Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 16:37:08 GMT -5
The sex offender registry should not be used as punishment. Use it if it will do some good, and don't use it where it is pointless. No one needs to know that some guy got arrested for peeing in a park, or some girl was arrested for mooning her friends. I don't know what you know about it, but it is used to inform. It's been a long time since I've interned at the county prosecutors office, but the offenders are separated into 3 tiers - 1 being the lowest (relatively minor offense with little chance of repeating) and 3 being the highest (major offense with high chance of repeating). I believe the tier 3s have to notify the town they live in that they are a registered sex offender. Peeing in public or mooning can get you on the register. Neither has anything to do with sex or abuse. I remember when streaking was nothing but a harmless fad. Some teenager sending a nude selfie to boy or girl friend might have something to do with sex but nothing to do with abuse. Getting a nude photo of a classmate and keeping it might be wrong, but it is not anything close to symtomatic of being an abuser. Like I say, use it if it does some good, but don't use it to intimidate into pleading guilty to a crime or as punishment. My take for what its worth.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 5, 2015 16:37:10 GMT -5
My daughter told her daughter she wasn't doing something ladylike. My granddaughter responded by mooning her mom. If that were someplace else and someone else, instead of it being funny and both people laughing, it could have been a lifelong of punishment being on a sex offender register. No, it couldn't. Where do you get these ideas?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 5, 2015 16:37:38 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 16:38:46 GMT -5
And to reiterate - this was a college guy with an 8th grader. My son is in 8th grade and there are a few girls in his class that seriously do look college age. They dress and act 10X more mature than any of the boys in the class too. If one of them sent him a nude selfie and he kept it or sent it on to someone else, he could have to go on the sex offender register.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 17:24:30 GMT -5
We have something called youthful offender status. I don't know the ages or details, but eventually you can apply to have your record expunged. Obviously, it is for minor stuff . . . not non-statutory rape, assault, or murder. I think it is used a lot for burglary and shoplifting.
I would think this situation would fit, but I don't know if it applies. If he behaves himself, it should get expunged. But I'm also in the camp of thinking his real screw-up was hooking up with someone via an app. Crossing state lines depends on how close he is to the state line. There are plenty of towns where people work in one and live in the other.
Years ago I worked at a small private school. A parent came in outraged because her fourteen-year-old son (freshman) had sex with an eighteen-year-old (senior). She really, really wanted to press statutory rape charges but was talked out of it. It was definitely consensual, and her son really didn't want his mom to embarrass him like that.
The pendulum can swing both ways. Would you press statutory rape charges if the genders were reversed? Just curious.
ETA: It was the school's "business" because it happened in a car in the parking lot.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 5, 2015 17:28:02 GMT -5
My son is in 8th grade and there are a few girls in his class that seriously do look college age. They dress and act 10X more mature than any of the boys in the class too. If one of them sent him a nude selfie and he kept it or sent it on to someone else, he could have to go on the sex offender register. Because it's technically owning and distributing child pornography. The law hasn't caught up with technology yet, but in this case I don't think it should. Kids don't need to be sending each other nude pics of themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 17:45:48 GMT -5
Agreed. However I don't think they need to be labeled sex offenders for it either..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 17:47:31 GMT -5
My daughter does not try to dress revealing, but buying appropriate covering for her age range is challenging.
I was pleased with her choice if bathing suit.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 5, 2015 18:01:42 GMT -5
While I wasn't dressing how the girls on the right were, I definitely wasn't wearing what the girl on the left was either. And I was 14 in 2000.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 5, 2015 18:04:22 GMT -5
I knew a 21 year old who had a 13 year old girl living with him. Her parents knew and she was consenting but that doesn't make it right. Sometimes the young victims don't know they are victims because they don't see what they are missing growing up too soon. My friend's son lived with a female teacher with a 9 year old when he was in high school. He never dated girls his age ever, none of the high school things like proms because he was with an adult. He married her and had a son while still young so by 30 he could be a step father to a son in his 20s with his own 10 year old. He never had a first apartment or any young adult thing just moved into her house. She was his teacher in jr high so it may have started very young for him.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 5, 2015 18:04:23 GMT -5
I don't worry about the registered sex offenders, it's the no registered ones I worry about.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 5, 2015 18:14:46 GMT -5
My daughter told her daughter she wasn't doing something ladylike. My granddaughter responded by mooning her mom. If that were someplace else and someone else, instead of it being funny and both people laughing, it could have been a lifelong of punishment being on a sex offender register. I'm afraid I don't find that funny at all but I wasn't there.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 5, 2015 19:04:54 GMT -5
While I wasn't dressing how the girls on the right were, I definitely wasn't wearing what the girl on the left was either. And I was 14 in 2000. I was 18 in 2000 living in Southern California and while most girls weren't dressing like the girl on the left they sure as hell weren't dressing like the ones on the right. Here's an article about how teenagers in particular were acting and dressing at the U.S. Open of surfing: www.vice.com/read/ed-templetons-huntington-beachThings have changed a lot since I graduated in 2000 and I think a lot of it has to do with technology and advertising. There have always been teenagers who grew up quicker for a variety of reasons but some of the things I see and hear now I can't even wrap my head around.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 5, 2015 19:13:17 GMT -5
My daughter does not try to dress revealing, but buying appropriate covering for her age range is challenging. I was pleased with her choice if bathing suit. Careful. Some of those suits get holes in the knees quite easily.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 19:30:03 GMT -5
I meant to find a picture. its hard for her to find a suit that fits her age and well, endowment. This one is cute and appropriate. She has gotten tons of compliments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 19:31:57 GMT -5
This is actually a weird side conversation for this thread title. I guess it originated because I do see how its possible for a 14 year old to pass herself off as a 17 year old without it looking suspect.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 5, 2015 19:43:54 GMT -5
I meant to find a picture. its hard for her to find a suit that fits her age and well, endowment. This one is cute and appropriate. She has gotten tons of compliments.
