Tell me not to do this

[whoisjohngalt]

OK, how blunt can I be?

[yogiii]

Jul 14, 2015 11:46:54 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

OK, how blunt can I be?

I'm going with ... very blunt

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 11:46:54 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

OK, how blunt can I be?

Holding back? You must not be feeling well today 

[shanendoah]

The dog in the picture is likely $900 while his sister is $2500 because he is not show quality. Even reputable breeders sometimes get dogs where the coloring isn't right, somethings off from breed standard in another way, etc. So those dogs are less expensive to buy.
C's grandmother bred Scottish Terriers. He grew up with one that had such a terrible temperament that his grandmother would not even sell it as a "pet quality" dog because she didn't want her kennel being associated with such a mean dog. (And this was a dog she bred, knew all of its life experiences, nothing had happened to it, it was just a dog with a not good temperament, it happens.)

I also say, at 70, don't trouble yourself with a shelter dog. But I would also say not to trouble yourself with a puppy. They are so much work.

I would consider checking with local Yorkie club or a Yorkie rescue (if Yorkie is what you want). Often, breeders will have adult dogs, or young dogs (but not puppies) that they need to find homes for. You might want to consider that.


And then, on the other side of things, because I have fostered with Old Dog Haven, and see situations like this all the time, since you are 70, and you are looking at a puppy of a breed that can live 15+ years, PLEASE make sure you have a plan for what happens to the dog should you become unable to care for it. So many of the dogs that ODH posts and helps with are dogs that belonged to elderly people who end up hospitalized or in a facility where they can't take their pet, and the family can't take the pet....
So please, have a plan.

[mollyanna58]

I volunteer with an organization that transports dogs from other states, mostly down South. 
Apparently this area does a better job of spaying, neutering, and generally not letting dogs run loose.  My cousin runs a small dog shelter in NM, and lately they have been sending dogs to CO.

I have also noticed the use of "rescued"; maybe some people thinks it sounds better than "I got him at the shelter".  It is accurate in that if someone did not adopt the dog, it most likely would have wound up in a landfill. 

As to Blonde Granny not wanting a shelter dog, well, that's a personal preference.  Purebreds need homes, too.

[grumpyhermit]

When someone says "rescued" I always assume they mean either from a shelter, or breed rescue.

The only phrasing I have heard that bugs me is when someone says they "adopted" a dog, only to find out they got it from a breeder. I suspect they may do it so as not to get the "why didn't you rescue" lecture, but they still need to stop. That's not adoption, its purchasing.

[mollyanna58]

then, on the other side of things, because I have fostered with Old Dog Haven, and see situations like this all the time, since you are 70, and you are looking at a puppy of a breed that can live 15+ years, PLEASE make sure you have a plan for what happens to the dog should you become unable to care for it. So many of the dogs that ODH posts and helps with are dogs that belonged to elderly people who end up hospitalized or in a facility where they can't take their pet, and the family can't take the pet....
So please, have a plan.

My parents just went into assisted living.  Their dog could theoretically live with them, if they could walk her.  They can't.  Dog now lives with me, and visits them.  Our shelter gets plenty of dogs for similar reasons.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

On the flipside people need to stop judging other's decisions about companion animals

But then that only leaves 99,999 things for YM to judges others on.

[grumpyhermit]

Jul 14, 2015 12:04:18 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:00:34 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

When someone says "rescued" I always assume they mean either from a shelter, or breed rescue.

The only phrasing I have heard that bugs me is when someone says they "adopted" a dog, only to find out they got it from a breeder. I suspect they may do it so as not to get the "why didn't you rescue" lecture, but they still need to stop. That's not adoption, its purchasing.

On the flipside people need to stop judging other's decisions about companion animals 

I agree, well to an extent. I still judge the hell out of people that buy animals from pet stores. I don't see many pet stores anymore (thankfully) but I have an almost visceral reaction to them when I happen across one.

