busymom
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Post by busymom on Jul 10, 2015 19:50:58 GMT -5
The NY Times does not allow people to buy their way onto the best seller list so that they can turn around and announce to the world that they are on the NY Times best seller list. I am glad that the NY Time does not prostitute their list. Too late! (See "Fifty Shades of Grey"...)
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 10, 2015 21:19:49 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff posted about "bulk" purchases. The fact they actually track who bought them and adjusts accordingly is to be applauded (thanks Tenn - post 21 and Ryan post 26).
That said, the NYT should probably make their algorithm a little more public.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jul 10, 2015 21:47:26 GMT -5
Maybe all the publicity will cause individual sales to skyrocket, resulting in a legitimate best seller.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 10, 2015 22:04:32 GMT -5
To me the bottom line is that there list is determine by them, they can call it a best seller or whatever, but they (NY Times) determine who is on there list.
The only thing I would object to , is if they don't disclose there criteria or disclose that they don't disclose there criteria. To me something called best seller would be the book that sold the most regardless of how those sales where made, but if NY times say they determine who the best seller's are by means other than just sales that is ok
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 11, 2015 8:10:44 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff posted about "bulk" purchases. The fact they actually track who bought them and adjusts accordingly is to be applauded (thanks Tenn - post 21 and Ryan post 26).
That said, the NYT should probably make their algorithm a little more public.
Just read thru the two posts you referenced. Eyes glazed over when first reading long post. But Ryan post 26 explains it pretty much staright forward without the "political overtones" added to it. Learn something new every day. Of course everyone has an agenda But the "best lists" still have absolutely no impact on my life whatsoever - except that now I know some people get worked up over them so they must impact others folks lives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 9:57:49 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff posted about "bulk" purchases. The fact they actually track who bought them and adjusts accordingly is to be applauded (thanks Tenn - post 21 and Ryan post 26).
That said, the NYT should probably make their algorithm a little more public.
So someone* here posted a topic and actually learned something from the responses and changed their view, good Lord that has to be a first . *Not Kent, but anyone
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 12, 2015 19:41:25 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff posted about "bulk" purchases. The fact they actually track who bought them and adjusts accordingly is to be applauded (thanks Tenn - post 21 and Ryan post 26).
That said, the NYT should probably make their algorithm a little more public.
So someone* here posted a topic and actually learned something from the responses and changed their view, good Lord that has to be a first . *Not Kent, but anyone i would say that it happens often. what is UNUSUAL is for someone to admit it.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 13, 2015 21:45:24 GMT -5
So someone* here posted a topic and actually learned something from the responses and changed their view, good Lord that has to be a first . *Not Kent, but anyone i would say that it happens often. what is UNUSUAL is for someone to admit it. DJ, I'll take that personal and would like to say thank you.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 13, 2015 21:54:07 GMT -5
Now that I've said thank you to DJ, let me mention what I just heard on Faux news (Megyn Kelly)
It seems Amazon, Barnes and Noble and one or two other book sellers found NO evidence of "bulk sales" related to the Ted Cruz book.
Hmmmm - kind of interesting only the NYT found "evidence" and the others didn't. According to Megyn, the NYT says if they were guilty of manipulating facts, why does Bill O'Reilly make the top ten list. On the surface, that makes sense but, to the best of my knowledge, Bill O'Reilly isn't running for office.
I may have caved in a bit earlier than I should have on my NYT rant - post#31.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2015 21:54:24 GMT -5
i would say that it happens often. what is UNUSUAL is for someone to admit it. DJ, I'll take that personal and would like to say thank you. you're welcome. and yes, i meant it that way.
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kent
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Post by kent on Jul 13, 2015 21:57:52 GMT -5
DJ, I'll take that personal and would like to say thank you. you're welcome. and yes, i meant it that way. I know you did and I appreciate it - we may not always agree but I think you're a heads up guy that does his research and provides valuable input.
I dying to see your response to my latest post.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2015 23:43:48 GMT -5
you're welcome. and yes, i meant it that way. I know you did and I appreciate it - we may not always agree but I think you're a heads up guy that does his research and provides valuable input.
I dying to see your response to my latest post.
why? i don't actually have an iron in this fire. i ONLY said that IF books were sold to very few sellers, that is kinda meaningless. i would like people to read books. if they are buying Ted's, bully for him. but i honestly don't care much either way for this argument. my reason is this: fame and worthiness are totally unrelated. i derived this idea from music. 90% of top 40 is utter crap. 90% of stuff that never makes it on the radio is utter crap, as well. crap is completely democratized on a popularity scale. there is a lot of really popular crap, and a lot of really unpopular crap- and in both cases, you have a lot to weed through to find stuff that is worth consuming if you want art or information. that is just how it is. some people think that if you are famous, that you are a great artist/politician/human. i think that most famous people are just like us. some of them are complete bastards. some of them are thick as bricks. some are brilliant and interesting. some are utterly provincial and boring. i am still waiting for Orly Taitz to go after Cruz. that will be a beautiful moment.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2015 8:37:00 GMT -5
Lots of good stuff posted about "bulk" purchases. The fact they actually track who bought them and adjusts accordingly is to be applauded (thanks Tenn - post 21 and Ryan post 26).
