oh crap! I'm pregnant again!" These people moved heaven and earth to be parents.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 21:15:45 GMT -5
You can agree to disagree about which sports team is better.
If in a 'disagreement' one walks away with fewer rights, that isn't an agree to disagree situation.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 20, 2016 22:03:41 GMT -5
You can agree to disagree about which sports team is better. If in a 'disagreement' one walks away with fewer rights, that isn't an agree to disagree situation. Anything is an agree to disagree situation on a message board. Get over it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 22:09:59 GMT -5
'Get over' someone thinking it's equal to restrict your rights and then just chalk it up to failure to agree with you that you are worthy of rights... Yeah, I'm gonna go with no. But thanks.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 20, 2016 22:22:11 GMT -5
Knock yourself out. But if Paul is wise, he'll just ignore you.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 21, 2016 10:15:23 GMT -5
Gretta: What happened with the revolt on the floor today?
Newt: They didn't have the votes.
I love Newt's clarity.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 21, 2016 10:17:20 GMT -5
We are friends with a gay couple that has adopted a little girl. She plays with my daughter. They're fine as parents go, but it isn't normal and their daughter knows it. It's tough on her- both to understand, and to explain. I think gays adopting children ought to be an absolute last resort and I am fairly open in my opinion with even our friends. Some things you just have to agree to disagree upon. However, this is a problem that begins and ends with the elimination of private orphanages and private adoption in favor of massive state programs. "Anti-LGBT" is not unlike the cry of "RACISM"-- it's bogus. We can be perfectly tolerant and live and let live and yet have differences on policy. I happen to be against gay marriage, but it is because I am against the state institution of marriage- the regulation of which was first and foremost to stop interracial marriages. And while I acknowledge that so long as government is engaged in the marriage business, it must recognize any two consenting adults who wish to marry. Aaaand that being said, I am not for gun-to-the-head cakes, eminent domain for weddings, and other totalitarian authoritarian abuse of state power as we've previously discussed. Freedom of association, freedom of religion, and of conscience are paramount considerations, and the state not only has no compelling interest which supersedes them, but its only legitimate function is recognizing and upholding these rights. Still- as Milo aptly points out: you can't force a Christian to bake you a cake if you're dead. The border must be secured, immigration regulated, and a war waged against radical islam which defines victory as no known outpost of radical islamist thought or practice. If they're fine as parents, why should it be as a last resort? I know plenty of gay couples who adopted, and they're raising happy, healthy and well-adjusted kids. I don't support things based upon emotion, but principle. The data do not support gay parenting as equal to two parent, mother and father parents-- setting aside the obvious natural biological selection of this ideal.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 21, 2016 10:24:43 GMT -5
Perhaps if all of those "biological selection" parents, the mother and father, remained on the job, your fabulous gay friends wouldn't have had a child to adopt. Instead, that child is way better off while your ilk go on and on about how it's just not right.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 21, 2016 10:41:23 GMT -5
If they're fine as parents, why should it be as a last resort? I know plenty of gay couples who adopted, and they're raising happy, healthy and well-adjusted kids. I don't support things based upon emotion, but principle. The data do not support gay parenting as equal to two parent, mother and father parents-- setting aside the obvious natural biological selection of this ideal.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 21, 2016 10:58:15 GMT -5
If they're fine as parents, why should it be as a last resort? I know plenty of gay couples who adopted, and they're raising happy, healthy and well-adjusted kids. I don't support things based upon emotion, but principle. The data do not support gay parenting as equal to two parent, mother and father parents-- setting aside the obvious natural biological selection of this ideal. you're right. it produces slightly advantageous outcomes for kids. so, time to transgender, i guess?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 21, 2016 11:05:21 GMT -5
In an ideal world children would have a male and female parent who demonstrate and teach love and respect. But too often we have abusive parents. Kids are harmed and even killed by this. I'd take a single parent or gay parents over that. They are capable of raising a healthy child in a loving home.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 21, 2016 12:15:32 GMT -5
In an ideal world children would have a male and female parent who demonstrate and teach love and respect. But too often we have abusive parents. Kids are harmed and even killed by this. I'd take a single parent or gay parents over that. They are capable of raising a healthy child in a loving home. I also know gay couples that are raising great kids.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 21, 2016 13:16:59 GMT -5
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 21, 2016 13:24:09 GMT -5
My wife had a lesbian cousin, unfortunately deceased in her early 40's from colon cancer, that birthed two children. The cousin was a PhD history prof and her partner was a Law School Professor who has raised the two kids since early infancy. She has had a lengthy partnership with another lawyer. The older child is now attending a prestigious east coast school. The younger will be a HS senior this coming year. Both of these kids spoke eloquently at their grandfather's funeral earlier this year and are fine citizens.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Jul 21, 2016 14:02:31 GMT -5
IMHO it really does show how truly sad and convoluted the political system in this country has become when this scary man can get this close to the presidency. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he enacted concentration camps and firing squads (after all one of his staff already said Hillary should be put in front of one). And that he would have access to nuclear weapons shakes me to my core.