My issue with the purchasing isn't that they purchased, its that they said they adopted. No, you didn't.

I admit, I have purchased from a breeder. I would probably not do that again, though depending on the breed I couldn't guarantee it. However, I would never claim that I adopted the animal either. When I had two dogs, and people asked, I would explain that one was adopted from breed rescue, and the other was acquired from a breeder. Similarly all my cats have been rescue/shelter. I will probably always go that route...but again, if I someday decide I want a specific breed, that could change. If people want to judge, let them.

[Deleted]

I love our rescue. But he definitely has greater needs than our purebread. Some of this will always be temperament, but in his case is mostly prior bad treatment. He just is not as predictable, can't handle chaos and I have to plan and protect differently with him.

It's unfair to suggest that rescued /shelter dogs are always the same as other dogs.

[Blonde Granny]

Shanendoah and Molly, I think your comments are part of the reason I'm hesitating. The one breeder we visited does have a female that is not going to have any more puppies and that certainly might be a good option.  I'll call and ask about her.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jul 14, 2015 11:00:04 GMT -5 @rockit said:

Jul 14, 2015 9:49:55 GMT -5 Blonde Granny said:

A shelter dog, I just can't do that.

What does that mean?


Yorkies are cute, but I think you would enjoy a white west highland terrier more 

My wife loves Westies... 

[mmhmm]

The question I'd ask myself is:  Do you really want to tie yourself down with a dog? That puppy is going to become a dog. Dogs need a lot of attention - walking, play/exercise, etc. If you suddenly decide you absolutely have to go to Timbuktu because it's been on your bucket list for far too long, you've got to consider the dog. Will it do well in a kennel, or pine away from loneliness? Then there are the vet trips, the dog food hauls, the poop scooping ... the list goes on.

I can't say much because I have three cats (two opportunists and one pedigreed nightmare). Cats, however, are more able to care for themselves for short periods of time and just aren't the time sinks dogs seem to be. Still, if I decide I need to go to Timbuktu, I've gotta figure out which kid is going to get stuck with the cats because I won't leave them in a kennel. They'd do horribly. They're far too spoiled. Besides, someone at the kennel would probably strangle The Chooch!

[mmhmm]

Jul 14, 2015 12:13:39 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:04:18 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

On the flipside people need to stop judging other's decisions about companion animals 

I agree, well to an extent. I still judge the hell out of people that buy animals from pet stores. I don't see many pet stores anymore (thankfully) but I have an almost visceral reaction to them when I happen across one.

My issue with the purchasing isn't that they purchased, its that they said they adopted. No, you didn't.

I admit, I have purchased from a breeder. I would probably not do that again, though depending on the breed I couldn't guarantee it. However, I would never claim that I adopted the animal either. When I had two dogs, and people asked, I would explain that one was adopted from breed rescue, and the other was acquired from a breeder. Similarly all my cats have been rescue/shelter. I will probably always go that route...but again, if I someday decide I want a specific breed, that could change. If people want to judge, let them.

Agree completely. The Chooch is from a breeder who is a friend of mine. I didn't pay near what others pay for this breeder's Siamese monsters. My other two are volunteers from the cold, cold world (one was my mother's). I've never had to go to a shelter for a cat. They always find me. I think there's an invisible sign in my front yard that can be read only by cats looking for a place to settle in. I do, however, always have a Siamese in residence. That's been true for as long as I can remember - even into my childhood. 

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 12:16:11 GMT -5 oped said:

I love our rescue. But he definitely has greater needs than our purebread. Some of this will always be temperament, but in his case is mostly prior bad treatment. He just is not as predictable, can't handle chaos and I have to plan and protect differently with him.

It's unfair to suggest that rescued /shelter dogs are always the same as other dogs.

Mine was better.   

I agree, adult shelter dogs can come with baggage and I probably wouldn't want one that hadn't been evaluated in a foster home, especially if I was going to have it around kids, but I think puppies are pretty safe.  I'm just leary of the shy withdrawn ones.

