TALK ME OUT OF THIS!

[steph08]

Have you started taking flying lessons?

Are your wife and kids even interested in going on trips with you as the pilot? (I would never - too many stories on the news about small planes going down with families in them).

Would you use it enough to take advantage? $18k plus $1200/year and 175/flying hour is a lot of money - would you use it the plane enough to make that money worth it versus just buying plane tickets when going on trips?

[TheHaitian]

You crazy?

You have twins girls! Keep your ass on the ground where it belongs!!!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Get back to work.  

[Deleted]

25K and the cost of fuel/maintenance on your own plane buys a LOT of commercial plane tickets!

[TheHaitian]

Jul 27, 2015 10:55:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

25K and the cost of fuel/maintenance on your own plane buys a LOT of commercial plane tickets!

It is like buying a vacation home and say : look at how much money I will save on hotel costs

[Blonde Granny]

Sheesh, you haven't given us any $ amounts needed to get your 1st license, then you'll need your instrument rating so you can terrify your wife and kids by trying to fly in a thunderstorm.

Your wife is right, keep your feet and your head clearly out of the clouds and down on the ground.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I don't fly in small airplanes.  I believe statistics will back me up that the odds of surviving a crash in a small airplane are nil.

One of my closest friends here in town owns a plane with her DH.  They fly everywhere -- he even does Angel Flights every week (early retirement).  They are bright, intelligent, careful people.

I still refuse to fly with them.

You'll need a pilot's license, many hours of flying, consistently good weather (commercial air craft can fly in weather that small airplanes can't even leave the hangar for), and enough need to travel regularly for the purchase to make sense.

JMHO.  YMMV.  

Now, seriously, get back to work.  

[TheHaitian]

If the money is just burning a hole in your pocket, I will take one for the team and gladly relieve you of such burden?

You want to mail a check or Wiring it to me would work too.

[hoops902]

::Plane is 18K (for 1/4 of it), plus you pay 100/month (covers insurance and storage) and 175/hr to fly (covers fuel, annual inspection, other maintenance)




Plane is worth about $25k/share.::

This is an easy YM decision.  Buy the share, then immediately sell it for the extra $7k it is worth.  If it is worth $25k why would they sell it to you for $18k?

[chen35]

You're crazy. Don't do it.

[Deleted]

I used to fly when I was a teenager, I had my written test passed and quite a few hours logged.  (You can get a lot of free hours when you're 17 and cute. )  But, I don't know if I'd want to fly my kids around in a small plane regularly.  There's a reason life insurance companies want to know if you're a pilot!

[yogiii]

Is your wife shooting this down because she wants to do the house stuff or because she doesn't want you flying?

In my early 20s I used to sky dive and I took some flying lessons.  Now with kids, I won't but I didn't think twice about it before and that's just me, not you.  If you're comfortable flying as a Dad, then maybe this good deal opportunity is the right one.  But I'd want to know why your wife is saying no first.  If she's uneasy about you flying, I'd pass on the plane.

[Deleted]

Yeah, John-John Kennedy learned to fly his own plane, too...and took his wife and SIL with him...

don't do it....'nuff said..

[Wisconsin Beth]

Would your wife actually fly with you, if you got your license? 
Would your wife permit you to fly the girls anywhere?

For me, you can talk all you want about the safety factors, etc.  But if my gut/emotions say "NO!", good luck getting that to change. 

[milee]

From what my various pilot buddies have told me, planes are very similar to boats - resale is tough.  I'm guessing that although this particular plane won't be available in a couple of years when you're ready, there will be some other screaming deal out there if you look.  Don't get caught up in the idea that this deal will be the only one.  When you're ready, there will be others.