Oh and since he will have to find a way to make money off of the job order the Treasury to start making money which he then siphons into his off shore accounts.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 21, 2016 15:33:01 GMT -5
I'm not going to go into it here. I'm just not that interested in having that discussion- least of all on this thread. The point is that trying to turn ALL political policy opposition into "racistsexistbigothomophobe" is a weak position. There's plenty of principled space between putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to bake you a cake-- especially when you also don't have any problem letting people into the country who would murder gays for their lifestyle-- and carving out room for everyone. But that's not how the totalitarian left rolls. There's a certain sick glee the modern left gets from rubbing every kind of deviancy in the faces of devout Christians. It always seems to come as a great shock to the left that anyone disagrees with them, let alone the fact that we actually have the absolute right to- and that the only legitimate purpose of government is to uphold our rights.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 21, 2016 15:34:31 GMT -5
Yeah, well I'm not quite as nervous about Trump having the nuclear codes- especially having had personal experience with how that works and understanding no one man may launch a nuclear strike- as I am about Lying Crooked Hillary giving Iran the bomb.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Jul 21, 2016 15:43:04 GMT -5
Yeah, well I'm not quite as nervous about Trump having the nuclear codes- especially having had personal experience with how that works and understanding no one man may launch a nuclear strike- as I am about Lying Crooked Hillary giving Iran the bomb. Ah Paul I see you still have your shit colored Trump glasses on. Lying Crooked Hillary really? I find it adorable that you keep trying to convince yourself that isn't a liar and crooked to his core. Pot meet Kettle!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 21, 2016 15:48:21 GMT -5
I'm not going to go into it here. I'm just not that interested in having that discussion- least of all on this thread. The point is that trying to turn ALL political policy opposition into "racistsexistbigothomophobe" is a weak position. There's plenty of principled space between putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to bake you a cake-- especially when you also don't have any problem letting people into the country who would murder gays for their lifestyle-- and carving out room for everyone. But that's not how the totalitarian left rolls. There's a certain sick glee the modern left gets from rubbing every kind of deviancy in the faces of devout Christians. It always seems to come as a great shock to the left that anyone disagrees with them, let alone the fact that we actually have the absolute right to- and that the only legitimate purpose of government is to uphold our rights. So you throw out a lot of crap, then refuse to back it up. Understood.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 21, 2016 15:51:36 GMT -5
"I'm saying that there's plenty of data that supports gay parents as being unworthy. No, I won't provide the data. I'm not interested in having that discussion."
That about sums it up, Paul?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jul 21, 2016 15:57:46 GMT -5
I'm tired of the stereotyping Paul. It's not all left, right, liberal, conservative, Christen or not. On any given subject I could be called anyone of those. But I consider myself an intelligent, open minded person who will listen to anyone's view. When I realize they are only repeating information they heard without fact checking I don't respond. I figure they will only argue the little they have been fed. I've asked friends to prove something they've said. Their answer is for me to disprove it. They don't get it.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Jul 21, 2016 16:19:42 GMT -5
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 21, 2016 16:20:14 GMT -5
No, there's a certain glee that every true American gets when we know that all Americans are allowed to live in freedom, which means being free from being forced to live in the closet and pretending to be someone you aren't, or being prohibited from enjoying the right to be legally married and adopt children because you're gay or transgendered.
Freedom, baby. That's what it's all about. Tattoo the flag on your big beer belly, wear your white socks with sandals, and your tube tops with your muffin tops, dye your hair purple and marry the person you love despite what anyone thinks.
If that celebration of our freedoms offends certain people, it's their right to be offended, but it's not their right to impose their idea of what is deviant and what is upstanding on the rest of us - cause Freedom, baby.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 21, 2016 16:32:54 GMT -5
There are dozens of studies showing marked penalties for children in same-sex households. I've cited at least six here on YMAM. The recipe on the left is to jump on some trivial methodological oversight or refusal to factor out a relevant variable, declare the study "utterly flawed", and ignore the results. It's pointless to even debate the topic. I've also posted debunkings to at least two studies you cite above. They rely on subjective self-reporting and/or factor out every possible variable that might account for differences in outcome and then predictably fail to reject the null hypothesis. I must have spent at least 24 hours collectively typing out responses by now. Go look it up if you want a bone to chew.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 21, 2016 16:34:08 GMT -5
"I'm saying that there's plenty of data that supports gay parents as being unworthy. No, I won't provide the data. I'm not interested in having that discussion." That about sums it up, Paul? I don't blame him. We've had that discussion at least three times already. You can't be bothered to consider the data objectively or even to remember what was said, so why even bother.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 21, 2016 16:58:58 GMT -5
Yeah, well I'm not quite as nervous about Trump having the nuclear codes- especially having had personal experience with how that works and understanding no one man may launch a nuclear strike- as I am about Lying Crooked Hillary giving Iran the bomb. Ah Paul I see you still have your shit colored Trump glasses on. Lying Crooked Hillary really? I find it adorable that you keep trying to convince yourself that isn't a liar and crooked to his core. Pot meet Kettle! Let us concede that Trump is a liar, and an asshole- just like every other politician. Hell, maybe he's even a crook- I'd have no way of knowing. But he's a patriot and this election cycle, I think it is clearer than at any time since reconstruction: it is Americans vs. Democrats. Once upon a time you could be a Democrat and still want to kick the shit out of NAZIs and the Japs. If they had a do over on that, we'd have NAZI "refugees" moving into our neighborhoods.
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