SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Mar 12, 2011 12:08:10 GMT -5
Not to the person writing the checks, which in this case are the taxpayers... In case you did not know eddie, Teachers pay taxes too.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 10:10:37 GMT -5
Not to the person writing the checks, which in this case are the taxpayers... In case you did not know eddie, Teachers pay taxes too. No kidding? How about the payroll tax? Oh, that's right- you have your taxpayer funded pension, AND you get to opt out of SS.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 10:15:43 GMT -5
Like I keep saying, if I were a teacher- I'd keep my big trap shut. The more the public finds out about the sweet deal you all have to "work" 9 months out of the year, get paid twice what private sector workers who pay your salaries make, and have your own sweet taxpayer funded defined benefit pension plan complete with early retirement-- the worse it's going to get for you. I don't know if you noticed, but in NJ-- probably one of the bluest of the blue states, Chris Christie is wildly popular-- and he went toe to toe with a teacher, tore her a new one, and he did it to a cheering audience. You should all go back quietly under a rock someplace, sit down, shut up and keep whatever you can get away with keeping.
If you want to pick a fight, for once, I believe taxpayers are well prepared to have it-- and the golden rule is that the people with the gold make the rules. We've been, and still are remarkably tolerant of the current system. If you like it and want to keep it- just be a good little public employee and don't make a lot of noise. If you keep it up, you're going to find yourself exposed to private market forces like everyone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 10:23:16 GMT -5
I always paid FICA Paul... your idea that all teachers are exempt from payroll taxes is NOT TRUE... again...
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humok
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Post by humok on Mar 13, 2011 10:40:47 GMT -5
While reading through the above post I found it comical that everyone is griping about the teachers make too much and/or not enough but I only read one that touched on the fact that we give away the farm, so to speak, to foreign countries and govts and we can spend billions to be the police of the world and donate billions to the International monetary fund and others and no one seems to think that is the root of the problem.....Wake up and quit letting the govt scam you.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 13, 2011 13:11:17 GMT -5
Speaking from the California perspective, on the whole teacher salaries are not the problem, except when you get to the state university level. However, when you factor in performance versus those salaries, then it becomes a problem, since on average, the quality of the public school system is declining rapidly. This is not solely the fault of teachers, of course, the state departments of education and the school board administrations are probably more responsible than the teachers for the current pathetic state of public education. In California, we have a serious problem with the salaries of Law Enforcement, University Education and Corrections employees. For those who want, see this link where you can search the State employee salary records and see some truly disgraceful things, including highway patrol officers making $300,000+ per year, university athletics coaches making $2,000,000+ per year, and "administrators" (whatever that is), making $500,000+ per year at various public agencies. This is why we're broke... www.sacbee.com/statepay/That would be part of the reason eddie, lets not forget that we have the highest illegal alien population. Illegals cost us an estimated 10 to 13 billion per year. This plays right into the public school problems. We are spending a staggering amount to educate and accommodate the children of illegal aliens. I know this first hand. 90 percent of my students' parents are here illegally. We spend so much on these kids. 100% of my school's students are on free breakfast and lunch. We provide 100% of their school supplies (which I now have to purchase because the district is out of money) We spend tons on providing private therapy sessions, in house probation officers, special education services, private school tuition when we cant meet their special needs, including taxi service to and from the private school, all kinds of expensive services. I do not agree with raising property taxes in order to accommodate these kids if the parents are not themselves paying property taxes (which the vast majority are not) This a a major problem that most of CA is ignoring. You're 100% correct sweet, I was trying to stay on the topic but as all reasonable people know, illegal aliens are a massive burden and drag on our economy and on our society. I hope the open-borders crowd saw this part of your post: 90 percent of my students' parents are here illegally That's terrifying...