And at the risk of being a downer, training to be a pilot was how we found out DH has some pretty serious (previously unknown) health issues, so for me this is a sad subject. First I was all worried because he's a huge impulse spender and it was a foregone conclusion that he'd just buy a plane on impulse one day. But then partway through the process of getting the training, he just stopped talking about flying any more and stopped going. I pieced together that it was just after some sort of mandatory health exam, which gave me a clue something was up. He still hasn't told me everything, but from what I'm guessing, it may be a good thing we have decent health insurance and life insurance.

Not that this will happen to you, but it is kind of a way to rain on the parade.

[justme]

Don't forget the costs of whatever airport you land in. Don't know how it works you store your plane somewhere till you fly back.

[hoops902]

::so, out of these primary reason (that account of 70-80% of accidents), the first 3 i'd never do, and the first half of #4 I'd never do. I anticipate my real "risk" would be about 2-3X driving a car on the highway per mile.::

Yeah, but in the same way you discount a bunch of things you aren't supposed to do in a plane, you should discount all the things that end in car fatalities that you also aren't supposed to do, which probably pushes it back up closer to 10x (i.e.  Some of those things which cause fatalities driving I assume you don't do as well...drinking and driving, massive speeding, no seatbelts, etc).  So while you can get your plane safety down to 2x3 times the average car fatality because you don't fly like a moron, if you also don't drive like a moron the car piece goes down as well (if you drive like a moron doing all the reckless things which lead to car fatalities then yes maybe flying safely isn't much worse than driving like an idiot).

That's not to say you shouldn't do it, I just think your logic of the safety is one-sided.

[TheHaitian]

Jul 27, 2015 11:19:42 GMT -5 milee said:

From what my various pilot buddies have told me, planes are very similar to boats - resale is tough.  I'm guessing that although this particular plane won't be available in a couple of years when you're ready, there will be some other screaming deal out there if you look.  Don't get caught up in the idea that this deal will be the only one.  When you're ready, there will be others.

And at the risk of being a downer, training to be a pilot was how we found out DH has some pretty serious (previously unknown) health issues, so for me this is a sad subject. First I was all worried because he's a huge impulse spender and it was a foregone conclusion that he'd just buy a plane on impulse one day. But then partway through the process of getting the training, he just stopped talking about flying any more and stopped going. I pieced together that it was just after some sort of mandatory health exam, which gave me a clue something was up. He still hasn't told me everything, but from what I'm guessing, it may be a good thing we have decent health insurance and life insurance.

Not that this will happen to you, but it is kind of a way to rain on the parade.

Wow... You either don't care about your husband dying or you are a saint.

Your husband has a known health issue and you are ok with him not sharing exactly what it is with you? Not knowing the details?

Wow! Much respect!

[whoami]

My husband is an airline pilot and has multiple ratings including a $6000 instructor glider rating he got a couple years ago and hasnt used because of the terms of his life insurance policy. I think he can start flying gliders this year and not have the insurance refuse to pay.   
If you think this is a way to cut down on commercial airline fares, you are kidding yourself. I fly all the time, first class and its still cheaper than what we spend on DHs hobby flying. 

You have no idea the money pit you are getting into.  

[milee]

Jul 27, 2015 11:24:04 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jul 27, 2015 11:19:42 GMT -5 milee said:

From what my various pilot buddies have told me, planes are very similar to boats - resale is tough.  I'm guessing that although this particular plane won't be available in a couple of years when you're ready, there will be some other screaming deal out there if you look.  Don't get caught up in the idea that this deal will be the only one.  When you're ready, there will be others.

And at the risk of being a downer, training to be a pilot was how we found out DH has some pretty serious (previously unknown) health issues, so for me this is a sad subject. First I was all worried because he's a huge impulse spender and it was a foregone conclusion that he'd just buy a plane on impulse one day. But then partway through the process of getting the training, he just stopped talking about flying any more and stopped going. I pieced together that it was just after some sort of mandatory health exam, which gave me a clue something was up. He still hasn't told me everything, but from what I'm guessing, it may be a good thing we have decent health insurance and life insurance.