That said, the NYT should probably make their algorithm a little more public.
Now that I've said thank you to DJ, let me mention what I just heard on Faux news (Megyn Kelly)
It seems Amazon, Barnes and Noble and one or two other book sellers found NO evidence of "bulk sales" related to the Ted Cruz book.
Hmmmm - kind of interesting only the NYT found "evidence" and the others didn't. According to Megyn, the NYT says if they were guilty of manipulating facts, why does Bill O'Reilly make the top ten list. On the surface, that makes sense but, to the best of my knowledge, Bill O'Reilly isn't running for office.
I may have caved in a bit earlier than I should have on my NYT rant - post#31. What I read is that you agreed bulk sells should not be included. I think it is a different issue whether they were calculated using reasonable methods. A third issue would be motivation for manipulating numbers to get the results you want. I applauded the NYT for excluding bulk sells. I think it is healthy that their methods are being questioned. If it is shown they manipulated the numbers for political reasons, they should be held at fault.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 14:00:06 GMT -5
The NY Times does not allow people to buy their way onto the best seller list so that they can turn around and announce to the world that they are on the NY Times best seller list. I am glad that the NY Time does not prostitute their list. Doesn't allow "buying" onto the "best seller" list ? Do you mean paying the NYT for a position on the list, hence "prostituting the list", or were the books actually sold to a customer and should be on the list as the requisite qualifying number were sold to a customer. Maybe it should be called the "uniform standards list", as calling it the best seller list seems to be in error. As Archie the Dragon said, "Words mean something".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 14:04:09 GMT -5
Maybe all the publicity will cause individual sales to skyrocket, resulting in a legitimate best seller. Wouldn't "legitimate best seller" mean the most books sold ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 14:07:44 GMT -5
So someone* here posted a topic and actually learned something from the responses and changed their view, good Lord that has to be a first . *Not Kent, but anyone i would say that it happens often. what is UNUSUAL is for someone to admit it. So "best seller" doesn't mean an amount of books "sold" ?
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jul 15, 2015 14:37:21 GMT -5
Maybe all the publicity will cause individual sales to skyrocket, resulting in a legitimate best seller. Wouldn't "legitimate best seller" mean the most books sold ? If I understand correctly, the NYT decided that there were bulk purchases of the book by Cruz supporters to pump up sales figures. This is different that lots of individuals looking at a book and deciding to buy it to read or gift.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 15, 2015 15:14:19 GMT -5
Wouldn't "legitimate best seller" mean the most books sold ? If I understand correctly, the NYT decided that there were bulk purchases of the book by Cruz supporters to pump up sales figures. This is different that lots of individuals looking at a book and deciding to buy it to read or gift. Yes, as someone else pointed out, a bestseller would be the number of books being bought for someone to read vs the number of books being bought in bulk, by one person (or company) - in which case those 10,000 books might be sitting out in the lobby of their company as a free give away to any client or customer who wants to read them - or they might end up in the recycle bin.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 15, 2015 15:19:59 GMT -5
Now that I've said thank you to DJ, let me mention what I just heard on Faux news (Megyn Kelly)
It seems Amazon, Barnes and Noble and one or two other book sellers found NO evidence of "bulk sales" related to the Ted Cruz book.
Hmmmm - kind of interesting only the NYT found "evidence" and the others didn't. According to Megyn, the NYT says if they were guilty of manipulating facts, why does Bill O'Reilly make the top ten list. On the surface, that makes sense but, to the best of my knowledge, Bill O'Reilly isn't running for office.
I may have caved in a bit earlier than I should have on my NYT rant - post#31. NYT needs to clarify how they determine 'bulk' purchases. I don't know the book business, but possibly bulk purchase books are made through different sources than a retail book store. Kind of like how a hospital doesn't run to the CVS to get their drugs, they buy them direct. If they have a legitimate way to calculate this, they need to share it. If they can't track it legitimately, they shouldn't jiggle their top seller lists around with no basis in fact.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 15, 2015 15:30:45 GMT -5
Now that I've said thank you to DJ, let me mention what I just heard on Faux news (Megyn Kelly)
It seems Amazon, Barnes and Noble and one or two other book sellers found NO evidence of "bulk sales" related to the Ted Cruz book.
Hmmmm - kind of interesting only the NYT found "evidence" and the others didn't. According to Megyn, the NYT says if they were guilty of manipulating facts, why does Bill O'Reilly make the top ten list. On the surface, that makes sense but, to the best of my knowledge, Bill O'Reilly isn't running for office.