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 13, 2011 13:23:46 GMT -5
Would you please provide a link for this?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 15:17:22 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 13, 2011 15:49:07 GMT -5
--------------------------------------------------------- Took Hundreds Of Thousands In Government Farm Subsidies First Posted: 03/ 8/11 04:07 PM Updated: 03/ 8/11 04:07 PM Taxpayers Wisconsin, Wisconsin State Senate, Wisconsins Farm Subsidies, stumble WASHINGTON -- At least three of the Wisconsin state Senate Republicans currently demanding that public workers sacrifice benefits, wages and even collective bargaining rights for the sake of the budget have applied for and received hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal farm subsidies, a Huffington Post review of state and federal records shows. From 1995 through 2009, state Sens. Luther Olsen, Dale Schultz and Sheila Harsdorf all had stakes in farms that received between them more than $300,000 in taxpayer funds. Those federal appropriations had no direct impact on the state’s current budget woes, but the cash spent on those subsidies, which went to support a range of functions -- from soybean production to small hog operations -- could have been used elsewhere, perhaps even in Wisconsin. More than that, critics say, it muddles the notion, pushed by these lawmakers and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R), that only they are serious about reining in an overextended, overspent government. ------------------------------------------------------ I guess being a farmer in the US of A , is a better profession then being a teacher, and I guess they are entitled to these subsidies..though I don't ever remember buy any soy beans at the marker, do you steam or boil them, serve with a bit of butter , salt ,pepper?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 13, 2011 15:49:14 GMT -5
--------------------------------------------------------- Took Hundreds Of Thousands In Government Farm Subsidies First Posted: 03/ 8/11 04:07 PM Updated: 03/ 8/11 04:07 PM Taxpayers Wisconsin, Wisconsin State Senate, Wisconsins Farm Subsidies, stumble WASHINGTON -- At least three of the Wisconsin state Senate Republicans currently demanding that public workers sacrifice benefits, wages and even collective bargaining rights for the sake of the budget have applied for and received hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal farm subsidies, a Huffington Post review of state and federal records shows. From 1995 through 2009, state Sens. Luther Olsen, Dale Schultz and Sheila Harsdorf all had stakes in farms that received between them more than $300,000 in taxpayer funds. Those federal appropriations had no direct impact on the state’s current budget woes, but the cash spent on those subsidies, which went to support a range of functions -- from soybean production to small hog operations -- could have been used elsewhere, perhaps even in Wisconsin. More than that, critics say, it muddles the notion, pushed by these lawmakers and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R), that only they are serious about reining in an overextended, overspent government. ------------------------------------------------------ I guess being a farmer in the US of A , is a better profession then being a teacher, and I guess they are entitled to these subsidies..though I don't ever remember buy any soy beans at the marker, do you steam or boil them, serve with a bit of butter , salt ,pepper?
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 13, 2011 15:59:20 GMT -5
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 13, 2011 16:01:59 GMT -5
Soybeans can produce at least twice as much protein per acre as any other major vegetable or grain crop, 5 to 10 times more protein per acre than land set aside for grazing animals to make milk, and up to 15 times more protein per acre than land set aside for meat production.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 13, 2011 16:23:32 GMT -5
No and neither have you or anyone else.
I can't figure out whether some of you lack reading comprehension or just have no clue what a right is. I suspect it's a little of both.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 13, 2011 16:42:03 GMT -5
FWIW: Farm subsidy has been essentially graft funneling government money to wealthy farmers since at least the 1930's so it's no surprise that it's still going on. Anyone who's been anywhere near farm subsidies realizes that it has done nothing to help "poor farm families" ever. On the other hand, the Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc. area is the home of the socialist farm movement. What do you expect? I remember when Sam Donaldson admitted to getting subsidies for his sheep farm in New Mexico. What the hell was that about? Government throwing money about willy-nilly is the problem, not what particular interest group gets the benefit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 18:27:23 GMT -5
safe, i was unsure of which aspect of the quote he was asking for a source? I thought it was the subsidies portion, not the rights statement...