Not that this will happen to you, but it is kind of a way to rain on the parade.

Wow... You either don't care about your husband dying or you are a saint.

Your husband has a known health issue and you are ok with him not sharing exactly what it is with you? Not knowing the details?

Wow! Much respect!

How exactly would you suggest I proceed?  Beat it out of him?  This is who he is.  When he is upset, scared, angry or any of those things, he internalizes and completely shuts down.  The more someone tries to force their way in, the more closed off he gets.  The only way I've found to respond that is effective is to be patient and supportive until he's willing and able to talk. 

It totally sucks and it's not my personality, but it's what works. 

I think he's starting to talk now mainly because we're going to have a pretty difficult year health wise with my oldest son's surgery coming up and anything that's up with DH will be on top of that, so he's realizing we need to figure out some things together. 

[TheHaitian]

Jul 27, 2015 11:28:58 GMT -5 milee said:

Jul 27, 2015 11:24:04 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Wow... You either don't care about your husband dying or you are a saint.

Your husband has a known health issue and you are ok with him not sharing exactly what it is with you? Not knowing the details?

Wow! Much respect!

How exactly would you suggest I proceed?  Beat it out of him?  This is who he is.  When he is upset, scared, angry or any of those things, he internalizes and completely shuts down.  The more someone tries to force their way in, the more closed off he gets.  The only way I've found to respond that is effective is to be patient and supportive until he's willing and able to talk. 

It totally sucks and it's not my personality, but it's what works. 

I think he's starting to talk now mainly because we're going to have a pretty difficult year health wise with my oldest son's surgery coming up and anything that's up with DH will be on top of that, so he's realizing we need to figure out some things together. 

That is why I said much respect because I know I wouldn't be able to just seat back and say: when you are ready honey, I am here!

Hell nah! Not knowing and imagining the worst would probably kill me before whatever my spouse is worried about would kill them.

I just wouldn't be able to do it and I know for certain my wife wouldn't be able to either. She would nag me into an early grave but darn it she would get it out of me.

Again, much respect!

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 27, 2015 11:27:16 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jul 27, 2015 11:16:30 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Would your wife actually fly with you, if you got your license? 
Would your wife permit you to fly the girls anywhere?

For me, you can talk all you want about the safety factors, etc.  But if my gut/emotions say "NO!", good luck getting that to change. 

She would and she would. I took her on a discovery flight a week ago with an instructor to guide me while i flew the plane

She was super nervous going in, but had a lot of fun and was taking tons of pictures and joking with the instructor at the end.

It would only make sense to get my license if the family would eventually go with me. I'd never be able to justify the time and cost of training if it was just for me to do sightseeing trips alone.

Ok.  I used to want get a flying license but as I've gotten older, the yen has really gone away. 

[MJ2.0]

so I guess saint.  I don't know how you do it. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 27, 2015 11:32:27 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Jul 27, 2015 11:28:58 GMT -5 milee said:

How exactly would you suggest I proceed?  Beat it out of him?  This is who he is.  When he is upset, scared, angry or any of those things, he internalizes and completely shuts down.  The more someone tries to force their way in, the more closed off he gets.  The only way I've found to respond that is effective is to be patient and supportive until he's willing and able to talk. 

It totally sucks and it's not my personality, but it's what works. 

I think he's starting to talk now mainly because we're going to have a pretty difficult year health wise with my oldest son's surgery coming up and anything that's up with DH will be on top of that, so he's realizing we need to figure out some things together. 

Oh Milee, i'm so sorry you're dealing with both of these right now!  Wishing you the best!

[milee]

Jul 27, 2015 11:32:47 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jul 27, 2015 11:28:58 GMT -5 milee said:

How exactly would you suggest I proceed?  Beat it out of him?  This is who he is.  When he is upset, scared, angry or any of those things, he internalizes and completely shuts down.  The more someone tries to force their way in, the more closed off he gets.  The only way I've found to respond that is effective is to be patient and supportive until he's willing and able to talk. 