It's cute. I love those old suits from the 40s and 50s. I have one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 21:05:01 GMT -5
The point about my granddaughter mooning her mom is that she thought it was funny and could easily do that to one of her friends with very different consequences. There are all kinds of 'no tolerance' laws that force stupid results that can ruin a life.
I was reading an article about 'yes means yes" or having to affirm specifically you want to have sex before having sex with someone. The legal professors who came up with the proposed law specifically stated part of the reason for it was to be able to use it as leverage when needed. I am sure it is the same with some harmless sex stuff. Have a case you can't really prove, threaten with the sex register list. Say some 17 year old kid accused of selling drugs and you find a nude picture of his 16 year old girlfriend on his phone.
Nothing is served by using the registry as punishment. And certainly not on victimless crimes, like peeing in public or mooning someone. And I am sure there are people on it for those crimes.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 5, 2015 21:14:19 GMT -5
The point about my granddaughter mooning her mom is that she thought it was funny and could easily do that to one of her friends with very different consequences. There are all kinds of 'no tolerance' laws that force stupid results that can ruin a life. I was reading an article about 'yes means yes" or having to affirm specifically you want to have sex before having sex with someone. The legal professors who came up with the proposed law specifically stated part of the reason for it was to be able to use it as leverage when needed. I am sure it is the same with some harmless sex stuff. Have a case you can't really prove, threaten with the sex register list. Say some 17 year old kid accused of selling drugs and you find a nude picture of his 16 year old girlfriend on his phone. Nothing is served by using the registry as punishment. And certainly not on victimless crimes, like peeing in public or mooning someone. And I am sure there are people on it for those crimes. I don't know where you're getting this notion that it's used for punishment - it isnt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 21:21:12 GMT -5
The point about my granddaughter mooning her mom is that she thought it was funny and could easily do that to one of her friends with very different consequences. There are all kinds of 'no tolerance' laws that force stupid results that can ruin a life. I was reading an article about 'yes means yes" or having to affirm specifically you want to have sex before having sex with someone. The legal professors who came up with the proposed law specifically stated part of the reason for it was to be able to use it as leverage when needed. I am sure it is the same with some harmless sex stuff. Have a case you can't really prove, threaten with the sex register list. Say some 17 year old kid accused of selling drugs and you find a nude picture of his 16 year old girlfriend on his phone. Nothing is served by using the registry as punishment. And certainly not on victimless crimes, like peeing in public or mooning someone. And I am sure there are people on it for those crimes. I don't know where you're getting this notion that it's used for punishment - it isnt. If someone pees in the park and is put on the list why is he a risk? How is he more of a risk then anyone else? What was the point of putting him on a sex offender list? It certainly isn't because others need to be informed about him. If it isn't punishment and it isn't to inform others that he is a risk, then why put him on the list? Same with a 16 year old girl who sends a nude photo of herself. She is not a risk to others any more then any other average high schooler. She just made a dumb choice. Why put her on a sex offender list if not to punish? Who needs to know that she sent a nudie to her boyfriend? No one thats who. Maybe Swamp can answer, but I imagine it is used as a threat by some prosecutors to get plea agreements on other crimes. It is seen as a punishment by those threatened with it, I would think.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 6, 2015 7:12:48 GMT -5
Maybe realizing that dumb things you do can have unintended consequences is another lesson parents can pass on. Even in college, the people that were going on to be professionals like lawyers and doctors were a lot more careful about what they did or didn't do. More so than interior design and art history majors. This was before cell phones captured anything and everything. I'd be a LOT more careful now if I were young again. Because it's all out there-forever.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 6, 2015 7:38:17 GMT -5
I don't know where you're getting this notion that it's used for punishment - it isnt. If someone pees in the park and is put on the list why is he a risk? How is he more of a risk then anyone else? What was the point of putting him on a sex offender list? It certainly isn't because others need to be informed about him. If it isn't punishment and it isn't to inform others that he is a risk, then why put him on the list? Same with a 16 year old girl who sends a nude photo of herself. She is not a risk to others any more then any other average high schooler. She just made a dumb choice. Why put her on a sex offender list if not to punish? Who needs to know that she sent a nudie to her boyfriend? No one thats who. Maybe Swamp can answer, but I imagine it is used as a threat by some prosecutors to get plea agreements on other crimes. It is seen as a punishment by those threatened with it, I would think. You don't know what you're talking about.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 6, 2015 9:22:31 GMT -5
I bet there is a lot more to the story. Who has to drive across state lines for sex? No one. What!!!! Sure people date people from other states. They have jobs in states other than where they live. Just because it is another state doesn't me it is far away. It is just a line on the map, sometimes it is a river, but usually a line on the map.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 6, 2015 9:25:53 GMT -5
Do you mean "plead guilty to X or you'll be put on the offender registry"? If a defendant truly doesn't think he or she is guilty, they shouldn't take a plea deal. Any minors who find themselves in this situation and whose parents can't afford an attorney will be appointed counsel, so they should be well aware of the potential consequences of their decision.