I would expect that government workers would be fine with cutting subsidies in order to balance the budget...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 13, 2011 18:38:16 GMT -5
was the comment I was addressing. As far as the GOP reps voting benefits for themselves, what can I say? As long as the government throws money around, do you actually think that the government employees [elected or civil service] won't get the biggest piece of the pie. If so, you haven't been paying attention.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 13, 2011 18:39:17 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anyone voting to deprive public employees of their "rights" (which, by the way, DO NOT include collective bargaining, cadillac health care plans or taxpayer funded pensions)?
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 13, 2011 18:59:35 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anyone voting to deprive public employees of their "rights" (which, by the way, DO NOT include collective bargaining, cadillac health care plans or taxpayer funded pensions)? Thank you - and for the record Federal public employees do not have collective bargaining rights and they contribute a lot to both their health care insurance and to their retirements
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Mar 13, 2011 22:11:13 GMT -5
In case you did not know eddie, Teachers pay taxes too. No kidding? How about the payroll tax? Oh, that's right- you have your taxpayer funded pension, AND you get to opt out of SS. Correct, I do not pay into SS, but they take a sizable amount of out my pay for my pension. Also, since I do not pay into SS, I will not receive SS when I retire. No contribution, no collection. Comprehend?
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Mar 13, 2011 22:22:52 GMT -5
Like I keep saying, if I were a teacher- I'd keep my big trap shut. The more the public finds out about the sweet deal you all have to "work" 9 months out of the year, get paid twice what private sector workers who pay your salaries make, and have your own sweet taxpayer funded defined benefit pension plan complete with early retirement-- the worse it's going to get for you. I don't know if you noticed, but in NJ-- probably one of the bluest of the blue states, Chris Christie is wildly popular-- and he went toe to toe with a teacher, tore her a new one, and he did it to a cheering audience. You should all go back quietly under a rock someplace, sit down, shut up and keep whatever you can get away with keeping. If you want to pick a fight, for once, I believe taxpayers are well prepared to have it-- and the golden rule is that the people with the gold make the rules. We've been, and still are remarkably tolerant of the current system. If you like it and want to keep it- just be a good little public employee and don't make a lot of noise. If you keep it up, you're going to find yourself exposed to private market forces like everyone else. You just don't get it. Yes, some of us teachers get 2 and a half months off in the summer, HOWEVER, we DO NOT GET PAID during that time!!! No work, no pay. Get it? And if teachers are getting paid twice what those in the private sector are, (which I doubt) then those who work in the private sector should organize and fight for better wages and benefits. We teachers do not make a lot of money, PERIOD! I am the ONLY teacher on my campus that does not take on a summer school job. I live an extremely frugal lifestyle so that I can save money each month in order to take the summers off. I am working an additional 2 nights per week in order to make ends meet. Lots of teachers I know have an extra job in order to survive. You are falling for the ridiculous rhetoric from the union busters, but it is all false.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 22:36:26 GMT -5
Just to remind again, the opt out of FICA is not the same everywhere... PA teachers pay FICA.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 22:39:43 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure he gets it.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Mar 13, 2011 22:53:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure he gets it. Nothing but right winged, union busting, rhetoric crap.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 23:37:12 GMT -5
Wait until Paul's kids get in school, he will be wondering where all the good teachers went and bitching about having to pay for private schools. Or will be in some foreign country paying for them to go to private schools. He wants only the good life and big money for himself, everybody else be damned. I have one kid in school already, and my only complaint is that I am forced to pay for a government run indoctrination center I don't use, AND an actual school. It's like having to buy a bottle of two bottles of sludge for every bottle of clean drinking water I buy. The government run monopoly gets my money whether I use it or not. If they don't, they send the people with guns to take my house, my property, and put me into prison. And people complain about Wal-Mart.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 23:44:09 GMT -5