It totally sucks and it's not my personality, but it's what works. 

I think he's starting to talk now mainly because we're going to have a pretty difficult year health wise with my oldest son's surgery coming up and anything that's up with DH will be on top of that, so he's realizing we need to figure out some things together. 

That is why I said much respect because I know I wouldn't be able to just seat back and say: when you are ready honey, I am here!

Hell nah! Not knowing and imagining the worst would probably kill me before whatever my spouse is worried about would kill them.

I just wouldn't be able to do it and I know for certain my wife wouldn't be able to either. She would nag me into an early grave but darn it she would get it out of me.

Again, much respect!

Meh, don't be too impressed, I think a lot of this is just that I'm getting old and tired. 

But back to flying and what a bad idea it would be for alwaysbeoptimizing to get a plane right now....

[HoneyBBQ]

Oh jeez. Um. Not sure I have any smoking guns for you.  Here's my random though process:

1. You can afford it. No question. But do you WANT to pay for it? What is a higher priority? House or hobbies? How is the balance elsewhere in your life?

2. Why is this a golden opportunity? Why now?

3. My H has his motorcycles, which, as you pointed out, is a 'dangerous' hobby. He had them before I was around and before his kids were around so I never put up the fight. I do insist that he not ride late at night nor in crappy weather - which around here limits it to the summer. Every single day there is a car vs motorcycle fatality here, so it does worry me. Small aircraft is something that has NEVER interested me. I have several friends with their pilot licenses and they have been doing it for years and years, so theoretically and anecdotally it seems safe, but in reality *I* would never get in a small craft with any of them. While my H can just pull off to the side of the road during a sudden storm, you do not get that opportunity in a small plane.  

4. I have my hobbies, too, but they are not as $$ nor as "dangerous."  Does your wife have hobbies? Are you monopolizing your shared resources?   Sounds like she wants the house done first.

5. Why not do the house first? And the garage with the extra income? Then go back to your airplane. While the 7k in savings might seem like a smoking gun, is it unreasonable to assume there won't be another partnership in the future you could purchase a part of? In the long run, a 7k savings is really not that much (over time). Will this delay your garage project? How much rental income are you losing if you delay a year?

6. How long have you wanted to become a pilot and do this? Is this a new hobby or a life long dream? I am a big fan of new hobbies (I just picked up triathlons this year). But I did 3 months of training and a race FIRST before I went out and bought my own wetsuit and road bike (and signed up for a longer race). Maybe you should get your license first and go through the hard work before you commit yourself to a piece of expensive equipment? 

 

[MJ2.0]

alwaysbeoptimizing, this is every part of wrong for too many reasons to list here (because I'm lazy).  At least putting work into your home is probably going to give you a good return when you sell - the plane will just cost you and you won't re-coup any money for the work you put into maintaining it. 

Plus you have kids.  No.... no..... just, no.  You can get in the flight hours and learn for fun, but no planes, mister!

[lexxy703]

Is this the new mid-life crisis thing to do?  I just had this same conversation with my brother.  Increase your life insurance as high as you can so when you die your wife can get the house done.  Don't you watch the news?  There was just that small plane crash where the grandparents burned to death in their plane.

[whoami]

And FYI, I texted DH and asked him how much to go from zero to instrument rating and he said $20K.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Maybe I missed it but are you licensed to fly? Are you sure you will pass a Class I physical?  There are things on the physical that might make you fail that you don't know about.

You need to know that you can fly before buying the plane. 

FWIW, flying commercially is very different than flying private planes.  I've spoken to a lot of people who fly and a good number have gotten airsick when they are flying themselves or on private planes.  They do okay on commercial planes because they are larger and probably have less anxiety (SOmeone else is responsible for keeping you alive) but small plane have them throwing up left and right.

Consider this before buying the plane...