You think you want drama in your life...

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

For DH's adopted niece, so far it's not stopping.     She's lived with BIL and his wife since she was about 18 months old and was formally adopted around 3 (had to terminate biomom's rights) and she's a mess at 15 - behind in school, was stealing from everyone, running away and staying gone for days and has a crapton of diagnoses.  She was in 3-4 different residential places in about 6-7 months over the last school year.  As far as I know, she's not doing drugs and she's not drinking.  Rules for group homes/foster stuff are girls get put on BC so that's in place now.  I know the parents are trying to get her to understand that she's about to hit the point where if she screws up, the courts/state may very well treat her as an adult instead of a 15 year old. 

[cronewitch]

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

Not sure you can really remove them entirely. Some are harmed before the mothers even get pregnant, then born with drugs and alcohol in their systems. Even infants know when life is not calm and are messed up pretty young even if born healthy. My ISO has a half sister who had a baby at 14 while she was on drugs. She spent the first 10 months of his life moving him from her mom's to her boyfriend's and back and forth every few days. She kept leaving him with her mom and stepdad until at 10 months they refused unless she gave him to them for adoption. So they got him and put him into a stable home life. They couldn't take him out of the house for months or he freaked out. He turned into a brat with no self control and ADHD and spent his teen years in trouble a little. Dropped out of high school and got a GED then went to trade school and dropped out. Now he is married with children and works but we don't have anything to do with him. His mom is clean and sober now but she never grew up so sells candles for income and is mostly a housewife. I don't know of the boy could have been helped before 10 months old and ended up better but at 10 months was damaged already.

[zibazinski]

I do mean remove them entirely. I still remember the boy sleeping at breakfast because mom had him up all night at the jail bailing out her boyfriend. If moms are going to put boyfriends before their kids, they aren't interested in raising kids. How about a mom who says don't call me again because you're in jail and I don't need that drama in my or my kids lives? Shocking idea, isn't it?

[8 Bit WWBG]

That was quite an ordeal cawiau.  It is sad when folks don't think that they have any other options and stay with partners like that who drag them down.

I hope its better, and I hope you got to get back to business.

[Value Buy]

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

So this stuff does not occur on Country Club lane? 
It happens on both sides of the tracks.
It is just done a little more quietly down on Country Club lane.

[zibazinski]

True enough but those kids usually manage better once they get out of their parents clutches. Plus, friends are a better crowd. That's what saved me. I escaped to college and never looked back. I didn't get pregnant in high school to spite anyone or to get a free ride or for "someone to love me." If my surroundings has been full of crap friends as well as crap parents, who knows? I'd have given anything for boarding school

[MJ2.0]

Except they don't usually go to boarding school. If no one takes the kids, they grow up in the foster care or state care system. I'll bet these kids would rather be with their train wreck parents than being shuffled from home to home or growing up in a government orphanage.

[Lizard Queen]

I think it's both nature and nurture. Even if the nurture side is perfect, you've still got the nature side to deal with. I get to this conclusion from observing my 1st serious BF who was adopted, and having met his birth mother as well.

[zibazinski]

Jul 16, 2015 11:49:36 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Except they don't usually go to boarding school. If no one takes the kids, they grow up in the foster care or state care system. I'll bet these kids would rather be with their train wreck parents than being shuffled from home to home or growing up in a government orphanage.

Yes, boarding school would cost a lot. How much do we save as taxpayers not funding future criminals or baby mommas and dumping their useless "parents " off the dole? Once "parents" realize they either need to be parents or lose their meal ticket, it's a win win situation.

[toomuchreality]

[trimommy]

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

That is what the Canadian government thought about Aboriginal children and residential schools. Look at how well that turned out. 

[trimommy]

Jul 13, 2015 20:52:47 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Poverty is a symptom, not the root cause.  Poor impulse control is what I believe is the root cause.  The drugs, drinking, lack of education, multiple out of wedlock pregnancies, violence, poor job history, etc., can all be due to the inability to delay gratification and the inability to foresee consequences.

Systemic racism is the root cause. Drugs, drinking, lack of educations, out of wedlock pregnancies, violence, unemployment can all be traced to a society designed to discriminate and make it near-impossible to overcome inherited class issues.

And yes, I know we all know a few people who beat the odds, but a couple anecdotes do not equal scientific analysis. And I also know that endemic poverty also exists in white communities, so some of you will say that it obviously can't be racism. The truth is that 4.3 million black children live in poverty in America, compared to 4.1 million white children - even though there are 3x as many white children in the national population.

Just because you're rich, it doesn't mean you are racist. But you can't overlook those societal structures that have set you up for success in your life. I say this as a white (well, 1/4 Chinese but mostly white) woman.

[zibazinski]

Jul 16, 2015 16:32:23 GMT -5 trimommy said:

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

That is what the Canadian government thought about Aboriginal children and residential schools. Look at how well that turned out. 

No clue about Canada and aboriginals.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2015 16:32:23 GMT -5 trimommy said:

Jul 15, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's why I always said if we removed these kids from these situations, we can stop most shit in one generation.

That is what the Canadian government thought about Aboriginal children and residential schools. Look at how well that turned out. 

Yup. I think something similar was true in Australia as well.

[trimommy]

Jul 16, 2015 22:11:16 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jul 16, 2015 16:32:23 GMT -5 trimommy said:

That is what the Canadian government thought about Aboriginal children and residential schools. Look at how well that turned out. 

No clue about Canada and aboriginals.

It was essentially a cultural genocide with rampant physical and sexual abuse of children. That's what happens when one group of people thinks they have the moral authority to control another.

[zibazinski]

You involve my money, you involve my judging of your lifestyle and your morals. Don't want to be judged/controlled? Support yourself and your offspring.

[8 Bit WWBG]

I imagine different flavors of it happen on country club lane.  Some form of abuse takes place, but you get the added benefit of it becoming a media circus as two wealthy families lawyer up and the incident becomes a media circus.  Words like "affluenza" are thrown around.  People judge "the rich" and "what they get away with".

I imagine when zib mentioned "removing from these situations", it is less about the wealth of the families, and more about their values.  There are plenty of people whose morals are far healthier than their finances.