I get it. I'm right. You're wrong. It really is just that simple. YOU might not, but TEACHERS do get paid quite a bit, and teachers (including YOU) get paid for the two months off in the summer. Your pay is ANNUALIZED and it is considered pay because you have a JOB WHEN YOU GET BACK. Nobody else gets two months off on the taxpayers and comes back to work. You get paid in job security-- 3 years to be "tenured" which essentially means, no matter what the counter-argument is, you can't be fired. OR, it costs more to fire you than it does to keep you on, so guess what they do with our money? In IL there's a convenient little website: www.illinoisloop.org/salary.htmland you can go there and put in any teacher's name and get their pay. It's that easy. Resources like this are popping up in many states, so we get it just fine. We see you. There's no hiding behind union / Democrat propaganda anymore. It's the end of an era, and the more you teachers and educrats keep the spotlight on it, the worse it's going to be for you. Thanks for making it easy.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 23:48:45 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 13, 2011 23:55:04 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 0:00:11 GMT -5
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Mar 14, 2011 0:03:27 GMT -5
I get it. I'm right. You're wrong. It really is just that simple. YOU might not, but TEACHERS do get paid quite a bit, and teachers (including YOU) get paid for the two months off in the summer. Your pay is ANNUALIZED and it is considered pay because you have a JOB WHEN YOU GET BACK. Nobody else gets two months off on the taxpayers and comes back to work. You get paid in job security-- 3 years to be "tenured" which essentially means, no matter what the counter-argument is, you can't be fired. OR, it costs more to fire you than it does to keep you on, so guess what they do with our money? In IL there's a convenient little website: www.illinoisloop.org/salary.htmland you can go there and put in any teacher's name and get their pay. It's that easy. Resources like this are popping up in many states, so we get it just fine. We see you. There's no hiding behind union / Democrat propaganda anymore. It's the end of an era, and the more you teachers and educrats keep the spotlight on it, the worse it's going to be for you. Thanks for making it easy. What I am certain of, is that you have NEVER been a teacher. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are regurgitating the ridiculous right winged talking points and you have no clue. Teachers do not get paid a lot, period. Not in any district. Only teachers who have been teaching for 25 to 30 years get paid over 80,000. That is not a lot considering they have worked at the same job for 30 years! We get paid for 9 and a half months of work. If we work summer school, we get paid for more weeks. If we do not work in the summer, we do not get paid. Many of the teachers who were hired on in the last 10 years, are on temporary contracts. That means that our contracts can just simply be "not renewed" the following year. I am one of those teachers. I just became tenured last year, yet, I am working on a temporary contract. That means that I can get pinked at anytime. I will not work this summer, and I will not get paid. There is NO GUARANTEE that I will have my job back in the fall. That is how it now works for many teachers.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Mar 14, 2011 0:17:38 GMT -5
SV- you lost the argument. I posted facts, and you have no response to them except to say that they are somehow union busting propaganda. That may in fact be true, but it isn't true merely because you say so. You have to back up the claim.
You want to use the anecdote of your own pay, but then you want to make broad arguments about the hours and pay of teachers generally.
The same job for 30 years isn't an accomplishment. It's like your earlier post about showing up to work early and leaving late. In the private sector, we call that "doing minimums". This is no different-- there's a big difference between 30 years experience and 1 year of experience repeated 30 times. Most of the teachers I know personally (since we can sometimes use anecdotes in this discussion, and sometimes not) fall in the latter category.
Stop- just stop- trying to say you don't get paid for the time off in the summer. Just quit it. You retain all of the benefits of your job during the summer, you're still employed during that time, and you have a job when you get back. We're smart enough to figure out that it's just math. If I make $100K in January, and no money February - December, I make $100K a year. I only work 1 month, and I only get paid for the month I work, but nobody is falling for the silly idea that I don't get paid-- especially when I retain all my benefits and have a job when I get back the following January. You get paid for all year- including the two months off.
There may be no guarantees for you this year- but the last few years have been the exception in a very long run. We'll see if the fight for OUR rights, the rights of the taxpayers, OUR seat at the negotiating table is sustained. Odds are pretty good you have a job for life. So, you can make it sound however you want, but you can't say on the one hand that you know teachers that have worked at the same job for 30 years (Who does that anymore?) and on the other there are no guarantees.
We see you.
And if we do things right- you're going to experience dramatic changes and a big shift away from the government run monopoly and towards market forces.
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