[shanendoah]

Blonde Granny - I don't want to discourage you from having a dog. My grandfather had a dog up until the last year or so of his life (when he really could not care for it anymore). The dog he had before that was one my aunt gave him, and he made her promise that she would take the dog (really, her son, my cousin, would take the dog) should anything happen to him. His Lady was a source of love and comfort and I am very glad he had her. I don't want to take that away from people.
I just think that when we reach a certain age, we do need to think about what will happen to the creatures we care for if something happens to us.
Your vet might actually be a good person to talk to about that, as I know a number of ODH referrals come from vets when families reach out to them.

[zibazinski]

Jul 14, 2015 12:25:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:13:39 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I agree, well to an extent. I still judge the hell out of people that buy animals from pet stores. I don't see many pet stores anymore (thankfully) but I have an almost visceral reaction to them when I happen across one.

My issue with the purchasing isn't that they purchased, its that they said they adopted. No, you didn't.

I admit, I have purchased from a breeder. I would probably not do that again, though depending on the breed I couldn't guarantee it. However, I would never claim that I adopted the animal either. When I had two dogs, and people asked, I would explain that one was adopted from breed rescue, and the other was acquired from a breeder. Similarly all my cats have been rescue/shelter. I will probably always go that route...but again, if I someday decide I want a specific breed, that could change. If people want to judge, let them.

Agree completely. The Chooch is from a breeder who is a friend of mine. I didn't pay near what others pay for this breeder's Siamese monsters. My other two are volunteers from the cold, cold world (one was my mother's). I've never had to go to a shelter for a cat. They always find me. I think there's an invisible sign in my front yard that can be read only by cats looking for a place to settle in. I do, however, always have a Siamese in residence. That's been true for as long as I can remember - even into my childhood. 

Oh, good, now I know where to unload our office cat.

[mmhmm]

Jul 14, 2015 12:32:53 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:25:45 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Agree completely. The Chooch is from a breeder who is a friend of mine. I didn't pay near what others pay for this breeder's Siamese monsters. My other two are volunteers from the cold, cold world (one was my mother's). I've never had to go to a shelter for a cat. They always find me. I think there's an invisible sign in my front yard that can be read only by cats looking for a place to settle in. I do, however, always have a Siamese in residence. That's been true for as long as I can remember - even into my childhood. 

Oh, good, now I know where to unload our office cat.

LOL! If it's not deaf, it's not going to like it here because ... The Chooch! 

[Deleted]

I bought a Sheltie from a breeder once.  In hindsight I think it was a puppy mill.    I went to look at some other pups she had and saw him all alone in a crate on her porch.  She said he was too small and not worth much and sold him to me for a couple hundred I think.  Funny thing is he actually turned out to be bigger than the breed ideal.  He was an awesome dog too.

I miss having a dog!

[mollyanna58]

Jul 14, 2015 12:35:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I bought a Sheltie from a breeder once.  In hindsight I think it was a puppy mill.    I went to look at some other pups she had and saw him all alone in a crate on her porch.  She said he was too small and not worth much and sold him to me for a couple hundred I think.  Funny thing is he actually turned out to be bigger than the breed ideal.  He was an awesome dog too.

I miss having a dog!

Well, you know where Petfinder is. 

Or you could consider fostering.  If you go on vacation, the shelter/rescue finds a temporary foster.  They pay for vet bills, and food.  I enjoy going to adoption events with my fosters or with dogs I transport from the kennel.  I get to talk to nice people about dogs.  They pull out their phones and show me pictures of their current and/or past dogs.  It's a nice way to spend a few hours, made better when I see a dog going to a good home. 