Taking away a prosecutor's ability to use potential penalties as a bargaining chip would pretty much eliminate the plea bargaining process. I'm not sure if that's the outcome you're seeking.
ETA -- and as far as the examples that keep being thrown around -- I'm not saying no one has ever been jailed/convicted for something that shouldn't have been a sexual offense, but that is certainly not the norm. The 16yos charged for child porn are the ones forwarding nudes of teens to other people or posting them publicly, not the ones who took a single picture of themselves and sent it to a significant other. The people convicted for "peeing in the park" are usually charged for not only peeing in the park, but then keeping their d*ck out and trying to show it to some kids. Just because there are some defendants who go to the media to argue about the unfairness of their sentence doesn't mean what they say is true or representative.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 6, 2015 9:53:53 GMT -5
I don't care if the 14 year old is the biggest slut on the planet. Or her parents were lax. She's still 14 years old. She can fake being mature and, yes, some 14 year olds are well developed and mature acting, but her brain isn't there. These laws are there for a reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 10:04:19 GMT -5
And some 19 year olds are naive and socially backward. And some 14 year olds are aggressive. Do I think it's right? No. Do I think all of the responsibility should fall to the male all of the times in all cases to make sure a girl is not lying and is giving constant ongoing consent..? Sorry, I don't.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 10:12:41 GMT -5
I think individual situations need to be judged individually. I don't think mandatory registration is appropriate.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 6, 2015 10:14:37 GMT -5
Gender aside, I'm not sure what legal framework could be put into place to absolve adults of crimes against children if the children were deemed aggressive, etc., that wouldn't have pretty awful consequences.
Those under the age of consent can't legally consent to sex. Doesn't matter if the other person is 1 day older or 20 years older. That means if you want to stay out of trouble, you should make sure not only that you have consent, but that you have it from someone empowered to give it. That's the responsibility of the adult in the situation, not the minor, and I'm not sure that should be changed.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 6, 2015 10:22:16 GMT -5
My girls are little still, but when they are a bit older I will introduce them to the list and the map. For the violent offences, it will be a lesson on how even some neighbors are bad; and for the minor offences, a lesson on the horrible consequences of doing something stupid.
My neighborhood has a Facebook page and people sometimes post license plates or rants about kids doing something rude or reckless. I will also use it as a tool that they should be on their best behavior else the cops may get involved- people are always watching, filming and publicly shaming. Heck it keeps me on my toes and I try not to do anything that could be seen as rude or inappropriate!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 6, 2015 10:23:20 GMT -5
Gender aside, I'm not sure what legal framework could be put into place to absolve adults of crimes against children if the children were deemed aggressive, etc., that wouldn't have pretty awful consequences. Those under the age of consent can't legally consent to sex. Doesn't matter if the other person is 1 day older or 20 years older. That means if you want to stay out of trouble, you should make sure not only that you have consent, but that you have it from someone empowered to give it. That's the responsibility of the adult in the situation, not the minor, and I'm not sure that should be changed. I don't agree that "socially awkward" adults should be absolved of crimes against aggressive minors, but I do feel that there should be some sort of repercussions against minors for "consenting" to participate in inappropriate activities with adults. Facebook has lots of minors who lied about their age so they could open an account. The dating app Tinder can pull info from your Facebook account to create a Tinder account. Knowing that, a 16-year-old girl can easily create a Tinder account and start trolling for guys that are 18-25. Her fake age would show and if she really looked like she could be 18, no one would know. She knew the legal consenting age is 18 but didn't care. Should that just be allowed?
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