I may have caved in a bit earlier than I should have on my NYT rant - post#31. NYT needs to clarify how they determine 'bulk' purchases. I don't know the book business, but possibly bulk purchase books are made through different sources than a retail book store. If they have a legitimate way to calculate this, they need to share it. If they can't track it legitimately, they shouldn't jiggle their top seller lists around with no basis in fact. I think they keep it somewhat secret so publishers don't learn how to manipulate it. You know if the NYT published their algorithm every publisher would make sure to structure their sales to qualify.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 15, 2015 15:46:56 GMT -5
NYT needs to clarify how they determine 'bulk' purchases. I don't know the book business, but possibly bulk purchase books are made through different sources than a retail book store. If they have a legitimate way to calculate this, they need to share it. If they can't track it legitimately, they shouldn't jiggle their top seller lists around with no basis in fact. I think they keep it somewhat secret so publishers don't learn how to manipulate it. You know if the NYT published their algorithm every publisher would make sure to structure their sales to qualify. True, I hadn't thought about that. Everyone likes to slap that 'NYT Best seller" sticker on the cover of their books. So I guess we have to trust they aren't doing some hocus pocus on the numbers. Humm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 15:51:41 GMT -5
I think they keep it somewhat secret so publishers don't learn how to manipulate it. You know if the NYT published their algorithm every publisher would make sure to structure their sales to qualify. True, I hadn't thought about that. Everyone likes to slap that 'NYT Best seller" sticker on the cover of their books. So I guess we have to trust they aren't doing some hocus pocus on the numbers. Humm. You could just not pay attention to the sticker if you do not trust it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 15, 2015 16:09:52 GMT -5
Ok, am I the only one who's stuck on the fact that in a nation of 320 million people it only takes less than 11K copies sold to make the best seller's list?
I find that fact much more tragic than anything else discussed here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2015 16:58:21 GMT -5
Didn't old man Kennedy buy his son's books and the kid who later became president got some fancy award? Like a Pulitzer.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2015 17:15:28 GMT -5
CONGRESSMAN SMITH TOPS THE NYT BEST SELLERS LIST WITH BOOK EXPOSING THE DANGERS OF ENDING SUBSIDIES FOR CILANTRO FARMERSNew York Times Best Seller author Congressman Smith establishes himself as a leading candidate for President. The popularity of his new bestselling book shows his far reaching appeal.
Best seller because a political action committee run by his best buddy bought 15,000 copies which are now sitting in his garage
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 15, 2015 17:16:53 GMT -5
Ok, am I the only one who's stuck on the fact that in a nation of 320 million people it only takes less than 11K copies sold to make the best seller's list? I find that fact much more tragic than anything else discussed here. I have no idea if Kindle editions and audio CDs of the book are counted in grand total the NYT's book sales, but many folks do buy those two things instead of hard copy or paperback editions of books.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 15, 2015 19:48:38 GMT -5
i would say that it happens often. what is UNUSUAL is for someone to admit it. So "best seller" doesn't mean an amount of books "sold" ? i think everyone here is saying that best seller is meaningless if there is only one buyer.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 16, 2015 6:43:20 GMT -5
Didn't old man Kennedy buy his son's books and the kid who later became president got some fancy award? Like a Pulitzer. The Pulitzer prize is awarded by a jury, who judges the quality of the product, not how many copies sold (which is why I usually haven't heard of the books that win - not necessarily best sellers ) I have heard, though, that Kennedy Jr didn't in fact write his own book, that it was ghostwritten, and that is a different matter. Given that Kennedy Sr earned his fortune in a shady fashion during prohibition, it would not surprise me if he hired a writer to 'assist' his son in writing a book that would cast him in a heroic light. Kennedy Sr seems like the 'success at any cost' type of guy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2015 7:59:07 GMT -5
Rumor has it Jackie helped too
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 16, 2015 8:21:40 GMT -5
Ok, am I the only one who's stuck on the fact that in a nation of 320 million people it only takes less than 11K copies sold to make the best seller's list? I find that fact much more tragic than anything else discussed here. I have no idea if Kindle editions and audio CDs of the book are counted in grand total the NYT's book sales, but many folks do buy those two things instead of hard copy or paperback editions of books. Good point. I'd love to know the answer to that... ETA - found this: www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/2015-07-19/combined-print-and-e-book-nonfiction/list.htmlFrom the bottom of the page click on "Read a full explanation of our methodology": ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "... Rankings reflect sales reported by vendors offering a wide range of general interest titles. The sales venues for print books include independent book retailers; national, regional and local chains; online and multimedia entertainment retailers; supermarkets, university, gift and discount department stores; and newsstands. E-book rankings reflect sales from leading online vendors of e-books in a variety of popular e-reader formats. E book sales are presently included for all adult categories (fiction, non-fiction and advice) except for graphic novels, and all children's categories with the exception of picture books." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So it would appear electronic forms are included. Don't know about audio books but I can't see that jacking up the numbers a whole lot.
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