[Blonde Granny]

All the things you mention mmhmm have been talked about. The sad truth is I'm likely going to be alone within the next year and I can't imagine living in this house alone with no family close by. I fear the silence would drive me batty. I've spoken to one lady who lives here (she's 80) and she says she doesn't know what she would do without her dog....it's a reason to get up in the morning, get dressed and go for her 6 walks per day.

If all decisions were based on the age of someone, I dread to think about how lonely and sad a life would be. There is nothing wrong with doing some things just for the joy they bring. We've had 20 years of retirement, built the houses, lived on golf courses, lived on the water in Florida with our 36' sailboat in the back yard, full timed in a motor home, had winter homes and summer homes. We're settled now, and a little bit of excitement is sometimes just what you need.

I've called the lady with the older dog, and sent an email to the lady that has Cody and his sister Cassie to set an appt. to vist them. It's only money, it's only happiness and joy, and it's only a reason to get up in the morning besides going to a doctos appt.

PS: he doesn't know it, but our DIL wins the dogs if the they would still be here when both of us die. He gets everything else we have, might as well get the dogs too.

[happyhoix]

We always end up with strays or shelter animals. Got a Maine Coon from the Maine Coon rescue society - it was pure bred but the breeder was going to put her down because she was two years old and hadn't sold because she was smaller than the average MC and her front feet were pigeon toed.  I guess she couldn't be a show cat.  She's a fabulous cat, has this weird thing about wanting to rub her head in your wet hair.

If you wanted a specific breed, I would go for the breed specific adoption agencies. Usually they house the animals with volunteers who can tell you the characteristics of each one, whether they do good with cats or other dogs, if they like kids, etc.  If they have issues they'll let you know, because they want to find the animal a good home that suits them, so they aren't once again homeless.

On the Yorkies -  I don't know anything about those kinds of dogs, but I remember a few years back I saw a judge show where a breeder was selling puppies that were supposed to be yorkies, but this dog got very big so the owner had a DNA test done. They determined the dog wasn't a Yorkie at all. Some kind of mix of various terriers. Apparently the breeder was picking up small long haired puppies and passing them off as pure bred Yorkies!! So I would absolutely check out the breeder before forking over that kind of money.  

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 12:50:37 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:35:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I bought a Sheltie from a breeder once.  In hindsight I think it was a puppy mill.    I went to look at some other pups she had and saw him all alone in a crate on her porch.  She said he was too small and not worth much and sold him to me for a couple hundred I think.  Funny thing is he actually turned out to be bigger than the breed ideal.  He was an awesome dog too.

I miss having a dog!

Well, you know where Petfinder is. 

Or you could consider fostering.  If you go on vacation, the shelter/rescue finds a temporary foster.  They pay for vet bills, and food.  I enjoy going to adoption events with my fosters or with dogs I transport from the kennel.  I get to talk to nice people about dogs.  They pull out their phones and show me pictures of their current and/or past dogs.  It's a nice way to spend a few hours, made better when I see a dog going to a good home. 

I'm considering doing that for cats with the rescue I'm a member of but I have to wait for the bitch twins to depart this earth. They are rather territorial about MY house. Or rather, the house we pay for but they own.

I third (4th, 5th, 6th, whatever number we are on) the breed rescue adoptions. My sister and BIL get their dogs from a Lab rescue somewhere on the East coast, I forget which but it is a network of different groups and they have gotten their last couple from them. They also seem to go for the special needs, mostly blind ones. One of the 2 they have now is blind due to cataracts, same as one before. The other dog is just a giant .

[tskeeter]

Jul 14, 2015 9:12:44 GMT -5 The Captain said:

(you can get a furbaby at the shelter for much less, just saying...)

The adoption fees for a shelter dog may be less than buying from a breeder.  But, if our shelter dogs were any example, the first year vet bills to deal with the dog's health problems more than made up for any initial savings when we got the dogs.  YMMV.

[kittensaver]

When you buy, shelter pets die.

Seriously.

It's absolutely false that purebreds "never" come into the shelters. In a well-functioning shelter system, purebreds and recognizable cross-breeds are "set up" almost immediately with breed-specific rescues. Well-functioning shelter systems keep lists of a wide variety of approved rescue agencies and other approved "pullers" (including animal sanctuaries for farm animals and high-wolf-content dogs, specialized nurseries for unweaned kittens, etc etc) and when the "hold" period is up on the animal (hold times vary depending on shelter policy, but are there to give owners time to search for their lost animal), a smart shelter manager will call the rescue to come and get the animal. The more animals that can get promptly diverted out of the shelter system the better. So if you are looking for a pure bred or cross breed, check them out online or in your local or regional community through a breed rescue group.

It is also patently false that "all" or "most" animals who come into the shelter system have behavior problems, and that a puppy is a "better behavior bet." With an adult dog, you can see and know exactly what you're getting in to. Puppies (and kittens, for that matter) are a big unknown and need a LOT of handling, socializing and training. Well-functioning shelter systems can and do perform temperament testing on homeless pets - so do general and breed-specific rescues. And well-functioning shelter systems offer or refer adoptive families for obedience training. And a well-functioning shelter system will never release a sick animal for adoption. If the animal has known/tested problems or a disability, that is revealed to the adopter or the animal is sent to a rescue for further care or put down because it cannot be saved.

In part, it is the myths and the perpetuation of myths about shelter animals (they are diseased, they have behavior problems) that cause so many of them to die for no better reason than they got lost (or dumped once the weren't "cute" anymore) and the shelter puts them down for nothing except lack of space.

It is atrocious how we abuse and discard animals in this country. Yes there are "ethical" breeders out there, but frankly there are many more who the rest of the litter that they can't get $$ by selling. The adorable, pure-bred puppy sitting in the shelter? Dumped by an unethical, backyard breeder - I GUARANTEE IT. There is no reason to buy from a breeder while other perfectly good animals die.

<< kittensaver steps off her soapbox and puts on her flameproof suit >> 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

email to the lady that has Cody and his sister Cassie to set an appt. to vist them

When you go, check to see if the mother is around.  If possible both parents.   If the breeder won't let you see at least one parent then I would be hesitant to buy the pups.  You can tell a lot about a breeder and the pups by seeing the parents.

[dannylion]

Dogs are good.

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2015 12:50:37 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:35:20 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I bought a Sheltie from a breeder once.  In hindsight I think it was a puppy mill.    I went to look at some other pups she had and saw him all alone in a crate on her porch.  She said he was too small and not worth much and sold him to me for a couple hundred I think.  Funny thing is he actually turned out to be bigger than the breed ideal.  He was an awesome dog too.

I miss having a dog!

Well, you know where Petfinder is. 

Or you could consider fostering.  If you go on vacation, the shelter/rescue finds a temporary foster.  They pay for vet bills, and food.  I enjoy going to adoption events with my fosters or with dogs I transport from the kennel.  I get to talk to nice people about dogs.  They pull out their phones and show me pictures of their current and/or past dogs.  It's a nice way to spend a few hours, made better when I see a dog going to a good home. 

Yeah, I know.  I bounce around the pros and cons all the time but it seems right now my commitment level is limited to chicken life span.

[grumpyhermit]

In part, it is the myths and the perpetuation on myths about shelter animals (they are diseased, they have behavior problems) that cause so many of them to die for no better reason than they got lost (or dumped once the weren't "cute" anymore) and the shelter puts them down for nothing except lack of space.

I worked at a Humane Society in college. We had a guy bring in a 12 week old, pure bred Basset hound puppy. Reason? It wasn't house broken yet.

People are idiots.

[zibazinski]

Jul 14, 2015 12:34:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 14, 2015 12:32:53 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Oh, good, now I know where to unload our office cat.

LOL! If it's not deaf, it's not going to like it here because ... The Chooch! 

Dobbie can hold his own. . He isn't named Dobbie because he lacks a personality.